Met don't want to deal with a capacity crowd on the same day as Premier League games happening? I can't imagine clubs, Wembley or the EFL wanting to leave money on the table, so I can't think why else they wouldn't have facilitated a potential sell out?
If there was going to be a problem with a large Wembley crowd on the same day as Premier League matches taking place (and for the time being we'll park the argument regarding why the top flight season hint finished before the FL play-offs) then why weren't the play-off finals spread out over two weekends?
For various reasons in recent seasons there has been a standalone play-off final on one weekend with the other two matches on a different weekend.
Could it be a case of Wembley, for whatever reason (safety certificate / police advice criteria), have a policy of only releasing a significant amount of extra tickets if the other team will realistically only bring under say 15k, and their sales support that.
Eg Millwall received an allocation of 50,000 tickets (not including corporate) for their L1 Play-off v Scunthorpe in 2009, as Scunthorpe pretty quickly run out of steam at c7,000 sold. That was pretty straight forward & they were able to sell 49,661.
In this case, Wembley must have assumed Leyton Orient would sell at least 20,000 tickets. And probably suspected closer to 30,000. Which tbf to them, Orient have sold. Therefore, maybe it isn’t as straightforward as simply putting another 10,000 on sale to Charlton. I know, I know… even if Charlton sold 50,000 & Orient 30,000, that’s still 10,000 below the official capacity of 90,000. Yet, does anyone actually know how many tickets are for corporate, sponsors etc etc? As wasn’t the Cup final only 84,000 announced?!
Met don't want to deal with a capacity crowd on the same day as Premier League games happening? I can't imagine clubs, Wembley or the EFL wanting to leave money on the table, so I can't think why else they wouldn't have facilitated a potential sell out?
Thing is it’s Charlton v Orient. Worst thing that could possibly happen is suffocation by blanket.
Oh I don't know Brownie, ain't there an Orient top boy on their site, looking to garrot Addicks on sight? Pwopa naughty!
Surely the club can only communicate if there is something to communicate?
Or are people suggesting the club should issue a daily update that there is no update?
Given the fact its now Friday afternoon and the game is Sunday, it's more about comms from the club putting pressure on Wembley/EFL, even if there is no update
Nothing to lose from the club by putting public pressure on Wembley.
I am fairly certain the club are putting as much pressure as they can on Wembley to try to get more tickets.
Met don't want to deal with a capacity crowd on the same day as Premier League games happening? I can't imagine clubs, Wembley or the EFL wanting to leave money on the table, so I can't think why else they wouldn't have facilitated a potential sell out?
If there was going to be a problem with a large Wembley crowd on the same day as Premier League matches taking place (and for the time being we'll park the argument regarding why the top flight season hint finished before the FL play-offs) then why weren't the play-off finals spread out over two weekends?
For various reasons in recent seasons there has been a standalone play-off final on one weekend with the other two matches on a different weekend.
Or just move the last day of the PL to midweek. Or next week.
I wonder if its coming down to the fact that they cant issue us more tickets, even if they wanted to, because of how they've stupidly handled the distribution to Leyton Orient - If the only tickets available, are behind Orient supporters, I doubt we'd be given those on safety grounds.
In which case, the argument can be made, as to why have they allowed Orient to "spread out" so much.
I can’t believe we’d be denied tickets just for being in an upper tier above Orient fans there’s plenty of football grounds in the country that do this week in week out, Newcastle and Sunderland immediately spring to mind. Forest too?
the only issue should be avoiding a scenario of both sets of fans entering the ground at the same turnstiles.
Could it be a case of Wembley, for whatever reason (safety certificate / police advice criteria), have a policy of only releasing a significant amount of extra tickets if the other team will realistically only bring under say 15k, and their sales support that.
Eg Millwall received an allocation of 50,000 tickets (not including corporate) for their L1 Play-off v Scunthorpe in 2009, as Scunthorpe pretty quickly run out of steam at c7,000 sold. That was pretty straight forward & they were able to sell 49,661.
In this case, Wembley must have assumed Leyton Orient would sell at least 20,000 tickets. And probably suspected closer to 30,000. Which tbf to them, Orient have sold. Therefore, maybe it isn’t as straightforward as simply putting another 10,000 on sale to Charlton. I know, I know… even if Charlton sold 50,000 & Orient 30,000, that’s still 10,000 below the official capacity of 90,000. Yet, does anyone actually know how many tickets are for corporate, sponsors etc etc? As wasn’t the Cup final only 84,000 announced?!
You lose about 6k seats with the segergation for a cup final now I believe
If I had to take a wild guess, I suspect there won’t be any more tickets this late. I doubt Wembley would be able to get the extra staff in time now at this short notice.
Seeing as Orients general sale window ends at 5pm on Friday, I reckon we will be given a further block by block allocation after then.
Anything before that time then whoever makes that decision is opening themselves up for criticism for ‘moving the goalposts’. Could you imagine if roles were reversed and some of our fans planned to buy on Friday only for the allocation to be reduced and they missed out.
Why would anyone put off buying a ticket ? How does that thought process work? I fancy going to this match but will wait til Friday to purchase my tickets ? I have often wondered why joint Valley Gold / ST got so long to decide if they want to go to a game which is on restricted sale. Sure, prioritise them but don't give them 4 or 5 days and make the process for non joint VG/ST ie all the other genuine fans who want to go panic about buying....
It does not make sense, if sales are slowing then the sooner we get the allocation the less stressful for everyone, particularly as the guy who alluded to the admin required... Madness. But then we are only football fans....
The biggest thing that does not make sense is fans that qualified for certain sales windows could buy for themselves plus 3 other ‘randoms’ that fancy a day out.
Our average gate last season was 15k. That means the Wembley allocation that’s been sold out basically consists of 22k ‘randoms’, some of whom will have got along to a lot of home and/or away games, but not that many.
By ‘randoms’ I meant people without a cafc purchase history. I have a purchase history from being a (lapsed) season ticket holder and was lucky enough to get a ticket when that window opened. Some people I know with similar circumstances weren’t as lucky. I just think being able to get 3 additional tickets for people without history is not fair when others with more Charlton connection miss out.
My frustration is that I have probably been to enough games over the past 2 seasons to have the loyalty points to have bought in the earlier batch, but given the ease of getting tickets previoulsy I have often bought on the gate when making a last minute decision on an evening game, or had tickets bought by who I occasionally go with and not linked the accounts. Therefore I have a lot of "missing" loyalty points because I bought without my fan ID.
If I miss out today and more tickets dont become available I will be very frustrated and may change my view, but I also feel that fans with the huge loyalty point totals and fans with season tickets who go to every home game have earned the right to bring friends/family along for the big day out. I could potentially argue that it should be 2 tickets per fan ID / season ticket etc. (as this would have allowed me to get tickets by now!) but I can see the rationale to get the tickets sold as soon as possible, hopefully filling the stadium
It's a unpopular opinion, but personally I think ST/VG holders should be able to buy 4 tickets as long as everyone has a cafc ID. Nobody should be entitled to bring randoms, just because they've spent money at the club.
Family stands should be for young kids too, not 15/16/17 year olds who are probably having a pint before the match 😆
I don't agree. Plenty of semi regular attenders who don't have an account or fan ID. My wife has never had one but has been to 35 Charlton games since we've been together. Is she not allowed a ticket. Plenty of people who buy for their less computer literate older family and friends who would then miss out.
If you were to do this you'd need to make it really clear and telegraph it 2 years in advance. So that people can set up accounts and build purchase history's for those people. There should also be a reminder with every purchase of multiple tickets to assign them to the right people or risk them not being able to attend big games.
I'm just not sure we are at the point of needing to restict sales like that (yet!).
Canters, I agree somewhat but I would like to extend it to the ability to assign tickets to members regardless of what phase the ‘buyer’ got them. CatJnr dropped his ST a couple of years ago because of shift work but still does up to 20 per year split home and away and normally gets his own tix. For high profile (this year Orient and Wrexham - and playoffs!) I book his tickets as I get priority. Why shouldn’t he get those points too? Same with his gf. She doesn’t even have an account because either him or me book her tickets but she would comfortably qualify for the 150+ point phase
If you book tickets and allocate them to someone they get the points (my lot all do but then we go reguarly and read the instructions). If you don't allocate the tickets to someone how on earth are the club to know?
I can only manage to allocate if the recipients qualify for the phase I buy them in; and it's simple and quick - can you point to me to the instructions on how I can allocate if I buy in a phase they don't qualify for?
As you say, in that particular instance you cannot, because you can't allocate points/credit to someone that is not at that stage entitled to purchase.
However, the first 18 plus aways this season probably didn't have that issue and nor last season, so if you go to most of the games and register the 10 points from home games and 5 points from away games that you are ENTITLED to, then you could comfortably have racked up 600 odd points and I think we only needed 150 to enter. (Plus of course all the cup games and there are usually at least 5 per season).
If I had to take a wild guess, I suspect there won’t be any more tickets this late. I doubt Wembley would be able to get the extra staff in time now at this short notice.
I think you are right . Way too late but if anyone needs a ticket there will be plenty going on the spares thread today and tomorrow. I can’t see anyone missing out
We've already been moved to the 1pm slot, either to "accommodate" sky and the PL or at the request of the police, or both. Now there is a ticket question to be answered on the basis that there is still unmet demand. Once the game is over it's not likely anyone will be interested in asking the question again, let alone fessing up with some answers.
We are stuck with no information, and some with no tickets, and that is indicative of a lack of accountability and its cousin, transparency, also known as treating football fans like crap.
If I had to take a wild guess, I suspect there won’t be any more tickets this late. I doubt Wembley would be able to get the extra staff in time now at this short notice.
Surely they’d have already planned for a capacity crowd? They’ve literally got a game the day before that’s sold out.
Could it be a case of Wembley, for whatever reason (safety certificate / police advice criteria), have a policy of only releasing a significant amount of extra tickets if the other team will realistically only bring under say 15k, and their sales support that.
Eg Millwall received an allocation of 50,000 tickets (not including corporate) for their L1 Play-off v Scunthorpe in 2009, as Scunthorpe pretty quickly run out of steam at c7,000 sold. That was pretty straight forward & they were able to sell 49,661.
In this case, Wembley must have assumed Leyton Orient would sell at least 20,000 tickets. And probably suspected closer to 30,000. Which tbf to them, Orient have sold. Therefore, maybe it isn’t as straightforward as simply putting another 10,000 on sale to Charlton. I know, I know… even if Charlton sold 50,000 & Orient 30,000, that’s still 10,000 below the official capacity of 90,000. Yet, does anyone actually know how many tickets are for corporate, sponsors etc etc? As wasn’t the Cup final only 84,000 announced?!
You lose about 6k seats with the segergation for a cup final now I believe
So, if we apply that here… that’s 84,000 tickets available. But some will be corporate etc etc. Therefore, I suppose there actually isn’t that much wiggle room, unless, as I mooted, you have one club that is obviously going to sell under c15,000. As the initial split then makes sense if you factor in segregation, corporate tickets etc. And if a club sells 70% or more of that split (which Orient have achieved), only a small number of extra tickets will be available for the other club…
If I had to take a wild guess, I suspect there won’t be any more tickets this late. I doubt Wembley would be able to get the extra staff in time now at this short notice.
I think you are right . Way too late but if anyone needs a ticket there will be plenty going on the spares thread today and tomorrow. I can’t see anyone missing out
I think the low key cup final with disinterested man city fans and a puffed up plastic club like palace has lured wembley into a false sense of security. They were totally unprepared for the behemoth. Our support is being held back like the water behind the volta dam - they opened a small 1400 ticket crack yesterday and felt the force that flooded through - wembley are in shock at what we could unleash - it would be a tsunami they couldn't handle. I think the government have set up a cobra meeting.
If I had to take a wild guess, I suspect there won’t be any more tickets this late. I doubt Wembley would be able to get the extra staff in time now at this short notice.
I think you are right . Way too late but if anyone needs a ticket there will be plenty going on the spares thread today and tomorrow. I can’t see anyone missing out
All depends if number of people still needing tickets is in the double or triple figures, or going in to the 1000s. If it's a four-figure number in need of tickets, then the spares thread won't be anywhere near enough.
I wonder if its coming down to the fact that they cant issue us more tickets, even if they wanted to, because of how they've stupidly handled the distribution to Leyton Orient - If the only tickets available, are behind Orient supporters, I doubt we'd be given those on safety grounds.
In which case, the argument can be made, as to why have they allowed Orient to "spread out" so much.
I can’t believe we’d be denied tickets just for being in an upper tier above Orient fans there’s plenty of football grounds in the country that do this week in week out, Newcastle and Sunderland immediately spring to mind. Forest too?
the only issue should be avoiding a scenario of both sets of fans entering the ground at the same turnstiles.
Yeah that's very true, although in those cases they're dealing with a smaller number of the Away fanbase who are probably easier to control and steward - At Wembley they probably see it as the fanbase for that club as a whole (40k etc.) rather than the small section of fans that'll be above the opposition.
Football fans continue to be treated like shit, and are treated like herd mentality at times.
Create an issue with one section of the fans from that club, and they're probably worried they'll upset the whole lot.
Evette Cooper 'I know Palace fans were very excited with their covent garden 'assembly' and their face paint but most were overgrown schoolboys dressed up in PE t shirts, tight shorts and plimsoles - and most were meeting their mum's at their seats - this is different and we don't want another Euro thingy on our hands.
Football requires firm segregation Not just in the seated areas but also in access to the stadium Charlton has the west end of the ground, red and yellow entrances H to P inclusive We could only be allocated additional blocks where we would have discreet access e.g. use entrance G to access a Green block only if no Orient ticket holders would be using that access. With two teams with supporter bases of such differing size, some empty seats are inevitable. Charlton has about 11000 season ticket holders? Based on that a 38000 allocation ain't unreasonable. How many ST's does Orient have?
If Charlton fans are facilitating daytrippers and plastics over and above other fans who couldn't buy this week for whatever reason, that's on them not Wembley, CAFC or the EFL. There's plenty of CAFC tickets available on twatter and elsewhere, suggesting a goodly number of people on Charlton's database bought as many as they could as soon as they could and now have more than they can use - or they always intended to scalp.
Evette Cooper 'I know Palace fans were very excited with their covent garden 'assembly' and their face paint but most were overgrown schoolboys dressed up in PE t shirts, tight shorts and plimsoles - and most were meeting their mum's at their seats - this is different and we don't want another Euro thingy on our hands - are there some asylum seekers we could hand the tickets out to and pretend Orient have sold out?
Please don't ruin a fantastic thread with politic jokes. Just going to cause arguments.
Wembley not feeling it necessary to supporters to provide any information & consequently limited information from Charlton supporters hasn’t helped.
Neither the website that allows seat you clicked to disappear from under you in the Millisecond that it takes to click the basket whilst letting thousands on out of the queue in a mad scramble.
Very disappointed particularly as for days, we have anticipated some tickets unsold to be released. It seemed completely counter to a supposed money making organisation to not optimise sales.
Evette Cooper 'I know Palace fans were very excited with their covent garden 'assembly' and their face paint but most were overgrown schoolboys dressed up in PE t shirts, tight shorts and plimsoles - and most were meeting their mum's at their seats - this is different and we don't want another Euro thingy on our hands - are there some asylum seekers we could hand the tickets out to and pretend Orient have sold out?
Please don't ruin a fantastic thread with politic jokes. Just going to cause arguments.
Football requires firm segregation Not just in the seated areas but also in access to the stadium Charlton has the west end of the ground, red and yellow entrances H to P inclusive We could only be allocated additional blocks where we would have discreet access e.g. use entrance G to access a Green block only if no Orient ticket holders would be using that access. With two teams with supporter bases of such differing size, some empty seats are inevitable. Charlton has about 11000 season ticket holders? Based on that a 38000 allocation ain't unreasonable. How many ST's does Orient have?
If Charlton fans are facilitating daytrippers and plastics over and above other fans who couldn't buy this week for whatever reason, that's on them not Wembley, CAFC or the EFL. There's plenty of CAFC tickets available on twatter and elsewhere, suggesting a goodly number of people on Charlton's database bought as many as they could as soon as they could and now have more than they can use - or they always intended to scalp.
The bulk of the crowd for both clubs will travel and arrive together at Wembley Park. They will then, together, walk up Wembley Way - separating only at the Bobby Moore statue.
Right… having thought about it, I don’t think there is some big conspiracy. Just typical poor British planning & indifference.
The initial allocations must represent the amount of tickets available minus segregation, Club Wembley etc etc. If a club looks very unlikely to sell more than 50% of that allocation, then they can make a quick decision to reallocate some of those to the other club. However, once a club sells over 70% (which Orient have), it means only a small amount of tickets can be released on an ad hoc basis that depends on different variables.
And I guess the attitude may be, that only the likes of Manchester United, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle, Spurs and West Ham can really grumble in terms of allocation, as those are the only clubs that would see season ticket holders miss out on a trip to Wembley.
Everything about Barry Hearn mantra is sell as many tickets as possible so this will have nothing to do with him (has not been involved with Orient other than owning the ground for about 8 years)
Surely the club can only communicate if there is something to communicate?
Or are people suggesting the club should issue a daily update that there is no update?
Given the fact its now Friday afternoon and the game is Sunday, it's more about comms from the club putting pressure on Wembley/EFL, even if there is no update
Nothing to lose from the club by putting public pressure on Wembley.
I am fairly certain the club are putting as much pressure as they can on Wembley to try to get more tickets.
You have more faith in that happening than I do.
I was told today, from a reliable source who would know, that we have asked at least three times since the last batch sold out yesterday but the EFL are not agreeing to our requests.
Comments
For various reasons in recent seasons there has been a standalone play-off final on one weekend with the other two matches on a different weekend.
In this case, Wembley must have assumed Leyton Orient would sell at least 20,000 tickets. And probably suspected closer to 30,000. Which tbf to them, Orient have sold. Therefore, maybe it isn’t as straightforward as simply putting another 10,000 on sale to Charlton. I know, I know… even if Charlton sold 50,000 & Orient 30,000, that’s still 10,000 below the official capacity of 90,000. Yet, does anyone actually know how many tickets are for corporate, sponsors etc etc? As wasn’t the Cup final only 84,000 announced?!
the only issue should be avoiding a scenario of both sets of fans entering the ground at the same turnstiles.
However, the first 18 plus aways this season probably didn't have that issue and nor last season, so if you go to most of the games and register the 10 points from home games and 5 points from away games that you are ENTITLED to, then you could comfortably have racked up 600 odd points and I think we only needed 150 to enter. (Plus of course all the cup games and there are usually at least 5 per season).
We are stuck with no information, and some with no tickets, and that is indicative of a lack of accountability and its cousin, transparency, also known as treating football fans like crap.
Football fans continue to be treated like shit, and are treated like herd mentality at times.
Create an issue with one section of the fans from that club, and they're probably worried they'll upset the whole lot.
Not just in the seated areas but also in access to the stadium
Charlton has the west end of the ground, red and yellow entrances H to P inclusive
We could only be allocated additional blocks where we would have discreet access e.g. use entrance G to access a Green block only if no Orient ticket holders would be using that access.
With two teams with supporter bases of such differing size, some empty seats are inevitable.
Charlton has about 11000 season ticket holders? Based on that a 38000 allocation ain't unreasonable.
How many ST's does Orient have?
If Charlton fans are facilitating daytrippers and plastics over and above other fans who couldn't buy this week for whatever reason, that's on them not Wembley, CAFC or the EFL.
There's plenty of CAFC tickets available on twatter and elsewhere, suggesting a goodly number of people on Charlton's database bought as many as they could as soon as they could and now have more than they can use - or they always intended to scalp.