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Electric Cars
Comments
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Depending on the year those ecoboost engines are doomed to fail. The wall thickness between the coolant lines and the cylinder wall is insufficient and the block cracks. The engines were redesigned in 2017 to fix the issue.1
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And me. Surprised at your stance on this, SHG. On the other hand, it only needs 10-15 mins for the loo, and at our age, mate, some stretching exercises. Try it, you’ll notice the difference. Where I am with you is that 40 mins or more, even assuming you get straight to a free spot, is too long. That’s why I have a new PHEV, not an EV. Oh and another reason is, if I need a re-charge, it’s usually in Germany where the charging points usually operate on some completely impenetrable system only known to locals. When I give up in bafflement, or because the debit card couldn’t connect to the payment system due to their ropey internet, I thank the heavens I have a PHEV. Anyone got any experience with charging in Germany? I must be doing something wrong.ShootersHillGuru said:
You then ?Chizz said:
You'd lose that betShootersHillGuru said:
I don’t know many people that would follow that advice. Basically it’s bollocks, that why. I bet there is not a single poster on this thread that does.Chizz said:
The Highway Code recommends a "minimum break of at least 15 minutes after every two hours of driving". Drivers having to stop to recharge their car, as well as themselves, is a good thing.ShootersHillGuru said:
The journey time for me from Leeds to London is under four hours. I certainly don’t need to stop because I’m tired. In fact stopping for forty five minutes would make little difference to my level of tiredness if I was stupid enough to drive in that condition.Chizz said:
Fewer people driving long-distances in one hit, tired, would be a good thingfollett said:
It definitely does cause a hassle if you wouldn't ordinarily stop as it does add a fair bit of journey time on. You would be able to charge at the house as they can be charged with a standard 3 point plug but it depends how long you stay for. They charge slowly and wouldn't do much damage if you were only there a few hoursShootersHillGuru said:
Not to detract from the excellent information in your post but I never stop for a coffee or a break when driving Leeds to London. Having to do so would really irritate me. Also when I get to London on my regular visits to visit my father in law I couldn’t charge my EV at his house. Having to drive to somewhere and spend the time doing so would also irritate me. Sounds like I’m just creating problems where there are none but at this point an EV is not for me.colthe3rd said:
I did a road trip in a Renault Zoe at Christmas 2022, went from south London to Manchester and then Liverpool and then back. The range of those is only about 170 at motorway speeds and in the cold. Never had an issue with a stop off at a service station for a quick break, grab a coffee, came back and I'd enough charge to get me to through the next leg. I've got a bigger EV now with a much longer range so it would be even easier, I think Tesla's charge from about 20% to 80% in around 30 minutes using on of their superchargers, depending on the model that's around 180 miles in the time it takes to stop off for a quick break and a drink.ShootersHillGuru said:Of course most of my journeys like most people are local so no big deal if I decided to get an EV. However I’m based in West Yorkshire so for family and other reasons I return to SE London on a reasonably regular basis. If my EV gave me 200 miles it wouldn’t get me there. Another full charge wouldn’t get me home. Might sound a bit daft but that alone puts me in two minds.
Obviously really long distances for EVs at the moment are a slight issue as it will add some time to a journey but if you're traveling the length of the country you're probably stopping for a break anyway so the additional time then is minimal.0 -
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I think the redesign was 2019, not 2017? Either way, they still have a wet Cambelt so the cambelt issue continues to be an issue.cafcnick1992 said:Depending on the year those ecoboost engines are doomed to fail. The wall thickness between the coolant lines and the cylinder wall is insufficient and the block cracks. The engines were redesigned in 2017 to fix the issue.0 -
Re electric cars, I still think the technology needs to progress before I jump in. I’d also need to dig up the front garden so that I don’t have to park on the street and able to charge at home.2 -
Annual Road Tax will be applied to EV's from April according to BBC lunch time news. No details how much it will be. Also London Conngeston charge will be applied in 2026.1
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Seeing as heavier cars damage roads I think this is fair. I think if we warp forwards twenty years, there will be hydrogen cars, bio petrol cars and electric cars. I am a logical sort of guy and there is no logic from what I can see for electric cars to be so big. The cost of producing one of these enviromentally can't be better than people keeping their petrol cars longer. Well if it can, nobody seems to be trying to explain it.Darty Valiant said:
Re electric cars, I still think the technology needs to progress before I jump in. I’d also need to dig up the front garden so that I don’t have to park on the street and able to charge at home.
Also I see Elon Musk, electric car producer is supporting Trump, climate change denier in the US elections. I also recall being told to get a diesel and finding out the contaminants the engines produced were knowingly fiddled by comapnies that are now producing electric cars. My position will change when I can trust what I am being told.0 -
For
1) cheap to run
Against
1) battery life about 8 years
2) batteries expensive to replace
3) batteries occasionally tend to explode like a series of grenades
4) there is no infrastructure to dispose of the toxic chemicals in duff batteries
5) the extra weight is destroying our roads
6) they are currently free of RFL, reducing income for road projects
7) you cant hear them, so increased risk of RTAs
8) electricity production still well short of 50% renewables.
9) the UK has no vehicle battery production despite many promises
10) they are not pollution free. Rubber dust due to weight, road damage above, toxic chemicals above, short battery life and dear replacement makes them less of a long term vehicle.
11) they are more expensive than conventional vehicles.
12) Elon Musk & Tesla
13) lack of charging infra-structure which is hellishly expensive and not everyone can park their car on a driveway
14) 2nd hand market will eventually be flooded with duff cars and bought by gullible punters who will overpay for an obsolete vehicle
15) most of the above are going to bite cash strapped councils, running electric buses on the arse.3 -
Had my first EV for about three months now, and very happy with it, charge once a week with the help of our solar panels, range hasn't been a problem although I do less than 300 miles a week.2
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I'm sure I remember you writing a similar list denouncing the early ICE vehicles and in favour of keeping your horse and cart. Am I correct ?Gisappointed said:For
1) cheap to run
Against
1) battery life about 8 years
2) batteries expensive to replace
3) batteries occasionally tend to explode like a series of grenades
4) there is no infrastructure to dispose of the toxic chemicals in duff batteries
5) the extra weight is destroying our roads
6) they are currently free of RFL, reducing income for road projects
7) you cant hear them, so increased risk of RTAs
8) electricity production still well short of 50% renewables.
9) the UK has no vehicle battery production despite many promises
10) they are not pollution free. Rubber dust due to weight, road damage above, toxic chemicals above, short battery life and dear replacement makes them less of a long term vehicle.
11) they are more expensive than conventional vehicles.
12) Elon Musk & Tesla
13) lack of charging infra-structure which is hellishly expensive and not everyone can park their car on a driveway
14) 2nd hand market will eventually be flooded with duff cars and bought by gullible punters who will overpay for an obsolete vehicle
15) most of the above are going to bite cash strapped councils, running electric buses on the arse.
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Seems unlikey. In the late 1800s London was inundated with horse crap and horse carcasses. Fortunately, the ICE came along and made London clean again. https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/Hex said:
I'm sure I remember you writing a similar list denouncing the early ICE vehicles and in favour of keeping your horse and cart. Am I correct ?Gisappointed said:For
1) cheap to run
Against
1) battery life about 8 years
2) batteries expensive to replace
3) batteries occasionally tend to explode like a series of grenades
4) there is no infrastructure to dispose of the toxic chemicals in duff batteries
5) the extra weight is destroying our roads
6) they are currently free of RFL, reducing income for road projects
7) you cant hear them, so increased risk of RTAs
8) electricity production still well short of 50% renewables.
9) the UK has no vehicle battery production despite many promises
10) they are not pollution free. Rubber dust due to weight, road damage above, toxic chemicals above, short battery life and dear replacement makes them less of a long term vehicle.
11) they are more expensive than conventional vehicles.
12) Elon Musk & Tesla
13) lack of charging infra-structure which is hellishly expensive and not everyone can park their car on a driveway
14) 2nd hand market will eventually be flooded with duff cars and bought by gullible punters who will overpay for an obsolete vehicle
15) most of the above are going to bite cash strapped councils, running electric buses on the arse.0 -
This is as laughable as the comments earlier in the thread about cyclists being a menace and requiring compulsory third party insuranceGisappointed said:For
1) cheap to run
Against
1) battery life about 8 years
2) batteries expensive to replace
3) batteries occasionally tend to explode like a series of grenades
4) there is no infrastructure to dispose of the toxic chemicals in duff batteries
5) the extra weight is destroying our roads
6) they are currently free of RFL, reducing income for road projects
7) you cant hear them, so increased risk of RTAs
8) electricity production still well short of 50% renewables.
9) the UK has no vehicle battery production despite many promises
10) they are not pollution free. Rubber dust due to weight, road damage above, toxic chemicals above, short battery life and dear replacement makes them less of a long term vehicle.
11) they are more expensive than conventional vehicles.
12) Elon Musk & Tesla
13) lack of charging infra-structure which is hellishly expensive and not everyone can park their car on a driveway
14) 2nd hand market will eventually be flooded with duff cars and bought by gullible punters who will overpay for an obsolete vehicle
15) most of the above are going to bite cash strapped councils, running electric buses on the arse.2 -
At last, an objective, well-balanced perspective with no noticeable bias.Gisappointed said:For
1) cheap to run
Against
1) battery life about 8 years
2) batteries expensive to replace
3) batteries occasionally tend to explode like a series of grenades
4) there is no infrastructure to dispose of the toxic chemicals in duff batteries
5) the extra weight is destroying our roads
6) they are currently free of RFL, reducing income for road projects
7) you cant hear them, so increased risk of RTAs
8) electricity production still well short of 50% renewables.
9) the UK has no vehicle battery production despite many promises
10) they are not pollution free. Rubber dust due to weight, road damage above, toxic chemicals above, short battery life and dear replacement makes them less of a long term vehicle.
11) they are more expensive than conventional vehicles.
12) Elon Musk & Tesla
13) lack of charging infra-structure which is hellishly expensive and not everyone can park their car on a driveway
14) 2nd hand market will eventually be flooded with duff cars and bought by gullible punters who will overpay for an obsolete vehicle
15) most of the above are going to bite cash strapped councils, running electric buses on the arse.7 -
As a fire-fighter they terrify me. There are cleaner alternatives out there as well. Lithium batteries are like carrying a phosphorus bomb around in your pocket one fault and they ignite and eventually go off like a flame thrower, so strapping a few hundred to the bottom of your car is insanity. Nobody not even the car manufacturers can tell you the best way to put out one of the batteries when on fire. They burn under water and can reignite up to a few days after initially going out. Having attended a Tesla alight a few years ago, thermal runaway and safety precautions should be included in the owners manual. Also charging points should be only in the open air and a good distance from any other property, the fact they are charged overnight adjacent to houses people are sleeping in is crazy.5
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cfgs said:As a fire-fighter they terrify me. There are cleaner alternatives out there as well. Lithium batteries are like carrying a phosphorus bomb around in your pocket one fault and they ignite and eventually go off like a flame thrower, so strapping a few hundred to the bottom of your car is insanity. Nobody not even the car manufacturers can tell you the best way to put out one of the batteries when on fire. They burn under water and can reignite up to a few days after initially going out. Having attended a Tesla alight a few years ago, thermal runaway and safety precautions should be included in the owners manual. Also charging points should be only in the open air and a good distance from any other property, the fact they are charged overnight adjacent to houses people are sleeping in is crazy.
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Had an EV for 3.5 years, Hyundai Kona, 170 mile distance. We are a 1 car family. Sent it back to lease company this week and bought a hybrid. Reasons are
1. the infra in this country is woeful. 10s of occasions left short due to not working / full charging units
2. As a single car family, 170 miles not enough. 4/5 times a year long journey is painful and slow. 1 hour stop to charge to get to east Devon (for instance)
3. It’s just too stressful planning due to both of above points. Driving should be fun(ish) not a war of attrition with charger suppliers.4 -
Whilst that is statistically sound, give it 15 years or so until we have cheap EVs that have been badly maintained on our roads (if any last that long). It isn't the probability of fire, it is the actual fire that is the problem, far more destructive and as yer nobody has worked out how to put them out. In some parts of Europe they submerge them in shipping containers, but Tesla say this might lead to an explosion. EV motor sport simply leave them surrounded by large concrete blocks to burnout, not returning to move them for a few days.Leroy Ambrose said:cfgs said:As a fire-fighter they terrify me. There are cleaner alternatives out there as well. Lithium batteries are like carrying a phosphorus bomb around in your pocket one fault and they ignite and eventually go off like a flame thrower, so strapping a few hundred to the bottom of your car is insanity. Nobody not even the car manufacturers can tell you the best way to put out one of the batteries when on fire. They burn under water and can reignite up to a few days after initially going out. Having attended a Tesla alight a few years ago, thermal runaway and safety precautions should be included in the owners manual. Also charging points should be only in the open air and a good distance from any other property, the fact they are charged overnight adjacent to houses people are sleeping in is crazy.0 -
These were the reasons I decided I wouldn’t be buying an EV, about 5 years ago (until these matters are addressed).BalladMan said:Had an EV for 3.5 years, Hyundai Kona, 170 mile distance. We are a 1 car family. Sent it back to lease company this week and bought a hybrid. Reasons are
1. the infra in this country is woeful. 10s of occasions left short due to not working / full charging units
2. As a single car family, 170 miles not enough. 4/5 times a year long journey is painful and slow. 1 hour stop to charge to get to east Devon (for instance)
3. It’s just too stressful planning due to both of above points. Driving should be fun(ish) not a war of attrition with charger suppliers.2 -
It’s a shame they have not been addressed in 5 years, but my anecdotal evidence is that it is getting worse. More EVs, nowhere near enough new 50Kwh+ chargers to cope.Covered End said:
These were the reasons I decided I wouldn’t be buying an EV, about 5 years ago (until these matters are addressed).BalladMan said:Had an EV for 3.5 years, Hyundai Kona, 170 mile distance. We are a 1 car family. Sent it back to lease company this week and bought a hybrid. Reasons are
1. the infra in this country is woeful. 10s of occasions left short due to not working / full charging units
2. As a single car family, 170 miles not enough. 4/5 times a year long journey is painful and slow. 1 hour stop to charge to get to east Devon (for instance)
3. It’s just too stressful planning due to both of above points. Driving should be fun(ish) not a war of attrition with charger suppliers.If I had the need for 2 cars, would be ok as a 2nd local runner.1 -
How does charging an ev near a house compare in safety to using a deep far drier ?cfgs said:As a fire-fighter they terrify me. There are cleaner alternatives out there as well. Lithium batteries are like carrying a phosphorus bomb around in your pocket one fault and they ignite and eventually go off like a flame thrower, so strapping a few hundred to the bottom of your car is insanity. Nobody not even the car manufacturers can tell you the best way to put out one of the batteries when on fire. They burn under water and can reignite up to a few days after initially going out. Having attended a Tesla alight a few years ago, thermal runaway and safety precautions should be included in the owners manual. Also charging points should be only in the open air and a good distance from any other property, the fact they are charged overnight adjacent to houses people are sleeping in is crazy.1 -
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To be honest in 31 years I have been to one chip pan fryer alight and two EV cars alight. In the same time about 60 petrol/diesel cars, but about 75% of those were torched. My comment about the charging was about it happening, whilst people are asleep, nobody uses a fryer whilst asleep. Plus we are trained how to put those out, in fact it is a simple process.stevexreeve said:
How does charging an ev near a house compare in safety to using a deep far drier ?cfgs said:As a fire-fighter they terrify me. There are cleaner alternatives out there as well. Lithium batteries are like carrying a phosphorus bomb around in your pocket one fault and they ignite and eventually go off like a flame thrower, so strapping a few hundred to the bottom of your car is insanity. Nobody not even the car manufacturers can tell you the best way to put out one of the batteries when on fire. They burn under water and can reignite up to a few days after initially going out. Having attended a Tesla alight a few years ago, thermal runaway and safety precautions should be included in the owners manual. Also charging points should be only in the open air and a good distance from any other property, the fact they are charged overnight adjacent to houses people are sleeping in is crazy.0 -
Never written about sleighs, Santa, toboggans, snowmobiles, bobsleighs, luges or skeleton.Hex said:
I'm sure I remember you writing a similar list denouncing the early ICE vehicles and in favour of keeping your horse and cart. Am I correct ?Gisappointed said:For
1) cheap to run
Against
1) battery life about 8 years
2) batteries expensive to replace
3) batteries occasionally tend to explode like a series of grenades
4) there is no infrastructure to dispose of the toxic chemicals in duff batteries
5) the extra weight is destroying our roads
6) they are currently free of RFL, reducing income for road projects
7) you cant hear them, so increased risk of RTAs
8) electricity production still well short of 50% renewables.
9) the UK has no vehicle battery production despite many promises
10) they are not pollution free. Rubber dust due to weight, road damage above, toxic chemicals above, short battery life and dear replacement makes them less of a long term vehicle.
11) they are more expensive than conventional vehicles.
12) Elon Musk & Tesla
13) lack of charging infra-structure which is hellishly expensive and not everyone can park their car on a driveway
14) 2nd hand market will eventually be flooded with duff cars and bought by gullible punters who will overpay for an obsolete vehicle
15) most of the above are going to bite cash strapped councils, running electric buses on the arse.
I uphold my freedom to fart whenever I want.0 -
Even if I put aside my gripes about the weight of them, the range, lack of charging and time taken to charge, knowing that the powers that be will jack the price of charging right up and my genuine concern over the longevity of them. Ive driven a few now including some vehicles at work and I cant question things like the acceleration or the handling, for the vans. I dont like the synthetic noise and lack of cylinders
What I really don't like is the access to freedom is the same for me with a big, German saloon is the same as some dude in Bangalore with a rickshaw/tuk-tuk. Thats soon to stop. Because of the speed of technology development and legit range anxiety with EVs the used market is dead for them. Not to mention the fear of something going badly wrong with them or more specifically the batteries. I'm a lapsed petrol-head and the lack of 90s hot hatches or vehicles from that time makes me sad, what makes it worse is they won't be coming back. ⁸888
Fair play to anyone who is strapped up with one, has one leased through work or whatever. I don't think I'm ready for that much debt in a very much still developing technology where the start prices are so high
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Although I'm very much doing what I can to reduce my carbon footprint, having read all about concerns with EV's on here and elsewhere, I'd rather not switch to one until satisfied with their affordability, safety, reliability and longevity. I'm not nearing car replacement time anyway at the moment, but if I was exchanging tomorrow, I'd be looking for a *small, second hand petrol one averaging more than 50mpg.
* Edit - which would effectively be a like for like replacement.0 -
Mate of mine is an EV geek.
He attends every UK EV show for every day they’re on.
Even he has talked about the lack of infrastructure, but did say battery technology is advancing fast.
soon be able to get greater distances and make fewer charges.
Loves his Tesla
if a self confessed EV geek sees the drawbacks, then I’ll wait until it makes sense to switch.1 -
Bigger batteries need a bigger car to put them in. People want range, ergo bigger batteries are needed.MuttleyCAFC said:
Seeing as heavier cars damage roads I think this is fair. I think if we warp forwards twenty years, there will be hydrogen cars, bio petrol cars and electric cars. I am a logical sort of guy and there is no logic from what I can see for electric cars to be so big. The cost of producing one of these enviromentally can't be better than people keeping their petrol cars longer. Well if it can, nobody seems to be trying to explain it.Darty Valiant said:
Re electric cars, I still think the technology needs to progress before I jump in. I’d also need to dig up the front garden so that I don’t have to park on the street and able to charge at home.
Also I see Elon Musk, electric car producer is supporting Trump, climate change denier in the US elections. I also recall being told to get a diesel and finding out the contaminants the engines produced were knowingly fiddled by comapnies that are now producing electric cars. My position will change when I can trust what I am being told.0 -
Of course EVs are not fully developed, yet, but that will only come in time via relatively early adopters like me. Me and Mrs Hex want there to be an inhabitable planet for our grandchildren. I have only purchased new cars because I'm not interested in what's under the bonnet (I'm not rich - I saved !). We keep them for 10+ years. So with my BMW 11 years old and me 72 it was time to take the plunge and get an EV, probably my last car. Yes we are taking a chance. I suppose we are lucky that we don't have to make long journeys. So far we have not needed to use a public charger but we are going to the IOW soon so will have to see how that goes.
We've had our Volvo EV for 10 months. It was chosen primarily for it's high driving position. Mrs Hex rarely drove the BMW 3 series because it was difficult seeing over the bonnet and reversing was not easy (I agree) so she was hesitant taking the Volvo instead of her 13 year old Jazz. She loves it and it's as good as her car now. She's a 2 car wife !
It seems to me that there is a lot of time and effort going into anti-EV publicity and many people are believing it. A previous poster mentioned reliability. Whilst admitting EVs are new, why should they be less reliable than ICEs ? Surely the opposite is more likely to be true.3 -
I think the elephant in the room is that buying a car and keeping it for 10 to 11 years as you have done, maybe even longer is a decent eco option. The cost of production, replacement of batteries and ultimate disposal is not adequately explained to my satisfaction and why do electric cars need to be so big? Surely there has to be a change in how we think about cars in that they are not an item to show off our status, not something we should gain great pleasure from using but a necessity that gets us to and from where we want to go.3
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With our boys being older now we’re looking a buying a smaller (EV) car to replay our much loved Skoda Yeti. My wife has a salary sacrifice scheme for buying EVs right now, so seems like a goot time to go electric.We hired a Fiat Cinquecento in Italy and absolutely loved it, but there really isn’t enough room in the back for the occasions when we do need to travel as a family for more than a few miles.So we’re looking at the currently available EVs:
Volvo EX30
Mini ?
Citroen ë-C3
Fiat 600
Renault 5
Renault 4
or the soon to be available:
Hyundai Inster (cheaper and smaller than the above, but quite interesting).
https://youtu.be/WT7swFbkdV4?si=lbwErSJTLy6_-Unx
Haven't really done much research yet, so this is the long list.Any other suggestions for a smaller EV?0 -
MuttleyCAFC said:I think the elephant in the room is that buying a car and keeping it for 10 to 11 years as you have done, maybe even longer is a decent eco option. The cost of production, replacement of batteries and ultimate disposal is not adequately explained to my satisfaction and why do electric cars need to be so big? Surely there has to be a change in how we think about cars in that they are not an item to show off our status, not something we should gain great pleasure from using but a necessity that gets us to and from where we want to go.I don't understand your point. EVs started as smaller cars. It is only in the last couple of years that larger EVs have become available. Our Volvo XC40 is a smaller SUV, certainly not a status symbol.It is rare for a radical change of product to be cost/environmentally more efficient immediately. Take those light bulbs that the power companies were forced to distribute many years ago. They were hardly the answer to climate change (before it was famous) but a necessary milestone along the road to much better environmental solutions. EVs are part of a process not the final solution.1
