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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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Gribbo said:
Who was the alternative at the time though, Scott, or was there gonna be someone else come in in a Director of Football role?Croydon said:It's interesting that he didn't take the Millwall job because they wouldn't give him total control of signings. We did, and that is a big part of the problem.
Dont know tbf. Clearly Millwall didn't buy into whatever story he was selling, which atm looks like nothing more than signing his old players
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Yes he did assemble this squad but was he hamstrung by the budget if so is that why he had to choose Luton cast offs?paulsturgess said:
Again, don’t disagree with most of that. The key point which you seem to be ignoring, and to repeat - this manager specifically assembled this squad! He had the luxury of choosing what he was given and he is a donut to put it politely - which is why every time he talks he sounds like some pissed up lunatic in a Cardiff pub and which is why he thought it would be a good idea to start subbing may off the very game when he came in and to then think he’d be better off with what we have now!Kindoncasella said:
I doubt Bowyer would have done much better with these players. We had such a great team compared to what we have now and the last few seasons. Personally i think a manager is only a minor part of the equation and squad quality being the major bit.paulsturgess said:
This is very valid and is down to the owners. Proper owners would be selecting the manager more carefully, these guys have selected a succession of clowns already in their short tenure and also sanctioned all these atrocious signings. That’s the rooT cause for sure, but that doesn’t make hanging onto somebody evidently so clueless and inept right. Ultimately we need new owners but that is impossible. So the next best solution is the merry go round which managed to land us with bowyer by luck rather than design. I would actually have rather stuck with Holden and wouldn’t have minded giving him a longer period to build something, even though he was doing shite I thought he had the potential, but was criminally under resourced (in a way that Jones hasn’t been)Rothko said:Cool cool, another change, 6 in 4 years, and all it’s done is wheel spin the club. We're about as clearer example that changing managers constantly does nothing. Next man comes in, fails to get to the play offs, and what, sack them too?I would actually forgive the errors in judgement if I felt there was scope for him to learn and improve, which I think there was with the likes of Jacko and Holden - but I just think jones is such a stubborn, arrogant lunatic I can’t see him even really attempting to adapt0 -
No new manager please. We need to make him stay to sort it out, not give him an easy out and pay off. He's proved himself capable elsewhere before. It's been largely downhill since that countdown to promotion thread appeared. Don't anyone ever do that again in August/September.
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I suspect he actively chose those though. As per bowyers squad in 18/19, it is possible to assemble a good side on a low budget but not if you think it’s a good idea to go after your 5 year old has beens.Kindoncasella said:
Yes he did assemble this squad but was he hamstrung by the budget if so is that why he had to choose Luton cast offs?paulsturgess said:
Again, don’t disagree with most of that. The key point which you seem to be ignoring, and to repeat - this manager specifically assembled this squad! He had the luxury of choosing what he was given and he is a donut to put it politely - which is why every time he talks he sounds like some pissed up lunatic in a Cardiff pub and which is why he thought it would be a good idea to start subbing may off the very game when he came in and to then think he’d be better off with what we have now!Kindoncasella said:
I doubt Bowyer would have done much better with these players. We had such a great team compared to what we have now and the last few seasons. Personally i think a manager is only a minor part of the equation and squad quality being the major bit.paulsturgess said:
This is very valid and is down to the owners. Proper owners would be selecting the manager more carefully, these guys have selected a succession of clowns already in their short tenure and also sanctioned all these atrocious signings. That’s the rooT cause for sure, but that doesn’t make hanging onto somebody evidently so clueless and inept right. Ultimately we need new owners but that is impossible. So the next best solution is the merry go round which managed to land us with bowyer by luck rather than design. I would actually have rather stuck with Holden and wouldn’t have minded giving him a longer period to build something, even though he was doing shite I thought he had the potential, but was criminally under resourced (in a way that Jones hasn’t been)Rothko said:Cool cool, another change, 6 in 4 years, and all it’s done is wheel spin the club. We're about as clearer example that changing managers constantly does nothing. Next man comes in, fails to get to the play offs, and what, sack them too?I would actually forgive the errors in judgement if I felt there was scope for him to learn and improve, which I think there was with the likes of Jacko and Holden - but I just think jones is such a stubborn, arrogant lunatic I can’t see him even really attempting to adapt
he also insisted that docherty was a no8 , and spent a cash sum on Ahadme. Not Luton cast offs.3 -
Agreed with that heinous crime and this is exactly why whoever started that thread got a complete and very deserved volley of abuse.swordfish said:No new manager please. We need to make him stay to sort it out, not give him an easy out and pay off. He's proved himself capable elsewhere before. It's been largely downhill since that countdown to promotion thread appeared. Don't anyone ever do that again in August/September.
also don’t wanna pay him off, agree with that, hoping Luton want him back0 -
Out of those 9 players (who couldn't play all at once) who are creative goal scoring game changers.SoundAsa£ said:
Not making any excuses for the very poor performance but as for the lack of decent bench occupants, we do have 9 players currently unavailable and receiving treatment.ct_addick said:He thinks he is a better manger than he really is….poor subs today….had no clue about the formation at the end….would have left Taylor on and pulled of Docherty. Going nowhere with him TBH
Maybe Campbell & Kanu.
We ain't losing because of the injured players......we are losing because we didnt sign the right ones in the summer.
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2 and counting.cafc_4life said:I’m sure some of you get your kicks out of the team not performing so you can come on here wanting another manager gone. Some of you must be on your 12th wife2 -
Yeah if he did choose those players then its on him. Especially with Ahadme and Docherty, just not good enough.paulsturgess said:
I suspect he actively chose those though. As per bowyers squad in 18/19, it is possible to assemble a good side on a low budget but not if you think it’s a good idea to go after your 5 year old has beens.Kindoncasella said:
Yes he did assemble this squad but was he hamstrung by the budget if so is that why he had to choose Luton cast offs?paulsturgess said:
Again, don’t disagree with most of that. The key point which you seem to be ignoring, and to repeat - this manager specifically assembled this squad! He had the luxury of choosing what he was given and he is a donut to put it politely - which is why every time he talks he sounds like some pissed up lunatic in a Cardiff pub and which is why he thought it would be a good idea to start subbing may off the very game when he came in and to then think he’d be better off with what we have now!Kindoncasella said:
I doubt Bowyer would have done much better with these players. We had such a great team compared to what we have now and the last few seasons. Personally i think a manager is only a minor part of the equation and squad quality being the major bit.paulsturgess said:
This is very valid and is down to the owners. Proper owners would be selecting the manager more carefully, these guys have selected a succession of clowns already in their short tenure and also sanctioned all these atrocious signings. That’s the rooT cause for sure, but that doesn’t make hanging onto somebody evidently so clueless and inept right. Ultimately we need new owners but that is impossible. So the next best solution is the merry go round which managed to land us with bowyer by luck rather than design. I would actually have rather stuck with Holden and wouldn’t have minded giving him a longer period to build something, even though he was doing shite I thought he had the potential, but was criminally under resourced (in a way that Jones hasn’t been)Rothko said:Cool cool, another change, 6 in 4 years, and all it’s done is wheel spin the club. We're about as clearer example that changing managers constantly does nothing. Next man comes in, fails to get to the play offs, and what, sack them too?I would actually forgive the errors in judgement if I felt there was scope for him to learn and improve, which I think there was with the likes of Jacko and Holden - but I just think jones is such a stubborn, arrogant lunatic I can’t see him even really attempting to adapt
he also insisted that docherty was a no8 , and spent a cash sum on Ahadme. Not Luton cast offs.0 -
I'm now convinced that there should be a director of football/chief scout/whoever who's job it is to agree on a style of play, sign those players & THEN bring in a manager who adheres to it. You interview a number of managers who asses the squad to see if it shapes up with their thinking. If it does then they sign up as manager.
Not keeping signing & sacking managers with different playing styles so that you are continuously churning the squad.
And btw.......it doesn't really matter who our manager currently is as this squad is not good enough for top 6......even with a bit of strengthening in January. I also don't think e are bad enough to go down so might as well keep Jones. Makes no difference if we finish 17th or 7th imo. Both are failures.0 -
Curbs.Scoham said:
Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?queensland_addick said:
You're not wrong.AFKABartram said:I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.
We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness.
Such a deflating situation.
Am I wrong?
We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart.
Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness.
Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild.
That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
Should have happened years ago. Tactics change, formations change etc, but some things don't change, such as spotting talent, picking the right characters, installing the right culture, having the respect of your players.
He's still not that old and old adversaries such as Steve Bruce and Chris Wilder are still doing the business.
But hey, let's keep moving forward!5 - Sponsored links:
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Its interesting to see names like Cullen and Beliek popping up, this must be the first season in a long time that we haven’t got prem loans in. We have had a mixed bag over the years, some real gems and some real horrors. Wonder why we haven’t gone down that route this season ?
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You can add Gallagher and Raksaki to that list.Ducktapeshoerepairs said:Its interesting to see names like Cullen and Beliek popping up, this must be the first season in a long time that we haven’t got prem loans in. We have had a mixed bag over the years, some real gems and some real horrors. Wonder why we haven’t gone down that route this season ?1 -
To be honest, I've not really given a shit about who our manager is since the disgraceful way we binned Jackson. I always used to be in the "give them more time" camp, because the way football in this country has gone with the constant sacking of managers is ridiculous.
But to paraphrase Red from Shawshank, "It's just a bullshit world. So you go on and stamp your form, sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because to tell you the truth, I don't give a shit."8 -
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I think this is an important point. How much money have we wasted keep chasing our tails with new managers?swordfish said:No new manager please. We need to make him stay to sort it out, not give him an easy out and pay off. He's proved himself capable elsewhere before. It's been largely downhill since that countdown to promotion thread appeared. Don't anyone ever do that again in August/September.3 -
We can’t keep sacking managers, I thought Jones was the one to get us up. Supposedly a big name for this league, well he needs to get on and prove it.5
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Will jones take us up, no. Will he take us down, no. I expect changing managers now will end up closer to bottom 4 than top 6. Bloody depressing but we need to give a manager time and hope4
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Its a stated policy of the club to use our Academy players , not to bring in loans (how did A Campbell get in?).Bedsaddick said:
You can add Gallagher and Raksaki to that list.Ducktapeshoerepairs said:Its interesting to see names like Cullen and Beliek popping up, this must be the first season in a long time that we haven’t got prem loans in. We have had a mixed bag over the years, some real gems and some real horrors. Wonder why we haven’t gone down that route this season ?
My point and expect yours would be -thats fine if other clubs can't do it- but they can- and they do. we are at a competitive disadvantage.
Academy players should get in on merit , not because we a desperate for someone to stand on the pitch.1 -
The football is dire to watch, which is fine if you grab a win like the first few games but it's insufferable when you don't.
Seems recruitment wise we've gone from Andy Scott signing duds to letting Jones turning us into a Luton old boys club4 -
I don't like NJ I never have
BUT
he changed things around in the 2nd half, I don't think he is to blame for 3 goal chances that were missed. I still don't like his managerial way but there really is no point in changing managers before the season end, if then10 - Sponsored links:
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Well if we were going back, there’s always Lennie Lawrence. JOKING.1
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Personally, Im not looking to turf NJ out right now, but hypothetically if we continue to slide down the table and we end up flirting with the relegation zone come Jan/Feb, would anyone here want to give him a couple more transfer windows?0
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Sacking him is exactly what he wants like so many managers we have had in this league. Just a pay day for them. Keep him so he can suffer like the rest of us.6
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If Gerrard gets the boot Holden probably follows.Gribbo said:Bedsaddick said:
He's proving to be no better than the last 5 or six managers. In fact i'd take Holden back in a heartbeat.Leuth said:
What do we reckon folksthenewbie said:
It's absolutely a turnaround just based on the level of performance. Whether we can sustain it or was it just a one off, that really is down to the next few games.eaststandmike said:
Hardly a turnaround is it, one win after three defeats. Let’s take yesterday’s tactics, energy, and teamwork into the next three or four games and win them.Dazzler21 said:I didn't expect the turnaround.
I wonder if Nathan was being interfered with past couple of weeks? Whatever it was that caused that dip in effort and form, let's hope we kick on now... But we've seen all too many false dawns.
Thats a turnaround
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100%se9addick said:Honestly, I wouldn’t sack Jones, I’m not ready to go back to the merry go round.
Give him the money and we'll hopefully see progress.
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He is to blame, he got his players, he has been over stubborn in the style and formation. He didn’t want to recruit strikers, he didn’t fancy May.. he needs to hold his hands up. Not saying he needs to go, but he has been given everything he wanted.. and is not performing. I am convinced my mother could get better performances out of this bunch of players!8
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Not sure he would do that as it's everyone elses fault never his.DubaiCAFC said:He is to blame, he got his players, he has been over stubborn in the style and formation. He didn’t want to recruit strikers, he didn’t fancy May.. he needs to hold his hands up. Not saying he needs to go, but he has been given everything he wanted.. and is not performing. I am convinced my mother could get better performances out of this bunch of players!2 -
It wouldn’t be so bad if we could see some progression either in the playing style or results but neither are any better than the likes of Jacko or Holden were in charge, in fact the playing style was at least more entertaining then.3
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Spot on.lancashire lad said:I don't like NJ I never have
BUT
he changed things around in the 2nd half, I don't think he is to blame for 3 goal chances that were missed. I still don't like his managerial way but there really is no point in changing managers before the season end, if then0 -
Definitely worry about NJ’s ability to listen & change his beliefs.paulsturgess said:
Again, don’t disagree with most of that. The key point which you seem to be ignoring, and to repeat - this manager specifically assembled this squad! He had the luxury of choosing what he was given and he is a donut to put it politely - which is why every time he talks he sounds like some pissed up lunatic in a Cardiff pub and which is why he thought it would be a good idea to start subbing may off the very game when he came in and to then think he’d be better off with what we have now!Kindoncasella said:
I doubt Bowyer would have done much better with these players. We had such a great team compared to what we have now and the last few seasons. Personally i think a manager is only a minor part of the equation and squad quality being the major bit.paulsturgess said:
This is very valid and is down to the owners. Proper owners would be selecting the manager more carefully, these guys have selected a succession of clowns already in their short tenure and also sanctioned all these atrocious signings. That’s the rooT cause for sure, but that doesn’t make hanging onto somebody evidently so clueless and inept right. Ultimately we need new owners but that is impossible. So the next best solution is the merry go round which managed to land us with bowyer by luck rather than design. I would actually have rather stuck with Holden and wouldn’t have minded giving him a longer period to build something, even though he was doing shite I thought he had the potential, but was criminally under resourced (in a way that Jones hasn’t been)Rothko said:Cool cool, another change, 6 in 4 years, and all it’s done is wheel spin the club. We're about as clearer example that changing managers constantly does nothing. Next man comes in, fails to get to the play offs, and what, sack them too?I would actually forgive the errors in judgement if I felt there was scope for him to learn and improve, which I think there was with the likes of Jacko and Holden - but I just think jones is such a stubborn, arrogant lunatic I can’t see him even really attempting to adapt
He 100% is the stubborn character you describe & it’s clear that our SMT are disaligned on decisions (Jones often believes he is right even when he is wrong)
A great example of this is Greg Docherty.
NJ said ‘he was glad he didn’t listen to others who told him that Docherty was not an attacking midfielder’ when Doc played his one & only decent game against Bolton.
I expect it was Andy Scott that was trying to advise NJ that doc isn’t a number 10 & in time AS has been proved right. NJ hoped he could convert Doc into a position he had never played before & it has failed miserably.
The above (lack of a creative / goal scoring number 10) has ended up being a massive factor in our failure to progress this season. It was a key position that everyone knew we needed / had to get right but NJ got his recruitment badly wrong.
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