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Charlie Kirk (p68 - released by Barrow)

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  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
    That was a good listen. I did feel a bit bad for him when he said that he felt he was lumped in with Kirk as a player who didn't care. I never felt that Lavelle was anything other than whole-hearted and full of effort, he just wasn't very good. He started off ok but by the end he wasn't doing really basic stuff like charging down shots and winning aerial duels, he was just there to be beaten by attackers. 

    Also quite interesting that he wasn't that bothered about joining us, felt he did well in his first season and talked about us finishing midtable like that was a positive achievement. I just don't think he has enough about him to play above L2 level and the fact he was happy finishing 13th with Charlton says a lot
  • AberystwythAddick
    AberystwythAddick Posts: 913
    Garrymanilow said:
    That was a good listen. I did feel a bit bad for him when he said that he felt he was lumped in with Kirk as a player who didn't care. I never felt that Lavelle was anything other than whole-hearted and full of effort, he just wasn't very good. He started off ok but by the end he wasn't doing really basic stuff like charging down shots and winning aerial duels, he was just there to be beaten by attackers. 

    Also quite interesting that he wasn't that bothered about joining us, felt he did well in his first season and talked about us finishing midtable like that was a positive achievement. I just don't think he has enough about him to play above L2 level and the fact he was happy finishing 13th with Charlton says a lot
    I thought more or less the same tbh, it really bugged him that he got lumped in with Kirk by the look of it, 

    definitely a mentality thing going from somewhere like morecombe to us it was never going to be a culture fit 
  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,183
    Kirk at a club ,sponsored by a scrap yard. 
    Perhaps he can learn how to cut a car up, or get the lump out of a Focus 
    Might stand him in good stead when he goes tits up.
  • DamoNorthStand
    DamoNorthStand Posts: 10,934
    I completely lost the plot for years after my mum died and it’s still affecting me in a few ways 13 years later. 

    I just have a gut feeling that losing his dad hit him really hard - and that’s based on no knowledge just an opinion. Totally fell to bits on the pitch with us but the year before he joined he was a strong performer at league one level
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,623
    Blucher said:
    At least Kirk has secured employment, albeit at non-league level and presumably for a year at this stage.

    Our other 'big' signing in recent League 1 years, Scott Fraser, is now without a club, having left Dundee after only 5 appearances. 
    Think he struggled to settle north of the border.
  • wmcf123
    wmcf123 Posts: 5,824
    guinnessaddick said:
    Blucher said:
    At least Kirk has secured employment, albeit at non-league level and presumably for a year at this stage.

    Our other 'big' signing in recent League 1 years, Scott Fraser, is now without a club, having left Dundee after only 5 appearances. 
    Think he struggled to settle north of the border.
    2 of my least favourite Charlton players of all time .  
  • Valley11
    Valley11 Posts: 11,985
    Garrymanilow said:
    That was a good listen. I did feel a bit bad for him when he said that he felt he was lumped in with Kirk as a player who didn't care. I never felt that Lavelle was anything other than whole-hearted and full of effort, he just wasn't very good. He started off ok but by the end he wasn't doing really basic stuff like charging down shots and winning aerial duels, he was just there to be beaten by attackers. 

    Also quite interesting that he wasn't that bothered about joining us, felt he did well in his first season and talked about us finishing midtable like that was a positive achievement. I just don't think he has enough about him to play above L2 level and the fact he was happy finishing 13th with Charlton says a lot
    Interesting that Lavelle said he didn’t really want to sign because he was happy at Morecombe and was captain etc…but the money was so much better at Charlton.
    Confirms what we already know that players trot out platitudes in their ‘signing’ interviews, full of cliches when actually they signed for the cash not the kudos. 

    This is what Lavelle said when he joined us:

    He explained he can’t wait to play for Charlton: "I'm over the moon, when it came up a few days ago I was excited to come. The stature of the club is massive, the fanbase is huge, everything about it appealed to me."
  • wmcf123
    wmcf123 Posts: 5,824
    Valley11 said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    That was a good listen. I did feel a bit bad for him when he said that he felt he was lumped in with Kirk as a player who didn't care. I never felt that Lavelle was anything other than whole-hearted and full of effort, he just wasn't very good. He started off ok but by the end he wasn't doing really basic stuff like charging down shots and winning aerial duels, he was just there to be beaten by attackers. 

    Also quite interesting that he wasn't that bothered about joining us, felt he did well in his first season and talked about us finishing midtable like that was a positive achievement. I just don't think he has enough about him to play above L2 level and the fact he was happy finishing 13th with Charlton says a lot
    Interesting that Lavelle said he didn’t really want to sign because he was happy at Morecombe and was captain etc…but the money was so much better at Charlton.
    Confirms what we already know that players trot out platitudes in their ‘signing’ interviews, full of cliches when actually they signed for the cash not the kudos. 

    This is what Lavelle said when he joined us:

    He explained he can’t wait to play for Charlton: "I'm over the moon, when it came up a few days ago I was excited to come. The stature of the club is massive, the fanbase is huge, everything about it appealed to me."
    Media training .  They aren’t as bad as tennis players but they are told what to say to every question .  Ultimately it’s a job to them - I don’t blame them for that .  
  • Uboat
    Uboat Posts: 12,195
    ‘I didn’t really want to come here, because I don’t like London and the manager seems like a weirdo, but when I saw the wages they were offering me I couldn’t wait to sign.’
  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,413
    He'll probably go back to the college campuses now
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  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,484
    Uboat said:
    ‘I didn’t really want to come here, because I don’t like London and the manager seems like a weirdo, but when I saw the wages they were offering me I couldn’t wait to sign.’
    Then went Barrow

    Although there's some lovely country around the town tbf
  • AberystwythAddick
    AberystwythAddick Posts: 913
    Gribbo said:
    Uboat said:
    ‘I didn’t really want to come here, because I don’t like London and the manager seems like a weirdo, but when I saw the wages they were offering me I couldn’t wait to sign.’
    Then went Barrow

    Although there's some lovely country around the town tbf
    Tbf Barrow has quite a lot of night life due to the BAE shipyards 
  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,484
    AberystwythAddick said:
    Gribbo said:
    Uboat said:
    ‘I didn’t really want to come here, because I don’t like London and the manager seems like a weirdo, but when I saw the wages they were offering me I couldn’t wait to sign.’
    Then went Barrow

    Although there's some lovely country around the town tbf
    Tbf Barrow has quite a lot of night life due to the BAE shipyards 
    I know, I worked there for the last 3 years and its a hideous place, morning, noon and night.

    £2 25 a pint in the King's though 
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 844
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
  • ElliotCAFC
    ElliotCAFC Posts: 2,552
    edited July 30
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    Yes, but it gets to a point where your personal issues don’t justify your behaviour at work. Even Sam Lavelle mentioned his dad passing, but made a point of saying Charlie Kirk didn’t help himself, heavily implying throughout how unprofessional he was. 

    Losing his Dad is terribly sad and and the timing of the move was a recipe for disaster, but he declared himself fit to play and according to this interview, he couldn’t care less if we lose.
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 3,802
    losing a parent is horrific.

    I seem to recall Scott Parker playing a fixture the day after his Dad passed away and I think he put in and MoM performance to make him Proud. People react in different ways, it doesn’t make Kirk a bad person - but the response and mentality is why he’s barely a professional footballer and some others (Parker) are truly elite athletes 

    You can have all the talent in the world but if you don’t have the mentality…
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    edited July 30
    You know……I cannot ever remember anyone at the club suggesting that he was overly distressed over his father’s death. I have only ever seen these assumptions on CL where it seems to have become accepted as having been factual.
    Yes, we all handle these things in different ways and I’m sure he was very very upset but to the point of life around him almost coming to a full stop…..well I’m not sure about that.
    As I say, who within the club (including the players), have ever stated that as being the case with Kirk.
  • HandG
    HandG Posts: 2,134

    I would never have given Sam Lavelle stick because he gave everything but just wasn’t good enough. 

    Kirk wasn’t good enough either but coupled with a consistent lack of effort and bottle. Appreciate his dad dying must have been tough, but life is tough - you’re paid to do a job now go out and do it. Sorry if that sounds harsh but he wasn’t going through anything that the majority of people have to go through.

    And not sure that his Dad dying was the reason that he pulled out of challenges and spent more time fixing his shit barnet….

  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,348
    edited July 30
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    It seems player mental health is becoming a bigger topic these days, which is a good thing. But it also feels at odds with the competitive nature of football. Results matter arguably more than ever, and failure has consequences for other people. A player's personal issues can be tragic, but poor performances still hurt the club, their teammates, manager and the fans. 

    I sympathise with Kirk the person. But as a fan I still judge the performances he gave the club. And as a fan my loyalty is to the club first. 
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 844
    Chunes said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    It seems player mental health is becoming a bigger topic these days, which is a good thing. But it also feels at odds with the competitive nature of football. Results matter arguably more than ever, and failure has consequences for other people. A player's personal issues can be tragic, but poor performances still hurt the club, their teammates, manager and the fans. 

    I sympathise with Kirk the person. But as a fan I still judge the performances he gave the club. And as a fan my loyalty is to the club first. 
    Yes I agree to a point, is Kirk welcome back at the Valley ? No of course not and we all know why. What I find distasteful is the glee some have with his fall from grace.
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  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,484
    edited July 31
    Radostanradical said:
    Chunes said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    It seems player mental health is becoming a bigger topic these days, which is a good thing. But it also feels at odds with the competitive nature of football. Results matter arguably more than ever, and failure has consequences for other people. A player's personal issues can be tragic, but poor performances still hurt the club, their teammates, manager and the fans. 

    I sympathise with Kirk the person. But as a fan I still judge the performances he gave the club. And as a fan my loyalty is to the club first. 
    Yes I agree to a point, is Kirk welcome back at the Valley ? No of course not and we all know why. What I find distasteful is the glee some have with his fall from grace.
    He didn't do well and didn't seem to put much effort in. Apparently, he even took a bit of pleasure in our misfortune. He’s getting some stick in return - that's football, that's theatre.

    Hand on heart, if Charlton fans were made aware at any point that he was genuinely struggling with his mental health, there's not a better set of supporters to rally behind him and help him through it, regardless of his form on the pitch.

    I do think you're slightly over-analysing the situation, to be honest.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,034
    edited July 31
    I have every sympathy for his loss, probably like everybody else on here.

    He could always have not signed for us and stayed up North, or taken a hit on his contract when things were eventually too much for him.

    He looked to the money.
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 844
    Gribbo said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Chunes said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    It seems player mental health is becoming a bigger topic these days, which is a good thing. But it also feels at odds with the competitive nature of football. Results matter arguably more than ever, and failure has consequences for other people. A player's personal issues can be tragic, but poor performances still hurt the club, their teammates, manager and the fans. 

    I sympathise with Kirk the person. But as a fan I still judge the performances he gave the club. And as a fan my loyalty is to the club first. 
    Yes I agree to a point, is Kirk welcome back at the Valley ? No of course not and we all know why. What I find distasteful is the glee some have with his fall from grace.
    He didn't do well and didn't seem to put much effort in. Apparently, he even took a bit of pleasure in our misfortune. He’s getting some stick in return - that's football, that's theatre.

    Hand on heart, if Charlton fans were made aware at any point that he was genuinely struggling with his mental health, there's not a better set of supporters to rally behind him and help him through it, regardless of his form on the pitch.

    I do think you're slightly over-analysing the situation, to be honest.
    Where on off have you got that he took pleasure in our misfortune ? If its from the Lavelle video, id suggest it you who is over-analysing.
  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,484
    Radostanradical said:
    Gribbo said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Chunes said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    It seems player mental health is becoming a bigger topic these days, which is a good thing. But it also feels at odds with the competitive nature of football. Results matter arguably more than ever, and failure has consequences for other people. A player's personal issues can be tragic, but poor performances still hurt the club, their teammates, manager and the fans. 

    I sympathise with Kirk the person. But as a fan I still judge the performances he gave the club. And as a fan my loyalty is to the club first. 
    Yes I agree to a point, is Kirk welcome back at the Valley ? No of course not and we all know why. What I find distasteful is the glee some have with his fall from grace.
    He didn't do well and didn't seem to put much effort in. Apparently, he even took a bit of pleasure in our misfortune. He’s getting some stick in return - that's football, that's theatre.

    Hand on heart, if Charlton fans were made aware at any point that he was genuinely struggling with his mental health, there's not a better set of supporters to rally behind him and help him through it, regardless of his form on the pitch.

    I do think you're slightly over-analysing the situation, to be honest.
    Where on off have you got that he took pleasure in our misfortune ? If its from the Lavelle video, id suggest it you who is over-analysing.
    Didn't he like posts on social media celebrating us loosing on a couple of occasions?

    I could be wrong though.

    I've not seen the Lavelle video, so I dont know.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,034
    Gribbo said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Gribbo said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Chunes said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    It seems player mental health is becoming a bigger topic these days, which is a good thing. But it also feels at odds with the competitive nature of football. Results matter arguably more than ever, and failure has consequences for other people. A player's personal issues can be tragic, but poor performances still hurt the club, their teammates, manager and the fans. 

    I sympathise with Kirk the person. But as a fan I still judge the performances he gave the club. And as a fan my loyalty is to the club first. 
    Yes I agree to a point, is Kirk welcome back at the Valley ? No of course not and we all know why. What I find distasteful is the glee some have with his fall from grace.
    He didn't do well and didn't seem to put much effort in. Apparently, he even took a bit of pleasure in our misfortune. He’s getting some stick in return - that's football, that's theatre.

    Hand on heart, if Charlton fans were made aware at any point that he was genuinely struggling with his mental health, there's not a better set of supporters to rally behind him and help him through it, regardless of his form on the pitch.

    I do think you're slightly over-analysing the situation, to be honest.
    Where on off have you got that he took pleasure in our misfortune ? If its from the Lavelle video, id suggest it you who is over-analysing.
    Didn't he like posts on social media celebrating us loosing on a couple of occasions?

    I could be wrong though.

    I've not seen the Lavelle video, so I dont know.
    That's a shocker if true.
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,650
    edited July 31
    Just shows you how quickly you can tumble down the footballing pyramid.

    Sure things didn’t work out, for us, or him, maybe more so for him financially.

    I couldn’t believe the hype when we signed him, you would have thought we were signing a peak version of Ronaldo!

    With hindsight, we shouldn’t have signed him, but then we’ve had so many players in the last 20 years, that have not been up to it, for what ever reason, and I just put him in the same category.

    I just hope he finds some happiness,losing a parent at any age is tough, losing a parent when you’re young is even harder.
  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,458
    Garrymanilow said:
    That was a good listen. I did feel a bit bad for him when he said that he felt he was lumped in with Kirk as a player who didn't care. I never felt that Lavelle was anything other than whole-hearted and full of effort, he just wasn't very good. He started off ok but by the end he wasn't doing really basic stuff like charging down shots and winning aerial duels, he was just there to be beaten by attackers. 

    Also quite interesting that he wasn't that bothered about joining us, felt he did well in his first season and talked about us finishing midtable like that was a positive achievement. I just don't think he has enough about him to play above L2 level and the fact he was happy finishing 13th with Charlton says a lot
    Yeah, I found that bit interesting. Did anyone on here ever say that about him? If not, where has that idea come from? I always felt he gave 100%, despite his limitations.
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 844
    Gribbo said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Gribbo said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Chunes said:
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.
    It seems player mental health is becoming a bigger topic these days, which is a good thing. But it also feels at odds with the competitive nature of football. Results matter arguably more than ever, and failure has consequences for other people. A player's personal issues can be tragic, but poor performances still hurt the club, their teammates, manager and the fans. 

    I sympathise with Kirk the person. But as a fan I still judge the performances he gave the club. And as a fan my loyalty is to the club first. 
    Yes I agree to a point, is Kirk welcome back at the Valley ? No of course not and we all know why. What I find distasteful is the glee some have with his fall from grace.
    He didn't do well and didn't seem to put much effort in. Apparently, he even took a bit of pleasure in our misfortune. He’s getting some stick in return - that's football, that's theatre.

    Hand on heart, if Charlton fans were made aware at any point that he was genuinely struggling with his mental health, there's not a better set of supporters to rally behind him and help him through it, regardless of his form on the pitch.

    I do think you're slightly over-analysing the situation, to be honest.
    Where on off have you got that he took pleasure in our misfortune ? If its from the Lavelle video, id suggest it you who is over-analysing.
    Didn't he like posts on social media celebrating us loosing on a couple of occasions?

    I could be wrong though.

    I've not seen the Lavelle video, so I dont know.
    Not that im aware.
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    Radostanradical said:
    Quite bizarre to see the amount of sneers thrown at a player who came to us during a massive personal issue and it didnt work out for him, from some of the people who will speak about mental health issues. Schadenfreude is very ugly.

    The criticism for Charlie Kirk wasn't about the beginning of his tenure but the later time he was at CAFC when it was clear he was lightweight and had no appetite for the fight.
    In one match I took my seat early as I have always been interested in seeing not just the drills but the body language of players. In one of the first touch drills, Kirk went down after a slight coming together with Pearce; to say Jason gave him a look of utter contempt is an understatement. Charlie sat down outside the circle and it was noticeable no one enquired how he was and it felt this was a regular occurrence.

    Just one example out of so many:
    Charlton played the mighty Cray valley paper mills in the FA cup and CAFC played reserve players, so Charlie gets a game.
    A Part time player for CVPM wins the ball with fair contact and Kirk goes down with arms waving for a foul. The opposition player runs clear and we nearly concede.

    So many young professional sports people lose a parent or grandparent, even siblings during their careers. Toone and Mead from the Lionesses with a dad for Ella and her mum in Beth's case. Hampton lost her Grandad days before the Euros started.

    Obviously the passing of a close relative is different for all individuals but soon after Charlie joined Charlton he was talking and pictured having a night out with his hairdresser partner. 

    Charlie Kirk didn't impress his team mates and that is more telling than fans or critics.
  • KingKinsella
    KingKinsella Posts: 1,310
    I think the talent spotting/recruitment is the issue, less CK himself.Does a leopard change his spots? unless you say that Kirk previously dived into crunching tackles with all opposition at his previous club? No I don't think so. He was always in the category of "High skill, low physicality" group, add to that not especially fast and subsequent attitude issues. He should have been sussed out by CAFC in recruitment stage and rejected. I can remember several contributors saying that he was backed up at ?Crewe by a strong defender, which he didn't get here.
    Whatever his "talent", its tough to take such a public slide down the ladder and he has some sympathy from me.

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