Need a replacement for CBT and another wide player, had no outlet in the 1st half yesterday.CBT is going to be a big loss without him this season we'd probably be bottom 4.
In 91 apps he got 13 assists according to his stats , and 136 apps with 21 goals that not a player who going to get you promoted … not consistent enough .. you can’t carry a player who may have a brilliant 5 min spell in a game ..
You know stats and all that? Goals, assists, tackles, cards, appearances and so forth?
What is the category of stat for a player who makes up for the mistakes of his teammates, backs them up, gets them out of trouble, holds the line when others go missing?
Would that characteristic come under assists?
Or is it a new descriptor to characterise a player like Dobson, a team mate's dream team mate.
And yes it is true that Kinsella was that, and so was Jordan Cousins, Josh Cullen, and maybe Conor Coventry in the future. Dobson has good footballing technique and ability anyway, but there is a further aspect of his game to consider too, his value to the team.
He has been special and more or less carried Charlton Athletic for the past two years, and he megged Maguire at Old Trafford too.
Dobbo is a tricky one. Having the most tackles in the league is a false positive because half the time he's making them because he lost the ball or he's 30 yards out of position to make the tackle. Great when he connects but awful when he misses it.
He's had to play with some right dross for us, so does he deserve to show his merit in a team with better players? Yes. But does he deserve a significant pay rise to do so? Not in my opinion
Or maybe he makes the most tackles because he's very good at it and he's often the only fecking midfielder or forward willing and able to chase down players and put a tackle in.
So many games he's been doing the work of two or more players so yes, sometimes he gets there late but at least he gets there.
I think some people are being too quick to
1. Decide that the new signings are better and/or more reliable (Dobson has a very good injury and suspension record) and
2. Not seeing that having the likes of Backinson and Coventry alongside him makes Dobson a more valuable asset to the team, not necessarily surplus to requirements.
This happens every window. So many were so pleased (not me) to see the back of Morgan as we were bound to get better but we didn't and the player who was "limited" and would "struggle to get a league 2 gig" is doing well in a side not only above us but actually challenging for promotion, unlike his former team.
Agree with absolutely everything you have said here.
I have lost track of how many players described as 'rubbish' somehow end up playing in higher divisions or at a higher level whilst we languish around in League One in an infinite loop.
It's clear to everyone that we need to improve the squad if we want a chance of getting promoted any time soon but improving the squad doesn't mean ripping it up and starting again
Stockton isn't what we need. Yes he's a big lump but I think people are conned into rating him because he usually performs at The Valley. Technically he's nothing special and he's used to being the big fish which he won't be here
He doesn't just perform at the Valley, he was wanted by Bolton and Derby but were both put off by Morecambes high asking price. Probably the best striker in the league in the 21/22 season and if he got his move to Bolton or Derby for 22/23, I think he would have picked up where he left off.
I can't remember a single striker performing as well as him in recent seasons, links the play, great shooting range, no slouch.
As a punt to see if he could do a job, we could do a lot worse. Much better player than Tedic and we gave him a chance.
It's also a bit of myth that he's a big lump. He plays with the ball at his feet and holds it. Links up the play really well, not the type you lump it long to and he will win it like Aneke, but rather you give him the ball and he'll probably keep it or get a shot off.
But it’s clear he’s not that player anymore, been crap at burton, he’s 29 years old with no resale value. Unlike May and JCH he has only had one decent season.
There’s a reason the bigger clubs in the division didn’t sign him.
He’s an average lower League striker, who has had essentially one outstanding season, it happens.
Which is good, as we are an average lower League team.
Rumour on ittv that we have put a bid in for Cheltenham striker Will Goodwin
Might suggest we’re after two strikers, something I think was also rumoured on ITTV. You don’t go from aiming for JCH to a young striker without a good goalscoring record when there will be plenty of options in between.
So he insisted on starting Fraser ahead of Watson time and time again, but now says he's not fast or energetic enough and can leave.
Perhaps he saw him as one of our better players and wanted to give him a run of games to show it? Now MA has seen he’s not up to it?
This is what I was thinking. How do you personally form an opinion/know if they are good enough if you don't give them a run of games?
If the resulting opinion is that he's not fast enough and lacks energy, you could probably get that from training.
And even if Apples did want to see what Fraser is about, surely he should have been prioritising points and performances. Did he need to continue playing him over Watson when we could all see he wasn't up to it?
I think Dobbo is going to prove a lot of people wrong with what he goes on to do. Fingers are rightly being pointed everywhere at the moment but the guy who has at times held the team together by himself for the past few years isn't the one.
I hope you’re right, he deserves that opportunity.
I think he’s in a difficult place because he rightly feels that his efforts have been worth more than the contract offer that he’s got on the table. Meanwhile there doesn’t seem to be any other club out there prepared to make an offer for him that matches or betters it.
Unless I missed it, no-one has actually been linked to Dobson yet, unlike CBT. Obviously it's entirely possible that he has been approached and we just didn't hear about it but taken at face value it suggests he's not in such high demand.
For what it's worth I want him to stay on if possible but if his wage demands can't be met then we move on and he goes to someone who can meet his expectations.
As it stands he is one of our better players, arguably the best. I don't deny that. But in an ideal world we shouldn't need a midfielder whose main job is to tackle everyone, and all the while he's here we're tying the whole teams' approach to him IMO.
Unless I missed it, no-one has actually been linked to Dobson yet, unlike CBT. Obviously it's entirely possible that he has been approached and we just didn't hear about it but taken at face value it suggests he's not in such high demand.
For what it's worth I want him to stay on if possible but if his wage demands can't be met then we move on and he goes to someone who can meet his expectations.
As it stands he is one of our better players, arguably the best. I don't deny that. But in an ideal world we shouldn't need a midfielder whose main job is to tackle everyone, and all the while he's here we're tying the whole teams' approach to him IMO.
Makalele? Deschamps?
Every great team has the guy that does the hard yards
Well I have to say I am pretty stunned by this - a Hammer mate of mine says he is very good indeed, and surprised he chose to go to a Div 3 club - is far too good for Div 3 he says - 3 1/2 year deal as well
I hope we keep hold of Dobbo and CBT - hopefully they will view this signing as a reason to stay onboard, as perhaps it would be worth hanging around at Charlton now
CBT not signing a new deal according to Swansea social media site the Plymouth Herald
Unless I missed it, no-one has actually been linked to Dobson yet, unlike CBT. Obviously it's entirely possible that he has been approached and we just didn't hear about it but taken at face value it suggests he's not in such high demand.
For what it's worth I want him to stay on if possible but if his wage demands can't be met then we move on and he goes to someone who can meet his expectations.
As it stands he is one of our better players, arguably the best. I don't deny that. But in an ideal world we shouldn't need a midfielder whose main job is to tackle everyone, and all the while he's here we're tying the whole teams' approach to him IMO.
Makalele? Deschamps?
Every great team has the guy that does the hard yards
Makalele retired 12 years ago, things have moved on since then. There's definitely room for someone who does the hard yards but very few if any of the best teams have someone who ONLY does that. And that's exactly what I mean by him not having many overtures yet (that we know about) - if he was as good as some would have you think why has he not had any interest in his time here? Who are the promotion teams looking at snapping him up?
He's brilliant at what he does, I agree. But what the real Makalele types also do is dictate play and move things forward as well, which is where Dobson remains unproven.
Straight swop deal for Terrell Thomas who they were after last season.
Nooooooo. TT was very good yesterday, and is normally pretty steady, especially in his favoured CB role. It does no harm to have a versatile left sided player like him on the bench. Not first choice, but on the bench is fine. Ness is still young and maybe not ready for the level required for a promotion push. Not yet at least.
If you want to bring in another CB it can’t be a bit of a punt, it would need to be someone proven and ready to go.
The big problem with the above is that Thomas isn’t a left sided player.
Some fans think he is because that is where we have forced him to play in the absence of left footed defenders. In reality he is a right footed CB that doesn’t naturally suit LCB.
When Gillesphey plays you’ll see a big difference in balance across the back line with Gillesphey able to distribute and support Edun far better.
I’d forgotten that. But didn’t he say he was two footed, and ok anywhere across the back four? It makes a very useful option on the bench. He certainly looks comfortable at LCB.
Has he been given a chance at RCB with us, in a cup game perhaps? Although I must have seen Gillesphey a couple of times I don’t remember him. Sounds good from what you say.
Are we suggesting that Dobbo is currently on £2500-3000 a week when we are paying Fraser something in the region of £7k?
(The stated 70% increase )
I'd be pissed off if I was Dobbo if true.
Yes no doubt Dubai has access to all the players contracts & is involved in contact negotiations. While he might be a mouthpiece for methven & co it's like believing southall had bought The Valley
I can't believe people are seriously suggesting Dobson gets dropped for a few players that have a combined 100 minutes or so for Charlton.
A better manager would make sure he's in the team, he's undoubtedly one of our better players and should be part of our rebuild.
If you're of the view he's leaving so you'd want to see what else we have to offer then fair enough, but if he stays put (I really, really hope so) he is without a doubt one of the first names on the sheet.
I don’t think any player has a right to be picked ahead of better players. He’s been our lynchpin for ages, and earlier in the season he was unbelievable, but if he ends up on the bench because we have better, then that can only benefit the club.
So he insisted on starting Fraser ahead of Watson time and time again, but now says he's not fast or energetic enough and can leave.
Perhaps he saw him as one of our better players and wanted to give him a run of games to show it? Now MA has seen he’s not up to it?
This is what I was thinking. How do you personally form an opinion/know if they are good enough if you don't give them a run of games?
If the resulting opinion is that he's not fast enough and lacks energy, you could probably get that from training.
And even if Apples did want to see what Fraser is about, surely he should have been prioritising points and performances. Did he need to continue playing him over Watson when we could all see he wasn't up to it?
I think Fraser started about 11 games after coming back from injury v Orient. If we take a step back and stick with reality, that's not an unreasonable length of time to assess a player in the first team. Especially when he was bound to be "rusty" for the first 5 odd games. Unfortunately for Fraser and us, he then got even worse, rather than better.
Comments
What is the category of stat for a player who makes up for the mistakes of his teammates, backs them up, gets them out of trouble, holds the line when others go missing?
Would that characteristic come under assists?
Or is it a new descriptor to characterise a player like Dobson, a team mate's dream team mate.
And yes it is true that Kinsella was that, and so was Jordan Cousins, Josh Cullen, and maybe Conor Coventry in the future. Dobson has good footballing technique and ability anyway, but there is a further aspect of his game to consider too, his value to the team.
He has been special and more or less carried Charlton Athletic for the past two years, and he megged Maguire at Old Trafford too.
All the more realistic ones and would improve us. I think the rest will have championship interest at least unfortunately
How do you personally form an opinion/know if they are good enough if you don't give them a run of games?
And even if Apples did want to see what Fraser is about, surely he should have been prioritising points and performances. Did he need to continue playing him over Watson when we could all see he wasn't up to it?
For what it's worth I want him to stay on if possible but if his wage demands can't be met then we move on and he goes to someone who can meet his expectations.
As it stands he is one of our better players, arguably the best. I don't deny that. But in an ideal world we shouldn't need a midfielder whose main job is to tackle everyone, and all the while he's here we're tying the whole teams' approach to him IMO.
Deschamps?
Every great team has the guy that does the hard yards
He's brilliant at what he does, I agree. But what the real Makalele types also do is dictate play and move things forward as well, which is where Dobson remains unproven.
Although I must have seen Gillesphey a couple of times I don’t remember him. Sounds good from what you say.
If we take a step back and stick with reality, that's not an unreasonable length of time to assess a player in the first team.
Especially when he was bound to be "rusty" for the first 5 odd games.
Unfortunately for Fraser and us, he then got even worse, rather than better.