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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

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  • edited November 10
    Incidentally Nathan, shut up with the "front footed" thing.
    Front footed is not a bloody tactic or a panacea, it's just become one of your tedious and facile soundbites
    It would make a lot more sense if we played attacking football, whether that was dominating possession or a more direct in your face style, but there’s nothing about this team that says front footed to me - unless I’m completely misunderstanding what he means by it.
  • People seem to be forgetting that the board seemingly annoyed Powell last season by asking him to come in and assist a manager. He’s also got a good gig with an up and coming manager who could well be managing in the PL in the next few years and Powell could still be his no 2
  • This time last season we were 11th, 21 points from 15 games.

    This season we are 13th, 19 points from 14 games. 

    We’ve shown absolutely no progress whatsoever 
    We will have if we win next week 🙂🙂
  • We can blame NJ for certain signings that haven’t turned out well but we can’t blame him for the following, none of whom are good enough:

    AMB, Watson, Edun, Gillesphey, Edmond’s-Green, maybe even Coventry for some.

    Add in youngsters who have had more game time than they are probably not good enough to have had, Anderson and Kanu and seemingly now Mitchell. Then there is Chuks taking up a place and a wage who again has a long term sick note. Unfortunate injuries to Jones and Ramsay and I dare say the much maligned Ahadme.

    We can blame NJ for the underperforming Docherty, Campbell, the ever injured Potts, the lack of game time for Berry.

    And yes the squad is lopsided, lacks another wide player and a creative midfielder but despite all that is better than our current position. I’m hopeful it will click at some point but we need a good January window. I’ve not given up hope just yet.
  • Big few weeks isn’t it. Couple of wins and win in the cup it all looks better, fail to win and lose at Walsall and the calls will get louder 
  • Sacking isn’t the answer and will do Charlton more harm than good. With the exception of Bowyer we haven’t had a manager who’s completed a full season since Powell ffs. We need stability.

    The recruitment of players needs questioning! We’re lacking in attacking in so many areas I don’t know where the goals are going to come from. Put a Jensen or Matt Holland in that side and we’ll be in a much better position.
  • edited November 10
    Be interesting to see the stats for other successful managers and their performances over the first two seasons at the Clubs where they made their names at.

    Fergie at Man U and Wenger at Arsenal be two good, relatively recent managers, to start with


  • Gribbo said:
    Be interesting to see the stats for other successful managers and their performances over the first two seasons at the Clubs where they made their names at.

    Fergie at Man U and Wenger at Arsenal be two good, relatively recent managers, to start with


    I'd dispute those two as being relatively recent - Ferguson took over the Mancs nearly forty years ago!
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  • Gribbo said:
    Be interesting to see the stats for other successful managers and their performances over the first two seasons at the Clubs where they made their names at.

    Fergie at Man U and Wenger at Arsenal be two good, relatively recent managers, to start with


    I'd dispute those two as being relatively recent - Ferguson took over the Mancs nearly forty years ago!
    Relative to the age of the universe forty years is nothing! 
  • Stability is what needed at CAFC I go bavk
    to the 4 year plan to get promoted and staying up not being a yo-yo club.…  had another look at the table, reading this thread and others was expecting us to be bottom but no we are only 5 points of the play offs!!!! 


  • Stability is what needed at CAFC I go bavk
    to the 4 year plan to get promoted and staying up not being a yo-yo club.…  had another look at the table, reading this thread and others was expecting us to be bottom but no we are only 5 points of the play offs!!!! 


    That's all very well Ronnie, but if you are trying to sell 4 years of dogshite football with the promise of promotion at the end of it, good luck with having any fans left to celebrate with
  • Stability is what needed at CAFC I go bavk
    to the 4 year plan to get promoted and staying up not being a yo-yo club.…  had another look at the table, reading this thread and others was expecting us to be bottom but no we are only 5 points of the play offs!!!! 


    That's all very well Ronnie, but if you are trying to sell 4 years of dogshite football with the promise of promotion at the end of it, good luck with having any fans left to celebrate with
    We have had 4 yrs already, so the frustration is creeping in. This is the best start to the season we have had in those years. That 4 yr promotion plan though is 2 now (at most).
  • edited November 11
    I can completely understand why people want him gone as we've shown no signs of progress at all, but it's worth remembering that he has still only had ONE transfer window. Is that enough time to turn a club around? I would strongly argue that it isn't.

    We can't keep getting rid of managers after a few months.
    I don't disagree, but the idea of giving a manager multiple windows is when you can see that theyre building towards something. Can we confidently say that with Jones?

    A lot of the issues stem from how poor the players he's brought in have been, and how hes trying to make certain players into something they're not (Doc, TC etc). Who's to say any other window he's in charge of will be any better.
  • se9addick said:
    Scoham said:
    I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.

    We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness. 

    Such a deflating situation.

    Am I wrong?

    You're not wrong. 
    We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart.
    Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness.
    Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild.
    That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
    Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
    Curbs. 
    Should have happened years ago. Tactics change, formations change etc, but some things don't change, such as spotting talent, picking the right characters, installing the right culture, having the respect of your players. 
    He's still not that old and old adversaries such as Steve Bruce and Chris Wilder are still doing the business.
    But hey, let's keep moving forward!

    Luton lost 5-1 yesterday…wouldn’t shock me to see Edwards go this week. 
    You may well be right.

    And I think Cardiff are still looking for a full time manager.

    We should make BOTH boards available he's free to go and manage them without them paying any compensation. In fact, we should offer them a few quid to see him on his way.
    What next then ? Who with any track record would touch us with a barge pole ? We’re probably already a club with a reputation of sacking every manager we get within a season or so. It’s almost a poison chalice. I think we only got Jones because he knew the club from before. We need some stability. Jones has done it before and although my belief has diminished, I think he must remain in post for at least next season and for me probably the one after. 
    Chris Powell. Would give this club the lift it needs both on and off the pitch.
    I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some Charlton fans have taken up necromancy in a bid to conjure up the spirit of Jimmy Seed from the netherworld. We really need to move on. 

    Alan Curbishley hasn’t managed a team for centuries and I highly doubt he fancies re-starting that phase of his life with Charlton in a lower place than we were when he last got the job. 

    Chris Powell had one amazing, brilliant, season with us a decade ago but his record as a manager since that season has been pretty terrible. He’s now an established coach/assistant and, frankly, I’d probably leave it at that. 

    Can you imagine if Chris Powell came back with a squad he had no say in putting together and we had a repeat of the "you don't know what your doing" as witnessed at Dagenham. There wasn't respect shown for Chris Powell as he walked off the pitch that game.

    Neil Harris has gone back to Millwall and is doing well but fans are fickle and a losing run can appear with an injury or 9 and hero to zero in half a dozen matches. 

    I tend to agree let's keep the happy memory of the 100+ points season not the Sheff United Q-final defeat or the unrest in Dagenham.
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  • Croydon said:
    I can completely understand why people want him gone as we've shown no signs of progress at all, but it's worth remembering that he has still only had ONE transfer window. Is that enough time to turn a club around? I would strongly argue that it isn't.

    We can't keep getting rid of managers after a few months.
    I don't disagree, but the idea of giving a manager multiple windows is when you can see that theyre building towards something. Can we confidently say that with Jones?

    A lot of the issues stem from how poor the players he's brought in have been, and how hes trying to make certain players into something they're not (Doc, TC etc). Who's to say any other window he's in charge of will be any better.
    I definitely can't confidently say that and like i said i do understand why people want him gone. However it's not inconceivable we get a point at Huddersfield and then we face Burton and Crawley. 7 points from those 3 games and suddenly we're back in the play off hunt again.

    It's a tough one though. On one side you could argue we're 5 points off the play offs, he's had injuries to key players like Jones and Ramsay, plus Leaburn missing the first 2 months of the season and we don't concede many (less than 4 of the current top 6).
    But on the other side you could argue we don't look good at all, the football is dire, we have no creativity and we don't score enough (only 8 sides have scored less than us).

    But overall i think we should give him more time, at least the January window to address our main issues (no creativity and a lack of pace). If it still looks bad post that then everyone would agree he has to go.
  • edited November 11
    Any way you look at it, this is not a good enough start to the season. 



    We have gone from looking defensively solid to concerningly poor, from solid goalkeeping to shaky, from no width and attacking flair to well, no width and attacking flair. 

    We are winning against better sides, drawing to our play off contention rivals and losing to sides we should be beating. 

    I am not lumping it all on Jones as I simply cannot believe he was thrilled with the window and if he was he certainly cannot be thrilled with the performance of individuals or the squad as a whole. 

    We have a high number of injuries, but I am not certain that Jones and Ramsay aside in defence, the differences are that huge in terms of quality of options. 

    We will need an astoundingly good January to get anywhere near the play offs.

    We need an actual striker that is quick and can run channels as needed (Not sure if Dixon could fill that role as TC doesn't seem to?)
    We need fewer CDM's.
    We need to be able to deploy wingers when the narrow formation isn't working - This would probably be best as a 4-5-1 rather than a 3-5-2, something Leaburn should be able to play the top role, but we NEED that real CAM. If KD/TC are injured we then have no wingers available. 

    - We never signed a No.1. 
    - Small has regressed, despite looking more up for the battle than ever.
    - A Mitchell has been less of a leader and a proper 50p head.
    - Gillesphey is simply bang average at best.
    - Coventry doesn't have the passing ability that Declan Rice promised and Taylor and he get in eachother's way.
    - Berry has no engine
    - Godden has desire and effort but lacks pace.
    - Ahadme is still a bit of a donkey, but I am holding out hope for him to find some form. However seems more Bonne than Bonne was.
    - Dixon hasn't been utilised nearly enough, he has shown he is quick and tricky and could be a missing link in our attack. 
    - TC is never a striker, he loses his ability to cut in when being played centrally, thus losing his ability to apply his key attributes - crossing and cut in shots.
    - Docherty Nothing like a captain
    - Anderson another that has regressed, but is young. 
    - Edwards looks a decent signing still.
    - AMB got his chance this season after looking decent in cup games - but didn't exactly look any better than Mannion in the last game. 
    - Kanu being wasted with no game time. 
    - Potts keep forgetting he exists.
    - Aneke looked decent before picking up another injury. My patience has worn out. 
    - Watson a bankrupt man's Sean Clare. 
    - REG Very inconsistent, but inconsistently utilised so won't find form. 
    - Jones looks quality this season - injury is a proper derailing factor so far.
    - Ramsay as above. We need these two back ASAP and with the latter we know that is unlikely.

    I'm losing interest in this season quickly and it saddens me, but I'm sick of the managerial merry go round, so Jones gets until it's clear we won't make the play offs for me. Hopefully, that'll be no earlier than early April. 

  • I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that Jones N is a crank. His touchline antics, erratic interviews, odd team selections .. he's had a couple of good seasons elsewhere along with several bad ones. Like many many managers who build a career and reputation on the 'good' he is living on past results that went his way.
    Mark Robins has been replaced by a Welshman at Coventry, I'd love him to take over at the Valley replacing another Welshman. However, I wonder if after seven turbulent years managing Coventry, he is looking for some r&r for a while and doesn't need another semi basket case managerial role.
    To sum up, Jones is yet another bad appointment by whoever is holding the Charlton power and purse strings at the time
  • Croydon said:
    I can completely understand why people want him gone as we've shown no signs of progress at all, but it's worth remembering that he has still only had ONE transfer window. Is that enough time to turn a club around? I would strongly argue that it isn't.

    We can't keep getting rid of managers after a few months.
    I don't disagree, but the idea of giving a manager multiple windows is when you can see that theyre building towards something. Can we confidently say that with Jones?

    A lot of the issues stem from how poor the players he's brought in have been, and how hes trying to make certain players into something they're not (Doc, TC etc). Who's to say any other window he's in charge of will be any better.
    I definitely can't confidently say that and like i said i do understand why people want him gone. However it's not inconceivable we get a point at Huddersfield and then we face Burton and Crawley. 7 points from those 3 games and suddenly we're back in the play off hunt again.

    It's a tough one though. On one side you could argue we're 5 points off the play offs, he's had injuries to key players like Jones and Ramsay, plus Leaburn missing the first 2 months of the season and we don't concede many (less than 4 of the current top 6).
    But on the other side you could argue we don't look good at all, the football is dire, we have no creativity and we don't score enough (only 8 sides have scored less than us).

    But overall i think we should give him more time, at least the January window to address our main issues (no creativity and a lack of pace). If it still looks bad post that then everyone would agree he has to go.
    Yeah, that's exactly how I see it as well.
  • Scoham said:
    Incidentally Nathan, shut up with the "front footed" thing.
    Front footed is not a bloody tactic or a panacea, it's just become one of your tedious and facile soundbites
    It would make a lot more sense if we played attacking football, whether that was dominating possession or a more direct in your face style, but there’s nothing about this team that says front footed to me - unless I’m completely misunderstanding what he means by it.
    Think our style is more flat footed.
  • Oh and I forgot we still have Edun. 
  • In Bowyer fashion of 9 game blocks:

    Block one - 13/27 (1.44ppg)
    Block two - 6/15 so far (1.2ppg)

    With this trend block 3 could be a disaster at the current rate.
  • Croydon said:
    I can completely understand why people want him gone as we've shown no signs of progress at all, but it's worth remembering that he has still only had ONE transfer window. Is that enough time to turn a club around? I would strongly argue that it isn't.

    We can't keep getting rid of managers after a few months.
    I don't disagree, but the idea of giving a manager multiple windows is when you can see that theyre building towards something. Can we confidently say that with Jones?

    A lot of the issues stem from how poor the players he's brought in have been, and how hes trying to make certain players into something they're not (Doc, TC etc). Who's to say any other window he's in charge of will be any better.
    Jones joined on 4th Feb 2024, I’m not sure any of the players you would consider amongst our best have been signed from that point on. After he came in we signed Wickham and Lua Lua, but in his defence he was hired after the window closed and had to make do with players who were sitting on the sofa in March, so pretty slim pickings. 

    Then we have the players that Jones signed in his only full transfer window this summer and I’m really struggling to think of many of those that have really taken us forward? Maybe Edwards and A Mitchell you would say are pretty decent for this level, Godden too but it’s hard not to feel like he’s just a poor man’s Alfie May. But I don’t think any of Jones’ signings really make you think “he’s building something here, he just needs another window or two and we’ll
    be there”. 
  • I wasn't all that excited to see NJ come in (but people who seemed to have more footy nous than me were) and tbh I would have been OK with giving MA the chance to turn it around (acknowledge that may not have happened) but we need to give him more time - we just can't keep sacking managers.

    I think he's a bit of a bellend but that never stopped anyone being a successful manager.
    I don’t agree with the MA comment mate. I would have made you right if you said the same with Dean Holden. 

    However with MA, we would have been relegated last season, that I am almost certain of!
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