Electric Cars

ShootersHillGuru said:

colthe3rd said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Of course most of my journeys like most people are local so no big deal if I decided to get an EV. However I’m based in West Yorkshire so for family and other reasons I return to SE London on a reasonably regular basis. If my EV gave me 200 miles it wouldn’t get me there. Another full charge wouldn’t get me home. Might sound a bit daft but that alone puts me in two minds. 

I did a road trip in a Renault Zoe at Christmas 2022, went from south London to Manchester and then Liverpool and then back. The range of those is only about 170 at motorway speeds and in the cold. Never had an issue with a stop off at a service station for a quick break, grab a coffee, came back and I'd enough charge to get me to through the next leg. I've got a bigger EV now with a much longer range so it would be even easier, I think Tesla's charge from about 20% to 80% in around 30 minutes using on of their superchargers, depending on the model that's around 180 miles in the time it takes to stop off for a quick break and a drink.

Obviously really long distances for EVs at the moment are a slight issue as it will add some time to a journey but if you're traveling the length of the country you're probably stopping for a break anyway so the additional time then is minimal.

Not to detract from the excellent information in your post but I never stop for a coffee or a break when driving Leeds to London. Having to do so would really irritate me. Also when I get to London on my regular visits to visit my father in law I couldn’t charge my EV at his house. Having to drive to somewhere and spend the time doing so would also irritate me. Sounds like I’m just creating problems where there are none but at this point an EV is not for me. 

It definitely does cause a hassle if you wouldn't ordinarily stop as it does add a fair bit of journey time on. You would be able to charge at the house as they can be charged with a standard 3 point plug but it depends how long you stay for. They charge slowly and wouldn't do much damage if you were only there a few hours

I'm of the same view as ShootersHillGuru regarding not rushing to be an early adopter of EVs. I regularly stop at the Oxfords services just off the M40 where they have ~15 Tesla EV charging points and invariably they are all in use with other cars queuing to use them. I would find that a real pain on a long journey. We have also quite frequently had to make 300 mile round trips in a day from where we live in the Cotswolds over the Brecon Beacons to the West Coast of Wales to visit my father-in-law and don't recall seeing that many opportunities for charging on that particular route.

Frankly until there is a decent car with the ability to go 400+ miles between charges I can't see me opting for an EV. I am however at that stage of looking at alternatives to my 9 year old Range Rover, the first diesel vehicle I have ever owned (seemed like a good idea at the time!). I am thinking of at least a hybrid, but certainly has to take unleaded fuel. I tend to buy new cars and keep them 8-10 years. However, rather than buying a new car, I am wondering if it might make more sense to starting leasing cars for say a 3 year term and then that gives me the opportunity to switch over to an EV at some point in the next 10 years as and when both the charging infrastructure and EV battery technology improves. 

The cost of electric vehicles still seems pretty extortionate and I'm curious as to how much the batteries degrade if you buy second hand. It does seem to help if you can access a contract.

ShootersHillGuru said:

follett said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

colthe3rd said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Of course most of my journeys like most people are local so no big deal if I decided to get an EV. However I’m based in West Yorkshire so for family and other reasons I return to SE London on a reasonably regular basis. If my EV gave me 200 miles it wouldn’t get me there. Another full charge wouldn’t get me home. Might sound a bit daft but that alone puts me in two minds. 

I did a road trip in a Renault Zoe at Christmas 2022, went from south London to Manchester and then Liverpool and then back. The range of those is only about 170 at motorway speeds and in the cold. Never had an issue with a stop off at a service station for a quick break, grab a coffee, came back and I'd enough charge to get me to through the next leg. I've got a bigger EV now with a much longer range so it would be even easier, I think Tesla's charge from about 20% to 80% in around 30 minutes using on of their superchargers, depending on the model that's around 180 miles in the time it takes to stop off for a quick break and a drink.

Obviously really long distances for EVs at the moment are a slight issue as it will add some time to a journey but if you're traveling the length of the country you're probably stopping for a break anyway so the additional time then is minimal.

Not to detract from the excellent information in your post but I never stop for a coffee or a break when driving Leeds to London. Having to do so would really irritate me. Also when I get to London on my regular visits to visit my father in law I couldn’t charge my EV at his house. Having to drive to somewhere and spend the time doing so would also irritate me. Sounds like I’m just creating problems where there are none but at this point an EV is not for me. 

It definitely does cause a hassle if you wouldn't ordinarily stop as it does add a fair bit of journey time on. You would be able to charge at the house as they can be charged with a standard 3 point plug but it depends how long you stay for. They charge slowly and wouldn't do much damage if you were only there a few hours

Another issue. A standard three pin plug with an extension lead would work but it would need to cross the pavement to do so therefore needing my constant attention and in a road where parking outside is not usually possible. For most day to day stuff an EV would be absolutely fine but it’s in my opinion it’s wrong to say that having one is problem free and certainly so in my circumstances. Perfectly possible to manage but compared to what I currently have it’s a hassle. 

There are quite a few in my street in London, and all of the lampposts have been adapted for charging. Some people charge theirs from their houses and have a cable duct or mat that protects the cable. 

follett said:

robinofottershaw said:

I'm of the same view as ShootersHillGuru regarding not rushing to be an early adopter of EVs. I regularly stop at the Oxfords services just off the M40 where they have ~15 Tesla EV charging points and invariably they are all in use with other cars queuing to use them. I would find that a real pain on a long journey. We have also quite frequently had to make 300 mile round trips in a day from where we live in the Cotswolds over the Brecon Beacons to the West Coast of Wales to visit my father-in-law and don't recall seeing that many opportunities for charging on that particular route.

Frankly until there is a decent car with the ability to go 400+ miles between charges I can't see me opting for an EV. I am however at that stage of looking at alternatives to my 9 year old Range Rover, the first diesel vehicle I have ever owned (seemed like a good idea at the time!). I am thinking of at least a hybrid, but certainly has to take unleaded fuel. I tend to buy new cars and keep them 8-10 years. However, rather than buying a new car, I am wondering if it might make more sense to starting leasing cars for say a 3 year term and then that gives me the opportunity to switch over to an EV at some point in the next 10 years as and when both the charging infrastructure and EV battery technology improves. 

For what it's worth I've never once had a wait to charge my car in public in what's probably around 30 attempts. That being said I tend to avoid services, I usually plan ahead and find non service station stops enroute. E.g in Hamilton there's a Fastned charging point just off the motorway in a retail park with about 12 rapid chargers which always has free spaces and is much cheaper than a service station. If you look at something like Zapmap you can see all the chargers and plan a route out, looks like there's a fair few rapid chargers between the Cotswolds and Brecon 

Or you can drive in your ICE car to one of the tens of thousands of fuel stations up and down the country and fill up your vehicle in under 5 minutes, gaining anywhere up to 650 miles of range...

follett said:

Ross said:

follett said:

robinofottershaw said:

I'm of the same view as ShootersHillGuru regarding not rushing to be an early adopter of EVs. I regularly stop at the Oxfords services just off the M40 where they have ~15 Tesla EV charging points and invariably they are all in use with other cars queuing to use them. I would find that a real pain on a long journey. We have also quite frequently had to make 300 mile round trips in a day from where we live in the Cotswolds over the Brecon Beacons to the West Coast of Wales to visit my father-in-law and don't recall seeing that many opportunities for charging on that particular route.

Frankly until there is a decent car with the ability to go 400+ miles between charges I can't see me opting for an EV. I am however at that stage of looking at alternatives to my 9 year old Range Rover, the first diesel vehicle I have ever owned (seemed like a good idea at the time!). I am thinking of at least a hybrid, but certainly has to take unleaded fuel. I tend to buy new cars and keep them 8-10 years. However, rather than buying a new car, I am wondering if it might make more sense to starting leasing cars for say a 3 year term and then that gives me the opportunity to switch over to an EV at some point in the next 10 years as and when both the charging infrastructure and EV battery technology improves. 

For what it's worth I've never once had a wait to charge my car in public in what's probably around 30 attempts. That being said I tend to avoid services, I usually plan ahead and find non service station stops enroute. E.g in Hamilton there's a Fastned charging point just off the motorway in a retail park with about 12 rapid chargers which always has free spaces and is much cheaper than a service station. If you look at something like Zapmap you can see all the chargers and plan a route out, looks like there's a fair few rapid chargers between the Cotswolds and Brecon 

Or you can drive in your ICE car to one of the tens of thousands of fuel stations up and down the country and fill up your vehicle in under 5 minutes, gaining anywhere up to 650 miles of range...

I know you can, I was just offering perspective to someone who hasn't used one. I'm not trying to pretend EVs are hassle free. I've chosen to get one due to a good salary sacrifice scheme at work coupled with environmental impact making them more attractive on a personal level than an ICE car

Which works for around say 5% of this country.

Until vehicle costs, longevity (battery degradation), charger availability (especially for those who don't have private driveways), charging speed and range are as good as an ICE vehicle then it will not work for the majority of this country, let alone the world.

It's like their a competition by a certain type of driver to prove they still have a bladder that works as well as it did at 21, and the stamina of long range bomber pilot 

Chizz said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chizz said:

follett said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

colthe3rd said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Of course most of my journeys like most people are local so no big deal if I decided to get an EV. However I’m based in West Yorkshire so for family and other reasons I return to SE London on a reasonably regular basis. If my EV gave me 200 miles it wouldn’t get me there. Another full charge wouldn’t get me home. Might sound a bit daft but that alone puts me in two minds. 

I did a road trip in a Renault Zoe at Christmas 2022, went from south London to Manchester and then Liverpool and then back. The range of those is only about 170 at motorway speeds and in the cold. Never had an issue with a stop off at a service station for a quick break, grab a coffee, came back and I'd enough charge to get me to through the next leg. I've got a bigger EV now with a much longer range so it would be even easier, I think Tesla's charge from about 20% to 80% in around 30 minutes using on of their superchargers, depending on the model that's around 180 miles in the time it takes to stop off for a quick break and a drink.

Obviously really long distances for EVs at the moment are a slight issue as it will add some time to a journey but if you're traveling the length of the country you're probably stopping for a break anyway so the additional time then is minimal.

Not to detract from the excellent information in your post but I never stop for a coffee or a break when driving Leeds to London. Having to do so would really irritate me. Also when I get to London on my regular visits to visit my father in law I couldn’t charge my EV at his house. Having to drive to somewhere and spend the time doing so would also irritate me. Sounds like I’m just creating problems where there are none but at this point an EV is not for me. 

It definitely does cause a hassle if you wouldn't ordinarily stop as it does add a fair bit of journey time on. You would be able to charge at the house as they can be charged with a standard 3 point plug but it depends how long you stay for. They charge slowly and wouldn't do much damage if you were only there a few hours

Fewer people driving long-distances in one hit, tired, would be a good thing

The journey time for me from Leeds to London is under four hours. I certainly don’t need to stop because I’m tired. In fact stopping for forty five minutes would make little difference to my level of tiredness if I was stupid enough to drive in that condition.

The Highway Code recommends a "minimum break of at least 15 minutes after every two hours of driving". Drivers having to stop to recharge their car, as well as themselves, is a good thing. 

I don’t know many people that would follow that advice. Basically it’s bollocks, thats why. I bet there is not a single poster on this thread that does. 

Chizz said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chizz said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chizz said:

follett said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

colthe3rd said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Of course most of my journeys like most people are local so no big deal if I decided to get an EV. However I’m based in West Yorkshire so for family and other reasons I return to SE London on a reasonably regular basis. If my EV gave me 200 miles it wouldn’t get me there. Another full charge wouldn’t get me home. Might sound a bit daft but that alone puts me in two minds. 

I did a road trip in a Renault Zoe at Christmas 2022, went from south London to Manchester and then Liverpool and then back. The range of those is only about 170 at motorway speeds and in the cold. Never had an issue with a stop off at a service station for a quick break, grab a coffee, came back and I'd enough charge to get me to through the next leg. I've got a bigger EV now with a much longer range so it would be even easier, I think Tesla's charge from about 20% to 80% in around 30 minutes using on of their superchargers, depending on the model that's around 180 miles in the time it takes to stop off for a quick break and a drink.

Obviously really long distances for EVs at the moment are a slight issue as it will add some time to a journey but if you're traveling the length of the country you're probably stopping for a break anyway so the additional time then is minimal.

Not to detract from the excellent information in your post but I never stop for a coffee or a break when driving Leeds to London. Having to do so would really irritate me. Also when I get to London on my regular visits to visit my father in law I couldn’t charge my EV at his house. Having to drive to somewhere and spend the time doing so would also irritate me. Sounds like I’m just creating problems where there are none but at this point an EV is not for me. 

It definitely does cause a hassle if you wouldn't ordinarily stop as it does add a fair bit of journey time on. You would be able to charge at the house as they can be charged with a standard 3 point plug but it depends how long you stay for. They charge slowly and wouldn't do much damage if you were only there a few hours

Fewer people driving long-distances in one hit, tired, would be a good thing

The journey time for me from Leeds to London is under four hours. I certainly don’t need to stop because I’m tired. In fact stopping for forty five minutes would make little difference to my level of tiredness if I was stupid enough to drive in that condition.

The Highway Code recommends a "minimum break of at least 15 minutes after every two hours of driving". Drivers having to stop to recharge their car, as well as themselves, is a good thing. 

I don’t know many people that would follow that advice. Basically it’s bollocks, that why. I bet there is not a single poster on this thread that does. 

You'd lose that bet

You then ?

colthe3rd said:

Ross said:

follett said:

Ross said:

follett said:

robinofottershaw said:

I'm of the same view as ShootersHillGuru regarding not rushing to be an early adopter of EVs. I regularly stop at the Oxfords services just off the M40 where they have ~15 Tesla EV charging points and invariably they are all in use with other cars queuing to use them. I would find that a real pain on a long journey. We have also quite frequently had to make 300 mile round trips in a day from where we live in the Cotswolds over the Brecon Beacons to the West Coast of Wales to visit my father-in-law and don't recall seeing that many opportunities for charging on that particular route.

Frankly until there is a decent car with the ability to go 400+ miles between charges I can't see me opting for an EV. I am however at that stage of looking at alternatives to my 9 year old Range Rover, the first diesel vehicle I have ever owned (seemed like a good idea at the time!). I am thinking of at least a hybrid, but certainly has to take unleaded fuel. I tend to buy new cars and keep them 8-10 years. However, rather than buying a new car, I am wondering if it might make more sense to starting leasing cars for say a 3 year term and then that gives me the opportunity to switch over to an EV at some point in the next 10 years as and when both the charging infrastructure and EV battery technology improves. 

For what it's worth I've never once had a wait to charge my car in public in what's probably around 30 attempts. That being said I tend to avoid services, I usually plan ahead and find non service station stops enroute. E.g in Hamilton there's a Fastned charging point just off the motorway in a retail park with about 12 rapid chargers which always has free spaces and is much cheaper than a service station. If you look at something like Zapmap you can see all the chargers and plan a route out, looks like there's a fair few rapid chargers between the Cotswolds and Brecon 

Or you can drive in your ICE car to one of the tens of thousands of fuel stations up and down the country and fill up your vehicle in under 5 minutes, gaining anywhere up to 650 miles of range...

I know you can, I was just offering perspective to someone who hasn't used one. I'm not trying to pretend EVs are hassle free. I've chosen to get one due to a good salary sacrifice scheme at work coupled with environmental impact making them more attractive on a personal level than an ICE car

Which works for around say 5% of this country.

Until vehicle costs, longevity (battery degradation), charger availability (especially for those who don't have private driveways), charging speed and range are as good as an ICE vehicle then it will not work for the majority of this country, let alone the world.

The majority of the country are regularly driving more than 300 miles at a time are they? Battery degradation is no more an issue than a lifespan of an ICE engine. Agree on charger availability however it is improving every day, a quick look at a map in London shows that most areas have very good on street availability. The technology is improving constantly and by the time most people have made the switch it will be vastly different to what it looks like now.

No, but the majority of the country don't live in London where on street availability is.

I live in a block of flats with off road but not allocated parking. Who is going to pay for chargers for the 18 bays in my block of flats? If I need to recharge my battery why should I have to find a charger that might be free and working and sit there for at least 45 minutes? 

Re lifespan of batteries - battery degradation is a thing. ICE cars can still fill up with 450 miles of fuel whether they're a year old or 30 years old. The size of the fuel tank doesn't degrade over time.

If an ICE car breaks you can easily go out and buy another for a couple of grand. How do families earning minimum wage afford a brand new electric vehicle? Second hand prices are still high, and I refer back to my comment about battery degradation. The cheapest ones aren't suitable for families either as they're usually things like Renault Zoes.

Rothko said:

We had a Zoe as a family, and it was fine, the kids are bigger and now we're in an EV Megane. 

As for Battery degradation, and mentioning the Zoe, there are Zoe's still on their original battery packs with a million miles on the clock. 

This idea that ICEs are these perfectly engineered things that don't have problems, is for the birds. 

Of course not. But they're a lot easier to fix and/or replace.

Ross said:

colthe3rd said:

Ross said:

follett said:

Ross said:

follett said:

robinofottershaw said:

I'm of the same view as ShootersHillGuru regarding not rushing to be an early adopter of EVs. I regularly stop at the Oxfords services just off the M40 where they have ~15 Tesla EV charging points and invariably they are all in use with other cars queuing to use them. I would find that a real pain on a long journey. We have also quite frequently had to make 300 mile round trips in a day from where we live in the Cotswolds over the Brecon Beacons to the West Coast of Wales to visit my father-in-law and don't recall seeing that many opportunities for charging on that particular route.

Frankly until there is a decent car with the ability to go 400+ miles between charges I can't see me opting for an EV. I am however at that stage of looking at alternatives to my 9 year old Range Rover, the first diesel vehicle I have ever owned (seemed like a good idea at the time!). I am thinking of at least a hybrid, but certainly has to take unleaded fuel. I tend to buy new cars and keep them 8-10 years. However, rather than buying a new car, I am wondering if it might make more sense to starting leasing cars for say a 3 year term and then that gives me the opportunity to switch over to an EV at some point in the next 10 years as and when both the charging infrastructure and EV battery technology improves. 

For what it's worth I've never once had a wait to charge my car in public in what's probably around 30 attempts. That being said I tend to avoid services, I usually plan ahead and find non service station stops enroute. E.g in Hamilton there's a Fastned charging point just off the motorway in a retail park with about 12 rapid chargers which always has free spaces and is much cheaper than a service station. If you look at something like Zapmap you can see all the chargers and plan a route out, looks like there's a fair few rapid chargers between the Cotswolds and Brecon 

Or you can drive in your ICE car to one of the tens of thousands of fuel stations up and down the country and fill up your vehicle in under 5 minutes, gaining anywhere up to 650 miles of range...

I know you can, I was just offering perspective to someone who hasn't used one. I'm not trying to pretend EVs are hassle free. I've chosen to get one due to a good salary sacrifice scheme at work coupled with environmental impact making them more attractive on a personal level than an ICE car

Which works for around say 5% of this country.

Until vehicle costs, longevity (battery degradation), charger availability (especially for those who don't have private driveways), charging speed and range are as good as an ICE vehicle then it will not work for the majority of this country, let alone the world.

The majority of the country are regularly driving more than 300 miles at a time are they? Battery degradation is no more an issue than a lifespan of an ICE engine. Agree on charger availability however it is improving every day, a quick look at a map in London shows that most areas have very good on street availability. The technology is improving constantly and by the time most people have made the switch it will be vastly different to what it looks like now.

No, but the majority of the country don't live in London where on street availability is.

I live in a block of flats with off road but not allocated parking. Who is going to pay for chargers for the 18 bays in my block of flats? If I need to recharge my battery why should I have to find a charger that might be free and working and sit there for at least 45 minutes? 

Re lifespan of batteries - battery degradation is a thing. ICE cars can still fill up with 450 miles of fuel whether they're a year old or 30 years old. The size of the fuel tank doesn't degrade over time.

If an ICE car breaks you can easily go out and buy another for a couple of grand. How do families earning minimum wage afford a brand new electric vehicle? Second hand prices are still high, and I refer back to my comment about battery degradation. The cheapest ones aren't suitable for families either as they're usually things like Renault Zoes.

I'm not saying battery degradation isn't a thing, just like combustion engine degradation is a thing, over times these things wear out. https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/the-truth-about-electric-car-battery-degradation-apYqu1y6IYnr 9% over 10 years really isn't that bad. There are plenty of Telsa owners having driven over 100,000 miles with very little in way of reduced range. 

I do agree about charger accessibility being the main issue at the moment, more are being installed but it really depends on where you live. Looking at a map of chargers you see very few in Lewisham right now but in neighbouring Southwark they are everywhere. I believe there is a government fund going out to councils to get more installed but I can't imagine it is enough. There are other things in the pipeline, a company has trials with some councils around the country installing a pavement runner that will allow a cable to be placed into it and plug into your house. Like I said these things take time and it's all very new so give it a few years things will look a lot different.

Cost I grant you is prohibitive for most right now, however by the time everyone will be making the switch there will be a lot more second hand cars available, especially given so many of the EVs on the road now are lease vehicles. 

colthe3rd said:

Ross said:

colthe3rd said:

Ross said:

follett said:

Ross said:

follett said:

robinofottershaw said:

I'm of the same view as ShootersHillGuru regarding not rushing to be an early adopter of EVs. I regularly stop at the Oxfords services just off the M40 where they have ~15 Tesla EV charging points and invariably they are all in use with other cars queuing to use them. I would find that a real pain on a long journey. We have also quite frequently had to make 300 mile round trips in a day from where we live in the Cotswolds over the Brecon Beacons to the West Coast of Wales to visit my father-in-law and don't recall seeing that many opportunities for charging on that particular route.

Frankly until there is a decent car with the ability to go 400+ miles between charges I can't see me opting for an EV. I am however at that stage of looking at alternatives to my 9 year old Range Rover, the first diesel vehicle I have ever owned (seemed like a good idea at the time!). I am thinking of at least a hybrid, but certainly has to take unleaded fuel. I tend to buy new cars and keep them 8-10 years. However, rather than buying a new car, I am wondering if it might make more sense to starting leasing cars for say a 3 year term and then that gives me the opportunity to switch over to an EV at some point in the next 10 years as and when both the charging infrastructure and EV battery technology improves. 

For what it's worth I've never once had a wait to charge my car in public in what's probably around 30 attempts. That being said I tend to avoid services, I usually plan ahead and find non service station stops enroute. E.g in Hamilton there's a Fastned charging point just off the motorway in a retail park with about 12 rapid chargers which always has free spaces and is much cheaper than a service station. If you look at something like Zapmap you can see all the chargers and plan a route out, looks like there's a fair few rapid chargers between the Cotswolds and Brecon 

Or you can drive in your ICE car to one of the tens of thousands of fuel stations up and down the country and fill up your vehicle in under 5 minutes, gaining anywhere up to 650 miles of range...

I know you can, I was just offering perspective to someone who hasn't used one. I'm not trying to pretend EVs are hassle free. I've chosen to get one due to a good salary sacrifice scheme at work coupled with environmental impact making them more attractive on a personal level than an ICE car

Which works for around say 5% of this country.

Until vehicle costs, longevity (battery degradation), charger availability (especially for those who don't have private driveways), charging speed and range are as good as an ICE vehicle then it will not work for the majority of this country, let alone the world.

The majority of the country are regularly driving more than 300 miles at a time are they? Battery degradation is no more an issue than a lifespan of an ICE engine. Agree on charger availability however it is improving every day, a quick look at a map in London shows that most areas have very good on street availability. The technology is improving constantly and by the time most people have made the switch it will be vastly different to what it looks like now.

No, but the majority of the country don't live in London where on street availability is.

I live in a block of flats with off road but not allocated parking. Who is going to pay for chargers for the 18 bays in my block of flats? If I need to recharge my battery why should I have to find a charger that might be free and working and sit there for at least 45 minutes? 

Re lifespan of batteries - battery degradation is a thing. ICE cars can still fill up with 450 miles of fuel whether they're a year old or 30 years old. The size of the fuel tank doesn't degrade over time.

If an ICE car breaks you can easily go out and buy another for a couple of grand. How do families earning minimum wage afford a brand new electric vehicle? Second hand prices are still high, and I refer back to my comment about battery degradation. The cheapest ones aren't suitable for families either as they're usually things like Renault Zoes.

I'm not saying battery degradation isn't a thing, just like combustion engine degradation is a thing, over times these things wear out. https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/the-truth-about-electric-car-battery-degradation-apYqu1y6IYnr 9% over 10 years really isn't that bad. There are plenty of Telsa owners having driven over 100,000 miles with very little in way of reduced range. 

I do agree about charger accessibility being the main issue at the moment, more are being installed but it really depends on where you live. Looking at a map of chargers you see very few in Lewisham right now but in neighbouring Southwark they are everywhere. I believe there is a government fund going out to councils to get more installed but I can't imagine it is enough. There are other things in the pipeline, a company has trials with some councils around the country installing a pavement runner that will allow a cable to be placed into it and plug into your house. Like I said these things take time and it's all very new so give it a few years things will look a lot different.

Cost I grant you is prohibitive for most right now, however by the time everyone will be making the switch there will be a lot more second hand cars available, especially given so many of the EVs on the road now are lease vehicles. 

All fair points.

I appreciate the need to do something (even as a petrolhead). However, the push for everything to happen when the infrastructure isn't in place and costs to get into an EV are still high is a big sticking point. Especially when there are so many ICE vehicles which are still fine - better to recycle an old car than build a new one with the associated production costs/emissions surely?

I still think the government (and many other countries' governments for that matter) have missed a trick by outlawing new hybrids from 2030 (or is it 2035 now?) when they are surely better than traditional ICE vehicles and still give a better compromise in regard to price and fuelling in conjunction with emissions than going fully EV without the aforementioned infrastructure being in place.

colthe3rd said:

Ross said:

follett said:

Ross said:

follett said:

robinofottershaw said:

I'm of the same view as ShootersHillGuru regarding not rushing to be an early adopter of EVs. I regularly stop at the Oxfords services just off the M40 where they have ~15 Tesla EV charging points and invariably they are all in use with other cars queuing to use them. I would find that a real pain on a long journey. We have also quite frequently had to make 300 mile round trips in a day from where we live in the Cotswolds over the Brecon Beacons to the West Coast of Wales to visit my father-in-law and don't recall seeing that many opportunities for charging on that particular route.

Frankly until there is a decent car with the ability to go 400+ miles between charges I can't see me opting for an EV. I am however at that stage of looking at alternatives to my 9 year old Range Rover, the first diesel vehicle I have ever owned (seemed like a good idea at the time!). I am thinking of at least a hybrid, but certainly has to take unleaded fuel. I tend to buy new cars and keep them 8-10 years. However, rather than buying a new car, I am wondering if it might make more sense to starting leasing cars for say a 3 year term and then that gives me the opportunity to switch over to an EV at some point in the next 10 years as and when both the charging infrastructure and EV battery technology improves. 

For what it's worth I've never once had a wait to charge my car in public in what's probably around 30 attempts. That being said I tend to avoid services, I usually plan ahead and find non service station stops enroute. E.g in Hamilton there's a Fastned charging point just off the motorway in a retail park with about 12 rapid chargers which always has free spaces and is much cheaper than a service station. If you look at something like Zapmap you can see all the chargers and plan a route out, looks like there's a fair few rapid chargers between the Cotswolds and Brecon 

Or you can drive in your ICE car to one of the tens of thousands of fuel stations up and down the country and fill up your vehicle in under 5 minutes, gaining anywhere up to 650 miles of range...

I know you can, I was just offering perspective to someone who hasn't used one. I'm not trying to pretend EVs are hassle free. I've chosen to get one due to a good salary sacrifice scheme at work coupled with environmental impact making them more attractive on a personal level than an ICE car

Which works for around say 5% of this country.

Until vehicle costs, longevity (battery degradation), charger availability (especially for those who don't have private driveways), charging speed and range are as good as an ICE vehicle then it will not work for the majority of this country, let alone the world.

The majority of the country are regularly driving more than 300 miles at a time are they? Battery degradation is no more an issue than a lifespan of an ICE engine. Agree on charger availability however it is improving every day, a quick look at a map in London shows that most areas have very good on street availability. The technology is improving constantly and by the time most people have made the switch it will be vastly different to what it looks like now.

Had anyone used their EV for driving abroad? If so, was it easy to find chargers and were they in English?

I am looking to potentially get one as a company car, but drive abroad 3 or 4 times a year, usually no more then 500 miles once off the Eurotunnel

Thanks