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Sangaard did more damage to us than Duchaletet.
WellingWill
Posts: 26
Duchaletet brought our club to it's knees for sure. However whilst he was sustaining losses with the football club there was a chance that he could be persuaded to sell.That incentive has now gone.He owns the fixed assets with a steady income from them and no losses or fan fury to contend with. Sangaard seperating the football club from it's fixed assets was catastrophic for our club although we didn't realise the significance at the time.
It is hard to believe that just 17 yrs ago we were a Premier league club with plans approved to increase the capacity to 40000. How times change.
It is hard to believe that just 17 yrs ago we were a Premier league club with plans approved to increase the capacity to 40000. How times change.
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Comments
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It weren't Sandgaard who seperated the Club from the assets, it was Southall and RD54
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2024 getting off to a fantastic start.8
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Finally someone who really gets our situation.WellingWill said:Duchaletet brought our club to it's knees for sure. However whilst he was sustaining losses with the football club there was a chance that he could be persuaded to sell.That incentive has now gone.He owns the fixed assets with a steady income from them and no losses or fan fury to contend with. Sangaard seperating the football club from it's fixed assets was catastrophic for our club although we didn't realise the significance at the time.
It is hard to believe that just 17 yrs ago we were a Premier league club with plans approved to increase the capacity to 40000. How times change.30 -
Anyone who thinks that losing ownership of The Valley and Sparrows Lane is not a catastrophe is sadly deluded l'm afraid.We now have the dead hand of Duchaletet hanging over us for who knows how long.3
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WellingWill said:Anyone who thinks that losing ownership of The Valley and Sparrows Lane is not a catastrophe is sadly deluded l'm afraid.We now have the dead hand of Duchaletet hanging over us for who knows how long.
As true as that might be, it wasn't Sandgaard. Club and ground were already separated by then. Southall and his spivs did that.19 -
Sandgaard was part of the Duchatelet problem, as were ESI.4
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Whether it was Sangaard, ESI, or whoever, the fact remains that we are now a club that does not own it's ground or training ground.To me that is a big.problem.6
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Apart from the fact it is total bollox. As @Gribbo stated above, the separation of the club & the ground was done by ESI.SantaClaus said:
Finally someone who really gets our situation.WellingWill said:Duchaletet brought our club to it's knees for sure. However whilst he was sustaining losses with the football club there was a chance that he could be persuaded to sell.That incentive has now gone.He owns the fixed assets with a steady income from them and no losses or fan fury to contend with. Sangaard seperating the football club from it's fixed assets was catastrophic for our club although we didn't realise the significance at the time.
It is hard to believe that just 17 yrs ago we were a Premier league club with plans approved to increase the capacity to 40000. How times change.7 -
Yes, but the title of your thread says that Sandgaard was worse than Duchatalet.WellingWill said:Whether it was Sangaard, ESI, or whoever, the fact remains that we are now a club that does not own it's ground or training ground.To me that is a big.problem.
If you are going to start an arguement at least get your facts straight. I see you only joined here in 2022. You might want to reprise yourself of our recent history before starting threads you seem to know nothing about.10 -
golfaddick said:
Yes, but the title of your thread says that Sandgaard was worse than Duchatalet.WellingWill said:Whether it was Sangaard, ESI, or whoever, the fact remains that we are now a club that does not own it's ground or training ground.To me that is a big.problem.
If you are going to start an arguement at least get your facts straight. I see you only joined here in 2022. You might want to reprise yourself of our recent history before starting threads you seem to know nothing about.
I have followed this club for probably longer than you so don't be such an arsehole.golfaddick said:
Yes, but the title of your thread says that Sandgaard was worse than Duchatalet.WellingWill said:Whether it was Sangaard, ESI, or whoever, the fact remains that we are now a club that does not own it's ground or training ground.To me that is a big.problem.
If you are going to start an arguement at least get your facts straight. I see you only joined here in 2022. You might want to reprise yourself of our recent history before starting threads you seem to know nothing about.31 -
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I’d point out that Dutchatalet happily separated the club and The Valley / Sparrows Lane, to criminals, for the sum of £1.
Ranking our previous three owners would be like one of those kids competitions where everyone gets a prize for being equally useless.
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And TS paid the same people1.5m for the club.SOTF said:I’d point out that Dutchatalet happily separated the club and The Valley / Sparrows Lane, to criminals, for the sum of £1.
Ranking our previous three owners would be like one of those kids competitions where everyone gets a prize for being equally useless.
Pointless ranking the owners as they all did considerable damage to our club.0 -
We haven’t had good ownership since about 2006.0
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Uh-oh, WellingWill’s doing his own research again
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If he did research, there wouldn't be a massive typo in the subject lineGarrymanilow said:Uh-oh, WellingWill’s doing his own research again3 -
I don't think you even have to think about it. Of course Roland did more damage and is still doing so. I have to admit that I am gobsmacked that anybody would see it differently.7
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RD was certainly capable of putting together a better squad than anything we've had since, but there was damage done elsewhere, obviously.
Southall was worse as all he did was steal from us, give money to his mates and buy copious amounts of snacks.
Sandgaard whilst well intentioned was absolutely clueless with anything football and put us in the worst shape we've been on the pitch for a while.
This new lot. Jury's out, but I think they at least know what they are trying to do with the footballing side. But obvs it's not going that well at the moment.
But nice to chat xxx3 -
Regardless of the length of time you’ve supported the club, the premise of your post is that the biggest issue facing us is the separation of ownership of the club and stadium and that therefore Duchatelet was less awful than Sandgaard.WellingWill said:golfaddick said:
Yes, but the title of your thread says that Sandgaard was worse than Duchatalet.WellingWill said:Whether it was Sangaard, ESI, or whoever, the fact remains that we are now a club that does not own it's ground or training ground.To me that is a big.problem.
If you are going to start an arguement at least get your facts straight. I see you only joined here in 2022. You might want to reprise yourself of our recent history before starting threads you seem to know nothing about.
I have followed this club for probably longer than you so don't be such an arsehole.golfaddick said:
Yes, but the title of your thread says that Sandgaard was worse than Duchatalet.WellingWill said:Whether it was Sangaard, ESI, or whoever, the fact remains that we are now a club that does not own it's ground or training ground.To me that is a big.problem.
If you are going to start an arguement at least get your facts straight. I see you only joined here in 2022. You might want to reprise yourself of our recent history before starting threads you seem to know nothing about.1 -
More shocking is the amount of people who agree with this poster!MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think you even have to think about it. Of course Roland did more damage and is still doing so. I have to admit that I am gobsmacked that anybody would see it differently.2 -
Close the thread...
...🤷♂️10 -
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I see @WellingWill's knowledge of Charlton is right up there with his knowledge of vaccines and climate change...8
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It's a series of poor ownerships and mismanagement that has brought us here. Sandgaard and Duchatelet have both contributed to this, but I believe both did what they thought was right in the beginning and both spent a lot of money.Friend Or Defoe said:
More shocking is the amount of people who agree with this poster!MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think you even have to think about it. Of course Roland did more damage and is still doing so. I have to admit that I am gobsmacked that anybody would see it differently.
It was the debacle in the middle of those who caused the most amount of damage, Matt Southall, Tahnoon Nimer, Paul Elliott and Chris Farnell.2 -
One day someone might even write about these episodes of Charlton Athletics history.Giving us an insight and all future owners of football clubs on How Not to Ruin a Club.
How is that book coming on?0 -
No he didn't!
When ESI bought the Club the separation occured and they were contractually obligated to purchase the assets by a set date, but were never in any position to.
When TS bought them out, he renegotiated the lease removing that commitment as he wasn't going to pay RD what ESI had agreed. Some may argue he should have done, but no one else was offering to.
We might have been better, or worse off, had he not bought the Club then, but that we'll never know and it's RD's asking price that's the most damaging aspect of the separation of assets problem, for which we have ESI to thank.
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That commitment was never in the ESI lease, which is a public document.swordfish said:No he didn't!
When ESI bought the Club the separation occured and they were contractually obligated to purchase the assets by a set date, but were never in any position to.
When TS bought them out, he renegotiated the lease removing that commitment as he wasn't going to pay RD what ESI had agreed. Some may argue he should have done, but no one else was offering to.
We might have been better, or worse, off had he not bought the Club then, but that we'll never know and it's RD's asking price that's the most damaging aspect of the separation of assets problem, for which we have ESI to thank.
There is a separate private agreement for the purchase of the club containing additional payments for promotion to the Premier League and which presumably includes a freehold price.
However, I believe it’s a time limited option rather than an obligation. Other views of it are available.
Some people seem to base their assumptions on things that Southall said regarding the ground. I don’t think he even understood the deal and he is certainly not a reliable source.6 -
I stand corrected. Apologies.Airman Brown said:
That commitment was never in the ESI lease.swordfish said:No he didn't!
When ESI bought the Club the separation occured and they were contractually obligated to purchase the assets by a set date, but were never in any position to.
When TS bought them out, he renegotiated the lease removing that commitment as he wasn't going to pay RD what ESI had agreed. Some may argue he should have done, but no one else was offering to.
We might have been better, or worse, off had he not bought the Club then, but that we'll never know and it's RD's asking price that's the most damaging aspect of the separation of assets problem, for which we have ESI to thank.
Edit - Perhaps I should have concluded my first post after the first three words 😉1 -
I understand the temptation to rank the owners of the last ten years, although as the courts eventually exposed the Spivs belong on the same list.The attempts to rewrite Duchatelet’s history are bizarre. Quite apart from anything else, the triumvirate of Peeters, Luzon and Fraeye and everything that went with them should tell you that, even before we get to Katrien and Driesen.
He is principally responsible for where we are now, including as the enabler of ESI, Sandgaard and the latest shower.
Anyone who argues that Charlton fans were the problem needs to consider the trail of wreckage he has left in his wake across Europe.52 -
Airman Brown said:I understand the temptation to rank the owners of the last ten years, although as the courts eventually exposed the Spivs belong on the same list.The attempts to rewrite Duchatelet’s history are bizarre. Quite apart from anything else, the triumvirate of Peeters, Luzon and Fraeye and everything that went with them should tell you that, even before we get to Katrien and Driesen.
He is principally responsible for where we are now, including as the enabler of ESI, Sandgaard and the latest shower.
Anyone who argues that Charlton fans were the problem needs to consider the trail of wreckage he has left in his wake across Europe.
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Nope it all comes back to Duchatelet.PopIcon said:
It's a series of poor ownerships and mismanagement that has brought us here. Sandgaard and Duchatelet have both contributed to this, but I believe both did what they thought was right in the beginning and both spent a lot of money.Friend Or Defoe said:
More shocking is the amount of people who agree with this poster!MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think you even have to think about it. Of course Roland did more damage and is still doing so. I have to admit that I am gobsmacked that anybody would see it differently.
It was the debacle in the middle of those who caused the most amount of damage, Matt Southall, Tahnoon Nimer, Paul Elliott and Chris Farnell.2 -
PopIcon said:
For me it starts with allowing Dowie to spend over his budget then doing the same with Pardew, but this was all a long time ago now.
It's a series of poor ownerships and mismanagement that has brought us here. Sandgaard and Duchatelet have both contributed to this, but I believe both did what they thought was right in the beginning and both spent a lot of money.Friend Or Defoe said:
More shocking is the amount of people who agree with this poster!MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think you even have to think about it. Of course Roland did more damage and is still doing so. I have to admit that I am gobsmacked that anybody would see it differently.
It was the debacle in the middle of those who caused the most amount of damage, Matt Southall, Tahnoon Nimer, Paul Elliott and Chris Farnell.5
