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Oi you lot, Rob Apter. Whats going on ?
Comments
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I hope you're right and the proof is in the pudding. But Jones's decision not to play him over an injured player in a game where we need a goal, speaks volumes.Scoham said:
Not disagreeing that Small’s doing better this season, but there’s a lot more to come from Apter - if we can get the best out of him their overall stats show he’s a more natural goalscorer and better at creating chances.J BLOCK said:
Small is getting rave reviews from PNE fans for his performances this season, is a regular starter and has 4 G/A. Apter can't even get on to replace an injured James Bree.Scoham said:
He comfortably outscored Small last season, and that wasn’t because Small didn’t get chances - he’s not a good finisher.J BLOCK said:
Massively disagree.Scoham said:Jones rates Bree very highly and without Edwards on the left he presumably wants to keep the balance of the team, with four natural defenders plus an attacking WB who tracks back to form a back five.
I don’t get why he didn’t come on yesterday, especially now we know Bree couldn’t even take a set piece.
He can still be a success as an attacking WB who becomes a winger in possession. He won’t do that if he doesn’t get more game time. He has more goals and assists in him than Small, which is what we need from the more attacking WB - he’s not failed at being a great defensive WB because that was never the expectation.
NJ signing then using Hernandez and yesterday TC at WB shows it’s still the plan.
Assists is more debatable, but Apter I think is a better crosser, and the stats last season show he scored and created more chances. He had more minutes but not a huge amount, and of course we had a better team than Blackpool given we got promoted.
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Leuth nailed it with his comment in October....
'He let a QPR player sneak past him to score then had a poor half against Millwall, and his replacement has essentially been some unearthly hybrid of Beckham and Cafu. He'll get another go soon'
I wonder how much NJ/CAFC relies/looks at data ?6 -
It does seem like something odd has happened between him and Jones, given the lack of opportunities after a decent start to the season - even allowing for Bree's impact.
Personally I would like to see him tried in a genuine central No 10 role. He is one of our few creative players who can beat his man, go both ways with ball at feet and pick a pass. Playing at 10, able to get on the ball with fewer defensive responsibilities, I think could make a big difference to us (and him) and give us more attacking threat. It would mean slightly tweaking Carey's role, but he's good enough to adapt. In fact, I'm going to bark this at Nathan next time I see him.4 -
Interestingly a lot of Blackpool fans mentioned Apter long term projected as a 10. Would like to see it at least tried off the bench .kielyskickingboots said:It does seem like something odd has happened between him and Jones, given the lack of opportunities after a decent start to the season - even allowing for Bree's impact.
Personally I would like to see him tried in a genuine central No 10 role. He is one of our few creative players who can beat his man, go both ways with ball at feet and pick a pass. Playing at 10, able to get on the ball with fewer defensive responsibilities, I think could make a big difference to us (and him) and give us more attacking threat. It would mean slightly tweaking Carey's role, but he's good enough to adapt. In fact, I'm going to bark this at Nathan next time I see him.1 -
But Jones explained that. If we’d played Apter we’d have had Apter and TC as wing backs, two centre halves who were ill and Gilly. So basically one fit natural defender in a back five.J BLOCK said:
I hope you're right and the proof is in the pudding. But Jones's decision not to play him over an injured player in a game where we need a goal, speaks volumes.Scoham said:
Not disagreeing that Small’s doing better this season, but there’s a lot more to come from Apter - if we can get the best out of him their overall stats show he’s a more natural goalscorer and better at creating chances.J BLOCK said:
Small is getting rave reviews from PNE fans for his performances this season, is a regular starter and has 4 G/A. Apter can't even get on to replace an injured James Bree.Scoham said:
He comfortably outscored Small last season, and that wasn’t because Small didn’t get chances - he’s not a good finisher.J BLOCK said:
Massively disagree.Scoham said:Jones rates Bree very highly and without Edwards on the left he presumably wants to keep the balance of the team, with four natural defenders plus an attacking WB who tracks back to form a back five.
I don’t get why he didn’t come on yesterday, especially now we know Bree couldn’t even take a set piece.
He can still be a success as an attacking WB who becomes a winger in possession. He won’t do that if he doesn’t get more game time. He has more goals and assists in him than Small, which is what we need from the more attacking WB - he’s not failed at being a great defensive WB because that was never the expectation.
NJ signing then using Hernandez and yesterday TC at WB shows it’s still the plan.
Assists is more debatable, but Apter I think is a better crosser, and the stats last season show he scored and created more chances. He had more minutes but not a huge amount, and of course we had a better team than Blackpool given we got promoted.3 -
Maybe, but not playing could be for many different reasons. We also paid a big fee (for us) and gave him a long term contract.J BLOCK said:
I hope you're right and the proof is in the pudding. But Jones's decision not to play him over an injured player in a game where we need a goal, speaks volumes.Scoham said:
Not disagreeing that Small’s doing better this season, but there’s a lot more to come from Apter - if we can get the best out of him their overall stats show he’s a more natural goalscorer and better at creating chances.J BLOCK said:
Small is getting rave reviews from PNE fans for his performances this season, is a regular starter and has 4 G/A. Apter can't even get on to replace an injured James Bree.Scoham said:
He comfortably outscored Small last season, and that wasn’t because Small didn’t get chances - he’s not a good finisher.J BLOCK said:
Massively disagree.Scoham said:Jones rates Bree very highly and without Edwards on the left he presumably wants to keep the balance of the team, with four natural defenders plus an attacking WB who tracks back to form a back five.
I don’t get why he didn’t come on yesterday, especially now we know Bree couldn’t even take a set piece.
He can still be a success as an attacking WB who becomes a winger in possession. He won’t do that if he doesn’t get more game time. He has more goals and assists in him than Small, which is what we need from the more attacking WB - he’s not failed at being a great defensive WB because that was never the expectation.
NJ signing then using Hernandez and yesterday TC at WB shows it’s still the plan.
Assists is more debatable, but Apter I think is a better crosser, and the stats last season show he scored and created more chances. He had more minutes but not a huge amount, and of course we had a better team than Blackpool given we got promoted.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the doubts are about other areas of his game, rather than what he offers going forward. We know how keen NJ is on what he calls the basics. If he doesn’t do those to a high enough standard he won’t get in the team, even if his attacking play is there.
It’s still early enough in the season for him to improve, get for game time and make an impact in terms of goals and assists.0 -
Yep. And at least with TC his covering defender was Gillesphey, while Apter would have been covered by Ramsay, who according to his post match interview with Louis had basically been in bed ill all week.LargeAddick said:
But Jones explained that. If we’d played Apter we’d have had Apter and TC as wing backs, two centre halves who were ill and Gilly. So basically one fit natural defender in a back five.J BLOCK said:
I hope you're right and the proof is in the pudding. But Jones's decision not to play him over an injured player in a game where we need a goal, speaks volumes.Scoham said:
Not disagreeing that Small’s doing better this season, but there’s a lot more to come from Apter - if we can get the best out of him their overall stats show he’s a more natural goalscorer and better at creating chances.J BLOCK said:
Small is getting rave reviews from PNE fans for his performances this season, is a regular starter and has 4 G/A. Apter can't even get on to replace an injured James Bree.Scoham said:
He comfortably outscored Small last season, and that wasn’t because Small didn’t get chances - he’s not a good finisher.J BLOCK said:
Massively disagree.Scoham said:Jones rates Bree very highly and without Edwards on the left he presumably wants to keep the balance of the team, with four natural defenders plus an attacking WB who tracks back to form a back five.
I don’t get why he didn’t come on yesterday, especially now we know Bree couldn’t even take a set piece.
He can still be a success as an attacking WB who becomes a winger in possession. He won’t do that if he doesn’t get more game time. He has more goals and assists in him than Small, which is what we need from the more attacking WB - he’s not failed at being a great defensive WB because that was never the expectation.
NJ signing then using Hernandez and yesterday TC at WB shows it’s still the plan.
Assists is more debatable, but Apter I think is a better crosser, and the stats last season show he scored and created more chances. He had more minutes but not a huge amount, and of course we had a better team than Blackpool given we got promoted.0 -
This all makes sense regarding starting. It’s the fact that when we were chasing the game and needed a goal he still didn’t get a look in, and that has been the case on previous occasions tooaliwibble said:
Yep. And at least with TC his covering defender was Gillesphey, while Apter would have been covered by Ramsay, who according to his post match interview with Louis had basically been in bed ill all week.LargeAddick said:
But Jones explained that. If we’d played Apter we’d have had Apter and TC as wing backs, two centre halves who were ill and Gilly. So basically one fit natural defender in a back five.J BLOCK said:
I hope you're right and the proof is in the pudding. But Jones's decision not to play him over an injured player in a game where we need a goal, speaks volumes.Scoham said:
Not disagreeing that Small’s doing better this season, but there’s a lot more to come from Apter - if we can get the best out of him their overall stats show he’s a more natural goalscorer and better at creating chances.J BLOCK said:
Small is getting rave reviews from PNE fans for his performances this season, is a regular starter and has 4 G/A. Apter can't even get on to replace an injured James Bree.Scoham said:
He comfortably outscored Small last season, and that wasn’t because Small didn’t get chances - he’s not a good finisher.J BLOCK said:
Massively disagree.Scoham said:Jones rates Bree very highly and without Edwards on the left he presumably wants to keep the balance of the team, with four natural defenders plus an attacking WB who tracks back to form a back five.
I don’t get why he didn’t come on yesterday, especially now we know Bree couldn’t even take a set piece.
He can still be a success as an attacking WB who becomes a winger in possession. He won’t do that if he doesn’t get more game time. He has more goals and assists in him than Small, which is what we need from the more attacking WB - he’s not failed at being a great defensive WB because that was never the expectation.
NJ signing then using Hernandez and yesterday TC at WB shows it’s still the plan.
Assists is more debatable, but Apter I think is a better crosser, and the stats last season show he scored and created more chances. He had more minutes but not a huge amount, and of course we had a better team than Blackpool given we got promoted.3 -
Assuming Bree won't be able to play against Southampton as he's on loan maybe Apter will get his chance then0
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It will be very telling if he doesn’t @fat man on a moped1
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Id rather have hospital bed covering than hospital ball!aliwibble said:
Yep. And at least with TC his covering defender was Gillesphey, while Apter would have been covered by Ramsay, who according to his post match interview with Louis had basically been in bed ill all week.LargeAddick said:
But Jones explained that. If we’d played Apter we’d have had Apter and TC as wing backs, two centre halves who were ill and Gilly. So basically one fit natural defender in a back five.J BLOCK said:
I hope you're right and the proof is in the pudding. But Jones's decision not to play him over an injured player in a game where we need a goal, speaks volumes.Scoham said:
Not disagreeing that Small’s doing better this season, but there’s a lot more to come from Apter - if we can get the best out of him their overall stats show he’s a more natural goalscorer and better at creating chances.J BLOCK said:
Small is getting rave reviews from PNE fans for his performances this season, is a regular starter and has 4 G/A. Apter can't even get on to replace an injured James Bree.Scoham said:
He comfortably outscored Small last season, and that wasn’t because Small didn’t get chances - he’s not a good finisher.J BLOCK said:
Massively disagree.Scoham said:Jones rates Bree very highly and without Edwards on the left he presumably wants to keep the balance of the team, with four natural defenders plus an attacking WB who tracks back to form a back five.
I don’t get why he didn’t come on yesterday, especially now we know Bree couldn’t even take a set piece.
He can still be a success as an attacking WB who becomes a winger in possession. He won’t do that if he doesn’t get more game time. He has more goals and assists in him than Small, which is what we need from the more attacking WB - he’s not failed at being a great defensive WB because that was never the expectation.
NJ signing then using Hernandez and yesterday TC at WB shows it’s still the plan.
Assists is more debatable, but Apter I think is a better crosser, and the stats last season show he scored and created more chances. He had more minutes but not a huge amount, and of course we had a better team than Blackpool given we got promoted.0 -
If, as some on here think, NJ had a problem with him he wouldn't even get a place on the bench.6
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One could also have assumed “if Leaburn was injured he wouldn’t have even got a place on the bench”southamptonaddick said:If, as some on here think, NJ had a problem with him he wouldn't even get a place on the bench.
NJ also played Small most of last season, and May the season before, despite not fancying either player.2 -
Leaburn wasn't on the bench after the warm-up, and was replaced by Josh Laq.paulsturgess said:
One could also have assumed “if Leaburn was injured he wouldn’t have even got a place on the bench”southamptonaddick said:If, as some on here think, NJ had a problem with him he wouldn't even get a place on the bench.
NJ also played Small most of last season, and May the season before, despite not fancying either player.5 -
Oh, fair. Didn’t realise that!Chunes said:
Leaburn wasn't on the bench after the warm-up, and was replaced by Josh Laq.paulsturgess said:
One could also have assumed “if Leaburn was injured he wouldn’t have even got a place on the bench”southamptonaddick said:If, as some on here think, NJ had a problem with him he wouldn't even get a place on the bench.
NJ also played Small most of last season, and May the season before, despite not fancying either player.1 -
I’d love to see a Coventry & Carey pivot with Apter further forward in the 10. I think that would be exciting. The kid is good and something must have gone wrong behind the scenes for him to not even get 5 mins2
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Not necessarily - managers often have players on the bench that they have no intention of using, for any number of reasons.southamptonaddick said:If, as some on here think, NJ had a problem with him he wouldn't even get a place on the bench.
Sometimes it's lack of numbers, sometimes lack of full fitness, sometimes it's to wind the player up/teach him a lesson/'motivate' him, sometimes it's because they don't want their Chairman saying 'you made me pay good money for him in the summer and now we have academy kids in front of him and he's not good enough for the bench?!!' sometimes it's to minimise the 'where is he, what's wrong with him?' questions from media and fans if they were left out entirely. Then they can say it was for tactical reasons. I know this because my nephew has played in all four top divisions and is currently playing in League One - and so I know it definitely happens.
Selection isn't always as straightforward as we fans think - especially on the bench. I don't know if this is the case with Apter, but his use of late has looked odd. And definitely can't assume that there is no issue because the manager has him on the bench.5 -
Quite.kielyskickingboots said:
Not necessarily - managers often have players on the bench that they have no intention of using, for any number of reasons.southamptonaddick said:If, as some on here think, NJ had a problem with him he wouldn't even get a place on the bench.
Sometimes it's lack of numbers, sometimes lack of full fitness, sometimes it's to wind the player up/teach him a lesson/'motivate' him, sometimes it's because they don't want their Chairman saying 'you made me pay good money for him in the summer and now we have academy kids in front of him and he's not good enough for the bench?!!' sometimes it's to minimise the 'where is he, what's wrong with him?' questions from media and fans if they were left out entirely. Then they can say it was for tactical reasons. I know this because my nephew has played in all four top divisions and is currently playing in League One - and so I know it definitely happens.
Selection isn't always as straightforward as we fans think - especially on the bench. I don't know if this is the case with Apter, but his use of late has looked odd. And definitely can't assume that there is no issue because the manager has him on the bench.1 -
I don't think moving our top scorer back should be on the agenda just yet.Champs85 said:I’d love to see a Coventry & Carey pivot with Apter further forward in the 10. I think that would be exciting. The kid is good and something must have gone wrong behind the scenes for him to not even get 5 mins7 -
I'd definitely be upset unless he took me out for dinner first.Bournesnr said:I find the whole vibe from some fans that we lose one match so something behind the scenes must be wrong strange and if I were a manager I’d rather my players were a bit upset if I pulled them off.8 -
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He looks lightweight a t m, if he can beef up a bit yet still retain his pace and 'elusiveness' he'll be ok1
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My take (from limited games he has been in), is jones probably has a question mark over his athleticism to step up a level. Possibly the same with knibbs1
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I wouldn't like to see us tear up our entire strategy to accommodate a player as a traditional 10, a position we don't use, who has never played as a 10 before. The idea of Nathan Jones having a player in his midfield with 'fewer defensive responsibilities' is so alien I'm surprised your keyboard let you type it.kielyskickingboots said:It does seem like something odd has happened between him and Jones, given the lack of opportunities after a decent start to the season - even allowing for Bree's impact.
Personally I would like to see him tried in a genuine central No 10 role. He is one of our few creative players who can beat his man, go both ways with ball at feet and pick a pass. Playing at 10, able to get on the ball with fewer defensive responsibilities, I think could make a big difference to us (and him) and give us more attacking threat. It would mean slightly tweaking Carey's role, but he's good enough to adapt. In fact, I'm going to bark this at Nathan next time I see him.6 -
Well I wasn't advocating it as a starting strategy - nor would I suggest it if we're clinging onto a 1-0 lead in the dying minutes. But it seems to me to be logical to put more creative attacking players on the pitch and trying something different if you're losing and chasing the game in the dying minutes, and the strategy you started with isn't working. The evidence for which being the very fact that you're losing in the dying minutes. Like the Wrexham game. Radical thinking, I know.Garrymanilow said:
I wouldn't like to see us tear up our entire strategy to accommodate a player as a traditional 10, a position we don't use, who has never played as a 10 before. The idea of Nathan Jones having a player in his midfield with 'fewer defensive responsibilities' is so alien I'm surprised your keyboard let you type it.kielyskickingboots said:It does seem like something odd has happened between him and Jones, given the lack of opportunities after a decent start to the season - even allowing for Bree's impact.
Personally I would like to see him tried in a genuine central No 10 role. He is one of our few creative players who can beat his man, go both ways with ball at feet and pick a pass. Playing at 10, able to get on the ball with fewer defensive responsibilities, I think could make a big difference to us (and him) and give us more attacking threat. It would mean slightly tweaking Carey's role, but he's good enough to adapt. In fact, I'm going to bark this at Nathan next time I see him.0 -
Hmmm. I wonder what might have happened had we just decided to try attacking a team & let them worry about us......instead of worrying about them.LargeAddick said:
But Jones explained that. If we’d played Apter we’d have had Apter and TC as wing backs, two centre halves who were ill and Gilly. So basically one fit natural defender in a back five.J BLOCK said:
I hope you're right and the proof is in the pudding. But Jones's decision not to play him over an injured player in a game where we need a goal, speaks volumes.Scoham said:
Not disagreeing that Small’s doing better this season, but there’s a lot more to come from Apter - if we can get the best out of him their overall stats show he’s a more natural goalscorer and better at creating chances.J BLOCK said:
Small is getting rave reviews from PNE fans for his performances this season, is a regular starter and has 4 G/A. Apter can't even get on to replace an injured James Bree.Scoham said:
He comfortably outscored Small last season, and that wasn’t because Small didn’t get chances - he’s not a good finisher.J BLOCK said:
Massively disagree.Scoham said:Jones rates Bree very highly and without Edwards on the left he presumably wants to keep the balance of the team, with four natural defenders plus an attacking WB who tracks back to form a back five.
I don’t get why he didn’t come on yesterday, especially now we know Bree couldn’t even take a set piece.
He can still be a success as an attacking WB who becomes a winger in possession. He won’t do that if he doesn’t get more game time. He has more goals and assists in him than Small, which is what we need from the more attacking WB - he’s not failed at being a great defensive WB because that was never the expectation.
NJ signing then using Hernandez and yesterday TC at WB shows it’s still the plan.
Assists is more debatable, but Apter I think is a better crosser, and the stats last season show he scored and created more chances. He had more minutes but not a huge amount, and of course we had a better team than Blackpool given we got promoted.
Maybe, just maybe, we might have scored first & gone on to win the game 🤔. As it was we lost anyway.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.0 -
I don’t even think it’s an athleticism problem because he works really hard but it’s clear Jones likes a defence/set piece approach first, which Bree is going to have over Apter every time. Seems weird for him to drop 2.5M on one player he knew he wasn’t 100% invested in from day 12121 said:My take (from limited games he has been in), is jones probably has a question mark over his athleticism to step up a level. Possibly the same with knibbs0 -
It's going to be very interesting to see the starting 11 for Southampton. We know Bree is out, so will Apter move back to where he started the season.0
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He'll start JRC out there over Apter IMOstoneroses19 said:It's going to be very interesting to see the starting 11 for Southampton. We know Bree is out, so will Apter move back to where he started the season.0 -
Which is the right call. Can’t have TC and Apter as the 2 wing backs against one of the strongest squads in the division. Hopefully Burke is back and then Ramsay can play theresam3110 said:
He'll start JRC out there over Apter IMOstoneroses19 said:It's going to be very interesting to see the starting 11 for Southampton. We know Bree is out, so will Apter move back to where he started the season.
Apter is unlucky that we have no LWBs fit, so with no defensive option on the left, he can’t be the attacking option on the right.That and Bree being our best player for his first month are why Apter hasn’t played
Honestly think people are reading way too much into this. If Edwards or Bell were fit then Apter would have started at Wrexham and would be starting again against Southampton. Looking for an issue when most likely there isn’t one3 -
He's 22 years old and has moved to a new club far away from home. He was playing L1 last year and L2 the season before that and he's being asked to adapt to a new position and way of playing. He started well but showed some of the gaps in his game when we were at our strongest and now that the injuries are biting and we're looking a bit more fragile I'm not surprised that Jones feels less inclined to play him. We saw with Small that Jones would take him off pretty early in games when he wasn't fulfilling the role the way he wanted and Apter will get that same treatment. He needs time and a bit of patience, both from us and from himself. The key thing will be how he deals with being out of the team and learning the game Jones wants him to. If he gets his head down and works on his defensive positioning and awareness he could be incredible but it's not an overnight thing and if he starts getting narky about not getting game time Jones will not stand for that for one minute. TC got next to no time in Jones' first half season as we focused on survival but he got given a new contract, spent his summer bulking up and got a huge amount of trust from Jones after that. Apter's time will come.7
