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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Blackpool: Saturday 21st September 2024: KO 15:00
Comments
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Agreed. But it might be more feasible to adopt a form of the "blood replacement" rule from Rugby. Then the ref could insist on an injured player being treated off the pitch whilst allowing a temporary substitution so that teams with genuine injuries are not unfairly penalised.JamesSeed said:
You’d need VAR to adjudicate in most instances. Very often the clutching the head thing only occurs when there’s a coming together, and it’s soften difficult to see 100% if there was contact or not. If a player goes down clutching his head when there’s clearly no contact then it can be treated as a dive and punished as such within the current rules.golfaddick said:
Thems the rules & I've been calling it out for years.Covered End said:
When every 5 minutes a player drops to the ground holding their head when there was no contact to their head.ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.
Its obvious. A player goes in for a tackle & comes off worse but there is no foul. Play goes on. Same situation but player goes down holding his head. Ref stops play.
Obvious what a manager would be telling his players to do. It's in the rules. The only way to change it is to change the rules. Or seriously punish the offending team. A red card might do the trick. Or bring in a "sin bin" and the player goes off for 10 mins. A tell you.....the practce would soon stop.
However, I think they should look at retrospective bans if video evidence shows blatant faking of a head injury. Retrospective red card, meaning a three match ban. I believe that could be effective.I don’t believe play should continue while players receive treatment. Football is a much faster moving game than rugby, and it would endanger players and physios.1 -
Well, their other players shouldn’t cry wolf then. I’ve never seen a game with so players feigning injury. Even on the rare occasion when the ref was not having it, the player quickly got to his feet pretending to shake off the fake knock.PragueAddick said:
Exactly, thats the problem. Very late on we were giving dogs abuse to the latest Blackpool player to fake an injury in their penalty area. Stretcher called but he doesnt need it. But in fact he goes off straight down the tunnel - and didnt that reduce them to 10 men?ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.3 -
No I don’t think that injury did, that happened later on with a different player.PragueAddick said:
Exactly, thats the problem. Very late on we were giving dogs abuse to the latest Blackpool player to fake an injury in their penalty area. Stretcher called but he doesnt need it. But in fact he goes off straight down the tunnel - and didnt that reduce them to 10 men?ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.It may even been the case that he was about to be subbed, so milked it. It looked to me like he was grinning knowingly at Charlton fans while he walked along in front of the Covered End.0 -
My solution: when the ref indicates a head injury then the physio must bring on a neck brace and the player be stretchered off and examined (for concussion) by a head trauma specialist.TellyTubby said:
Continue play as the player receives attention as in rugby.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
Bit harder to do that with the goalie but would make it more interesting.
That should take about 10 minutes and stop the faking!5 -
The problem is that football managers will 100% take advantage of that to gain an extra substitution. Doesn't matter in rugby because you are allowed so many anywayDavo55 said:
Agreed. But it might be more feasible to adopt a form of the "blood replacement" rule from Rugby. Then the ref could insist on an injured player being treated off the pitch whilst allowing a temporary substitution so that teams with genuine injuries are not unfairly penalised.JamesSeed said:
You’d need VAR to adjudicate in most instances. Very often the clutching the head thing only occurs when there’s a coming together, and it’s soften difficult to see 100% if there was contact or not. If a player goes down clutching his head when there’s clearly no contact then it can be treated as a dive and punished as such within the current rules.golfaddick said:
Thems the rules & I've been calling it out for years.Covered End said:
When every 5 minutes a player drops to the ground holding their head when there was no contact to their head.ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.
Its obvious. A player goes in for a tackle & comes off worse but there is no foul. Play goes on. Same situation but player goes down holding his head. Ref stops play.
Obvious what a manager would be telling his players to do. It's in the rules. The only way to change it is to change the rules. Or seriously punish the offending team. A red card might do the trick. Or bring in a "sin bin" and the player goes off for 10 mins. A tell you.....the practce would soon stop.
However, I think they should look at retrospective bans if video evidence shows blatant faking of a head injury. Retrospective red card, meaning a three match ban. I believe that could be effective.I don’t believe play should continue while players receive treatment. Football is a much faster moving game than rugby, and it would endanger players and physios.0 -
Pretty sure that was a grimace, he went down the tunnel with a dislocated shoulder which they popped back in before he came out againJamesSeed said:
No I don’t think that injury did, that happened later on with a different player.PragueAddick said:
Exactly, thats the problem. Very late on we were giving dogs abuse to the latest Blackpool player to fake an injury in their penalty area. Stretcher called but he doesnt need it. But in fact he goes off straight down the tunnel - and didnt that reduce them to 10 men?ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.It may even been the case that he was about to be subbed, so milked it. It looked to me like he was grinning knowingly at Charlton fans while he walked along in front of the Covered End.0 -
Could well be wrong here, but don’t they often celebrate at the furthest point away from the centre circle as a way to waste more time? They took an age to trudge back for the kickoff , and I’ve seen other clubs doing the same at The Valley when they score a goal that puts them in front. I think we do it as well.Davo55 said:
No problem with him celebrating, Large, jut that I thought he was out of order running over and giving it to the Covered End and the NW quadrant. That was unnecessary in my opinion, and especially so after he got a very warm round of applause twice when his name was read out.LargeAddick said:
I disagree about Albie’s celebration. He used to get plenty of stick whilst with us so why shouldn’t he give it back? I’ve always thought this ‘shouldn’t celebrate against a former team’ a load of old bollocks. You should always celebrate irrespective of the opposition because a) you have scored a goal and b) because the fans of your current club, who now pay your wages, should expect you to celebrate scoring a goal for them.Davo55 said:PWR
A deeply frustrating afternoon at The Valley.
Out-pressed and out-played by Blackpool in the first half. We were non-existent as an attacking force and a comedic Ahadme own goal and a long range scuffed shot by Albie Morgan gave us a mountain to climb. And that is why some of us have been vocal about our lack of attacking threat. If our usual defensive strength deserts us, as it did today, we stand little chance of competing at the top of the table.
By the way, classless of Morgan to celebrate quite so directly in front of the fans that had given him a nice welcome back. He wont be so kindly received next time around.
Decisive action from Nathan Jones was called for, and duly taken - although you had to feel sorry for Thierry Small being the tactical fall guy when many others were far worse than him in the first period. The second half was better, but still over reliant on long balls and whenever we built up a bit of momentum Blackpool's "tactics" of feigning or exaggerating injuries took the wind out of our sails. Steve Bruce is a canny operator and his team no doubt followed his instructions but the referee really should have found a way of discerning between genuine and pretend injuries and taken firmer action to stop it. It became farcical.
In the end, we could have gained an unlikely draw or even a win. A bad miss by Lloyd Jones, a header just over from Chuks and a shot wide from Godden when we had players queueing up to convert a cross were all wasted opportunities.
TC made a huge difference and NJ needs to find a way to get the very best out of his pace and skill. He is far more at home and dangerous on the flanks than he is playing as second striker.
Finally, time I think to rest Ahadme. He is decent at holding the ball up and challenging in the air but his limitations are holding the team back now. I'm not writing him off but persevering with him when he is so obviously bereft of form and confidence isn't doing him or the team any good.
Work to do, Nathan Jones.
I did think today was a typical Albie performance, about as effective as Docherty was for us.0 -
Until yesterday I have given NJ my unwavering support. However, two decisions yesterday were, for me, red flags. Omitting Mitchell from the centre back pairing was utterly incomprehensible. If it's true Mitchell was match fit then his omission was unforgivable and tantamount to shooting oneself in the foot. The second decision was substituting Small ahead of Campbell or even Docherty. Playing Campbell essentially reduced us to playing with just 10 men until he was removed from the field play. Sadly he was both feeble and woeful and is clearly not ready for 1st Team football. Only wins against Stevenage and Birmingham will restore my faith in this team and the manager.2
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If he’s genuinely injured how would he get off the pitch though? Can see getting him off the pitch wasting even more time while they bring on the stretcher etc. Then you have subs taking their time getting ready to come onDavo55 said:
Agreed. But it might be more feasible to adopt a form of the "blood replacement" rule from Rugby. Then the ref could insist on an injured player being treated off the pitch whilst allowing a temporary substitution so that teams with genuine injuries are not unfairly penalised.JamesSeed said:
You’d need VAR to adjudicate in most instances. Very often the clutching the head thing only occurs when there’s a coming together, and it’s soften difficult to see 100% if there was contact or not. If a player goes down clutching his head when there’s clearly no contact then it can be treated as a dive and punished as such within the current rules.golfaddick said:
Thems the rules & I've been calling it out for years.Covered End said:
When every 5 minutes a player drops to the ground holding their head when there was no contact to their head.ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.
Its obvious. A player goes in for a tackle & comes off worse but there is no foul. Play goes on. Same situation but player goes down holding his head. Ref stops play.
Obvious what a manager would be telling his players to do. It's in the rules. The only way to change it is to change the rules. Or seriously punish the offending team. A red card might do the trick. Or bring in a "sin bin" and the player goes off for 10 mins. A tell you.....the practce would soon stop.
However, I think they should look at retrospective bans if video evidence shows blatant faking of a head injury. Retrospective red card, meaning a three match ban. I believe that could be effective.I don’t believe play should continue while players receive treatment. Football is a much faster moving game than rugby, and it would endanger players and physios.0 -
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Only thing worse than watching our shit performance, the time wasting and shit refereeing was Brownie telling everyone to not moan about any of it, whilst moaning about it all himself the whole way through.
Love Brownie and do think he makes a lot of sense as a pundit, but he's no co-commentator, especially as he's meant to be slightly bias in his role for Charlton TV
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As everyone says outplayed in midfield. Lee Evans ran the show for them.But turning point could be seen as Ahadme’s decision to prevent a goal kick!
As for dropping Mitchell! My God!0 -
Wasn’t able to watch the game yesterday, but reading through this seems like maybe I dodged a bullet. Despite our good start, it’s now 4 points from the last 4 games, which is poor.Need a response next week and an away win heading into a tough October fixture list, otherwise we could be well adrift by the start of November.1
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Totally agree Golfie but this is where it all gets very mucky. If the the Referee doesn't follow the directive the Manager, in this case Steve Bruce, will start a fire in accusing the Referee of not following the directive and putting his players at risk of concussion or worse, the fourth official will get pelters from Steve Bruce and the adjudicator in the stand starts writing a report as to the Referee not following the directive.I've not seen any team use that tactic in the way Steve Bruce's team did yesterday but I'm sure there have been lots of individual instances, but I have sympathy for Referees in applying this ruling because the first time it's ignored and the player actually does have a serious head injury, the Referee could end up in court. The directive,in my opinion is correct, but it takes a piss poor manager such as Steve Bruce to actually devalue the reasons for it and use it as a tactic.golfaddick said:
Thems the rules & I've been calling it out for years.Covered End said:
When every 5 minutes a player drops to the ground holding their head when there was no contact to their head.ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.
Its obvious. A player goes in for a tackle & comes off worse but there is no foul. Play goes on. Same situation but player goes down holding his head. Ref stops play.
Obvious what a manager would be telling his players to do. It's in the rules. The only way to change it is to change the rules. Or seriously punish the offending team. A red card might do the trick. Or bring in a "sin bin" and the player goes off for 10 mins. A tell you.....the practce would soon stop.0 -
II usually go to about 10 games a season.This year bought a season ticket for the first time since prem days.As I am now over 65 the price was good (235)and it saves the hassle of queueing up also I was hopeful of a promotion push.
I have been to all 4 home league games and have been in the "a win is a win" camp despite the dire quality of the football.Yesterday confirmed all of my worst fears that it is unlikely that a genuine promotion push is going to materialise A couple of main reasons 1/we don't have a centre forward(until leaburn comes back) 2/ no creativity in midfield .
To label the football in the first few games as "turgid" in my view accurately describes the experience which is OK if you win but turgid football in the third tier accompanied by a defeat really is soul destroying.I am not one to cast doom and gloom after one defeat but it is the nature of the performances and the narrowness of the victories over orient Wigan and Shrewsbury that leads me to believe that an 8th place finish is favorite.i hope I am wrong
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Have not read the thread yet.
In case it hasn’t been mentioned the Alex Mitchell situation is that he wasn’t in the line up released at 2pm and wasn’t part of the usual warm up.
He was put through his paces as it were around 1-1.30 and looked rough then, as observed through the crossbars window. Around that time non playing squad members (usually three) are ‘warmed down’ in their kit on the pitch, they’re presumably required on match days to cover situations like the Alex Mitchell one.
Mitchell wasn’t injured in the normal pre match warm up, looked rough before the game and wasn’t played, but wasn’t dropped.
The defeat was hard to take but the truth is yesterday Blackpool were better and deserved to win despite instances in the match.
We went from a one point cushion to being two points behind (my) target but that can be sorted by winning at Stevenage. Stevenage becomes a must win for me, followed by a must not lose at Bristol Rovers. If we win them both we take a two point cushion into the Birmingham game.
The referee yesterday was very poor. When I trained as a referee we were advised to ‘make eight yard decisions’ which adds up to keeping up with play. The referee yesterday wasn’t keeping up with play enough, maybe depending on his assistants, but the speed he gave fouls (and bookings) suggested he was a lone wolf.
However the 12 additional minutes at least meant he added the shithousery time on. I would like to know what else he could have done about the Blackpool feigned injury, bring on the stretcher, shithousery other than adding the time on. Of course the going down like flies behaviour disrupted our rhythm a lot.
I think he missed at least one penalty.To blame the ref for losing would be easy, but two second half moments were telling. One when Blackpool hit the inside of the post and we got a let off, and a great save from their keeper second half.
Our crowd undeservedly booed Albie Morgan which I thought pathetic, but perhaps not as pathetic as the performance of our invisible captain and leader Docherty. Lloyd Jones is clearly best placed to be captain.
Tyreece Campbell was our best player, at least he has the pace and the diddle to get past opponents.
Must win next Saturday at Stevenage, and Nathan Jones has a tricky selection to make.9 -
Is Charles Breakspear a Palace supporter? Born in Surrey, and we nearly always lose when he referees.
I know we lost that without the ref's help by our own uselessness first half, but really that was awful.
What is really galling is that there will be no comeback on him. There's no accountability for referees and they have a big impact. The question is whether he's incompetent or bent? Either way I don't think we can ever get a fair game if he's refereeing.4 -
Jeez, is that what happened? I thought he’d gone permanently and they had already used 5 subs. But by that point I had already lost my mind with rage…Callumcafc said:
For all of about 30 seconds because when they realised they couldn’t replace him, they put him back on the pitch.PragueAddick said:
Exactly, thats the problem. Very late on we were giving dogs abuse to the latest Blackpool player to fake an injury in their penalty area. Stretcher called but he doesnt need it. But in fact he goes off straight down the tunnel - and didnt that reduce them to 10 men?ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.1 -
I wonder if there's more to it with Mitchell than just simply dropping him for tactical reasons. Makes me wonder if they've had some kind of argument. I'm probably reading too much into it but i'm not buying the 'tactical reasons' excuse.
I'm sure we'd all agree that our defence is the one area of the side that doesn't really need changing, never mind dropping the centre back who has arguably been our best defender. Really baffling why you'd do that unless you're Pep and have 4 top class centre backs to rotate.
Whatever the reason i hope Jones sorts it out for the next game.8 -
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I have just read that Jones left out Mitchell for tactical reasons so I was wrong about what I thought had happened as written above.
If Jones wanted tactical change yesterday he should have looked at the midfield, not at dropping a player who has been one of our best so far this season.
Anyway, apologies, I read the Mitchell situation wrongly yesterday.2 -
Sort of, dislocated shoulder so they took him to the dressing room to pop it back inPragueAddick said:
Jeez, is that what happened? I thought he’d gone permanently and they had already used 5 subs. But by that point I had already lost my mind with rage…Callumcafc said:
For all of about 30 seconds because when they realised they couldn’t replace him, they put him back on the pitch.PragueAddick said:
Exactly, thats the problem. Very late on we were giving dogs abuse to the latest Blackpool player to fake an injury in their penalty area. Stretcher called but he doesnt need it. But in fact he goes off straight down the tunnel - and didnt that reduce them to 10 men?ForeverAddickted said:
Just curious, but how do you know when an injury is fake?Covered End said:
No change of rules needed.PragueAddick said:
It was 13.48. And should have been 15. More shithousery after the 12 were announced.aliwibble said:How on earth did we end up with 12 mins of added time second half?But as @seth plum, sitting behind me said, how do you change the rules to stop it?
The ref should have had a word with their captain and told them to cut it out or he would
a) ignore their feigning injury and
b) he would start yellow carding them.
I recall in The Prem v Leicester when Steve Brown was injured after he fouled their player.
The ref waited and then showed him a red card.0 -
Jonea said we were too passive. If they were told to be on the front foot, why did this not happen.
After all, this simple instruction should have been ringing in there ears as they took the pitch.0 -
I thought their number 9 was a shit of the highest order, and needed a good clip around the ear, unless he's scared how fast the earth spins or something the amount of time he was laying down clinging on to it holding his head in terror and pain.1
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Surely Mitchell was injured and not dropped ?0
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Much as I agree the ref was inept and crap and missed the clear handball...the way things were going we would probably have put the ball in row z in The Covered End...🙄
Just win at Stevenage and we go again, but yesterday's weird lacklustre non performance must never be allowed to be repeated again...3 -
Callumcafc said:
That Charlie Kirk is one of the biggest cowards I've ever seen on a football pitch in a charlton shirt. Bottler of the highest order and did nothing when he had ample chances. Keep posting emojis like a teenage girl though, bellend.
Morgan was given lots of chances, was generally well supported and only got a pass because of the 'one of our own nonsense' which his over exhuberent celebration shows he clearly isnt despite getting a welcome reception pre game.
I''ll let Payne off as he'll probably mature when he reaches puberty.
Dont even know who the other non entity is.19 -
There will be plenty of games like yesterday throughout the season. Turning what was an awful lower mid table squad into a promotion winning one is rarely a one season job. I thought at the start of the season and still now, we will have done very well to come 6th given how far off it we are last season. I would like to see Jones play more attacking, even in the same 3-5-2 system. Ahadme is winning the long balls up but it's pointless as the midfield is nowhere to be seen to challenge for them, leaving the other striker battling 4 defenders hoping to get on the end of it. Additionally, Ahadme's clear strength is heading but Small and Ramsay are not getting forward anywhere near enough to cross it, whilst Doherty and A Campbell are very central and offer no pace should they be out on the wing.
I thought the strength of Jones' Luton team were the wingbacks so I'd like to see more from them going forward, otherwise our games will continue to follow the same pattern of keeping it tight, lumping it up and hoping to nick a scrappy goal. All it takes is one first half goal from the opposition to make the gameplan null and void and we saw yesterday when Blackpool took the lead our shape fell to pieces, and they easily got another.3 -
oohaahmortimer said:Callumcafc said:Ref can’t even claim his view was obstructed. A clear handball and I am shocked he didn’t blow for it given he was so happy to blow for nearly everything else.
I wasn’t at the game and haven’t seen the incident but the Blackpool player is facing the wrong way , good save like Amos’s (think it was him) at Shrewsbury in the play off.
I was 10 feet away right behind the goal. It was a penalty. And I went truly apoplectic in the way only a rapidly balding middle aged man who realised he's not fulfilled his life dreams and will be working until mid 70s can.
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Just winning at Stevenage isn't enough. And yesterday's 'performance' was a repeat in most respects of what we have seen in previous games (Bolton being the exception I think). The fear seems to be for most, on here at least, that the issues are deeper and the chickens are now coming home if not roosting already.eastterrace6168 said:Much as I agree the ref was inept and crap and missed the clear handball...the way things were going we would probably have put the ball in row z in The Covered End...🙄
Just win at Stevenage and we go again, but yesterday's weird lacklustre non performance must never be allowed to be repeated again...5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NMcb9RuraI
