Things like this are pointless because the bigger side of the equation (squad) are not accounted for.
I agree to an extent. I do find it interesting though how Jones has had a better squad than Holden, and has built one for this season largely himself, and is still behind Holden who it was widely accepted was not good enough in the job and rightly sacked.
This time last season we were 11th, 21 points from 15 games.
This season we are 13th, 19 points from 14 games.
We’ve shown absolutely no progress whatsoever
Mainly due to our best 3 players from last season have gone and either replaced with inferior players or in CBT case we have not bothered with a like for like.
On the flip side Ramsey, Mitchell and Edwards are better those those they replaced at the back.
So it all balances out and we are stuck in the same position.
Things like this are pointless because the bigger side of the equation (squad) are not accounted for.
I agree to an extent. I do find it interesting though how Jones has had a better squad than Holden, and has built one for this season largely himself, and is still behind Holden who it was widely accepted was not good enough in the job and rightly sacked.
For me Jones has to be given time. Next season its essential he has to be in charge. This season has gone badly wrong and I’m sure he sees that as much as we do. Support him in the summer otherwise what’s the point. I used to think he’d get us out of this league in two seasons. Now I’m less convinced but regardless, he has to be given real time to get what he wants.
Personally think give him this season, another window in January and if by the end of the season we don’t see some momentum and better football then he’s got to go.
His stubbornness has cost us at times and if he isn’t learning from these moments then he isn’t the manager we want.
The owners have gotta role the dice and either back him again or accept this season and most of the recruitment has been a waste of money and time.
How often do we say we must stick by a manager, just not this one. As soon as things take a downtown, suddenly they're not the one though. That's when resolute owners stick by their man in the face of fans voicing concerns.
Jones had the backing of most as the one to persist with, but's lost it already in some circles. Surprise, surprise! We're already deep diving to blame the owners, the manager, Scott (the patsy), and the players for a poor spell of form that can happen to anyone. Citeh just lost four on the spin. Jones hasn't (yet). Anyone calling for Pep's head?
We need a season reboot with what we have and a win, for something to click with this bunch that hasn't yet. Who knows what that will be, but a change of manager with the same group of players isn't it.
Four more years! Four more years! Err 😟 I know some would like that to read games. I sympathize. No one on here likes it when we're losing.
Things like this are pointless because the bigger side of the equation (squad) are not accounted for.
I agree to an extent. I do find it interesting though how Jones has had a better squad than Holden, and has built one for this season largely himself, and is still behind Holden who it was widely accepted was not good enough in the job and rightly sacked.
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
How often do we say we must stick by a manager, just not this one. As soon as things take a downtown, suddenly they're not the one though. That's when resolute owners stick by their man in the face of fans voicing concerns.
Jones had the backing of most as the one to persist with, but's lost it already in some circles. Surprise, surprise! We're already deep diving to blame the owners, the manager, Scott (the patsy), and the players for a poor spell of form that can happen to anyone. Citeh just lost four on the spin. Jones hasn't (yet). Anyone calling for Pep's head?
We need a season reboot with what we have and a win, for something to click with this bunch that hasn't yet. Who knows what that will be, but a change of manager with the same group of players isn't it.
Four more years! Four more years! Err 😟 I know some would like that to read games. I sympathize. No one on here likes it when we're losing.
I was doing the washing up after dinner last night listening to the phone in on 5 Live and unless it was a someone on a wind-up, there was a City fan saying it was time for a change.
He was apparently very highly regarded when he began his career here with the youth team. I'm certain that his footballing philosophy back then, wouldn't have been limited to the high press and superior fitness and effort, as seems to be the case now. I just don't get why he doesn't seem to be concerned that the midfield is creating next to nothing, or that we never seem to score in the first half. It's so glaringly obvious to everyone, except him, it seems.
What annoys me is how impressed I was with Luton in the promotion season he left them for Stoke. Bar the day we tore them apart at the Valley, they were such an exciting team to watch with the two overlapping full backs. We look nowhere near that. We actually look like we have no specific style of play whatsoever.
The hopeful balls forward yesterday struck desperation and hit the fact we don’t have a style home.
He was apparently very highly regarded when he began his career here with the youth team. I'm certain that his footballing philosophy back then, wouldn't have been limited to the high press and superior fitness and effort, as seems to be the case now. I just don't get why he doesn't seem to be concerned that the midfield is creating next to nothing, or that we never seem to score in the first half. It's so glaringly obvious to everyone, except him, it seems.
When Nathan was in charge of the U21's they were a good side who had Poyet in midfield as the water carrier with captain Bradley Jordan and the wee midfielder Jack ? about 5ft 3in ! Pigott, Smith and Sho-Silva or Azeez playing slightly wider up front.
Barnes, Osbourne or Holmes-Dennis as full backs who gave width with perm any two from Lennon, Ajayi and an Irish lad who went back home to play Gaelic football.
Pope was in goal and CAFC under Jones for that season back in 12/13, didn't play a pressing game* but fairly traditional 4-3-3 in the matches I watched at Sparrows lane with the passing crisp and accurate.
Jones need to try playing some football, rather than instructing the players to hump the ball mindlessly forward. Teams at League 1 level are well able to cope with bog standard, long ball teams like the one we have become under his management. It can't be an enjoyable experience either for the few better players that we have.
His assertion that we were "really good" in the second half yesterday is delusional. In addition, whilst I appreciate that he's under pressure, prattling on about "ten injuries" is also an attempt to deflect blame when probably only three of those players would have started yesterday.
The squad is unbalanced, with no creative midfielder, and Jones has been determined to convert the one first team winger we have, Tyreece Campbell, into a striker. When he returns to fitness, why not play him in his natural position, where he can attack full backs one-on-one in order to provide a semblance of service to our strikers ?
I've been watching Charlton since 1968/69 and, particularly given the level, this is the worst football I've ever seen from the side. We'd had some very poor teams over the last 56 years but at least they tried to play a bit of football.
I like a few have said here i would not want him to go before the end of the season, unless we were getting towards a relegation threat which i do not anticipate. January he needs to bring in the creative spark (s) and if we do not have the money to buy it in then loan it in regardless if his principles.
At the end of the season review his performance, particularly since January.
The problem we have is that this is a squad in his mould more than previous managers have been able to construct and would be dysfunctional under another manager, so it would be fairer to give them a chance through the the summer close season rather than bringing them in and trying to tinker against the 24/25 fixtures.
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after.
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after.
Yep, sacking the manager is the easy part. Replacing him with someone able to do a better job is the hard part, and finding someone able to do better who is willing to come to us gets harder every time we sack a manager after a relatively short period of time.
I’m not happy with how things are going, and I was pretty sceptical about our recruitment after the transfer window closed, but I don’t think we’ll get someone better than Jones at the moment. In those circumstances we should stick with Jones for the time being.
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after.
Chris Powell. Would give this club the lift it needs both on and off the pitch.
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after.
Chris Powell. Would give this club the lift it needs both on and off the pitch.
And then 30 games later, the knives are out.
Powell would be another short term sugar rush appointment. Just give a manager a bit of time for god sake
I’m really not a fan of Jones style of play or his recruitment but wouldn’t sack him at the moment
When he gets it tactically right you can kinda see what the fuss is about but it’s only happened a handful of times this season - Wigan away and Brum at home off the top of my head. He is clearly passionate and hard working but that’s a given for any job
If we are clinging on to the top half and can spend in Jan then that could be a big window, we are crying out for creativity in the middle of the park and another striker and keeper, can we get good players in that window to kick on, probably not
He also needs to be ruthless with some of the dross we have - Gillespey. A Campbell, Hylton, Docherty, Edun, Ahadme, Chuks just absolute dross just clear them out I’d rather see youngsters given a go or pick one or two from that Chelsea team we played last week, why have we given up on premier league loans we have had some crackers in the past
At some point we have to give a manager some time, so reluctantly I think we have to stick with him. We were heading for League 2 under Appleton and Jones did what was necessary to halt the slide. I am disappointed we haven't kicked on this season, but I don't see us as relegation fodder any more than I see us as promotion candidates. We are a box full of mediocrity in midfield and don't get the best out of our forwards. We are devoid of personality, lack leadership and look directionless and devoid of any plan, other than to resort to hoofball when the original (lack of) plan is proving fruitless. I don't really have the patience to sit back and accept this might be a long-term project. But I have to hope that this manager will get us where we want to be during his tenure. His high energy "front footed" Duracell bunnyism is fine if we are winning but it's a tough watch if we aren't Watching us these days is an exercise in frustration. The thing is, if things do not improve the decision will be taken by his managers/employers anyway so it probably doesn't matter what we think
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after.
Chris Powell. Would give this club the lift it needs both on and off the pitch.
And then 30 games later, the knives are out.
Powell would be another short term sugar rush appointment. Just give a manager a bit of time for god sake
Or alternatively he comes in, gives the whole place a huge lift, gets the fans on-side again, sets the team up with more of an attacking threat and after 30 games we are on the edge of the play-offs.
Based on current evidence, something I would be amazed if Jones does.
This time last season we were 11th, 21 points from 15 games.
This season we are 13th, 19 points from 14 games.
We’ve shown absolutely no progress whatsoever
Last season in the months of November, December, January and most of February, we were only able to muster one league win. We beat Cheltenham with two dodgy penalties. We finally broke the record on Feb 27th by winning at Derby.
If we go through these four calendar months with only one league win, I concede we have made absolutely no progress whatsoever.
Incidentally Nathan, shut up with the "front footed" thing. Front footed is not a bloody tactic or a panacea, it's just become one of your tedious and facile soundbites
I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.
We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness.
Such a deflating situation.
Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart. Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness. Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild. That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
Curbs. Should have happened years ago. Tactics change, formations change etc, but some things don't change, such as spotting talent, picking the right characters, installing the right culture, having the respect of your players. He's still not that old and old adversaries such as Steve Bruce and Chris Wilder are still doing the business. But hey, let's keep moving forward!
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after.
Chris Powell. Would give this club the lift it needs both on and off the pitch.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some Charlton fans have taken up necromancy in a bid to conjure up the spirit of Jimmy Seed from the netherworld. We really need to move on.
Alan Curbishley hasn’t managed a team for centuries and I highly doubt he fancies re-starting that phase of his life with Charlton in a lower place than we were when he last got the job.
Chris Powell had one amazing, brilliant, season with us a decade ago but his record as a manager since that season has been pretty terrible. He’s now an established coach/assistant and, frankly, I’d probably leave it at that.
Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week.
You may well be right.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after.
Chris Powell. Would give this club the lift it needs both on and off the pitch.
I wasn't all that excited to see NJ come in (but people who seemed to have more footy nous than me were) and tbh I would have been OK with giving MA the chance to turn it around (acknowledge that may not have happened) but we need to give him more time - we just can't keep sacking managers.
I think he's a bit of a bellend but that never stopped anyone being a successful manager.
Comments
On the flip side Ramsey, Mitchell and Edwards are better those those they replaced at the back.
So it all balances out and we are stuck in the same position.
His stubbornness has cost us at times and if he isn’t learning from these moments then he isn’t the manager we want.
The owners have gotta role the dice and either back him again or accept this season and most of the recruitment has been a waste of money and time.
Jones had the backing of most as the one to persist with, but's lost it already in some circles. Surprise, surprise! We're already deep diving to blame the owners, the manager, Scott (the patsy), and the players for a poor spell of form that can happen to anyone. Citeh just lost four on the spin. Jones hasn't (yet). Anyone calling for Pep's head?
We need a season reboot with what we have and a win, for something to click with this bunch that hasn't yet. Who knows what that will be, but a change of manager with the same group of players isn't it.
Four more years! Four more years! Err 😟 I know some would like that to read games. I sympathize. No one on here likes it when we're losing.
And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.
We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
I'm certain that his footballing philosophy back then, wouldn't have been limited to the high press and superior fitness and effort, as seems to be the case now.
I just don't get why he doesn't seem to be concerned that the midfield is creating next to nothing, or that we never seem to score in the first half.
It's so glaringly obvious to everyone, except him, it seems.
Only one man to blame for that.
When Nathan was in charge of the U21's they were a good side who had Poyet in midfield as the water carrier with captain Bradley Jordan and the wee midfielder Jack ? about 5ft 3in !
Pigott, Smith and Sho-Silva or Azeez playing slightly wider up front.
Barnes, Osbourne or Holmes-Dennis as full backs who gave width with perm any two from Lennon, Ajayi and an Irish lad who went back home to play Gaelic football.
Pope was in goal and CAFC under Jones for that season back in 12/13, didn't play a pressing game* but fairly traditional 4-3-3 in the matches I watched at Sparrows lane with the passing crisp and accurate.
*Teams did more of a half press back then.
His assertion that we were "really good" in the second half yesterday is delusional. In addition, whilst I appreciate that he's under pressure, prattling on about "ten injuries" is also an attempt to deflect blame when probably only three of those players would have started yesterday.
The squad is unbalanced, with no creative midfielder, and Jones has been determined to convert the one first team winger we have, Tyreece Campbell, into a striker. When he returns to fitness, why not play him in his natural position, where he can attack full backs one-on-one in order to provide a semblance of service to our strikers ?
I've been watching Charlton since 1968/69 and, particularly given the level, this is the worst football I've ever seen from the side. We'd had some very poor teams over the last 56 years but at least they tried to play a bit of football.
At the end of the season review his performance, particularly since January.
The problem we have is that this is a squad in his mould more than previous managers have been able to construct and would be dysfunctional under another manager, so it would be fairer to give them a chance through the the summer close season rather than bringing them in and trying to tinker against the 24/25 fixtures.
16/1...🙄
When he gets it tactically right you can kinda see what the fuss is about but it’s only happened a handful of times this season - Wigan away and Brum at home off the top of my head. He is clearly passionate and hard working but that’s a given for any job
If we are clinging on to the top half and can spend in Jan then that could be a big window, we are crying out for creativity in the middle of the park and another striker and keeper, can we get good players in that window to kick on, probably not
He also needs to be ruthless with some of the dross we have - Gillespey. A Campbell, Hylton, Docherty, Edun, Ahadme, Chuks just absolute dross just clear them out I’d rather see youngsters given a go or pick one or two from that Chelsea team we played last week, why have we given up on premier league loans we have had some crackers in the past
We were heading for League 2 under Appleton and Jones did what was necessary to halt the slide.
I am disappointed we haven't kicked on this season, but I don't see us as relegation fodder any more than I see us as promotion candidates.
We are a box full of mediocrity in midfield and don't get the best out of our forwards.
We are devoid of personality, lack leadership and look directionless and devoid of any plan, other than to resort to hoofball when the original (lack of) plan is proving fruitless.
I don't really have the patience to sit back and accept this might be a long-term project. But I have to hope that this manager will get us where we want to be during his tenure.
His high energy "front footed" Duracell bunnyism is fine if we are winning but it's a tough watch if we aren't
Watching us these days is an exercise in frustration.
The thing is, if things do not improve the decision will be taken by his managers/employers anyway so it probably doesn't matter what we think
Based on current evidence, something I would be amazed if Jones does.
If we go through these four calendar months with only one league win, I concede we have made absolutely no progress whatsoever.
Low bar yes, but it’s not me who’s setting it.
Front footed is not a bloody tactic or a panacea, it's just become one of your tedious and facile soundbites
I think he's a bit of a bellend but that never stopped anyone being a successful manager.