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Lloyd Jones
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A Madjid BougherraBraziliance said:
I genuinely liked him as a player 50% of the time, he was a disaster waiting to happen, but players were pretty scared to go near him, and he rarely lost an aerial duel. Many times I saw him attempt to run out with the ball. He was just a bit slow on the turn and made bad decisions.Chunes said:
WhaaaaaaaaattttBraziliance said:
He played left side at Cambridge and did alright mate. Either way you see my point, it would be nice to have a centre back who is comfortable in bringing the ball out.fenaddick said:
He has virtually no left foot at all as evidenced when he went on his marauding run. Agree that I'd like to see us try someone with better passing range in the middle, Z Mitchell could be that man but feels too early. I wonder if REG is worth a go there at some point?Braziliance said:I think Jones is very good at certain things, simple passes, fairly strong, wins headers, but he lacks some of the qualities to be a top CB, so I think a back 5 suits him.
I'd like to see him on the left side, with Mitchell on the right and someone in the middle who can allow us to play it out a bit. I know Nathan Jones doesn't necessarily like to play that way, but it would be nice to have that option.
I hope in January we try and capitalise on a club looking to sale a player before he goes for nothing.
Either way, been impressed by him this season so far.
I'll probably get a LoL for this, but Ryan Innis was pretty good at it, would be nice to get someone similar without the red card in him and the turning speed of a tractor.
Come on Brazilliance you see the game better than that
If he wasn't playing non league football at the moment, I might be motivated to fish out some highlights of dear old Ryan "bringing the ball out"
I'm not saying I want Innis, or a player of his level, at all, rather someone who could try and run with the ball a bit instead of lumping it. We are missing it at the moment.0 -
I’ve noticed this too and it feels deliberate to me as this also used to happen when Famewo played. I can still see him punting the ball into the Curbs stand now.NabySarr said:
Rotherham pressed Mitchell and Gillesphey whenever the ball was passed to them. They didn’t press Joneskillerandflash said:
Agreed. You'd have thought he passed the ball to an opposition player in the penalty area, the way he's being blamed by some. At the time I, and others around me, were furious with the lack of closing down, as the goalscorer still had loads to do.Exiled_Addick said:What Jones did on Saturday happens so far before the goal it's not even in the highlights package on YouTube. I think it's harsh to single him out and more responsibility lies on the midfield for not getting close to the shooter much earlier. No player makes zero errors and players have to have each other's backs when a mistake does occur.
Jones is the only one of the 3 current CBs who at least tries to bring the ball forward and make forward passes (as opposed to forward hoofs).
Maybe it was just because he was the middle centre back that he wasn’t pressed, but it felt like a deliberate plan that they wanted him to be the one passing the ball, because he isn’t the best at it, and if so it worked0 -
Wonder if some of the pressing of the R/LCB is less about personnel and more about our team structure? If the idea of our play is to provide attacking threat through width then pressing the outside CB’s is a good way of stopping the ball going out the WB’s. Opposition can then pack the midfield and nullify the option of playing through there.2
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It's a lot easier to play an awkward ball into the channel from a R/LCB than it is from the centre. And that's much of our game.fenaddick said:Wonder if some of the pressing of the R/LCB is less about personnel and more about our team structure? If the idea of our play is to provide attacking threat through width then pressing the outside CB’s is a good way of stopping the ball going out the WB’s. Opposition can then pack the midfield and nullify the option of playing through there.
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Over the top yes, much harder to get the ball to the feet of Small/Ramsay to run at a fullback though. We haven’t done a lot of that but I think some of that is down to the opposition’s set up rather than the planChunes said:
It's a lot easier to play an awkward ball into the channel from a R/LCB than it is from the centre. And that's much of our game.fenaddick said:Wonder if some of the pressing of the R/LCB is less about personnel and more about our team structure? If the idea of our play is to provide attacking threat through width then pressing the outside CB’s is a good way of stopping the ball going out the WB’s. Opposition can then pack the midfield and nullify the option of playing through there.0 -
I've been watching for 30 years and I don't remember many centre halves that could bring the ball out of defence. And we are in league 1.Braziliance said:
I genuinely liked him as a player 50% of the time, he was a disaster waiting to happen, but players were pretty scared to go near him, and he rarely lost an aerial duel. Many times I saw him attempt to run out with the ball. He was just a bit slow on the turn and made bad decisions.Chunes said:
WhaaaaaaaaattttBraziliance said:
He played left side at Cambridge and did alright mate. Either way you see my point, it would be nice to have a centre back who is comfortable in bringing the ball out.fenaddick said:
He has virtually no left foot at all as evidenced when he went on his marauding run. Agree that I'd like to see us try someone with better passing range in the middle, Z Mitchell could be that man but feels too early. I wonder if REG is worth a go there at some point?Braziliance said:I think Jones is very good at certain things, simple passes, fairly strong, wins headers, but he lacks some of the qualities to be a top CB, so I think a back 5 suits him.
I'd like to see him on the left side, with Mitchell on the right and someone in the middle who can allow us to play it out a bit. I know Nathan Jones doesn't necessarily like to play that way, but it would be nice to have that option.
I hope in January we try and capitalise on a club looking to sale a player before he goes for nothing.
Either way, been impressed by him this season so far.
I'll probably get a LoL for this, but Ryan Innis was pretty good at it, would be nice to get someone similar without the red card in him and the turning speed of a tractor.
Come on Brazilliance you see the game better than that
If he wasn't playing non league football at the moment, I might be motivated to fish out some highlights of dear old Ryan "bringing the ball out"
I'm not saying I want Innis, or a player of his level, at all, rather someone who could try and run with the ball a bit instead of lumping it. We are missing it at the moment.
Back to Jones, he's had some good games- I think playing in the middle of a back 5 is a pretty easy ride, but he's ok. I'd rather play Alex Mitchell in the middle, Zac Mitchell on the right and Jones on the left. I don't think we'd miss Gillesphey's long balls over the top of the oppo full back that much.0 -
wmcf123 said:
I've been watching for 30 years and I don't remember many centre halves that could bring the ball out of defence. And we are in league 1.Braziliance said:
I genuinely liked him as a player 50% of the time, he was a disaster waiting to happen, but players were pretty scared to go near him, and he rarely lost an aerial duel. Many times I saw him attempt to run out with the ball. He was just a bit slow on the turn and made bad decisions.Chunes said:
WhaaaaaaaaattttBraziliance said:
He played left side at Cambridge and did alright mate. Either way you see my point, it would be nice to have a centre back who is comfortable in bringing the ball out.fenaddick said:
He has virtually no left foot at all as evidenced when he went on his marauding run. Agree that I'd like to see us try someone with better passing range in the middle, Z Mitchell could be that man but feels too early. I wonder if REG is worth a go there at some point?Braziliance said:I think Jones is very good at certain things, simple passes, fairly strong, wins headers, but he lacks some of the qualities to be a top CB, so I think a back 5 suits him.
I'd like to see him on the left side, with Mitchell on the right and someone in the middle who can allow us to play it out a bit. I know Nathan Jones doesn't necessarily like to play that way, but it would be nice to have that option.
I hope in January we try and capitalise on a club looking to sale a player before he goes for nothing.
Either way, been impressed by him this season so far.
I'll probably get a LoL for this, but Ryan Innis was pretty good at it, would be nice to get someone similar without the red card in him and the turning speed of a tractor.
Come on Brazilliance you see the game better than that
If he wasn't playing non league football at the moment, I might be motivated to fish out some highlights of dear old Ryan "bringing the ball out"
I'm not saying I want Innis, or a player of his level, at all, rather someone who could try and run with the ball a bit instead of lumping it. We are missing it at the moment.
Back to Jones, he's had some good games- I think playing in the middle of a back 5 is a pretty easy ride, but he's ok. I'd rather play Alex Mitchell in the middle, Zac Mitchell on the right and Jones on the left. I don't think we'd miss Gillesphey's long balls over the top of the oppo full back that much.I don't know if it's an easy ride. It depends really. Sometimes you put your CB in the middle to hide and protect him and ask him only to do the defendery things; we used to put Ness there and we put Elerewe there against Oxford, but you also rely on your middle CB to hold the fort, organise and communicate when your wider CBs go out to cover for the WB or stop channel runs. It might seem like he's mostly just throwing himself at the ball but there's a hell of a lot of concentration that goes into reading the game, reacting and organising that he does well.Jones on the left of the three would be pretty disastrous. It was bad enough when he played him on the left of the two last season and that contributed to his confidence loss. He's not quick and he doesn't get out that well. You also really want your LCB to be left footed or at least have a solid understanding of playing on the left side because he's going to be spending a fair bit of time wider. I can't think of many defenders I'd less like to see filling in at full back than Jones. Gillesphey and Potts are useful because they're good LCBs in a three and decent tradtional left backs as well. I'd rather have either of them at LB than CB in a 4. That's particularly useful when you've got Thierry Small bombing on and playing very high. Gillesphey isn't the quickest and given what we'd heard I thought his passing would be better but his positioning off Small is really excellent a lot of the time. I think if you put Jones there in place of him you'd see just how much of a mess it would create very quickly.1 -
I'm a fan of Jones but but I think out best combi may be to move Mitchell into the middle of the 3 and have REG/Zac on the right.2
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You can ask the question but he's obviously not going to answer a confidential question about someone's employment contract.Mendonca In Asdas said:
If he’s not signed one by the end of December, he’ll either walk in the summer , or be sold in January, good question for Charlie and Gavin at Bromley Addicks.BigRedEvil said:Jones has been fine so far, will be interesting as the season goes on if they offer a new contract1 -
One advantage of playing REG is he can play both centre back and holding midfielder. It would mean we could switch between a 5-3-2 and a diamond midfield mid-game, without needing to use subs, as we used to do under Bowyer when Bielik would switch between the two.3
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This. We did it excellently at Wembley with Bielik moving into midfield. People credit the Sarr for Pearce sub with the change but I maintain it was the formation change that got us in control of the game.Exiled_Addick said:One advantage of playing REG is he can play both centre back and holding midfielder. It would mean we could switch between a 5-3-2 and a diamond midfield mid-game, without needing to use subs, as we used to do under Bowyer when Bielik would switch between the two.0 -
It’s how I see this team developing too. If we want to gain more control in games, if Jones wants fluency and a better quality of chance created, moving to a diamond is probably the best option we have.
What that means to the back 3, I am not entirely sure as Mitchell plays 100%, you would assume as does Jones. Would be unfair a little on Gillesphey and pushes Potts, REG and Zach Mitchell down the pecking order but if it gives us a better platform moving forward, so be it.
I also think that it would potentially work better once Edwards is fit again, mainly because Ramsay and Edwards help cover the central areas better if we wish to be compact.
Mannion
Ramsay Mitchell Jones Edwards
Coventry
Docherty A.Campbell
Berry/Anderson/Dixon/someone else?
Leaburn Godden
Aneke, TC, and a few others who aren’t in that 10 position can come on and change the game if needed.
Just my thinking and am sure Lloyd Jones would still be comfortable in that defence as he’s shown to be, on the whole, very good and very capable in that central centre back role.4 -
Doncaster first leg also, we were up against it until Bielik moved into midfield and then we started dominating the game and scored 2 pretty quicklycantersaddick said:
This. We did it excellently at Wembley with Bielik moving into midfield. People credit the Sarr for Pearce sub with the change but I maintain it was the formation change that got us in control of the game.Exiled_Addick said:One advantage of playing REG is he can play both centre back and holding midfielder. It would mean we could switch between a 5-3-2 and a diamond midfield mid-game, without needing to use subs, as we used to do under Bowyer when Bielik would switch between the two.1 -
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Congratulations to him - he’s been 99% excellent and a key part of any success that we might have this season.clive said:2 -
I probably balance out the error at Reading, where we were already a goal down, with the winner at Wigan.
I don't blame him for the excellent goal from Rotherham. Apart from those instances I think looking at the first five games overall, Lloyd Jones has been consistent, and our best player. I can't think of anybody who has the edge over him, although Mitchell and Ramsey possibly have a case.0 -
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I was just about to post that from twitter.
I wanted Piergianni for his aerial prowess, anc being a proper bruiser, who knew we had one at home the whole time.
Early doors, but Jones would have my vote for poty so far.0 -
Out of interest I've just had a look at Piergianni's stats. Obviously it's early doors and will slightly depend on opponents playstyles but he's only won 30 aerial duels and 41 overall duels at a 63.1% success rate. 1 block and 5 interceptions, can't find the stats for clearances.Braziliance said:I was just about to post that from twitter.
I wanted Piergianni for his aerial prowess, anc being a proper bruiser, who knew we had one at home the whole time.
Early doors, but Jones would have my vote for poty so far.
Had a look at their possession stats too, Jones pass accuracy is 71.7% compared to Pierianni's 60.1% and their long ball accuracy is within 3% of each other.
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bolloxbolder said:He's also earned us two points with his Wigan goal.
Plus we can add a good headed assist now at Shrewsbury by Lloyd Jones.2 -
I suppose what it comes down to is that while he was singled out for a couple of errors before, a lot of that is because he's stepping out to be proactive and make things happen.
When it works it's very good and probably does contribute to our good defence but when it goes wrong it can domino effect a bit.0 -
As someone who has spent the last three seasons hammering our CBs for errors, the ones being called out against Jones are not even errors in my book. He argued a throw and then the opposition broke 2 attackers against 5 defenders and should never have scored. The other one - he lost the ball and then 15 seconds later we're in our defensive shape and they scored from 25-yards. These aren't even registering on the Hector/Innis scale.thenewbie said:I suppose what it comes down to is that while he was singled out for a couple of errors before, a lot of that is because he's stepping out to be proactive and make things happen.
When it works it's very good and probably does contribute to our good defence but when it goes wrong it can domino effect a bit.9 -
Jones was brought in as a ball-playing defender in the middle of a back three. Unfortunately he was then asked to play with Ness and Thomas either side of him with Asiimwe and CBT as his wingbacks. Very little quality either side of him and a big gap in front of him because Dobson bless his heart was haring round trying to fix everything everywhere. That lasted two games before he was playing as the left-sided centre back in a 4 with the ghost of Tayo Edun as his left back and a badly regressed Lucas Ness to look after. Two games after that he was on the left of a back three with Elewere in the middle and Ness on the right for 45 minutes before switching back to LCB in a 4 with a midfield of Dobson, Anderson and Chem Campbell in front of him. Straight after that it was a new manager and a 433 again, this time with Hector, before yet another manager and yet more playing on the left in a 4. A brief switch to a 3421 under Appleton until he imploded against Northampton and Curtis Fleming put him out of his misery as much as possible for his two games. What I'm saying is that we broke his brain across that season and it's no wonder his confidence totally evaporated. When comfortable he looks like he wants to have the ball and do something with it but a season of being the fall guy every time we needed to change shape or strategy due to shit managers and subpar players absolutely destroyed him. What he needed to build himself back up was just to go full old school defender before anything else and it's worked perfectly. I'm glad he's getting some recognition now as it's east to forget what an absolutely miserable time he was given in his first year with us8
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He’s a good example of how it can be easy to write all players off in a bad team. I felt early on last season he could be a solid player for a club challenging for promotion but as his form dipped I started to doubt him more. When you put it like that not many players would be at their best.Garrymanilow said:Jones was brought in as a ball-playing defender in the middle of a back three. Unfortunately he was then asked to play with Ness and Thomas either side of him with Asiimwe and CBT as his wingbacks. Very little quality either side of him and a big gap in front of him because Dobson bless his heart was haring round trying to fix everything everywhere. That lasted two games before he was playing as the left-sided centre back in a 4 with the ghost of Tayo Edun as his left back and a badly regressed Lucas Ness to look after. Two games after that he was on the left of a back three with Elewere in the middle and Ness on the right for 45 minutes before switching back to LCB in a 4 with a midfield of Dobson, Anderson and Chem Campbell in front of him. Straight after that it was a new manager and a 433 again, this time with Hector, before yet another manager and yet more playing on the left in a 4. A brief switch to a 3421 under Appleton until he imploded against Northampton and Curtis Fleming put him out of his misery as much as possible for his two games. What I'm saying is that we broke his brain across that season and it's no wonder his confidence totally evaporated. When comfortable he looks like he wants to have the ball and do something with it but a season of being the fall guy every time we needed to change shape or strategy due to shit managers and subpar players absolutely destroyed him. What he needed to build himself back up was just to go full old school defender before anything else and it's worked perfectly. I'm glad he's getting some recognition now as it's east to forget what an absolutely miserable time he was given in his first year with us
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No panic plenty of timecafc4life said:Need to offer him a contract extension1 -
They’re all great points. The other thing that hadn’t been mentioned is that he came into that season with a lingering injury too, so didn’t get a full pre season eitherScoham said:
He’s a good example of how it can be easy to write all players off in a bad team. I felt early on last season he could be a solid player for a club challenging for promotion but as his form dipped I started to doubt him more. When you put it like that not many players would be at their best.Garrymanilow said:Jones was brought in as a ball-playing defender in the middle of a back three. Unfortunately he was then asked to play with Ness and Thomas either side of him with Asiimwe and CBT as his wingbacks. Very little quality either side of him and a big gap in front of him because Dobson bless his heart was haring round trying to fix everything everywhere. That lasted two games before he was playing as the left-sided centre back in a 4 with the ghost of Tayo Edun as his left back and a badly regressed Lucas Ness to look after. Two games after that he was on the left of a back three with Elewere in the middle and Ness on the right for 45 minutes before switching back to LCB in a 4 with a midfield of Dobson, Anderson and Chem Campbell in front of him. Straight after that it was a new manager and a 433 again, this time with Hector, before yet another manager and yet more playing on the left in a 4. A brief switch to a 3421 under Appleton until he imploded against Northampton and Curtis Fleming put him out of his misery as much as possible for his two games. What I'm saying is that we broke his brain across that season and it's no wonder his confidence totally evaporated. When comfortable he looks like he wants to have the ball and do something with it but a season of being the fall guy every time we needed to change shape or strategy due to shit managers and subpar players absolutely destroyed him. What he needed to build himself back up was just to go full old school defender before anything else and it's worked perfectly. I'm glad he's getting some recognition now as it's east to forget what an absolutely miserable time he was given in his first year with us0 -
Was anonymous last night.4
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