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The 4 minute mile

Blackheathen
Blackheathen Posts: 6,784
in General Charlton
Sam Ruthe became the first 15 year old to run a 4 minute mile last night in Auckland.  He was assisted by two pacesetters and finished the race in 3 minutes 58.35 seconds.  He’s also making great progress in the 3,000 and 5,000 metres.  One to watch.

I recall the sensation (at the time) of Roger Bannister’s achievement in 1954, and being captivated by his subsequent battles with John Landry, Australia.  How times have changed.  Sam was the 49th NZ athlete to break 4 minutes.
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Comments

  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 42,719
    Love the way the pacemaker is looking more elated than the lad. 
  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,960
    John Walker was a fantastic runner back in the 70’s
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,563
    By some fuzzy calculations i make between 2-3% of all people to have run a sub four to be Kiwis. That's insane. Nothing to do with Polynesian DNA because most kiwi middle distance runners are NZ European. Something in the water i guess. Or perhaps we just have a particular interest in the discipline. NZ has about 0.063% of the world's population.
  • CarltonAthleticDance
    CarltonAthleticDance Posts: 199
    Running downunder means that a NZ mile is actually shorter. That would explain things.
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 7,525
    edited March 2025
    CarltonAthleticDance said:
    Running downunder means that a NZ mile is actually shorter. That would explain things.
    It may be shorter, but surely that advantage is offset by being upside down?
  • rina
    rina Posts: 2,373
    KiwiValley said:
    By some fuzzy calculations i make between 2-3% of all people to have run a sub four to be Kiwis. That's insane. Nothing to do with Polynesian DNA because most kiwi middle distance runners are NZ European. Something in the water i guess. Or perhaps we just have a particular interest in the discipline. NZ has about 0.063% of the world's population.
    I would imagine it's because it's a distance that is pretty much not run outside of the english speaking world. it's dominated by brits, americans, kenyans, aussies and kiwis
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,563
    rina said:
    KiwiValley said:
    By some fuzzy calculations i make between 2-3% of all people to have run a sub four to be Kiwis. That's insane. Nothing to do with Polynesian DNA because most kiwi middle distance runners are NZ European. Something in the water i guess. Or perhaps we just have a particular interest in the discipline. NZ has about 0.063% of the world's population.
    I would imagine it's because it's a distance that is pretty much not run outside of the english speaking world. it's dominated by brits, americans, kenyans, aussies and kiwis
    If the discipline was exclusively ran by people of these five nations  (A Morrocan and Algerian are in the top 10 fastest times ever) then NZ would have 1% of the shared populations but 2-3% of the sub fours. A bit more balanced. But still an unusual skew. Interesting.
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 24,066
    Stig said:
    Addick Addict said:
    Love the way the pacemaker is looking more elated than the lad. 
    I was looking at the pacemaker thinking, 'There's no way that bloke's 15'!

    For a split second I thought the 30 mile paper rounds in NZ  before school was the reason why he looked older! 
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall Posts: 3,935
    As a 6 year old I many times broke the 4 minute record from Priory House to Brandon’s Newsagents and back again buying 1/2 ounce of Golden Virginia for my dad on the way. I ran like stink all the way and my dad’s watch always showed I broke 4 minutes proving I was as fast as Roger Bannister. 

    Would be child abuse today.😁

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  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,871
    Who ran the first 4 minute mile?
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 22,319
    shirty5 said:
    John Walker was a fantastic runner back in the 70’s
    I saw him compete at Crystal Palace in the early 80's.
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,929
    bobmunro said:
    Who ran the first 4 minute mile?
    This seems like a trick question…..because everyone knows it was Dr Roger Bannister.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,871
    SoundAsa£ said:
    bobmunro said:
    Who ran the first 4 minute mile?
    This seems like a trick question…..because everyone knows it was Dr Roger Bannister.
    Not sure everyone knows about Bannister, but most will.

    Not a trick as such if you read the question literally.
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,563
    no 'sub' in the question - the answer is the name of the person who was the first person to record a time of  exactly 4 minutes which Uncle ChatGPT tells me was: Paddy Doyle, a British middle-distance runner. He achieved this time on September 19, 1971 at a meet in London. He sounds Irish rather than British but what do i know.
  • Gisappointed
    Gisappointed Posts: 1,304
    I once did a four minute mile, but the traffic in London is so congested I can't see myself repeating it no matter what car I drive.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,871
    KiwiValley said:
    no 'sub' in the question - the answer is the name of the person who was the first person to record a time of  exactly 4 minutes which Uncle ChatGPT tells me was: Paddy Doyle, a British middle-distance runner. He achieved this time on September 19, 1971 at a meet in London. He sounds Irish rather than British but what do i know.
    Give that man a cigar - although only a Hamlet as it wasn't Paddy Doyle.

    Derek Ibbotson

    In finishing fourth behind Herb Elliot's 3:55.4 at the White City in 1958 his time was recorded 4:00.0, the first time this time had been recorded for the distance. A Yorkshireman, "Ibbo" as he was affectionately known, was one of the many fine British middle distance runners in the 1950s.

  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 100,496

  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 30,755
    edited July 19
    Scotland's Josh Kerr breaks 27 year old men's mile world record  with time of three minutes 42.66 seconds in front of sold-out 60,000 London Stadium crowd.


  • Afternoon Delight
    Afternoon Delight Posts: 1,107
    guinnessaddick said:
    Scotland's Josh Kerr breaks 27 year old men's mile world record  with time of three minutes 42.66 seconds in front of sold-out 60,000 London Stadium crowd.


    Yeah I went with a mate, cracking day out topped off with that superb effort. It's lovely as an athletics stadium.

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  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 36,205
    guinnessaddick said:
    Scotland's Josh Kerr breaks 27 year old men's mile world record  with time of three minutes 42.66 seconds in front of sold-out 60,000 London Stadium crowd.


    So we've gone from Roger Bannister running a mile in just under 4 mins in 1954 to Josh Kerr doing it in 3.42 mins 72 years later. 

    Does this evolutionary trend continue meaning we will see a sub 3.30 before the turn of the next century......and a sub 3 min in another 200 years  ?
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 18,447
    golfaddick said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    Scotland's Josh Kerr breaks 27 year old men's mile world record  with time of three minutes 42.66 seconds in front of sold-out 60,000 London Stadium crowd.


    So we've gone from Roger Bannister running a mile in just under 4 mins in 1954 to Josh Kerr doing it in 3.42 mins 72 years later. 

    Does this evolutionary trend continue meaning we will see a sub 3.30 before the turn of the next century......and a sub 3 min in another 200 years  ?
    Its gonna keep improving but there have got to be diminishing marginal returns somewhere causing slowing down in the rate of improvement. Surely!
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 30,755
    cantersaddick said:
    golfaddick said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    Scotland's Josh Kerr breaks 27 year old men's mile world record  with time of three minutes 42.66 seconds in front of sold-out 60,000 London Stadium crowd.


    So we've gone from Roger Bannister running a mile in just under 4 mins in 1954 to Josh Kerr doing it in 3.42 mins 72 years later. 

    Does this evolutionary trend continue meaning we will see a sub 3.30 before the turn of the next century......and a sub 3 min in another 200 years  ?
    Its gonna keep improving but there have got to be diminishing marginal returns somewhere causing slowing down in the rate of improvement. Surely!
    The human aspect will continue a relatively steady pace, the big jumps will be tracks &  footwear. 
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 59,018
    A fantastic run from Josh, he treads a fine line between arrogance and confidence but in a solo sport I think you have to have a bit of that 
  • swords_alive
    swords_alive Posts: 4,936
    A mile in 4 minutes equates to 15 miles in an hour, so 15mph. Not that fast really. Most fit adults can probably do a burst of 20mph easily and that would take a quarter off the 4 minutes, so 3 minutes should be in reach if people could realise that and apply themselves in a concerted way.
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,789
    swords_alive said:
    A mile in 4 minutes equates to 15 miles in an hour, so 15mph. Not that fast really. Most fit adults can probably do a burst of 20mph easily and that would take a quarter off the 4 minutes, so 3 minutes should be in reach if people could realise that and apply themselves in a concerted way.
    Good Lord this is misinformed 😂 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,871
    edited July 20
    swords_alive said:
    A mile in 4 minutes equates to 15 miles in an hour, so 15mph. Not that fast really. Most fit adults can probably do a burst of 20mph easily and that would take a quarter off the 4 minutes, so 3 minutes should be in reach if people could realise that and apply themselves in a concerted way.
    The men's 100m world record is 9.58 seconds, set by Jamaica's Usain Bolt on August 16, 2009, at the World Athletics Championships in Berlin. During this historic race, Bolt reached a top speed of 44.72 km/h (27.78 mph).

    So by your logic, Bolt could run a marathon in less than an hour. I'd love to see that, but I would consider it unlikely that Bolt rarely, if ever, ran more than 200m.
    I could probably run 25 yards in 5 seconds at my age now (69) - which would equate to a marathon in roughly two and a half hours. I can assure that aint happening!

  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 27,999
    Surely we are being whooshed here 
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 30,755
    MrOneLung said:
    Surely we are being whooshed here 
    Depends on how fast they run past.
  • swords_alive
    swords_alive Posts: 4,936
    edited July 21
    bobmunro said:
    swords_alive said:
    A mile in 4 minutes equates to 15 miles in an hour, so 15mph. Not that fast really. Most fit adults can probably do a burst of 20mph easily and that would take a quarter off the 4 minutes, so 3 minutes should be in reach if people could realise that and apply themselves in a concerted way.
    The men's 100m world record is 9.58 seconds, set by Jamaica's Usain Bolt on August 16, 2009, at the World Athletics Championships in Berlin. During this historic race, Bolt reached a top speed of 44.72 km/h (27.78 mph).

    So by your logic, Bolt could run a marathon in less than an hour. I'd love to see that, but I would consider it unlikely that Bolt rarely, if ever, ran more than 200m.
    I could probably run 25 yards in 5 seconds at my age now (69) - which would equate to a marathon in roughly two and a half hours. I can assure that aint happening!

    Just a mile though bob, not a marathon. But i like your example with Usain Bolt. If he was to pace himself and was willing then it would be interesting to see if he or some other professional could extend themselves to a mile. They really have't got to  go that fast to easily take chunks off the current record. 

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