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England Cricket 2024
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I think that they believe that they have enough experience around him at 3 (Crawley or Duckett batting with him followed by Root) and don't want a currently fragile Pope at 6 followed by an inexperienced Bethell at 7 with just bowlers behind them. Stokes has enough experience to know when to stick or twist at 7 whereas Bethell, with all his inexperience, could be in a situation where he doesn't know what to do. Smith has done that job superbly but then he has had 104 FC innings as opposed to Bethell's 30.killerandflash said:
Bethell would be perfectly suited for playing an explosive innings at 7. What he isn't suited to is coming in early on against a seaming new red ball.Addick Addict said:
It's that thing they have a hang up about having someone at 7 who is capable of scoring a ton off 30 balls.killerandflash said:Bethell playing at 3 is a massive leap of faith, for a rookie middle order all rounder.
Pope in some ways won't mind dropping down the order to 6, indeed it's a good opportunity for him to bat in an easier position. Stokes at 7 feels very low, surely one of the senior players should be at 3, with Bethell at 6 or 7?
I've just had a nasty thought though - assuming that Bethell doesn't bat beyond the call of duty, could we see Smith coming back at 3 in the summer and not keeping with Pope staying at 6 and retaining the gloves? Is that why we didn't include a specialist second keeper in the first place and that Robinson will merely be back up if and when he arrives?
Bethell has never batted at 3 and for that reason I'm not sure that they expecting too much of him and that this is to give him experience. They've done that with other players that have played next to zero county cricket (with Bashir being one of them) and is probably a "free hit" to them. Worst case scenario is that he's keeping the seat warm (again in their eyes) for a confidence boosted Pope to return to 3 once Smith is back.
Whether that is muddled thinking time will tell but the fact is that they took Bethell rather than another keeper/batsman such as Robinson as cover for Cox for a reason and that was clearly to give Bethell a chance if the situation gave rise to a batsman dropping out. It's not as if Robinson coming in would have made them, as a batting unit, weaker on paper, than Bethell.0 -
All because Joe Root wont bat at 3.killerandflash said:Bethell playing at 3 is a massive leap of faith, for a rookie middle order all rounder.
Pope in some ways won't mind dropping down the order to 6, indeed it's a good opportunity for him to bat in an easier position. Stokes at 7 feels very low, surely one of the senior players should be at 3, with Bethell at 6 or 7?1 -
There is substance to that but, there again, everything they are doing isn't about this series. It's about the one against India and ultimately the Ashes in a year's time and if England's greatest ever batsman wants to bat now at 4 because that is where he wants to bat against the best sides in the world then he has enough weight of runs behind him to force that decision. Whether that is best for the team is debatable and it's not as if we've lost out second and third wickets in quick succession but the fact is that the further away you are from a moving new ball you are, the easier it is to bat. Kohli (India), Smith (Australia) and Babar (Pakistan) all prefer to bat at 4 whereas Williamson comes in at first drop.golfaddick said:
All because Joe Root wont bat at 3.killerandflash said:Bethell playing at 3 is a massive leap of faith, for a rookie middle order all rounder.
Pope in some ways won't mind dropping down the order to 6, indeed it's a good opportunity for him to bat in an easier position. Stokes at 7 feels very low, surely one of the senior players should be at 3, with Bethell at 6 or 7?0 -
correct decision to drop pope down the order but I agree with the stokes at 3 comments. However, exposing a young inexperienced all rounder to the new ball is crazy. Hasn’t Crawley got a poor record in New Zealand with an average of around 10?
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All set up for a run-a-ball-hundred for Bethell…0
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Got tickets for day one at The Oval against India, looking forward to this
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There's been a real spat in the last 24 hours between Joe Root and Darren Lehmann. Lehmann is wrong in saying that Root can't be considered "an all-time great" until he hits a ton in Australia but, equally, Lehmann was better than just a pundit with an opinion. In fact, if one was to ask any Yorkshire supporter who has contributed more to them as a county and they will, almost certainly, say the Australian.
Lehmann had a Test average of 44.95 (and only didn't play more than 27 Tests because of the strength of the Australian side at the time). In 88 first-class games for the club between 1997 and 2006 (whereas Root has played just 20 in the last decade), Lehmann scored 8,871 runs at an average of 68.76, with 26 hundreds for the county and in 2001 he helped Yorkshire to their first County Championship title since 1968, with 1,416 runs in 13 games at an average of 83.29. He scored 26 centuries with a top score of 339 against Durham in 2006 during his final game for the club, helping Yorkshire to avoid relegation by a single point. Whereas Root was off playing golf when Yorkshire needed him to help them avoid relegation. To Yorkshire supporters Lehmann was a legend whereas Root is an England legend.
Hopefully Root will pin a picture of Lehmann in the England dressing room and that will inspire him to score not just the one hundred in Australia.
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That's why I find it slightly amusing that Anderson is seen as a Lancashire legend, and Broad as a Notts legend, when modern cricketers play so little for their counties. Have either actually won any domestic trophies?
Cook has much more connection with Essex. That he went back to play for them after retiring, and was proud to then win the county championship, shows that.
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Joe Root and lots of others guilelessly falling for the aussie windup.Addick Addict said:There's been a real spat in the last 24 hours between Joe Root and Darren Lehmann. Lehmann is wrong in saying that Root can't be considered "an all-time great" until he hits a ton in Australia but, equally, Lehmann was better than just a pundit with an opinion. In fact, if one was to ask any Yorkshire supporter who has contributed more to them as a county and they will, almost certainly, say the Australian.
Lehmann had a Test average of 44.95 (and only didn't play more than 27 Tests because of the strength of the Australian side at the time). In 88 first-class games for the club between 1997 and 2006 (whereas Root has played just 20 in the last decade), Lehmann scored 8,871 runs at an average of 68.76, with 26 hundreds for the county and in 2001 he helped Yorkshire to their first County Championship title since 1968, with 1,416 runs in 13 games at an average of 83.29. He scored 26 centuries with a top score of 339 against Durham in 2006 during his final game for the club, helping Yorkshire to avoid relegation by a single point. Whereas Root was off playing golf when Yorkshire needed him to help them avoid relegation. To Yorkshire supporters Lehmann was a legend whereas Root is an England legend.
Hopefully Root will pin a picture of Lehmann in the England dressing room and that will inspire him to score not just the one hundred in Australia.
Lehman must be pissing himself
If Joe Root really gave a damn about 'doing his job for England' he'd help out with the batting shortage and apply himself to batting at 3
He'll be coming in often enough against fresh bowlers and hard balls with fat seams with England 2 down, so he might as well apply his supposed talent and experience 5 minutes earlier at no.3 like the 'senior pro' he purports to be. Some practice against a far less threatening Kiwi squad would be ideal, but no, yet another young shaver is being thrown at that particular vacancy with little more than crossed fingers and sound bites as justification.1 -
I’ve just listened to Lehmanns comments, don’t think he said anything wrong.2
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Apparently Bethell is playing because Ollie Robinson's passport had expired which is why he'll only make the second test0
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He expressed an opinion when asked. That's all. Some won't agree with him; hopefully including Joe Root. Although why anyone would take much notice of the sandpapergate coach, I am not sure.Todds_right_hook said:I’ve just listened to Lehmanns comments, don’t think he said anything wrong.1 -
It is a bizarre set of circumstances but is certainly not Ollie or the ECB's fault and it is the reason why there has been no official announcement of Ollie's call up to date. Should Bethell score a ton and Pope do well with the gloves and add meaningful runs to that then he really might be unfortunate to miss out on the tour all together.fenaddick said:Apparently Bethell is playing because Ollie Robinson's passport had expired which is why he'll only make the second test0 -
Odd that any cricketer would let their passport run out, with the international nature of the game with all its franchise leagues, or the chance of playing domestic cricket in Australia.2
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Wasn't criticising at all, although I do agree with @killerandflash that it's just a bit silly really. These things happen though and as you say, could cause a headacheAddick Addict said:
It is a bizarre set of circumstances but is certainly not Ollie or the ECB's fault and it is the reason why there has been no official announcement of Ollie's call up to date. Should Bethell score a ton and Pope do well with the gloves and add meaningful runs to that then he really might be unfortunate to miss out on the tour all together.fenaddick said:Apparently Bethell is playing because Ollie Robinson's passport had expired which is why he'll only make the second test
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It hadn’t run out, i believe you need 6 months extra on your passport or something like that in NZ and that put him in the it’s not valid zone , think he was getting it sorted for a Lions trip in the new yearkillerandflash said:Odd that any cricketer would let their passport run out, with the international nature of the game with all its franchise leagues, or the chance of playing domestic cricket in Australia.
he was given the call on Saturday so will play in 2nd test hopefully0 -
I still think that a cricketer these days has to be aware that they might be called upon to go somewhere at short notice.oohaahmortimer said:
It hadn’t run out, i believe you need 6 months extra on your passport or something like that in NZ and that put him in the it’s not valid zone , think he was getting it sorted for a Lions trip in the new yearkillerandflash said:Odd that any cricketer would let their passport run out, with the international nature of the game with all its franchise leagues, or the chance of playing domestic cricket in Australia.
he was given the call on Saturday so will play in 2nd test hopefully
If the Gobi Desert T10 league had offered him at short notice £200k to play for 2 weeks in October, it would have been annoying to miss out due to a non valid passport
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Can you provide us with your evidence that he was involved in the plan? I'm sure the ICC would be pleased to see that too because he denied all knowledge of that and wasn't sanctioned by Cricket Australia or the ICC.Chizz said:
He expressed an opinion when asked. That's all. Some won't agree with him; hopefully including Joe Root. Although why anyone would take much notice of the sandpapergate coach, I am not sure.Todds_right_hook said:I’ve just listened to Lehmanns comments, don’t think he said anything wrong.
It is understood and it has been verified by others that on the walkie-talkie he said... you guys probably saw it, the first time anyone knew about it was when it came up on the vision screen. He saw that and he radioed down and he said: 'what the f*** is going on?' He said to Peter Handscomb 'find out what the f*** is going on'. Beyond that, I would like to just touch on he brought everyone into the room when the next break was. He basically went through everyone and went 'what is going on?' There are other parts of the investigation that asked lots of questions to try and understand that.
On that basis, though, presumably you don't value the opinion of the former England captain, Michael Atherton, who was caught rubbing dirt that he had collected and put in his pocket on the ball? Or Stuart Broad and Jimmy Anderson who were accused of ball tampering in 2010 during the third Test Match against South Africa. The incident occurred when the bowlers used the spikes on their boots to stop the ball?
Glass houses and all that.1 -
That is, indeed, been the issue. It's still a bit strange that we still haven't had a formal announcement from the ECB of his call up given that not just those this is known by family, friends and others but the Telegraph, Wisden and every other publication know that he has been but are forced to make "cryptic" comments about his situation in relation to that. Perhaps, though, the delay only serves to shine a light on England not taking another recognised keeper (or in the case of Robinson, one that actually does keep for his county) in the first place.oohaahmortimer said:
It hadn’t run out, i believe you need 6 months extra on your passport or something like that in NZ and that put him in the it’s not valid zone , think he was getting it sorted for a Lions trip in the new yearkillerandflash said:Odd that any cricketer would let their passport run out, with the international nature of the game with all its franchise leagues, or the chance of playing domestic cricket in Australia.
he was given the call on Saturday so will play in 2nd test hopefully0 -
cant you get a one day premium passport, I am sure that's an available service1
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It would be a massive ask anyway, a player flying direct from London to NZ, and playing immediately. Keeping for 6 hours with that jetlag would be horrendous!
The real issue is England not picking a backup keeper, and picking 3 spinners instead. OR if they genuinely think Pope is their No 2 keeper, to not then pick someone like Bracey who's more local at the moment. Billings was called up in the last Ashes as he was in Australia at the time.1 -
I think Pope was always an emergency keeper. It was also slightly different with Billings as he played in the 5th and final Test. This regime is, for better or not, consistent with their messaging and giving Bracey that opportunity, rather than Robinson who was next on the rank, would have undermined that. But Robinson should have been there in the first place.killerandflash said:It would be a massive ask anyway, a player flying direct from London to NZ, and playing immediately. Keeping for 6 hours with that jetlag would be horrendous!
The real issue is England not picking a backup keeper, and picking 3 spinners instead. OR if they genuinely think Pope is their No 2 keeper, to not then pick someone like Bracey who's more local at the moment. Billings was called up in the last Ashes as he was in Australia at the time.1 -
Opps, typed a google search into the comment box here. Luckily it wasn’t porn related2
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Imagine being able to leave out the guy who was MOTS in a 3-0 win in India. Can we have Will Young to bat 3?0
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That's the rumour I heard. Why else would he tell the NZ management that he was going to "leave right now"Leuth said:Imagine being able to leave out the guy who was MOTS in a 3-0 win in India. Can we have Will Young to bat 3?4 -
McCullum prefers Gareth Gates anyway, as he's a better golfer.Leuth said:Imagine being able to leave out the guy who was MOTS in a 3-0 win in India. Can we have Will Young to bat 3?3 -
Not England but really good article about the anniversary of Phillip Hughes's death and grief, a real reminder that sportspeople are human and well worth a few minutes of your time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c9wr4j18kego4 -
England won the toss and elected to bowl on what looks a green seamer0
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England have now announced that Ollie Robinson has been added to the Test squad0
