Cool cool, another change, 6 in 4 years, and all it’s done is wheel spin the club. We're about as clearer example that changing managers constantly does nothing. Next man comes in, fails to get to the play offs, and what, sack them too?
This is very valid and is down to the owners. Proper owners would be selecting the manager more carefully, these guys have selected a succession of clowns already in their short tenure and also sanctioned all these atrocious signings. That’s the rooT cause for sure, but that doesn’t make hanging onto somebody evidently so clueless and inept right. Ultimately we need new owners but that is impossible. So the next best solution is the merry go round which managed to land us with bowyer by luck rather than design. I would actually have rather stuck with Holden and wouldn’t have minded giving him a longer period to build something, even though he was doing shite I thought he had the potential, but was criminally under resourced (in a way that Jones hasn’t been)
I doubt Bowyer would have done much better with these players. We had such a great team compared to what we have now and the last few seasons. Personally i think a manager is only a minor part of the equation and squad quality being the major bit.
Again, don’t disagree with most of that. The key point which you seem to be ignoring, and to repeat - this manager specifically assembled this squad! He had the luxury of choosing what he was given and he is a donut to put it politely - which is why every time he talks he sounds like some pissed up lunatic in a Cardiff pub and which is why he thought it would be a good idea to start subbing may off the very game when he came in and to then think he’d be better off with what we have now!
I would actually forgive the errors in judgement if I felt there was scope for him to learn and improve, which I think there was with the likes of Jacko and Holden - but I just think jones is such a stubborn, arrogant lunatic I can’t see him even really attempting to adapt
Definitely worry about NJ’s ability to listen & change his beliefs.
He 100% is the stubborn character you describe & it’s clear that our SMT are disaligned on decisions (Jones often believes he is right even when he is wrong)
A great example of this is Greg Docherty.
NJ said ‘he was glad he didn’t listen to others who told him that Docherty was not an attacking midfielder’ when Doc played his one & only decent game against Bolton.
I expect it was Andy Scott that was trying to advise NJ that doc isn’t a number 10 & in time AS has been proved right. NJ hoped he could convert Doc into a position he had never played before & it has failed miserably.
The above (lack of a creative / goal scoring number 10) has ended up being a massive factor in our failure to progress this season. It was a key position that everyone knew we needed / had to get right but NJ got his recruitment badly wrong.
10 points from the last 11 games. 2 wins from those games. Not good enough
Whilst I have no time for Scott (Should have been sacked when Appleton went) Jones has brought in 11 players, 4 of those from his days at Luton Town. His responsibility, his calls.
They won’t dare sack him, but something needs to change results wise or it’s another mid table finish
He is to blame, he got his players, he has been over stubborn in the style and formation. He didn’t want to recruit strikers, he didn’t fancy May.. he needs to hold his hands up. Not saying he needs to go, but he has been given everything he wanted.. and is not performing. I am convinced my mother could get better performances out of this bunch of players!
He didn’t want to recruit strikers? Other than Godden, Ahadme, Hylton and Dixon?
He is to blame, he got his players, he has been over stubborn in the style and formation. He didn’t want to recruit strikers, he didn’t fancy May.. he needs to hold his hands up. Not saying he needs to go, but he has been given everything he wanted.. and is not performing. I am convinced my mother could get better performances out of this bunch of players!
He didn’t want to recruit strikers? Other than Godden, Ahadme, Hylton and Dixon?
I think he wanted to sign a tall number nine so he used the money from selling May to buy Ahadme. He also thought Godden would be a good replacement for May who he didn't rate. Hylton was obviously his pick. Dixon I have no idea.
Is the issue sacking managers too quickly, or simply employing bad ones constantly? Probably a bit of both if you look at the list of recent ones... Just my view but
- Adkins, Jackson and Holden with time and investment would have done ok I reckon. - Garner and Appleton would have taken us down
With Jones it is clear that our football style is attritional, it is also apparent we are a mid table outfit at best, even with our first 11. Then there is the fact we have won one league game in 8; and what was Jones focus after that win... To call out fans for abusing him. He has had way more backing than his predecessors. He chose to move on May and if you believe CM then Dobson too.
Yet I still sit on the fence, but really only because I am bored with a continual manager merry go round.
The one thing I am absolutely clear about is that Andy Scott has to go. He has done zero since being here of good.
I'm more bored of our football under Jones than I am of the managerial merry-go-round. If we don't get more than 1 point from Peterborough and Huddersfield I will be expecting his departure
Was excited when he arrived. A man with a plan and someone who knows what it takes. Where are we now ? Looking no better than we have for the last few seasons. NJ was allowed to sign his players and given support to do so. It’s left us fragile in defence, non existent in midfield and powder puff up front. He’ll be able cite injuries but we looked average before that. Have we a style of play ? I don’t detect anything. I’m disappointed to be honest. Yesterday was crying out for Alfie May. I’m all for giving Jones more time. Much more time but if he sticks to what to me looks like a management style of unbending then what then ? We all spoke about how exciting it was to snare Dixon and even after we realised it would take a while to bed him in, where is he ? Glowing reports from the training ground but he can’t even get on the bench in a team devoid of flair. I don’t believe all the rose tinted views that we’ll click. This seasons hope of top six is all but gone before December. Roll on next season.
I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.
We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness.
Such a deflating situation.
Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart. Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness. Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild. That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
Curbs. Should have happened years ago. Tactics change, formations change etc, but some things don't change, such as spotting talent, picking the right characters, installing the right culture, having the respect of your players. He's still not that old and old adversaries such as Steve Bruce and Chris Wilder are still doing the business. But hey, let's keep moving forward!
*checks how Steve Bruce's side have been doing recently*
I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.
We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness.
Such a deflating situation.
Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart. Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness. Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild. That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
Curbs. Should have happened years ago. Tactics change, formations change etc, but some things don't change, such as spotting talent, picking the right characters, installing the right culture, having the respect of your players. He's still not that old and old adversaries such as Steve Bruce and Chris Wilder are still doing the business. But hey, let's keep moving forward!
There are other older managers yes, but they’ve stayed working. Curbs would be miles off it
He had a chance to evaluate the squad for a few months when he took over. That led to our best three players leaving.
He has then brought in players to mould the team to his wishes and it is plainly not working.
That said, I am fed up with changing managers. Probably not a popular opinion but I would give him next season as well. A manager needs to be given time to learn from his mistakes. Next season, after 3 windows he has no excuse for not challenging for promotion
He had a chance to evaluate the squad for a few months when he took over. That led to our best three players leaving.
He has then brought in players to mould the team to his wishes and it is plainly not working.
That said, I am fed up with changing managers. Probably not a popular opinion but I would give him next season as well. A manager needs to be given time to learn from his mistakes. Next season, after 3 windows he has no excuse for not challenging for promotion
We've gone all in on him and signed the players he wanted, so we have to give him time
It doesn’t look like it at the moment but it could still click into place and 1 decent run would put us in the mix. Need Jones and TC back though
He had a chance to evaluate the squad for a few months when he took over. That led to our best three players leaving.
He has then brought in players to mould the team to his wishes and it is plainly not working.
That said, I am fed up with changing managers. Probably not a popular opinion but I would give him next season as well. A manager needs to be given time to learn from his mistakes. Next season, after 3 windows he has no excuse for not challenging for promotion
In his defence, I think Dobbo was already on his way to that Hungarian team before Jones came in. In fact, as I remember it, he was going to go in January rather than the summer before Jones intervened. I reckon Jones would have kept Dobson if possible. No arguments on May though, the way Jones didn’t seem to fancy May too much after he came in seemed strange and him not being in the squad definitely weakens us.
He had a chance to evaluate the squad for a few months when he took over. That led to our best three players leaving.
He has then brought in players to mould the team to his wishes and it is plainly not working.
That said, I am fed up with changing managers. Probably not a popular opinion but I would give him next season as well. A manager needs to be given time to learn from his mistakes. Next season, after 3 windows he has no excuse for not challenging for promotion
We've gone all in on him and signed the players he wanted, so we have to give him time
It doesn’t look like it at the moment but it could still click into place and 1 decent run would put us in the mix. Need Jones and TC back though
I am as trigger happy as they come, and I dislike Jones as a bloke and hate the football even more, but I agree he has to get the whole of this season (unless we become genuinely relegation threatened).
He doesn't get next season by default though, and we'd need to be in the top 6 at Christmas to keep his job. Not within touching distance, not waiting for it to 'click', but firmly and comfortably top 6, or he will have to go.
I wonder at what point managers get classed as clowns. You could be forgiven for thinking that as soon as they arrive here, the big red shoes are waiting to be filled. Club's been a circus for years.
This time last season we were 11th, 21 points from 15 games.
This season we are 13th, 19 points from 14 games.
We’ve shown absolutely no progress whatsoever
I’d say we’ve probably gone backwards in terms of the squad over the past 12 months. This time last year we drew 2-2 away to Pompey (the match where McGrandles scored that last minute equaliser). The team that day was:
A Maynard-Brewer
T Watson
M Hector
L Jones
A Edun
G Dobson (c)
L Watson
T Campbell
A May C Blackett-Taylor M Leaburn
Now that is still a fairly mediocre team with some serious deficiencies, but I think it would beat the teams that we have been fielding this season.
I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.
We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness.
Such a deflating situation.
Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart. Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness. Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild. That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
Curbs. Should have happened years ago. Tactics change, formations change etc, but some things don't change, such as spotting talent, picking the right characters, installing the right culture, having the respect of your players. He's still not that old and old adversaries such as Steve Bruce and Chris Wilder are still doing the business. But hey, let's keep moving forward!
*checks how Steve Bruce's side have been doing recently*
Steve Bruce has had a hell of time in his personal life recently, no idea why you would call him out.
Unless we get sucked into a relegation battle, I can’t see Jones getting the boot this season, unless the Senior Management Team come under intense pressure from the owners and are desperate to find a scapegoat.
I do not, however, see Nathan Jones being here next season.
This time last season we were 11th, 21 points from 15 games.
This season we are 13th, 19 points from 14 games.
We’ve shown absolutely no progress whatsoever
Hard to argue with that. However, I do hope we stick with Jones for a while long. Both Burton & Crawley coming up very soon. Really need to make sure we don’t get dragged backed into a relegation battle.
Always feel like no win in double figures is when the manager job becomes untenable. 32 matches left for the season. Probably 10 wins would keep us comfortably above relegation.
I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.
We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness.
Such a deflating situation.
Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart. Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness. Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild. That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
Curbs. Should have happened years ago. Tactics change, formations change etc, but some things don't change, such as spotting talent, picking the right characters, installing the right culture, having the respect of your players. He's still not that old and old adversaries such as Steve Bruce and Chris Wilder are still doing the business. But hey, let's keep moving forward!
*checks how Steve Bruce's side have been doing recently*
Steve Bruce has had a hell of time in his personal life recently, no idea why you would call him out.
This is true, and I did forget. But I'm simply observing that 'appoint an old head to sort it out' doesn't always work, even in the examples given. Probably a bit insensitive to cavil at this right now, yes
Doesn’t matter if we sack Jones or not. With Methven and Scott choosing the successor we have no chance. I believe they are the real problem, mid table or worse until they go. Trouble is Methven has a share in the ownership so is hard to sack. The Americans may realise he’s a serial loser when it comes to football but how do they get rid of him.
Doesn’t matter if we sack Jones or not. With Methven and Scott choosing the successor we have no chance. I believe they are the real problem, mid table or worse until they go. Trouble is Methven has a share in the ownership so is hard to sack. The Americans may realise he’s a serial loser when it comes to football but how do they get rid of him.
CM might have a stake but he’s easily replaced if the real money wants him out.
I actually don't think it matters who we get, so I don't think it's even worth sacking Jones. Our squad isn't good, and with the money wasted, and having to pay off Jones, we wouldn't be able to attract anyone decent anyway.
I was very excited when he got the job, and was delusional enough to believe he was going to get us promoted with one decent season and even solidify us in the championship, just extremely wrong on both accounts.
All I'm hoping for now, is he keeps us in this league, some other poor soul comes along and buys us and we get another roll of the dice on new owners.
We are going nowhere with this current setup. I have 0 faith that our ownership, management and recruitment team have the skills and knowledge to turn this around.
Ill completely lose faith in our club if we now sack him after handing over the keys and letting him decimate the squad. Id rather give him 2 mil in jan than pay off another manager though and 'completely' waste it.
The squad is absolutely better than they’re performing, some of the shite teams we’ve faced in this league & basically been incapable of getting out of first gear. That’s on coaching & tactics, to which we haven’t got any set style of play.
The board should make Cardiff aware that we’ll wave his compo fee & they can take NJ off our hands since he’s so desperate to manage them.
Then pilfer Scott Lindsay from MK Dons, and if they can’t do that then the club might as well fold because being out muscled by a fake club would be beyond embarrassing.
The squad is absolutely better than they’re performing, some of the shite teams we’ve faced in this league & basically been incapable of getting out of first gear. That’s on coaching & tactics, to which we haven’t got any set style of play.
The board should make Cardiff aware that we’ll wave his compo fee & they can take NJ off our hands since he’s so desperate to manage them.
Then pilfer Scott Lindsay from MK Dons, and if they can’t do that then the club might as well fold because being out muscled by a fake club would be beyond embarrassing.
Scott Lindsay has barely managed 10 games at MK. There is no way he would leave just yet.
Comments
He 100% is the stubborn character you describe & it’s clear that our SMT are disaligned on decisions (Jones often believes he is right even when he is wrong)
A great example of this is Greg Docherty.
NJ said ‘he was glad he didn’t listen to others who told him that Docherty was not an attacking midfielder’ when Doc played his one & only decent game against Bolton.
I expect it was Andy Scott that was trying to advise NJ that doc isn’t a number 10 & in time AS has been proved right. NJ hoped he could convert Doc into a position he had never played before & it has failed miserably.
The above (lack of a creative / goal scoring number 10) has ended up being a massive factor in our failure to progress this season. It was a key position that everyone knew we needed / had to get right but NJ got his recruitment badly wrong.
Whilst I have no time for Scott (Should have been sacked when Appleton went) Jones has brought in 11 players, 4 of those from his days at Luton Town. His responsibility, his calls.
They won’t dare sack him, but something needs to change results wise or it’s another mid table finish
He also thought Godden would be a good replacement for May who he didn't rate.
Hylton was obviously his pick.
Dixon I have no idea.
- Adkins, Jackson and Holden with time and investment would have done ok I reckon.
- Garner and Appleton would have taken us down
With Jones it is clear that our football style is attritional, it is also apparent we are a mid table outfit at best, even with our first 11. Then there is the fact we have won one league game in 8; and what was Jones focus after that win... To call out fans for abusing him. He has had way more backing than his predecessors. He chose to move on May and if you believe CM then Dobson too.
Yet I still sit on the fence, but really only because I am bored with a continual manager merry go round.
The one thing I am absolutely clear about is that Andy Scott has to go. He has done zero since being here of good.
It doesn’t look like it at the moment but it could still click into place and 1 decent run would put us in the mix. Need Jones and TC back though
I am as trigger happy as they come, and I dislike Jones as a bloke and hate the football even more, but I agree he has to get the whole of this season (unless we become genuinely relegation threatened).
He doesn't get next season by default though, and we'd need to be in the top 6 at Christmas to keep his job. Not within touching distance, not waiting for it to 'click', but firmly and comfortably top 6, or he will have to go.
This season we are 13th, 19 points from 14 games.
C Blackett-Taylor
M Leaburn
Now that is still a fairly mediocre team with some serious deficiencies, but I think it would beat the teams that we have been fielding this season.
I do not, however, see Nathan Jones being here next season.
I was very excited when he got the job, and was delusional enough to believe he was going to get us promoted with one decent season and even solidify us in the championship, just extremely wrong on both accounts.
All I'm hoping for now, is he keeps us in this league, some other poor soul comes along and buys us and we get another roll of the dice on new owners.
We are going nowhere with this current setup. I have 0 faith that our ownership, management and recruitment team have the skills and knowledge to turn this around.
The board should make Cardiff aware that we’ll wave his compo fee & they can take NJ off our hands since he’s so desperate to manage them.