I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
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While we are definitely not the ONLY team in bad form we don't want to be in the position of surviving by relying on someone else being worse than us (and I doubt that is the plan.)
Hopefully we get a scrappy underdog win that gives everyone a little boost and even a temporary kick to get us a bit clearer of the scrap at the bottom.
I dont actually think right now that we will go back down but i do think its possible.0 -
Last night was our first league defeat in 4 games. Ok the performances are not good at all, but 5 points from 4 games in 2026 isn't the worst return.paulsturgess said:
I agree with you on part 1 and 2 here but no pt3. I don’t see much crazy frantic opining on here. We are in serious panic because we’re in a battle with those teams you mention to avoid that relegation spot and we’re in as bad or worse form than any of them and with no sign of it changing. It would be utter madness not to be concerned and critical of our performances at the moment. If anything that is healthy and Jones himself should realise that. I’m not calling for him to go because he proved me wrong last year and I don’t think there’s anyone who’s likely to give us a better chance of surviving anyway, but he , and the more sensitive on here IMO, also need to recognise that criticism is healthy and he shouldn’t be entirely immune from it solely because of what he achieved last seasonChris_from_Sidcup said:I'm not going to call for him to go as i think he absolutely deserves the chance to turn things around. A lot of people (including me) wanted him gone around November/early December 2024 and look what happened.
It's not as if we're getting battered by teams because Southampton aside we are generally always in games and it was only 3 weeks ago we got a draw with the league leaders. Clarke and Dykes are decent additions and if we can sort the obvious LWB issue then i'm confident we'll be ok.
The likes of Blackburn (1 win in 12), West brom (2 wins in 10) and Portsmouth (4 wins in 16) are hardly tearing up trees. A lot of people on here are acting like we're sat in Oxford's position.
I completely get why people are concerned but i don't understand the people who want him sacked. What were they expecting from this season? At the start of the season we were listed by the majority of bookies as 3rd favourites to go down after Sheff Weds and Oxford and a lot of people on this forum said they'd be happy with finishing 4th bottom. We're now in late January sat in 18th place, 4 points clear of the bottom 3. So based on pre-season expectations is Jones not doing better than most people expected? How would you sack a manager for being above where most people expected us to be?3 -
More chance of Jones walking out than being sacked by the current ownership. I would never put it past him.His football is all well and good whilst you winning but when we are not it’s a style that does not get you on the edge of your seats
His transfer dealings this season have been questionable at best. Spends a couple of million on Apter but does not fit into a Jones side. Why buy him? And that goes for a couple more as well. Not to replace Small in the summer has now come back to bite him hard.To play in a Jones side it’s work unti you drop, quality is secondary. All well and good but the Championship has improved tenfold from a few years ago l.
Do I want him gone? Not unless there is anyone better out there that could get a tune out of the squad we have.
We will go down under his stewardship? It’s more than possible but if we can stay up then there needs to be change in direction next season or we will get relegated sooner rather than later if we stick with the same budget and the type of players that come in4 -
The reality is that (so far), just one of these players are a first team regular. Mix that with a rigid formation and chopping and changing the 1st 11 now. Not good.
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Kaminski, Kelman, Bell, Burke and Carey (last two not on your list) are first team regulars when they're not injured._uptheaddicks said:The reality is that (so far), just one of these players are a first team regular. Mix that with a rigid formation and chopping and changing the 1st 11 now. Not good.
Bree played every game he could while here.
Dykes and Clarke have been involved in both games since signing.7 -
cafcnick1992 said:
I do think the onus of finding better candidates should be on those tired of Nathan Jones.The Red Robin said:
That you're aware of.cafcnick1992 said:If we sacked Nathan Jones, the best available manager we could realistically get would be Nathan Jones.
...😉
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We share a lot of the same views on NJ from your post here, and this kind of sums it up neatly. There's not much I wouldn't put past him.shirty5 said:More chance of Jones walking out than being sacked by the current ownership. I would never put it past him.
Imho, NJ is someone who gives absolutely every element of his being into being the best football manager he can be - and also, truly believes that he is very good at being one. As I mentioned last to some of my friends that I sit next to, there is some level of ego that alongside that. He took Luton up the leagues, he had a game where he beat Pep and he took us from flirting with relegation to L2 to a L1 playoff winning side. These are not easy things to do, but I do think that he believes that this is weighted considerably towards HIS work and the players HE has recruited. When he spoke about the recruitment of ex-Luton players, it is very notable that he speaks of those players being his - the results and achievements of those clubs are down to him, and the players, clubs and even owners are tools that at his disposal for his success.
He's naturally a binary figure within football. You love him or hate him - if he's yours, he's the best, the 1/1, if he's not, he's the kind of guy that you'll usually find difficult to like. He's all or nothing, his way or the highway. One can only imagine that, as a player, that's a real challenge. If he backs you and you do everything he says, he'll pick you, work with you and get the best from you. But it ABSOLUTELY needs to be exactly as he wants it, or you will be on the bench, out in the cold or out of the door. The loyalty is not optional, it is mandatory. Examples are everywhere - Luton fans would likely have many thoughts, but we've seen it here too. Alfie May was clearly one that didn't subscribe to what was being asked - hence the reactions to the subbings and the eventual sale. Thierry Small also was one that, at times, didn't seem like he would always want to do or play in the way NJ wanted. Players will randomly come in and out of the side or would be the focal points of intense sideline rage (Rob Apter, Charlie Kelman). NJ gives the impression that he will get emotional, tell players what he wants and then discard them acrimoniously without any hint of compassion. Players feel like they are the tool for NJ to succeed and it's a vehicle for his success. This bleeds out over to when he gets frustrated with us as fans - it's not from defense of players as it appears, this really suggests to me that he is annoyed we dare question him or his ways. He's the main character and we're here to see him and his team.
Where I find myself right now is having some level of empathy for the players. We're on a poor run of form, and what he is doing isn't working as well as it once did. As we've seen already, when you get the full commitment and it's working, the buy-in makes everything feel better and you get that togetherness. When you don't, you get the polar opposite. There is no in-between. I try to put myself in the place of say, TC, who strikes me as a young man that would do ANYTHING to play and be there for his team, even at the sacrifice of his own game. He will listen, learn, run and play objectively the wrong position if his manager tells him too. Wouldn't say boo to a goose. Meanwhile, slightly older players come in and have been part of talking about what they should/ should not be doing or react to being dropped etc. - you get what has seemingly happened to Rob Apter. No way that lad hasn't done or said something against NJ to end up where is. I meant to say this in the Sheff Utd. post-game thread, but what exactly does that lad have to do to be brought on vs. 9 men when width is seemingly the way you put that game out of sight. There are probably more examples, but that's the really obvious one to me right now.
NJ knows infinitely more than me about football, but as a well-informed fan, it still confuses me how he forces systems on squads that don't fit the players he has. I think that his loyalty to HIS players overwrites the selection and logic that me/you/<another manager> would apply in this situation. The brand of NJ grindball is acceptable to us as fans when we are winning games and getting results. 0-0 at half-time? Yeah, it's just what it is - we're good to nick one later. 0-2 at home? Well, can't see us pulling this back with the way we play. As he mentioned after the Derby game last night, everything is built around clean sheets. If he can't get a clean sheet, then he cannot nick a result. Fwiw, I feel one of his limitations as a manager is having any of his teams truly take risks and be actually positive, because his footballing philosophy revolves around clean sheets. Tactics, selections, it all starts there.
Would I sack him? No, we're not in that place.
Can we stay up? Yes, but we're on somewhat of the knife edge.
Do I feel for some of these players? Absolutely, I think several are probably quite unhappy.
Do I think someone else could do better? Perhaps - I don't think he adapts enough to circumstance, and will only rely on who he trusts.
To conclude my many words™, I don't know how much longer NJ will stay. If we can stay up, he remains. If we continue to lose games, it gets harder. I don't think he knows what his best midfield is any more. He throws more mud at the wall until something sticks. From not seeing Karoy for ages, he suddenly starts two games - I love the endeavour and effort of Karoy, but his quality with the ball, broadly, is lacking for this level. But NJ loves him, largely because, I feel, Karoy will run through walls for NJ. Majority of the Academy lads are this way - they do whatever any Charlton manager says, because that's what they have always done. The defense has been a mess due to injuries, but the almost devout way we always set up will never see us going after games from minute one. Clean sheets are the success criteria, but there's no backup plan.
I think NJ has done so well at the club, but without the EXACT profile of player and complete and utter commitment from every player, there feels like there is a cap to his style of play when it comes to this level. That's not to say we have another better option out there now, but I feel this is becoming more and more apparent to me when these dip phases happen.
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no way, other way round, need more pace in the 352. bizarre interpretation!fenaddick said:
The too fragile point is about fitness and the need for more running for injury prone players. You need more pace in a 4, Gillesphey looks slow as it is. If your back 5 system as good WB's your CB's shouldn't get dragged out of position, the reason everyone is out of position is because our WB's aren't rightpaulsturgess said:Don’t agree with that. Lloyd Jones and Burke are good centre backs. Gillesphey would be no worse in a 2 than a 3, IMO, and I don’t get this “too fragile” point that makes no sense. They’re too fragile to play full stop being in a back 3 as opposed to a back 2 doesn’t somehow make them more protected from injury; if anything they’re more likely to get injured in a 3 as they have to be dragged about / out wide more and are expected to drive forward more1 -
Completely depends on your wingback. If you have a defensive WB on your side you need less pace in a 3, if you have a more attacking one like TC you need more pace. With Edwards/Bree/Clarke not bombing forward too much our CB's are covering about 60% of the width of the pitch, in a back 4 that might decrease to 50% but shared between less defenders. More space to cover = more pace requiredpaulsturgess said:
no way, other way round, need more pace in the 352. bizarre interpretation!fenaddick said:
The too fragile point is about fitness and the need for more running for injury prone players. You need more pace in a 4, Gillesphey looks slow as it is. If your back 5 system as good WB's your CB's shouldn't get dragged out of position, the reason everyone is out of position is because our WB's aren't rightpaulsturgess said:Don’t agree with that. Lloyd Jones and Burke are good centre backs. Gillesphey would be no worse in a 2 than a 3, IMO, and I don’t get this “too fragile” point that makes no sense. They’re too fragile to play full stop being in a back 3 as opposed to a back 2 doesn’t somehow make them more protected from injury; if anything they’re more likely to get injured in a 3 as they have to be dragged about / out wide more and are expected to drive forward more
Anyway, we aren't going to agree and that's fine!0 -
If we binned off Jones and got Bloomfield in I’d be fuming.
The only other manager about right now (other than the bloke we have) who I think would have a decent chance at getting us at or above 21st is Gary Rowett. But that also feels like a pointless swap at this moment in time.
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That’s just…simply not true._uptheaddicks said:The reality is that (so far), just one of these players are a first team regular. Mix that with a rigid formation and chopping and changing the 1st 11 now. Not good.3 -
Luckily he's unavialableCallumcafc said:If we binned off Jones and got Bloomfield in I’d be fuming.
The only other manager about right now (other than the bloke we have) who I think would have a decent chance at getting us at or above 21st is Gary Rowett. But that also feels like a pointless swap at this moment in time.0 -
Nutters0
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redbuttle said:
I am not interested in stats. The only thing I want is points..JustFloydRoad said:Callumcafc said:
Get the point, however from 2007-09 and 2012-16 we did stabilize in the Championship. I will give you since (15/16) the second relegation from the Championship, but we have stabilized (in the Championship) since the Premier League before.
* Doesn't include 2010-12 seasons- Source: https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/teams/8451/history/charlton-athletic
More club historical finishes than stats (and was more a response to that Parody Charlton Athletic post than that post by Mr Court). Just pointed out there were two occasions Charlton stabilized as a championship club, not how many runs Jonnie Jackson did in the 11/12 season
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Fkn hell Jonesy, you should have been alert to that before a ball was kicked this season.oohaahmortimer said:dressing room unrest I heard as well as NJ wanting Doc out , not good things to be hearing but dressing room unrest always comes out when the team are fucking shit
Doc was never going to perform in this league, couldn't even stand out as a top performer in League 1.0 -
The mess that has us overachieving?iaitch said:
Jones has got us in this mess or does he only accept praise and doesn't like criticism?TootingRedArmy said:Yes, we’re on a poor run. But I don’t believe there’s a better manager than Nathan Jones to take us through to the end of the season. The man is gloriously bonkers. OTT, needy, emotionally wired straight into the mains. His Achilles heel? Not exactly a champion at taking criticism. But give me that over the other League One Managers we had, also-rans, chancers and blokes who look like they’ve accidentally wandered into the dugout ....Michael Appleton (nightmare) Hands up, would you really want any of them back?
Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Slightly unhinged, Passion pouring out of every pore, veins popping, eyes blazing, fist pumping, nail biting and you know what? I love it.
Confession time: I missed only my second home game last night because I was at a comedy show in Soho. Ironically, I missed what sounds like a very different kind of comedy at The Valley (not). Football is a mad, crazy game. Most Addicks are probably already bracing themselves for the worst at The Den. And yes, odds are our hoodoo against Millwall continues… But it doesn’t always work like that, does it? Stranger things have happened, we might be in for another beating but then again we could sneak a win or a draw, I’m still looking forward to going. Still very much backing the gaffer ! COYA's
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We are not overachieving!Stu_of_Kunming said:
The mess that has us overachieving?iaitch said:
Jones has got us in this mess or does he only accept praise and doesn't like criticism?TootingRedArmy said:Yes, we’re on a poor run. But I don’t believe there’s a better manager than Nathan Jones to take us through to the end of the season. The man is gloriously bonkers. OTT, needy, emotionally wired straight into the mains. His Achilles heel? Not exactly a champion at taking criticism. But give me that over the other League One Managers we had, also-rans, chancers and blokes who look like they’ve accidentally wandered into the dugout ....Michael Appleton (nightmare) Hands up, would you really want any of them back?
Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Slightly unhinged, Passion pouring out of every pore, veins popping, eyes blazing, fist pumping, nail biting and you know what? I love it.
Confession time: I missed only my second home game last night because I was at a comedy show in Soho. Ironically, I missed what sounds like a very different kind of comedy at The Valley (not). Football is a mad, crazy game. Most Addicks are probably already bracing themselves for the worst at The Den. And yes, odds are our hoodoo against Millwall continues… But it doesn’t always work like that, does it? Stranger things have happened, we might be in for another beating but then again we could sneak a win or a draw, I’m still looking forward to going. Still very much backing the gaffer ! COYA's
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I must be looking at the wrong league table thenpaulsturgess said:
We are not overachieving!Stu_of_Kunming said:
The mess that has us overachieving?iaitch said:
Jones has got us in this mess or does he only accept praise and doesn't like criticism?TootingRedArmy said:Yes, we’re on a poor run. But I don’t believe there’s a better manager than Nathan Jones to take us through to the end of the season. The man is gloriously bonkers. OTT, needy, emotionally wired straight into the mains. His Achilles heel? Not exactly a champion at taking criticism. But give me that over the other League One Managers we had, also-rans, chancers and blokes who look like they’ve accidentally wandered into the dugout ....Michael Appleton (nightmare) Hands up, would you really want any of them back?
Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Slightly unhinged, Passion pouring out of every pore, veins popping, eyes blazing, fist pumping, nail biting and you know what? I love it.
Confession time: I missed only my second home game last night because I was at a comedy show in Soho. Ironically, I missed what sounds like a very different kind of comedy at The Valley (not). Football is a mad, crazy game. Most Addicks are probably already bracing themselves for the worst at The Den. And yes, odds are our hoodoo against Millwall continues… But it doesn’t always work like that, does it? Stranger things have happened, we might be in for another beating but then again we could sneak a win or a draw, I’m still looking forward to going. Still very much backing the gaffer ! COYA's
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I don’t think lumping it up to two big lads is likely to see us survive .1
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2nd or 3rd favourites for relegation in pre-season. Sheff Weds were obviously a cert and then bookies couldn't really pick between us and Oxford.paulsturgess said:
We are not overachieving!Stu_of_Kunming said:
The mess that has us overachieving?iaitch said:
Jones has got us in this mess or does he only accept praise and doesn't like criticism?TootingRedArmy said:Yes, we’re on a poor run. But I don’t believe there’s a better manager than Nathan Jones to take us through to the end of the season. The man is gloriously bonkers. OTT, needy, emotionally wired straight into the mains. His Achilles heel? Not exactly a champion at taking criticism. But give me that over the other League One Managers we had, also-rans, chancers and blokes who look like they’ve accidentally wandered into the dugout ....Michael Appleton (nightmare) Hands up, would you really want any of them back?
Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Slightly unhinged, Passion pouring out of every pore, veins popping, eyes blazing, fist pumping, nail biting and you know what? I love it.
Confession time: I missed only my second home game last night because I was at a comedy show in Soho. Ironically, I missed what sounds like a very different kind of comedy at The Valley (not). Football is a mad, crazy game. Most Addicks are probably already bracing themselves for the worst at The Den. And yes, odds are our hoodoo against Millwall continues… But it doesn’t always work like that, does it? Stranger things have happened, we might be in for another beating but then again we could sneak a win or a draw, I’m still looking forward to going. Still very much backing the gaffer ! COYA's
Predicted to therefore finish 22nd or 23rd and you can add in the fact we have one of the lowest budgets in the division. Yes the football is currently far from enjoyable but we are currently 18th, so that is ahead of where many predicted us to be.
A lot of people got carried away by our good start and therefore think we're doing shit when overall we're on track. If we'd spent all season jumping around between 18th-23rd and had won on Tuesday and climbed up to 18th then i don't think anyone would be panicking.10 -
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The fact Jones ball is diabolical viewing doesn't help, last time we were in this position, the football was good viewing. At least If we play like the 2nd half against Derby and lose, it seems like we are giving it a go.1
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If we were cruising in midtable I’d say we’re overachieving. As it is, we’re performing on a par with Oxford you mention and right in the relegation mixer. That is not overachieving.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
2nd or 3rd favourites for relegation in pre-season. Sheff Weds were obviously a cert and then bookies couldn't really pick between us and Oxford.paulsturgess said:
We are not overachieving!Stu_of_Kunming said:
The mess that has us overachieving?iaitch said:
Jones has got us in this mess or does he only accept praise and doesn't like criticism?TootingRedArmy said:Yes, we’re on a poor run. But I don’t believe there’s a better manager than Nathan Jones to take us through to the end of the season. The man is gloriously bonkers. OTT, needy, emotionally wired straight into the mains. His Achilles heel? Not exactly a champion at taking criticism. But give me that over the other League One Managers we had, also-rans, chancers and blokes who look like they’ve accidentally wandered into the dugout ....Michael Appleton (nightmare) Hands up, would you really want any of them back?
Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Slightly unhinged, Passion pouring out of every pore, veins popping, eyes blazing, fist pumping, nail biting and you know what? I love it.
Confession time: I missed only my second home game last night because I was at a comedy show in Soho. Ironically, I missed what sounds like a very different kind of comedy at The Valley (not). Football is a mad, crazy game. Most Addicks are probably already bracing themselves for the worst at The Den. And yes, odds are our hoodoo against Millwall continues… But it doesn’t always work like that, does it? Stranger things have happened, we might be in for another beating but then again we could sneak a win or a draw, I’m still looking forward to going. Still very much backing the gaffer ! COYA's
Predicted to therefore finish 22nd or 23rd and you can add in the fact we have one of the lowest budgets in the division. Yes the football is currently far from enjoyable but we are currently 18th, so that is ahead of where many predicted us to be.
A lot of people got carried away by our good start and therefore think we're doing shit when overall we're on track. If we'd spent all season jumping around between 18th-23rd and had won on Tuesday and climbed up to 18th then i don't think anyone would be panicking.To keep repeating - I’m supporting Jones and not calling for his head. However, he warrants and I think needs constructive criticism because we are really, really struggling. I want to see him guide us clear of danger and at the moment it’s at best touch and go if he’s gonna scramble that. I will definitively not be congratulating him if we finish in 22nd place this season because he’s managed to finish above Oxford.2 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:
The mess that has us overachieving?iaitch said:
Jones has got us in this mess or does he only accept praise and doesn't like criticism?TootingRedArmy said:Yes, we’re on a poor run. But I don’t believe there’s a better manager than Nathan Jones to take us through to the end of the season. The man is gloriously bonkers. OTT, needy, emotionally wired straight into the mains. His Achilles heel? Not exactly a champion at taking criticism. But give me that over the other League One Managers we had, also-rans, chancers and blokes who look like they’ve accidentally wandered into the dugout ....Michael Appleton (nightmare) Hands up, would you really want any of them back?
Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Slightly unhinged, Passion pouring out of every pore, veins popping, eyes blazing, fist pumping, nail biting and you know what? I love it.
Confession time: I missed only my second home game last night because I was at a comedy show in Soho. Ironically, I missed what sounds like a very different kind of comedy at The Valley (not). Football is a mad, crazy game. Most Addicks are probably already bracing themselves for the worst at The Den. And yes, odds are our hoodoo against Millwall continues… But it doesn’t always work like that, does it? Stranger things have happened, we might be in for another beating but then again we could sneak a win or a draw, I’m still looking forward to going. Still very much backing the gaffer ! COYA's
We are not overachieving- mid table, at least, is overachieving.I would say we are achieving, or as Gavin Carter puts it reaching our sporting KPIs, what we should be achieving at this stage, so no problems my end.You have to bear in mind they are looking at points not performance.
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It was interesting that 2nd half against Derby we played on the floor far more. Some diagonals but mainly trying to play through the lines and down the wings.Different formation and personel, something Jones and his team have been working on?Perhaps he hasn't the confidence in the personel on the pitch yet, by that I mean the right type of players, to play this style.After a few weeks we may see a change once the new recruits have settled in.We are also overachieving by 12 months at least according to the plan.4
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I also expected inconsistent performances all season. By the nature of the players we have this is natural. 2 players with with more experience at this level have come in.Derby was a shame, and survival is the minimum. It will be telling this summer how the recruitment goes.If we can see a little bit more of the manner of play in Derby 2nd half, and some more balanced consistent play along with staying up. I'll see that as good progress for the first year at this level.Calling for his sacking at this point in the season would be utterly foolish.3
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shine166 said:The fact Jones ball is diabolical viewing doesn't help, last time we were in this position, the football was good viewing. At least If we play like the 2nd half against Derby and lose, it seems like we are giving it a go.
Yes I remember how everyone on here was purring at our brilliant football in 2020 as we got relegated7 -
Well it was better than what we see now and we may still get relgated.cafcnick1992 said:shine166 said:The fact Jones ball is diabolical viewing doesn't help, last time we were in this position, the football was good viewing. At least If we play like the 2nd half against Derby and lose, it seems like we are giving it a go.
Yes I remember how everyone on here was purring at our brilliant football in 2020 as we got relegated
Well done for ignoring the rest of what I said though, regards going for it and looking the better team.0 -
Were we playing brilliant Football back in 2020? - We started off very well, but the injury crisis hit us then, and just remember us being unable to score, because we were relying on Davison, Vennings, Dempsey and Morgan for a lot of games2
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There is one thing playing a certain way to get results, but lumping the ball up to Leaburn and Dykes? I don't see what the plan is or how that will work, and it's not getting results. Why is the formation the same every week? Why aren't we trying something different - surprise our opponents - must be so easy to prepare to play us. The players look short of confidence and belief - managers job is to instil this.
Tactically he isn't getting it right atm
Substitutions haven't worked
Players seemingly have no belief
I don't know if sacking NJ is the right thing - but we have to try something different, and NJ seems reluctant to do that.0 -
Who said brilliant ? I said better.ForeverAddickted said:Were we playing brilliant Football back in 2020? - We started off very well, but the injury crisis hit us then, and just remember us being unable to score, because we were relying on Davison, Vennings, Dempsey and Morgan for a lot of games
Anyone that thinks the CG/Lyle era wasnt better than viewing than this is delusional.2
