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The Dangers of a Cashless Society.
Comments
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Does have fee free limits on cash withdrawals in the States though unless you pay for Premium or actually use them as a bank.Rothko said:
And Monzo is the most reliable of the fintech banksAlgarveaddick said:
A few places here don't take that card, which is why I am a bit dubious.shine166 said:
Revolut are also goodAlgarveaddick said:
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.0 -
£200 in 30 days, which from experience in NYC would take some doing as card acceptance is pretty common across all sectors.Didn’t even get close in Tokyo which is a place where cash is king0
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Its funny how quickly shirty barmaids have gone from rolling their eyes when a card is produced to them rolling their eyes when you hand a tenner over.
There is space for both, what I really don't like is the charges, I completely accept the card machines have a cost however the moment the lady who runs my local told me what they take on every transaction I vowed to only ever use cash in there.
Places like Charlton, bars at large events, I get it. There would be a lot of piano playing on the tills going on and people pay phenomenal amounts of money for licences at events like BST and it seems to move queues a lot quicker
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But they will be paying fees and likely insurance too for transacting in cash too. Likely that not all cash transactions make it into the company books I suspect 🤔Carter said:Its funny how quickly shirty barmaids have gone from rolling their eyes when a card is produced to them rolling their eyes when you hand a tenner over.
There is space for both, what I really don't like is the charges, I completely accept the card machines have a cost however the moment the lady who runs my local told me what they take on every transaction I vowed to only ever use cash in there.
Places like Charlton, bars at large events, I get it. There would be a lot of piano playing on the tills going on and people pay phenomenal amounts of money for licences at events like BST and it seems to move queues a lot quicker0 -
Have said it before. They take the piss. I lose thousands of pounds a year to the card company. I have a sumup device which charges a lot less but I only use it in case I don't get signal or the whole of the network goes down for my official card machine.Carter said:Its funny how quickly shirty barmaids have gone from rolling their eyes when a card is produced to them rolling their eyes when you hand a tenner over.
There is space for both, what I really don't like is the charges, I completely accept the card machines have a cost however the moment the lady who runs my local told me what they take on every transaction I vowed to only ever use cash in there.
Places like Charlton, bars at large events, I get it. There would be a lot of piano playing on the tills going on and people pay phenomenal amounts of money for licences at events like BST and it seems to move queues a lot quicker
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Cash isn’t free for businesses to handle is it6
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Can you just pay cash and give the driver a tip of your own choice?Huskaris said:
Absolutely crazy. Was in Vegas a couple weeks back and the fact that tips on card machines in the back of a taxi came with a $3 charge and then when the prompt for a tip came up the minimum was 20%.... Absolute fucking joke.SporadicAddick said:Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.0 -
Monzo has not failed me so far: Europe, USA and Peru. I would recommend it.Rothko said:
And Monzo is the most reliable of the fintech banksAlgarveaddick said:
A few places here don't take that card, which is why I am a bit dubious.shine166 said:
Revolut are also goodAlgarveaddick said:
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.0 -
@shine166 am I right in thinking Revolut are not a UK licensed bank, therefore your money is not protected by the financial services scheme?shine166 said:
Revolut are also goodAlgarveaddick said:
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.1 -
Revolut are a fucking abysmal organisation2
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You are right. They have been trying to get a UK banking licence for several years, and failing each time. As the FT points out at regular intervals, with some insights into what isn't right there. And nobody ever sues the FT...MrOneLung said:
@shine166 am I right in thinking Revolut are not a UK licensed bank, therefore your money is not protected by the financial services scheme?shine166 said:
Revolut are also goodAlgarveaddick said:
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.0 -
I don't know why it isn't, I get that there is the time cost of taking cash to a bank and any associated expenses with that for fuel and parking not to mention Robocop for protection, what I was getting at, whilst I assumed there was a charge for using X, Y or Z providers card machine I didnt expect it to be free but the disproportionate amount they charge per transaction surprised me to the point I won't use my card there again. She's a good landlady and margins are skinny enough for leaseholders in that game.Rothko said:Cash isn’t free for businesses to handle is it2 -
All those you’ve listed incur costs, plus the processing costs of moving the cash around the system costs billions.
as for card fees, I agree they are expensive, but on par with cash, and thankfully still regulated thanks to being in the EU. They are a real joke in the rest of the world0 -
The margins for cash not going through the books are even greater if that is the game!Carter said:
I don't know why it isn't, I get that there is the time cost of taking cash to a bank and any associated expenses with that for fuel and parking not to mention Robocop for protection, what I was getting at, whilst I assumed there was a charge for using X, Y or Z providers card machine I didnt expect it to be free but the disproportionate amount they charge per transaction surprised me to the point I won't use my card there again. She's a good landlady and margins are skinny enough for leaseholders in that game.Rothko said:Cash isn’t free for businesses to handle is itI of course have no knowledge of this scenario but am suspicious of any business that restricts card transactions given it’s how the majority of customers expect to pay these days and few other fees paid on the business account for most modest sized businesses.0 -
Me too, I am not advocating one or the other. I agree with anyone who has the hump places won't take cash which is still legal tender however I use my card far more often than I use cash.valleynick66 said:
The margins for cash not going through the books are even greater if that is the game!Carter said:
I don't know why it isn't, I get that there is the time cost of taking cash to a bank and any associated expenses with that for fuel and parking not to mention Robocop for protection, what I was getting at, whilst I assumed there was a charge for using X, Y or Z providers card machine I didnt expect it to be free but the disproportionate amount they charge per transaction surprised me to the point I won't use my card there again. She's a good landlady and margins are skinny enough for leaseholders in that game.Rothko said:Cash isn’t free for businesses to handle is itI of course have no knowledge of this scenario but am suspicious of any business that restricts card transactions given it’s how the majority of customers expect to pay these days and few other fees paid on the business account for most modest sized businesses.
The sole example I have of me being militant is following a conversation with the lady who runs my local and her telling me the amount the machine providers take on each transaction, wasn't so bad when cash was the king however now if someone buys something for a pound she let's them pay by card and its scandalous what they take.
She has nothing to gain from cash apart from not paying the disproportionately high fees. And I agree with her. I'd have zero problem of places putting signs up advising people as much either4 -
@Carter how much did she say "they" charge?
My understanding is that Visa and Mastercard take about 1.5% of the transaction value. Then she has to pay something to the "acquirer" who provides her terminal. I think its usually a fixed monthly fee.
I can find out exactly the answer locally, since I work with a company in in retail events for whom Visa is the anchor sponsor, and when I heard the story from the card company POV it didn't sound so much to bear, but I can't remember the details and of course there may be different prices in the UK.
Mind you I think the card companies could do with the competition. They are getting worried here, because as well as the pay by phone number thing I mentioned, there are QR codes generated on the bank apps, or even instant payment via bank account on apps. A guy came round last night to buy something off me I was selling on the local version of eBay. I made him an espresso while he tapped in my bank account details on his app. I kid you not, my phone app pinged the account credit notice before the coffee was fully poured.0 -
Anybody use Wise ?0
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The card companies are sort of getting competition, in the UK it’ll be via Open Banking payment, but cards do a job at a certain price point, and interchange (fees charged by visa and Mastercard) aren’t a problem in the UK, it’s capped, but the Payment service providers don’t make money on terminals themselves, so they get it back on fees as that element isn’t capped.
i work in payments, sadly I know this shit2 -
In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!0
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@Athletico Charlton I’ve been to Vietnam 5 times since May and it’s SO frustrating, especially coming from China where I literally don’t have to touch cash, ever and it’s an absolute pain in the arse finding an ATM that takes my card.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!
I’m going again in February straight after I’m back from England, is it possible to exchange beforehand in London?0 - Sponsored links:
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Nothing worse than getting your dong out when there's loads of people watching.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!12 -
There's a basic reason for this. Restaurants/bars in America pay their staff next to nothing. That's how the base price of meals is kept low (but not as low as it used to be of course). The waitress you refer to will have to put her tips on her tax return to the IRS. Worse, the IRS checks the restaurant's turnover, divides that by the number of staff, assumes each member of staff gets the tip level she asked for and taxes them on it if there is a discrepancy from what is put on the tax return.O-Randy-Hunt said:
That's merica for ya. They love a tip. My mate just got back from new york and said everyone of them pretty much demanded a tip. The restaurant he went too gave him his bill of $110 and the waitress wrote $20 in the tip box of the receipt.Huskaris said:
Absolutely crazy. Was in Vegas a couple weeks back and the fact that tips on card machines in the back of a taxi came with a $3 charge and then when the prompt for a tip came up the minimum was 20%.... Absolute fucking joke.SporadicAddick said:Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.
So, if you don't tip, not only does your waitress effectively not get paid, she also has to pay tax on money she hasn't received. This is why American restaurant/bar staff hate undertipping Brits.
Edited to add: @Huskaris the same goes for your Vegas cab driver.3 -
On a similar note, we went to Albania and they too wouldn’t take cash.MrWalker said:
Nothing worse than getting your dong out when there's loads of people watching.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!
Having to constantly get money from machines seemed to cost me a arm and a lek4 -
See, I got cash out in Seoul and it felt like I had wonR0TW said:
On a similar note, we went to Albania and they too wouldn’t take cash.MrWalker said:
Nothing worse than getting your dong out when there's loads of people watching.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!
Having to constantly get money from machines seemed to cost me a arm and a lek2 -
In Poland I had a zloty fun getting cash out.MrOneLung said:
See, I got cash out in Seoul and it felt like I had wonR0TW said:
On a similar note, we went to Albania and they too wouldn’t take cash.MrWalker said:
Nothing worse than getting your dong out when there's loads of people watching.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!
Having to constantly get money from machines seemed to cost me a arm and a lek4 -
When i went to Brazil, it was the cool thing to pay in cash. They like to keep it Real.2
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Good question, does anyone know where we can get Vietnamese Dong in London?Stu_of_Kunming said:
@Athletico Charlton I’ve been to Vietnam 5 times since May and it’s SO frustrating, especially coming from China where I literally don’t have to touch cash, ever and it’s an absolute pain in the arse finding an ATM that takes my card.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!
I’m going again in February straight after I’m back from England, is it possible to exchange beforehand in London?
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Tinder?Huskaris said:
Good question, does anyone know where we can get Vietnamese Dong in London?Stu_of_Kunming said:
@Athletico Charlton I’ve been to Vietnam 5 times since May and it’s SO frustrating, especially coming from China where I literally don’t have to touch cash, ever and it’s an absolute pain in the arse finding an ATM that takes my card.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!
I’m going again in February straight after I’m back from England, is it possible to exchange beforehand in London?10 -
The land of the free (plus 20% tip!)cafcfan said:
There's a basic reason for this. Restaurants/bars in America pay their staff next to nothing. That's how the base price of meals is kept low (but not as low as it used to be of course). The waitress you refer to will have to put her tips on her tax return to the IRS. Worse, the IRS checks the restaurant's turnover, divides that by the number of staff, assumes each member of staff gets the tip level she asked for and taxes them on it if there is a discrepancy from what is put on the tax return.O-Randy-Hunt said:
That's merica for ya. They love a tip. My mate just got back from new york and said everyone of them pretty much demanded a tip. The restaurant he went too gave him his bill of $110 and the waitress wrote $20 in the tip box of the receipt.Huskaris said:
Absolutely crazy. Was in Vegas a couple weeks back and the fact that tips on card machines in the back of a taxi came with a $3 charge and then when the prompt for a tip came up the minimum was 20%.... Absolute fucking joke.SporadicAddick said:Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.
So, if you don't tip, not only does your waitress effectively not get paid, she also has to pay tax on money she hasn't received. This is why American restaurant/bar staff hate undertipping Brits.
Edited to add: @Huskaris the same goes for your Vegas cab driver.1 -
Soho?Huskaris said:
Good question, does anyone know where we can get Vietnamese Dong in London?Stu_of_Kunming said:
@Athletico Charlton I’ve been to Vietnam 5 times since May and it’s SO frustrating, especially coming from China where I literally don’t have to touch cash, ever and it’s an absolute pain in the arse finding an ATM that takes my card.Athletico Charlton said:In Vietnam this summer everyone wanted cash. The issue with that was I was travelling with a family of 4 and the machine would only let me withdraw £90 a time. As cheap as it is there that doesn't get you that far when paying for hotels in cash etc so I would have to stand there and make 4-5 withdrawals at a time (the £90 was per withdrawal but actual withdrawals were seemingly unlimited!). It made it very obvious to anyone around I was fully loaded with cash when I left the machine!
I’m going again in February straight after I’m back from England, is it possible to exchange beforehand in London?0
