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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
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Well maybe not formations but line ups
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I understand the recruitment strategy. What I don’t get is that Jones doesn’t seem to know his best team and we’re over halfway through the season. Far too much chopping and changing which saps the players’ confidence. We have to stick with him imo but he really needs to find a settled line up that is only impacted by injuries - and then he needs to have a back-up plan which doesn’t mean square pegs in round holes. He over complicates and experiments way too much.2
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AFKABartram said:I never said the manager has to go. I’m saying why everyone is so concerned. The first theee months of the season has given us a chance of staying up but it won’t be enough. A corner has to be turned to achieve that.
You say all around us are showing relegation form. Every single one of the them have secured more points in those 13 games than we have. It’s not a random picked point of the season, it’s the most recent half of what we’ve playedThere is concern, but there also needs to be perspective. We came up from arguably the toughest promotion route any League One side has ever faced. In most seasons you’d be competing with fellow promoted clubs for the same signings and league positions, but we aren’t. Birmingham and Wrexham are operating on an unprecedented financial level for former League One sides.
Our nearest realistic rivals are Oxford and Portsmouth, both of whom are now recruiting for their second season in the Championship and benefiting from the finances that come with that stability.
We’ve added a sprinkling of higher-quality but injury-prone players in the hope we could nurse them through the season and let their quality tell, alongside a number of League One gambles. Some of those have paid off, others… not so much.
As a supporter I’m concerned, and at times it feels like Jones is tinkering too much. But there have to be reasons why players like Coventry and Rankin-Costello aren’t being trusted for 90 minutes yet. The left-back situation is baffling, but Jones will be aware of it, and there must be reasons why it hasn’t been resolved so far.
Frustrating as it can be, they need our support if we’re going to have any chance of survival.
Let’s regroup and go again. COYR.
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It’s a bottom 3 level squad that we’ve built to play the way Jones wants to play. It’s already higher in the table than where most managers would have it. Put another manager in that wants to play a different way with these players and it could be disastrousThe Red Robin said:
Why not?NabySarr said:
Exactly this. Another manager wouldn’t do any better with this squad of playersfollett said:
We also have one of the worst squads in the league which is natural as we have the second lowest wage budget. It’s not like a new manager just comes in and starts winning, just look at West Brom’s new manager.cafcnick1992 said:Didn't we all agree that the mission this year was to stay up?
We're 4 points clear of the relegation zone in 18th with a game in hand over the clubs immediately below us.
I genuinely have no idea what people's expectations are anymore.
The football is bleak atm but I still think NJ is the best man for the job and can turn it around.
He does need to take a look at himself for the recruitment. Signing injury prone defenders and not having depth in certain positions (cough cough LWB) is really fucking us over. The most creative player on the pitch, who can’t defend being stifled at LWB is just painful to watch. He is stubborn that’s for sure but he did turn it around last season, let’s hope he can do it againYou can possibly blame recruitment but as a newly promoted team we had to shop the best of league 1 as our main market. Established championship players just won’t sign for the relegation favourites who have just come up4 -
The Red Robin said:I hope I’m made to look silly by May.I think the bigger picture has to be looked at as well though, I dont think a new man is going to save us, because they'll still have the same problems to deal with as Jones, injuries... Yes we could change the formation, but we'd still shoe horning players into roles, and feel we're now at the stage, where the team is having to be rotated so much, so that players can be rested, to avoid further injuries.At least with Jones, even if we go down, we know we've got a Manager who can get us back out of League One, and possibly replicate 98/99 and 99/00 where despite going down, we bounce back stronger. There is the distinct possibilty we wouldnt just get relegated under the new man, but we'll also go backwards three years with that one appointment because of how bad the choice is. It doesnt mean that I think we should stick with Jones indefinitely either. I just feel that the start of the season, gave us expectations that were unrealistic and this is how the season was always going to pan out... I mean even with the start we had, we're still ignoring how incredibly tight this Division is e.g. we lost last night, but we're still "only" 12-pts from the bloomin' Play-Offs1
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More like hands in pockets.TootingRedArmy said:Yes, we’re on a poor run. But I don’t believe there’s a better manager than Nathan Jones to take us through to the end of the season. The man is gloriously bonkers. OTT, needy, emotionally wired straight into the mains. His Achilles heel? Not exactly a champion at taking criticism. But give me that over the other League One Managers we had, also-rans, chancers and blokes who look like they’ve accidentally wandered into the dugout ....Michael Appleton (nightmare) Hands up, would you really want any of them back?
Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Slightly unhinged, Passion pouring out of every pore, veins popping, eyes blazing, fist pumping, nail biting and you know what? I love it.
Confession time: I missed only my second home game last night because I was at a STRIP show in Soho. Ironically, I missed what sounds like a very different kind of comedy at The Valley (not). Football is a mad, crazy game. Most Addicks are probably already bracing themselves for the worst at The Den. And yes, odds are our hoodoo against Millwall continues… But it doesn’t always work like that, does it? Stranger things have happened, we might be in for another beating but then again we could sneak a win or a draw, I’m still looking forward to going. Still very much backing the gaffer ! COYA's
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I am genuinely struggling to understand why so few can see the bigger picture on what is happening at the minute both in terms of our vs rival’s form. We are not pulling up trees (will come to that) but look at the likes of Southampton (who are allowing themselves to get dragged back into it), West Brom (no manager bounce this far and they look bang in trouble) and Blackburn. Oxford’s equalling record over the last 6 games in terms of results suggests they are no better and will have to reel in a fair amount more points than us to overtake us.
In terms of performances, we are not on our knees as the last couple of games have proven, the players are having a real go, but the timing of injuries in certain areas combined with our back up quality which is inevitably lower than we would like with the sort of budget we have vs teams that are either still living off parachute payments or who are minted is meaning we are hampered in terms of what we can affect on the pitch.
The left hand side has been the killer - Edwards and his back up Bell both being out for long spells has left us more exposed defensively which leaves our do the basics well plan hampered game in game out. Macca will always be a legend, solid enough last season, Wembley winner goalscorer and gives his all, but at Championship level his passing %age is too low, his defending (solidness, positional awareness, heading, pace etc attributes) is probably at 65-70% rather than 90% at League One level and there are no alternatives AT THIS MINUTE (think at least the LWB/LB issue will get sorted).If that is fixed the only other issue we really need to sort out imho is the creative midfield spark to open the chances up. Bree did this for a spell, Apter looked capable of doing it but is just not in favour right now and thereafter I can only think of JRC who may have it within him to perform that role. Carey is a skillful ball runner who will get goals, but his welcome eye for goal and therefore sometimes selfishness will open up less rather than more chances for forwards while the striking department have all too often battled away but rarely set up a glut of opportunities for one another.
I genuinely believe getting the CM partner alongside Cov right is key to unlocking better performances and this has been a major issue all season. Anderson no matter how brilliantly hard he works is not the answer, Doc, similarly hard working and willing to drive on when the gaps arise is equally not that creator type, JRC has shown glimpses he can be but has seemingly been cast to the bench again (perhaps he trains below par vs others).Get the left side better equipped and some creative midfield spark and I think we will have enough to compete for the 3-4 wins + a draw or two we need to guarantee survival. Just sort the left hand side and don’t address the midfield/creator shortcomings, then I am concerned as I can see us doing a lot more huffing, puffing but blowing ourselves out to Champ (yet again).I am nowhere near doom and gloom and the situation is not ideal, but believe tweaks could help us a lot while there are teams around us in free fall which will help us if their form is not arrested. Up the Addicks!!21 -
I do think he makes some odd choices. One thing that is clear though, which people should have learned last season, is that Jones isn't telling these players to misplace 5 yard passes, panic on the ball and hoof it aimlessly. He went mad in press conferences last years talking about how the players weren't doing what they'd talked about all week and a lot of posters refused to have it. Then it clicked for the team and you could see the plan starting to form. Burke last night in his interview said about how he and the rest of the players need to start games like they finished this one and that's on them to do. Jones always wants his teams front-footed, aggressive, good in the press and organised at the back. They're not complicated instructions but the players aren't working in sync and helping each other out. I think a big problem at the moment is that the injuries came at the worst possible time with our fixtures and in the worst possible combination. The injuries targeted exactly the spots where we had least depth and we played teams where we could least cover for it. You can see the confidence hit the run has given us by how deep we defend at times allowing space on the edge of the box and how panic can sweep through a backline that used to not allow shots at the keeper because they were so tight and good at blocking.
Jones' job now is trying to lift that mood and that fear off the team, which is a difficult one. I think we need some new players in, we've always wanted a LWB, LCB and CM and I think that if we manage to get those in and the defence feels a bit more settled without people playing out of position we'll improve. A bit more pace about the midfield would also be nice but I really don't think we're likely to get in three top quality players. You never know though, Clarke looks like a great signing so far, three more of his standard and we'll be fine.6 -
Not sure about your last paragraph at all!NabySarr said:Ffs surely we don’t have people starting to call for his head again! Did people not learn from being made to look silly last season? I’m sure if the inevitable happens on Saturday there will be even more calls. We need to be getting behind the team not start turning on the bloke who’s got us here
Seen a lot of people saying Jones is stubborn and only has one system. We played at least 3 last night! Do these people even watch the games?Truth is the squad we have suits the 3-5-2 best, so that is going to nearly always be plan A. If it doesn’t work like last night’s first half, Jones will often change things around
We don’t have any wing backs and whatever system we play or adjustments he makes, the key point is we always have wing backs. so why does the squad suit 352?On the face of it our squad is best suited to 433. Ramsay and Bree/ now Clarke are very good full backs (not wing backs). Bell the same if fit. Try TC and Apter wings. Not saying it will work but it feels so weird to me we have been so furiously determined to pursue wing backs at all times; wing back is such an incredibly hard position to play and for LITERALLY the entire season we have been shoehorning all sorts of people uncomfortably into that role.4 -
The owners/ SLT would be naive not to start at least looking at who is available0
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But with a flat back 4 we don't have the CB's. Ramsay is a converted RB so should never play in a back 4 at CB, Gillesphey can't cover enough ground in a 3 let alone a 2, Lloyd Jones has played his best football in a 3 and Burke is too fragile to play in a 2 as is Bell. That's before you get to the lack of pace for all of them (maybe bar Bell). Playing a 4 (with a new LB signing needed anyway) might solve the issue of the flanks but instead of dulling TC's best attributes, you dull Lloyd Jones's and need to find a fast left footed CB in the next two weekspaulsturgess said:
Not sure about your last paragraph at all!NabySarr said:Ffs surely we don’t have people starting to call for his head again! Did people not learn from being made to look silly last season? I’m sure if the inevitable happens on Saturday there will be even more calls. We need to be getting behind the team not start turning on the bloke who’s got us here
Seen a lot of people saying Jones is stubborn and only has one system. We played at least 3 last night! Do these people even watch the games?Truth is the squad we have suits the 3-5-2 best, so that is going to nearly always be plan A. If it doesn’t work like last night’s first half, Jones will often change things around
We don’t have any wing backs and whatever system we play or adjustments he makes, the key point is we always have wing backs. so why does the squad suit 352?On the face of it our squad is best suited to 433. Ramsay and Bree/ now Clarke are very good full backs (not wing backs). Bell the same if fit. Try TC and Apter wings. Not saying it will work but it feels so weird to me we have been so furiously determined to pursue wing backs at all times; wing back is such an incredibly hard position to play and for LITERALLY the entire season we have been shoehorning all sorts of people uncomfortably into that role.4 -
Don’t agree with that. Lloyd Jones and Burke are good centre backs. Gillesphey would be no worse in a 2 than a 3, IMO, and I don’t get this “too fragile” point that makes no sense. They’re too fragile to play full stop being in a back 3 as opposed to a back 2 doesn’t somehow make them more protected from injury; if anything they’re more likely to get injured in a 3 as they have to be dragged about / out wide more and are expected to drive forward more
fenaddick said:
But with a flat back 4 we don't have the CB's. Ramsay is a converted RB so should never play in a back 4 at CB, Gillesphey can't cover enough ground in a 3 let alone a 2, Lloyd Jones has played his best football in a 3 and Burke is too fragile to play in a 2 as is Bell. That's before you get to the lack of pace for all of them (maybe bar Bell). Playing a 4 (with a new LB signing needed anyway) might solve the issue of the flanks but instead of dulling TC's best attributes, you dull Lloyd Jones's and need to find a fast left footed CB in the next two weekspaulsturgess said:
Not sure about your last paragraph at all!NabySarr said:Ffs surely we don’t have people starting to call for his head again! Did people not learn from being made to look silly last season? I’m sure if the inevitable happens on Saturday there will be even more calls. We need to be getting behind the team not start turning on the bloke who’s got us here
Seen a lot of people saying Jones is stubborn and only has one system. We played at least 3 last night! Do these people even watch the games?Truth is the squad we have suits the 3-5-2 best, so that is going to nearly always be plan A. If it doesn’t work like last night’s first half, Jones will often change things around
We don’t have any wing backs and whatever system we play or adjustments he makes, the key point is we always have wing backs. so why does the squad suit 352?On the face of it our squad is best suited to 433. Ramsay and Bree/ now Clarke are very good full backs (not wing backs). Bell the same if fit. Try TC and Apter wings. Not saying it will work but it feels so weird to me we have been so furiously determined to pursue wing backs at all times; wing back is such an incredibly hard position to play and for LITERALLY the entire season we have been shoehorning all sorts of people uncomfortably into that role.
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The thing I don't get about people wanting a shape change is we have as many LWBs as we do left backs. Edwards and Bell can play there and that's it. You could stick Ramsay or Clarke there but they would be out of position. Apparently Burke used to play there a lot but at his level of fitness you may as well just shoot him before the match starts and save the time. Apter, Fullah and TC can play LWB at a pinch though it's not ideal as long as there's a bit of balance on the other side, but they would be genuinely disastrous as left backs. If we sign a proper left sided defender then the argument for Jones shifting things round would make more sense but right now the dogged playing of 3 at the back is because it would be an absolute nightmare for us to see someone like Ramsay lining up at left back in a 4 every week while our midfield gets overrun5
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He bangs on about the position in the league we was in when he took over blah blah blah and look!
Its becoming the same situation again exept in the league above and he is the manager.
Both Relegations would have and will be a disaster!
In 3 games time if nothing changes will he hold his hands up and admit he has got it totally wrong. Or is he waiting for his second devine intervention and hoping Godden again to some how save us!
In my opinion Out!
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We get back into the game, are playing well, and then he completely destroys our balance with that Kelman for Coventry substitution. He's in Mad Mode and I don't like it. I'm not for a second saying get rid of him, but I am saying that if we lose the next 2 or 3 we might need to think about it2
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Biggest problem we have is that we have no left back. So why is Jones the one that is taking the criticism? He wanted a left wing back in the summer, but we couldn’t find one. He wanted a left wing back this month, but so far we haven’t found one
Just like last season people are jumping on a manager that currently doesn’t have the tools to get the results. He’s proven time and time again that when he has the tools he does get results
Last season we had about 10 injuries and results were bad, as soon as we had players back results improved. This season we’ve barely had a LWB for months, results are bad, but surely based on previous when Jones has what he needs he gets results so stick with him2 -
This irritates me - we have no idea what his relationship is with players, just a few rumoursEastTerrace said:He’s guessing at formations at the moment.
Just as worryingly he seems to be falling out with a few players. The players do seem to work
for him though even if they aren’t very good.3 -
Same as last season, when he apparently had “lost the dressing room” according to some on here. It’s a load of bollocksDanny Addick said:
This irritates me - we have no idea what his relationship is with players, just a few rumoursEastTerrace said:He’s guessing at formations at the moment.
Just as worryingly he seems to be falling out with a few players. The players do seem to work
for him though even if they aren’t very good.5 -
Best post in the thread probably!Pavoren007 said:I am genuinely struggling to understand why so few can see the bigger picture on what is happening at the minute both in terms of our vs rival’s form. We are not pulling up trees (will come to that) but look at the likes of Southampton (who are allowing themselves to get dragged back into it), West Brom (no manager bounce this far and they look bang in trouble) and Blackburn. Oxford’s equalling record over the last 6 games in terms of results suggests they are no better and will have to reel in a fair amount more points than us to overtake us.
In terms of performances, we are not on our knees as the last couple of games have proven, the players are having a real go, but the timing of injuries in certain areas combined with our back up quality which is inevitably lower than we would like with the sort of budget we have vs teams that are either still living off parachute payments or who are minted is meaning we are hampered in terms of what we can affect on the pitch.
The left hand side has been the killer - Edwards and his back up Bell both being out for long spells has left us more exposed defensively which leaves our do the basics well plan hampered game in game out. Macca will always be a legend, solid enough last season, Wembley winner goalscorer and gives his all, but at Championship level his passing %age is too low, his defending (solidness, positional awareness, heading, pace etc attributes) is probably at 65-70% rather than 90% at League One level and there are no alternatives AT THIS MINUTE (think at least the LWB/LB issue will get sorted).If that is fixed the only other issue we really need to sort out imho is the creative midfield spark to open the chances up. Bree did this for a spell, Apter looked capable of doing it but is just not in favour right now and thereafter I can only think of JRC who may have it within him to perform that role. Carey is a skillful ball runner who will get goals, but his welcome eye for goal and therefore sometimes selfishness will open up less rather than more chances for forwards while the striking department have all too often battled away but rarely set up a glut of opportunities for one another.
I genuinely believe getting the CM partner alongside Cov right is key to unlocking better performances and this has been a major issue all season. Anderson no matter how brilliantly hard he works is not the answer, Doc, similarly hard working and willing to drive on when the gaps arise is equally not that creator type, JRC has shown glimpses he can be but has seemingly been cast to the bench again (perhaps he trains below par vs others).Get the left side better equipped and some creative midfield spark and I think we will have enough to compete for the 3-4 wins + a draw or two we need to guarantee survival. Just sort the left hand side and don’t address the midfield/creator shortcomings, then I am concerned as I can see us doing a lot more huffing, puffing but blowing ourselves out to Champ (yet again).I am nowhere near doom and gloom and the situation is not ideal, but believe tweaks could help us a lot while there are teams around us in free fall which will help us if their form is not arrested. Up the Addicks!!4 -
Gave him and the recruitment team £10m to spend and he's still bringing Berry on towards the death as a hit and hope. Half the new signings don't even make the squad. Dreadful.9
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I actually disagree on this current run. It's Jones' reluctance to change system that's causing so many of our problems. I said at the time that other managers would not have got 0 points from both Norwich and Portsmouth over Christmas, and we haven't improved at all since then.NabySarr said:
Exactly this. Another manager wouldn’t do any better with this squad of playersfollett said:
We also have one of the worst squads in the league which is natural as we have the second lowest wage budget. It’s not like a new manager just comes in and starts winning, just look at West Brom’s new manager.cafcnick1992 said:Didn't we all agree that the mission this year was to stay up?
We're 4 points clear of the relegation zone in 18th with a game in hand over the clubs immediately below us.
I genuinely have no idea what people's expectations are anymore.
The football is bleak atm but I still think NJ is the best man for the job and can turn it around.
He does need to take a look at himself for the recruitment. Signing injury prone defenders and not having depth in certain positions (cough cough LWB) is really fucking us over. The most creative player on the pitch, who can’t defend being stifled at LWB is just painful to watch. He is stubborn that’s for sure but he did turn it around last season, let’s hope he can do it againYou can possibly blame recruitment but as a newly promoted team we had to shop the best of league 1 as our main market. Established championship players just won’t sign for the relegation favourites who have just come up
I don't want him sacked but he is definitely due some criticism4 -
There just needs to be some accountability. At a point he surely needs to hold his hands up and say I could have done better.0
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We are set up to play utter dross, easy to play freely when you're 2-0 down and have to go for it.Garrymanilow said:I do think he makes some odd choices. One thing that is clear though, which people should have learned last season, is that Jones isn't telling these players to misplace 5 yard passes, panic on the ball and hoof it aimlessly. He went mad in press conferences last years talking about how the players weren't doing what they'd talked about all week and a lot of posters refused to have it. Then it clicked for the team and you could see the plan starting to form. Burke last night in his interview said about how he and the rest of the players need to start games like they finished this one and that's on them to do. Jones always wants his teams front-footed, aggressive, good in the press and organised at the back. They're not complicated instructions but the players aren't working in sync and helping each other out. I think a big problem at the moment is that the injuries came at the worst possible time with our fixtures and in the worst possible combination. The injuries targeted exactly the spots where we had least depth and we played teams where we could least cover for it. You can see the confidence hit the run has given us by how deep we defend at times allowing space on the edge of the box and how panic can sweep through a backline that used to not allow shots at the keeper because they were so tight and good at blocking.
Jones' job now is trying to lift that mood and that fear off the team, which is a difficult one. I think we need some new players in, we've always wanted a LWB, LCB and CM and I think that if we manage to get those in and the defence feels a bit more settled without people playing out of position we'll improve. A bit more pace about the midfield would also be nice but I really don't think we're likely to get in three top quality players. You never know though, Clarke looks like a great signing so far, three more of his standard and we'll be fine.1 -
He’s changed system quite a lot though, including last night. The truth is we have built a squad for 3-5-2, so even without a proper LWB it is still the best shape for us. Whenever we’ve changed shape in games or from the start we’ve been just as bad, if not worseCroydon said:
I actually disagree on this current run. It's Jones' reluctance to change system that's causing so many of our problems. I said at the time that other managers would not have got 0 points from both Norwich and Portsmouth over Christmas, and we haven't improved at all since then.NabySarr said:
Exactly this. Another manager wouldn’t do any better with this squad of playersfollett said:
We also have one of the worst squads in the league which is natural as we have the second lowest wage budget. It’s not like a new manager just comes in and starts winning, just look at West Brom’s new manager.cafcnick1992 said:Didn't we all agree that the mission this year was to stay up?
We're 4 points clear of the relegation zone in 18th with a game in hand over the clubs immediately below us.
I genuinely have no idea what people's expectations are anymore.
The football is bleak atm but I still think NJ is the best man for the job and can turn it around.
He does need to take a look at himself for the recruitment. Signing injury prone defenders and not having depth in certain positions (cough cough LWB) is really fucking us over. The most creative player on the pitch, who can’t defend being stifled at LWB is just painful to watch. He is stubborn that’s for sure but he did turn it around last season, let’s hope he can do it againYou can possibly blame recruitment but as a newly promoted team we had to shop the best of league 1 as our main market. Established championship players just won’t sign for the relegation favourites who have just come up
I don't want him sacked but he is definitely due some criticism
What other formation could you play with these available personnel? There are multiple problems with the team whatever the formation you pickup. At least the 3-5-2 only has one problem that will hopefully soon be sorted out
If we play a back 4, then we still have no left back, and we also don’t have the centre backs for that shape, or the striker to lead the line. That’s a lot more problems than what we have now in the 3-5-2
So you swap to a back 4, sacrifice any defensive solidity (what has got us here!) as you’ve got half the back 4 in bad roles. And in return you get Apter and TC in their best roles, I’m sorry but that’s not worth ruining the defence for because neither are going to suddenly start scoring and assisting loads of goals at this level1 -
A relegation would be horrible but it's ridiculous to act like it's something that can't happen or is somehow unrealistic. We're not a rich club and we went up via the play-offs. We spent a lot of money for us but still less overall than some teams spent on a single player and we're seeing that borne out on the pitch. The two teams we went up with have spent an incredible amount on their teams this season and last - Birmingham £21m this season and £31m last season, Wrexham £33m this season, £4.3m last season. That means we're competing to stay up against more established Championship teams. It's no surprise that Pompey and Oxford are down there having only been up there for one full season, but Blackburn have been in the league since 18/19, West Brom and Norwich were in the Premier League in 20/21 and 21/22 respectively, Saints were in the Premier League last season and Sheff Utd got 90 Championship points last season. Every time we sign a player we add them to last season's L1 team. The teams around us add a signing to a team that has already established itself in this division.Willo said:He bangs on about the position in the league we was in when he took over blah blah blah and look!
Its becoming the same situation again exept in the league above and he is the manager.
Both Relegations would have and will be a disaster!
In 3 games time if nothing changes will he hold his hands up and admit he has got it totally wrong. Or is he waiting for his second devine intervention and hoping Godden again to some how save us!
In my oppinion Out!
It makes perfect sense that he 'bangs on' about the position when he took over because he took over a team 2 years ago that had to choose between AMB and Isted in goal, had Terell Thomas as one of its more consistent centre backs, Slobodan Tedic up front and Scott Fraser in midfield. Not counting youth products there are 5 players in that squad when Jones arrived who are still there now, one is third choice keeper and Ramsay feels like he was a Jones pick. It has been a complete and total overhaul where less than £1m was spent on transfers to get the team out of L1 and now we're seeing the effects of a lack of depth and top end quality in one of the hardest leagues in the world. It is nothing like the same situation this season as it was when he started, if anything we've done well to still be out of the relegation spots up to this point. It's not fun to watch and we're on a bad run but let's try and keep some perspective here. If we go down it won't have been completely unavoidable but it will be something that was likely to happen based on our spend compared to other teams and the speed with which we've gone from genuine L1 relegation candidates to Championship club.14 -
The too fragile point is about fitness and the need for more running for injury prone players. You need more pace in a 4, Gillesphey looks slow as it is. If your back 5 system as good WB's your CB's shouldn't get dragged out of position, the reason everyone is out of position is because our WB's aren't rightpaulsturgess said:Don’t agree with that. Lloyd Jones and Burke are good centre backs. Gillesphey would be no worse in a 2 than a 3, IMO, and I don’t get this “too fragile” point that makes no sense. They’re too fragile to play full stop being in a back 3 as opposed to a back 2 doesn’t somehow make them more protected from injury; if anything they’re more likely to get injured in a 3 as they have to be dragged about / out wide more and are expected to drive forward more1 -
Great post. The modern football fan is far too entitled and impatient unfortunately, so if we lose a few games the manager has to go and it’s all his faultGarrymanilow said:
A relegation would be horrible but it's ridiculous to act like it's something that can't happen or is somehow unrealistic. We're not a rich club and we went up via the play-offs. We spent a lot of money for us but still less overall than some teams spent on a single player and we're seeing that borne out on the pitch. The two teams we went up with have spent an incredible amount on their teams this season and last - Birmingham £21m this season and £31m last season, Wrexham £33m this season, £4.3m last season. That means we're competing to stay up against more established Championship teams. It's no surprise that Pompey and Oxford are down there having only been up there for one full season, but Blackburn have been in the league since 18/19, West Brom and Norwich were in the Premier League in 20/21 and 21/22 respectively, Saints were in the Premier League last season and Sheff Utd got 90 Championship points last season. Every time we sign a player we add them to last season's L1 team. The teams around us add a signing to a team that has already established itself in this division.Willo said:He bangs on about the position in the league we was in when he took over blah blah blah and look!
Its becoming the same situation again exept in the league above and he is the manager.
Both Relegations would have and will be a disaster!
In 3 games time if nothing changes will he hold his hands up and admit he has got it totally wrong. Or is he waiting for his second devine intervention and hoping Godden again to some how save us!
In my oppinion Out!
It makes perfect sense that he 'bangs on' about the position when he took over because he took over a team 2 years ago that had to choose between AMB and Isted in goal, had Terell Thomas as one of its more consistent centre backs, Slobodan Tedic up front and Scott Fraser in midfield. Not counting youth products there are 5 players in that squad when Jones arrived who are still there now, one is third choice keeper and Ramsay feels like he was a Jones pick. It has been a complete and total overhaul where less than £1m was spent on transfers to get the team out of L1 and now we're seeing the effects of a lack of depth and top end quality in one of the hardest leagues in the world. It is nothing like the same situation this season as it was when he started, if anything we've done well to still be out of the relegation spots up to this point. It's not fun to watch and we're on a bad run but let's try and keep some perspective here. If we go down it won't have been completely unavoidable but it will be something that was likely to happen based on our spend compared to other teams and the speed with which we've gone from genuine L1 relegation candidates to Championship club.5 -
Questions need to be asked and he might not be the person to take us forward. I wouldn't sack him as I can't see who else who could come in and keep us up.0
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We haven't had a defensive solidity for months and this wretched run of form has had 3-5-2 at the heart of it. I don't understand the narrative that anything else would be worse.NabySarr said:
He’s changed system quite a lot though, including last night. The truth is we have built a squad for 3-5-2, so even without a proper LWB it is still the best shape for us. Whenever we’ve changed shape in games or from the start we’ve been just as bad, if not worseCroydon said:
I actually disagree on this current run. It's Jones' reluctance to change system that's causing so many of our problems. I said at the time that other managers would not have got 0 points from both Norwich and Portsmouth over Christmas, and we haven't improved at all since then.NabySarr said:
Exactly this. Another manager wouldn’t do any better with this squad of playersfollett said:
We also have one of the worst squads in the league which is natural as we have the second lowest wage budget. It’s not like a new manager just comes in and starts winning, just look at West Brom’s new manager.cafcnick1992 said:Didn't we all agree that the mission this year was to stay up?
We're 4 points clear of the relegation zone in 18th with a game in hand over the clubs immediately below us.
I genuinely have no idea what people's expectations are anymore.
The football is bleak atm but I still think NJ is the best man for the job and can turn it around.
He does need to take a look at himself for the recruitment. Signing injury prone defenders and not having depth in certain positions (cough cough LWB) is really fucking us over. The most creative player on the pitch, who can’t defend being stifled at LWB is just painful to watch. He is stubborn that’s for sure but he did turn it around last season, let’s hope he can do it againYou can possibly blame recruitment but as a newly promoted team we had to shop the best of league 1 as our main market. Established championship players just won’t sign for the relegation favourites who have just come up
I don't want him sacked but he is definitely due some criticism
What other formation could you play with these available personnel? There are multiple problems with the team whatever the formation you pickup. At least the 3-5-2 only has one problem that will hopefully soon be sorted out
If we play a back 4, then we still have no left back, and we also don’t have the centre backs for that shape, or the striker to lead the line. That’s a lot more problems than what we have now in the 3-5-2
So you swap to a back 4, sacrifice any defensive solidity (what has got us here!) as you’ve got half the back 4 in bad roles. And in return you get Apter and TC in their best roles, I’m sorry but that’s not worth ruining the defence for because neither are going to suddenly start scoring and assisting loads of goals at this level
Changing shape at HT after another woeful first half isn't good enough imo.
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We have no left back or no left wing back but we're playing people like Ramsay and Bree who are not wing backs and not left sided there, or TC who is an attacking winger. At least Ramsay and Bree are full backs so youre only asking them to play in 1 wrong position (side) not 2 (side and wing back). Bell would also be an excellent left back when fit.
Look i'm not saying it's the solution but all the scenarios involve square pegs, and the fact we have essentially NEVER tried anything else this season despite it failing for months on end is a very legitimate challenge to the coaching staff. Particularly when the goals are non existent and two (three) of our on the face of it more attacking threats (TC and Apter (also Fullah?)) might be effective if played in position so it could help us both in a defensive and attacking sense. Maybe not but at the moment we're simply surmising about why it might not work.
We need to try something as we are careering towards relegation. What we tried last night was two lumps up top and hoof hoof hoof. Which is just an extension of what we've already been doing.
I hope the two Jones's can pull some shock out of the bag and lead us to a majestic out of the blue result on Saturday to stem the tide.1
