What would you ask Nathan Jones to do?

fadgadget · January 25

You've got to hold and give, but do it at the right time
You can be slow or fast, but you must get to the line
They'll always hit you and hurt you, defend and attack
There's only one way to beat them, get 'round the back .......

NabySarr · January 25

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

Go four at the back. Its incredibly clear to anyone who has played the game at a professional level we do not have the CBs capable of playing in a 3, the gqme plan was so clear yesterday for Millwall - Bully Ramsey and Expose Macca hence why Coburn lined up againg LR and Azeez against Macca. When we play 3cbs there is an imperative for the WBs to get forward to provide and putlet but that exposes Macca.

Equally if go back 4 that gives us the chance to actually play with wingers, but that means he would have to admit he was wrong and play Apter in his actual position. Also the experiment has been run and the results are clear TC is not a striker, in fact the only time he looks effectives is when he is forced to go out to the wide. Lets just play him as a winger.

I don't think NJ will do any of this because he is a stubborn man and changing would admit he was wrong, also would mean binning off Kelman who he spent a lot of money on as dont think he can play up
top by himself.

So how come all of our centre backs have only done well in a back 3 in their careers? Plenty of people that have played in the professional game have signed them to play in a 3 and played them in a 3. But there’s actually very little evidence that any of them can be centre backs in a 4 vs plenty of evidence they’ve been successful in a 3 at past clubs and here

What’s actually clear is that we don’t have the defenders capable of playing in a 4. And if we are to switch our setup to a back 4 (I doubt this is the plan) we’d need to sign 2 good defenders at a minimum this week

We’ve switched to a 4 recently in a couple of games. Middlesbrough (disaster) and yesterday (another disaster)

Luckily for you I have a bit of time today so will educate you. Firstly you cant compare going to a back 4 when we are actually chasing the game to starting in a 451 or 433, I dont think I need to expand on why.

Where was Macca successful playing as a CB in a back 3? He got promoted at from L1 with plymouth ill give you that and then was dropped once they got to championship, as for Kayne he was a RWB? Lloyd can play on a back 3 I accept and maybe Burke but thats no good when he is injured every 2 mins.

If we insist on staying witha back 3 we need to sign another 2 cbs who can actually play that formation and arent injury prone plus another WB or 2.

Look it’s cute you thought you had a point but my advice is not to die on this hill, arguing in favour of something that has no factual bearing.

Gillesphey got promoted playing in a back 3 at Plymouth, he was then left out when they changed to a back 4 in the championship. He also obviously was promoted with us in a 3. Very obvious from his career that he’s better in a 3, he’s not good enough for the championship doing that but in a back 4 he’d be absolutely terrible at this level

Lloyd Jones didn’t really do anything in his career until he played well in a 3 at Cambridge and then signed for us, where he didn’t do well in a 4 (in fairness we were shite) but has been excellent in a 3 and it really suits his game.

Amari’i Bell started out as a wing back, while at Luton he also started playing LCB in a 3 which he has continued to do very well for us. Really suits his game perfectly

Burke in his recent career has played well in a 3 at Luton. Don’t know much about his earlier career but maybe he’s played well in a 4 before. Unfortunately he can’t play back to back games so that rules him out

So out of all of our centre backs, only one maybe has played well in a back 4 in their entire careers, and he’s not fit enough to start 2 games in a row. Yet according to your “professional experience” we don’t have the players to play a 3 (despite all the evidence of their whole careers playing in teams that play 3) and instead should be in a 4 (which virtually none of them have ever done well at in the past). Makes sense

Lol how arlbout you respond to the points I actually made and not just make up ypur own counter arguments to arguments I havent made or already debunked. Look this is a waste of my time and I jave no desire to derail this thread for my fellow addicks. I have givin my experienced, professional and expert opinion, you have your opinions and its free country even illogical opinions are allowed.

I have already throughly explained on this thread (and another) why I am right. Feel free to review them. I shant respnd anymore to you unless you respond showing you have actually read mynposts and are replying to what I have wrote not what you wish I have wrote

Experienced, professional and expert ffs😂 maybe I’m being Ronnie Moore’d here and you aren’t a serious poster

Your only point was that our defenders can’t play in a 3. I responded with plenty of evidence that they have all nearly exclusively played in a back 3 at anytime they’ve done well in their careers. That’s clearly responding to your point with evidence, maybe try doing the same back?

Radostanradical · January 25

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

Go four at the back. Its incredibly clear to anyone who has played the game at a professional level we do not have the CBs capable of playing in a 3, the gqme plan was so clear yesterday for Millwall - Bully Ramsey and Expose Macca hence why Coburn lined up againg LR and Azeez against Macca. When we play 3cbs there is an imperative for the WBs to get forward to provide and putlet but that exposes Macca.

Equally if go back 4 that gives us the chance to actually play with wingers, but that means he would have to admit he was wrong and play Apter in his actual position. Also the experiment has been run and the results are clear TC is not a striker, in fact the only time he looks effectives is when he is forced to go out to the wide. Lets just play him as a winger.

I don't think NJ will do any of this because he is a stubborn man and changing would admit he was wrong, also would mean binning off Kelman who he spent a lot of money on as dont think he can play up
top by himself.

So how come all of our centre backs have only done well in a back 3 in their careers? Plenty of people that have played in the professional game have signed them to play in a 3 and played them in a 3. But there’s actually very little evidence that any of them can be centre backs in a 4 vs plenty of evidence they’ve been successful in a 3 at past clubs and here

What’s actually clear is that we don’t have the defenders capable of playing in a 4. And if we are to switch our setup to a back 4 (I doubt this is the plan) we’d need to sign 2 good defenders at a minimum this week

We’ve switched to a 4 recently in a couple of games. Middlesbrough (disaster) and yesterday (another disaster)

Luckily for you I have a bit of time today so will educate you. Firstly you cant compare going to a back 4 when we are actually chasing the game to starting in a 451 or 433, I dont think I need to expand on why.

Where was Macca successful playing as a CB in a back 3? He got promoted at from L1 with plymouth ill give you that and then was dropped once they got to championship, as for Kayne he was a RWB? Lloyd can play on a back 3 I accept and maybe Burke but thats no good when he is injured every 2 mins.

If we insist on staying witha back 3 we need to sign another 2 cbs who can actually play that formation and arent injury prone plus another WB or 2.

Look it’s cute you thought you had a point but my advice is not to die on this hill, arguing in favour of something that has no factual bearing.

Gillesphey got promoted playing in a back 3 at Plymouth, he was then left out when they changed to a back 4 in the championship. He also obviously was promoted with us in a 3. Very obvious from his career that he’s better in a 3, he’s not good enough for the championship doing that but in a back 4 he’d be absolutely terrible at this level

Lloyd Jones didn’t really do anything in his career until he played well in a 3 at Cambridge and then signed for us, where he didn’t do well in a 4 (in fairness we were shite) but has been excellent in a 3 and it really suits his game.

Amari’i Bell started out as a wing back, while at Luton he also started playing LCB in a 3 which he has continued to do very well for us. Really suits his game perfectly

Burke in his recent career has played well in a 3 at Luton. Don’t know much about his earlier career but maybe he’s played well in a 4 before. Unfortunately he can’t play back to back games so that rules him out

So out of all of our centre backs, only one maybe has played well in a back 4 in their entire careers, and he’s not fit enough to start 2 games in a row. Yet according to your “professional experience” we don’t have the players to play a 3 (despite all the evidence of their whole careers playing in teams that play 3) and instead should be in a 4 (which virtually none of them have ever done well at in the past). Makes sense

Lol how arlbout you respond to the points I actually made and not just make up ypur own counter arguments to arguments I havent made or already debunked. Look this is a waste of my time and I jave no desire to derail this thread for my fellow addicks. I have givin my experienced, professional and expert opinion, you have your opinions and its free country even illogical opinions are allowed.

I have already throughly explained on this thread (and another) why I am right. Feel free to review them. I shant respnd anymore to you unless you respond showing you have actually read mynposts and are replying to what I have wrote not what you wish I have wrote

Experienced, professional and expert ffs😂 maybe I’m being Ronnie Moore’d here and you aren’t a serious poster

Your only point was that our defenders can’t play in a 3. I responded with plenty of evidence that they have all nearly exclusively played in a back 3 at anytime they’ve done well in their careers. That’s clearly responding to your point with evidence, maybe try doing the same back?

So you admit that Macca isnt good enough hence plymouth dropping him and playing a back 4 to survive in the Championship ? Which they did in the first season.

Bell is not primarily a CB and has fitness issues, same goes for Burke (fitness issues) so if we play a 3 we would be forced to start Macca who by your own admission isnt good enough? So we are imposing a system that does work on our squad where the CBs are wver (by your own admission not goood enough or have injury issues) and somehow thats less mad than expecting professional defenders to play in a back 4 the most basic defensive structure of the last 60 years?

Thank you for proving my point with your own argument.

NabySarr · January 25

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

Go four at the back. Its incredibly clear to anyone who has played the game at a professional level we do not have the CBs capable of playing in a 3, the gqme plan was so clear yesterday for Millwall - Bully Ramsey and Expose Macca hence why Coburn lined up againg LR and Azeez against Macca. When we play 3cbs there is an imperative for the WBs to get forward to provide and putlet but that exposes Macca.

Equally if go back 4 that gives us the chance to actually play with wingers, but that means he would have to admit he was wrong and play Apter in his actual position. Also the experiment has been run and the results are clear TC is not a striker, in fact the only time he looks effectives is when he is forced to go out to the wide. Lets just play him as a winger.

I don't think NJ will do any of this because he is a stubborn man and changing would admit he was wrong, also would mean binning off Kelman who he spent a lot of money on as dont think he can play up
top by himself.

So how come all of our centre backs have only done well in a back 3 in their careers? Plenty of people that have played in the professional game have signed them to play in a 3 and played them in a 3. But there’s actually very little evidence that any of them can be centre backs in a 4 vs plenty of evidence they’ve been successful in a 3 at past clubs and here

What’s actually clear is that we don’t have the defenders capable of playing in a 4. And if we are to switch our setup to a back 4 (I doubt this is the plan) we’d need to sign 2 good defenders at a minimum this week

We’ve switched to a 4 recently in a couple of games. Middlesbrough (disaster) and yesterday (another disaster)

Luckily for you I have a bit of time today so will educate you. Firstly you cant compare going to a back 4 when we are actually chasing the game to starting in a 451 or 433, I dont think I need to expand on why.

Where was Macca successful playing as a CB in a back 3? He got promoted at from L1 with plymouth ill give you that and then was dropped once they got to championship, as for Kayne he was a RWB? Lloyd can play on a back 3 I accept and maybe Burke but thats no good when he is injured every 2 mins.

If we insist on staying witha back 3 we need to sign another 2 cbs who can actually play that formation and arent injury prone plus another WB or 2.

Look it’s cute you thought you had a point but my advice is not to die on this hill, arguing in favour of something that has no factual bearing.

Gillesphey got promoted playing in a back 3 at Plymouth, he was then left out when they changed to a back 4 in the championship. He also obviously was promoted with us in a 3. Very obvious from his career that he’s better in a 3, he’s not good enough for the championship doing that but in a back 4 he’d be absolutely terrible at this level

Lloyd Jones didn’t really do anything in his career until he played well in a 3 at Cambridge and then signed for us, where he didn’t do well in a 4 (in fairness we were shite) but has been excellent in a 3 and it really suits his game.

Amari’i Bell started out as a wing back, while at Luton he also started playing LCB in a 3 which he has continued to do very well for us. Really suits his game perfectly

Burke in his recent career has played well in a 3 at Luton. Don’t know much about his earlier career but maybe he’s played well in a 4 before. Unfortunately he can’t play back to back games so that rules him out

So out of all of our centre backs, only one maybe has played well in a back 4 in their entire careers, and he’s not fit enough to start 2 games in a row. Yet according to your “professional experience” we don’t have the players to play a 3 (despite all the evidence of their whole careers playing in teams that play 3) and instead should be in a 4 (which virtually none of them have ever done well at in the past). Makes sense

Lol how arlbout you respond to the points I actually made and not just make up ypur own counter arguments to arguments I havent made or already debunked. Look this is a waste of my time and I jave no desire to derail this thread for my fellow addicks. I have givin my experienced, professional and expert opinion, you have your opinions and its free country even illogical opinions are allowed.

I have already throughly explained on this thread (and another) why I am right. Feel free to review them. I shant respnd anymore to you unless you respond showing you have actually read mynposts and are replying to what I have wrote not what you wish I have wrote

Experienced, professional and expert ffs😂 maybe I’m being Ronnie Moore’d here and you aren’t a serious poster

Your only point was that our defenders can’t play in a 3. I responded with plenty of evidence that they have all nearly exclusively played in a back 3 at anytime they’ve done well in their careers. That’s clearly responding to your point with evidence, maybe try doing the same back?

So you admit that Macca isnt good enough hence plymouth dropping him and playing a back 4 to survive in the Championship ? Which they did in the first season.

Bell is not primarily a CB and has fitness issues, same goes for Burke (fitness issues) so if we play a 3 we would be forced to start Macca who by your own admission isnt good enough? So we are imposing a system that does work on our squad where the CBs are wver (by your own admission not goood enough or have injury issues) and somehow thats less mad than expecting professional defenders to play in a back 4 the most basic defensive structure of the last 60 years?

Thank you for proving my point with your own argument.

Who are you starting in a 4 then if you aren’t using Gillesphey (who would obviously be much worse in a 4 than he is a 3)

NabySarr · January 25

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

NabySarr said:

Radostanradical said:

Go four at the back. Its incredibly clear to anyone who has played the game at a professional level we do not have the CBs capable of playing in a 3, the gqme plan was so clear yesterday for Millwall - Bully Ramsey and Expose Macca hence why Coburn lined up againg LR and Azeez against Macca. When we play 3cbs there is an imperative for the WBs to get forward to provide and putlet but that exposes Macca.

Equally if go back 4 that gives us the chance to actually play with wingers, but that means he would have to admit he was wrong and play Apter in his actual position. Also the experiment has been run and the results are clear TC is not a striker, in fact the only time he looks effectives is when he is forced to go out to the wide. Lets just play him as a winger.

I don't think NJ will do any of this because he is a stubborn man and changing would admit he was wrong, also would mean binning off Kelman who he spent a lot of money on as dont think he can play up
top by himself.

So how come all of our centre backs have only done well in a back 3 in their careers? Plenty of people that have played in the professional game have signed them to play in a 3 and played them in a 3. But there’s actually very little evidence that any of them can be centre backs in a 4 vs plenty of evidence they’ve been successful in a 3 at past clubs and here

What’s actually clear is that we don’t have the defenders capable of playing in a 4. And if we are to switch our setup to a back 4 (I doubt this is the plan) we’d need to sign 2 good defenders at a minimum this week

We’ve switched to a 4 recently in a couple of games. Middlesbrough (disaster) and yesterday (another disaster)

Luckily for you I have a bit of time today so will educate you. Firstly you cant compare going to a back 4 when we are actually chasing the game to starting in a 451 or 433, I dont think I need to expand on why.

Where was Macca successful playing as a CB in a back 3? He got promoted at from L1 with plymouth ill give you that and then was dropped once they got to championship, as for Kayne he was a RWB? Lloyd can play on a back 3 I accept and maybe Burke but thats no good when he is injured every 2 mins.

If we insist on staying witha back 3 we need to sign another 2 cbs who can actually play that formation and arent injury prone plus another WB or 2.

Look it’s cute you thought you had a point but my advice is not to die on this hill, arguing in favour of something that has no factual bearing.

Gillesphey got promoted playing in a back 3 at Plymouth, he was then left out when they changed to a back 4 in the championship. He also obviously was promoted with us in a 3. Very obvious from his career that he’s better in a 3, he’s not good enough for the championship doing that but in a back 4 he’d be absolutely terrible at this level

Lloyd Jones didn’t really do anything in his career until he played well in a 3 at Cambridge and then signed for us, where he didn’t do well in a 4 (in fairness we were shite) but has been excellent in a 3 and it really suits his game.

Amari’i Bell started out as a wing back, while at Luton he also started playing LCB in a 3 which he has continued to do very well for us. Really suits his game perfectly

Burke in his recent career has played well in a 3 at Luton. Don’t know much about his earlier career but maybe he’s played well in a 4 before. Unfortunately he can’t play back to back games so that rules him out

So out of all of our centre backs, only one maybe has played well in a back 4 in their entire careers, and he’s not fit enough to start 2 games in a row. Yet according to your “professional experience” we don’t have the players to play a 3 (despite all the evidence of their whole careers playing in teams that play 3) and instead should be in a 4 (which virtually none of them have ever done well at in the past). Makes sense

Lol how arlbout you respond to the points I actually made and not just make up ypur own counter arguments to arguments I havent made or already debunked. Look this is a waste of my time and I jave no desire to derail this thread for my fellow addicks. I have givin my experienced, professional and expert opinion, you have your opinions and its free country even illogical opinions are allowed.

I have already throughly explained on this thread (and another) why I am right. Feel free to review them. I shant respnd anymore to you unless you respond showing you have actually read mynposts and are replying to what I have wrote not what you wish I have wrote

Experienced, professional and expert ffs😂 maybe I’m being Ronnie Moore’d here and you aren’t a serious poster

Your only point was that our defenders can’t play in a 3. I responded with plenty of evidence that they have all nearly exclusively played in a back 3 at anytime they’ve done well in their careers. That’s clearly responding to your point with evidence, maybe try doing the same back?

So you admit that Macca isnt good enough hence plymouth dropping him and playing a back 4 to survive in the Championship ? Which they did in the first season.

Bell is not primarily a CB and has fitness issues, same goes for Burke (fitness issues) so if we play a 3 we would be forced to start Macca who by your own admission isnt good enough? So we are imposing a system that does work on our squad where the CBs are wver (by your own admission not goood enough or have injury issues) and somehow thats less mad than expecting professional defenders to play in a back 4 the most basic defensive structure of the last 60 years?

Thank you for proving my point with your own argument.

Who are you starting in a 4 then if you aren’t using Gillesphey (who would obviously be much worse in a 4 than he is a 3)

Actually I remember from last time you were arguing that you could play Ramsay at centre back in a 4 😂 surely you don’t still think that after watching yesterday’s game?

RC_CAFC · January 25

PWR but I was talking about this yesterday…

We achieved success early on in the season by being solid at the back but being so hot on the press high up the pitch. Then we brought on game changers to win us the game against tired teams.

With that in mind, I think we need to revert back to the start of the season.

We started with Kelman and Campbell with Apter and Carey pressing high.

Gillesphey just isn’t good enough and Ramsay is so off form. I think we need to revert back to the closest thing to what we were doing:

Kaminski

Burke. Jones. Clarke

Coventry. Docherty

Apter. Chambers

Carey

Kelman. Campbell

Get back to getting in their face and make us play less pointless long balls that come straight back.

fenaddick · January 25

Think that team is close to our best available at the moment, not sure Chambers is solid enough defensively though, maybe Clarke could bail him out. When fit you could play Bell at LCB and Clarke at LWB

RC_CAFC · January 25

fenaddick said:

Think that team is close to our best available at the moment, not sure Chambers is solid enough defensively though, maybe Clarke could bail him out. When fit you could play Bell at LCB and Clarke at LWB

Absolutely, when fit Bell gets in straight away. He’s probably our most important player with Jones

queensland_addick · January 25

RC_CAFC said:

PWR but I was talking about this yesterday…

We achieved success early on in the season by being solid at the back but being so hot on the press high up the pitch. Then we brought on game changers to win us the game against tired teams.

With that in mind, I think we need to revert back to the start of the season.

We started with Kelman and Campbell with Apter and Carey pressing high.

Gillesphey just isn’t good enough and Ramsay is so off form. I think we need to revert back to the closest thing to what we were doing:

Kaminski

Burke. Jones. Clarke

Coventry. Docherty

Apter. Chambers

Carey

Kelman. Campbell

Get back to getting in their face and make us play less pointless long balls that come straight back.

But all the pressing and 110% effort wasn't, and isn't sustainable, it lead to burn out and injuries.
Good teams allow the ball to do the work.
It worked OK last season because opposition players weren't nearly as talented. But in this league, if the effort levels drop 20% and you're still not using the ball effectively, the opposition will tear you apart.
That appears to be the flaw with Nathan's obsession with his "front footedness", "best versions of ourselves" gameplan.
It seems to always be about effort, hard work, and adhering to the system. It's never about playing good football and creating goal scoring opportunities.

The Red Robin · January 25

I’d ask him if he’d ever watched Millwall play before yesterday.

DOUCHER · January 25

go 451 and get a winger on either side

wmcf123 · January 25

Oh Eddie Youds... said:

Have an honest chat with the board & explain that we have one week left in the transfer window to save our season.

Would you trust him to pick the right players ?

Clem_Snide · January 25

Was out all day yesterday and only got home this afternoon. Forced myself to watch the game today.

That second half was a total and utter disgrace. Brainless, gutless and clueless. Let’s not dress this up, an utter pasting has been coming for weeks. We have been horrific for as long as I can remember.

There were players out there yesterday who simply did not want to be there and had no interest in fighting for the shirt.

There were others who are barely League One standard, let alone Championship.

i am sick of repeating myself, but the issues are clear. No dynamism in midfield, no one in central areas who can drive us up the pitch, if Lloyd Jones has an off day the entire defence fall to pieces and a manger who appears to be blind to all this and thinks forcing a team to play his own unique brand of hoof ball week after week is at some point going to work.

The players and manager have to collectively take responsibility for that shit show, but you can’t talk about the game without picking out individuals. Kanye Ramsay has gone from Rolls Royce to Austin Maxi in the space of 10 games. It’s inexplicable and the only reason I can think is his head has been turned and he no longer wants to be here. Gillesphy is simply incapable of playing at this level, his positional sense is appalling and his chronic lack of pace bordering on embarrassing.

Reece Burke looked like an utter cart horse, is he carrying another injury? It’s boring, and whoever signed off on his contract wants shooting.

I will admit that I was banging the drum for Anderson to be put in, simply because he is the only midfielder with anything resembling an ability to get about the pitch…..it hasn’t worked, but putting the poor sod in that deep laying roll again after the performance against Sheffield Utd is mental.

We are clearly utterly bereft of confidence and I am slipping into the school
of thought that Jones has lost the players. The treatment of Apter and Docherty is utterly baffling.

Even in decent form yesterday was going to be tough against a team light years ahead of us and I am sure most in the away end would have agreed that we needed experienced heads and leaders playing in their correct positions. Instead we have a half fit left back thrown in, a woefully out of form Ramsay wheeled out, Anderson stuck in a key position that he has never played well in and TC again played up top and Kelman/an in form Leaburn left out? The team appear to have no confidence in Kaminski so why not look to bring in a guy who actually tries to control and dominate his box?

Players are being shoe horned into a formation that Jones seems almost obsessively committed to. Why is he incapable of doing something different? Why has he only now started admitting the midfield is totally inadequate? Why won’t he play five in midfield? If he wants to play shit, spoiler football, why won’t he stick 10 men behind the ball and simply focus on not getting beaten? I am not yet advocating a change but my patience is wearing very thin.

I genuinely have no idea where we go from here as we are 3/4 proper Championship players short at the moment. At best I think we will see 2 come in and I fear that won’t be enough to save us.

The Red Robin · January 25

Spot on @Clem_Snide

charlton_hero · January 25

Let's have shots, plenty of shots.

Fumbluff · January 25

charlton_hero said:

Let's have shots, plenty of shots.

Let’s have A shot, but let’s wait until we’re 3-0 down in the 80th minute ok

th0rryy · January 25

I would ask him to:

- immediately stop picking Karoy to start games, as it will do more damage than good to force that young lad to play at a level he is simply not good enough (yet, perhaps?) to play at.
- sign AT LEAST two (if not three) players (another ball-playing, passing CM to play alongside Cov and compete with JR-C, and a LCB to prevent us needing to play Macca in anything outside of cover/emergency. Another fit LWB is poss (but tbqfh, it seems it was almost impossible to get anything more than the one we did sign, and one we need to "manage minutes").
- ONLY sign players that are fit and good to go. If that means raiding L1, then so be it - there is quality in there that can/will step up next season IF we can find it. Spend the money to do that, because the alternative could easily be going straight back down to L1. Ship players out if wages are the issue.
- consider changing system and formation to allow for a 4 man defense AND having TC/Apter on opposite wings with players behind them defensively.
- bring these players together as a team and, if needed, get clear the air talks done with players now.

Ultimately, NJ needs better players to play the system(s) he wants, so to that end, I would give him the money to do that. It is absolutely a bit of a gamble and could not solve the issue, but we are absolutely, once again, staring down the barrel of the L1 relegation gun again. Look at the teams down there struggling again. Luton. Rotherham. Plymouth. Barnsley. It's an absolute shitfest of a league to get out of. We've done the "hard" bit to get here - roll the dice, get the reinforcements in and stay in the league. It's not my money and I get the hesitance, but losing Championship status condemns us to more uncertainty. I am just about in the camp of backing NJ, but this week as the last week of the window cannot be understated of how important it is to our football club.

I have read so much on here about the 3 vs 4 CB argument - I see it from both angles, but honestly, I think NJ has stuck rigidly to it and he will die on that hill. LJones lacks a little bit of pace, so that's why I think the 3 suits him. Ramsay has struggled as a RCB, Burke is fragile, Macca is a confidence player (who also lacks even more pace) and Gough is too inexperienced. Personally, I would pick Clarke - Jones - <New>/Bell/Burke - <New>/Bell/Chambers as a 4, with Gough the next to come in, plus Macca as emergency. I think Kaminski also impacts this defensive line, so I think it's time to pull the trigger and bring back Mannion.

The reason I want the change is to allow for us to play TC and Apter as freed, attacking, non-WB threats and give something for teams to think about. Fullah can cover for either of them, plus, at some point, maybe even Hernandez can fit in there. I absolutely get that this is not the preferred for some of our defensive players, but Coventry already drops in deep to cover and support, and you have a defensive unit of 4 that primarily looks to defend, whilst also giving threats on both sides. This was the recipe we lucked out on in L1 when we had both Small and TC in the side. Teams couldn't just double up against our one threat, because of the space that meant on the other. Maybe I am being absolutely naive and NJ knows something I don't, but I just feel that if we had a new manager assess what we had and picked the team, the likelihood of someone picking that would probably be quite high.

It frustrates me so much that we were supposedly built on solidity and clean sheets, but when that goes and the system fails us with the players we have in the club, what should be done? Just keep playing the same players and expect a different result? Sign fit, ready to go players and play that system, or, change the system to fit what we do have. This week determines the first part, but if we don't, NJ needs to consider the second.

We are in an absolute relegation dogfight, but inaction or reluctance to change are both completely unacceptable.

MarcusH26 · January 25

I think the negative stick men behind the ball and be horrible to play against looking to nick one off a setpiece needs to stop. Frustrating we've seen flashes of what we could be like , Ipswich away, Blackburn at Home , Bree's team goal up at Derby , TCs goal at home to Derby but they've been few and far between.

NJ needs to let the brakes off , get some creativity on the pitch , go and get a dynamic CM that drives us forward and can handle a battle against someone like a De Norre on Saturday. Long ball at Lyndon Dykes isn't going to keep us out of trouble.

fenaddick · January 25

Always look forward to a @th0rryy long post 👏

jimmymelrose · January 25

Read your Bible especially the parts about forgiveness. Then apologise to any players you’ve upset and get the team spirit and hard work ethic back.

th0rryy · January 25

fenaddick said:

Always look forward to a @th0rryy long post 👏

Image: https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExYWxmMDBtbHQwang2eG1nYnNzeHNwZzB1MzJvcnJnbXB1cThmY2xhNyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/EpFCnCkQ05MYAO8Rsv/giphy.gif

Dazzler21 · January 25

I'd ask him to sign genuine Championship quality players with no history of persistent injuries for any position we have injury burdened players currently.

I genuinely believe if we got a proper CM, LWB and a LCB that doesn't have a collapsing ceiling we'd be sorted.

3 permanent players for what we'd need probably £15m required. But this isn't football manager 26

NabySarr · January 25

Dazzler21 said:

I'd ask him to sign genuine Championship quality players with no history of persistent injuries for any position we have injury burdened players currently.

I genuinely believe if we got a proper CM, LWB and a LCB that doesn't have a collapsing ceiling we'd be sorted.

3 permanent players for what we'd need probably £15m required. But this isn't football manager 26

He’s probably been asking the board for the same for the last 8 months. We simply can’t afford it and aren’t the most attractive proposition for a proven championship footballer that can stay fit

Those are the 3 key positions we need to strengthen, but the left sided ones are very difficult to find. I think Clarke and Dykes are the kind of signings we need, if we can find 3 more similar level players in those positions then we will be fine

YannTheMann · January 25

charlton_hero said:

Let's have shots, plenty of shots.

Shhhhh Sonny Carey might be listening and he don't need any more excuses to pop an absolute pearolller from 30 yards

Fanny Fanackapan · January 25

One view on the subject from Royal Tunbridge Wells ( and yes- we do have water...for now !)

Give generous contracts until the end of this season to the Lifers talking a shedload of sense here tonight.

Two regular, insightful posters whose opinions I respect & look forward to hearing from.

For me, they have yet again hit more than a few nails on the head with reference to our latest debacle but also offering " doable" suggestions as to how NJ might address the major issues that are currently taking our club dangerously down the league.

It would appear to me that the gaffer is finding it increasingly difficult to see the wood for the trees.

Views from "the other side" / the faithful who have some experience & watch from the Stands match after match, might help to clarify the options he has at his disposal and hence get his head straight once again. It must be in complete turmoil at this moment in time...

So, step forward @Sage & @Swisdom. Wise heads whose insight I, for one, find invaluable and I'd bet I'm not alone in this. Respected contributors indeed & more than just fans.

Now, who'll volunteer to call Sparrows Lane in the morning ?

Ah, one final plea from Fanny.

If possible, please could we refrain from using the term "going down" when referring to the worst possible outcome from this season.

Sadly, a combination of 2 tins of concourse based wine plus the stress of watching 90 minutes from the away end yesterday, resulted in an undignified base over apex incident on the way back to the car which fortunately was only witnessed by family members ( I hope !)

Any reminder of this, which has left the old girl with bruised ribs & a sore arm, will cause untold embarrassment & blemish my spotless reputation. Thank you x

Hic !

Dazzler21 · January 26

NabySarr said:

Dazzler21 said:

I'd ask him to sign genuine Championship quality players with no history of persistent injuries for any position we have injury burdened players currently.

I genuinely believe if we got a proper CM, LWB and a LCB that doesn't have a collapsing ceiling we'd be sorted.

3 permanent players for what we'd need probably £15m required. But this isn't football manager 26

He’s probably been asking the board for the same for the last 8 months. We simply can’t afford it and aren’t the most attractive proposition for a proven championship footballer that can stay fit

Those are the 3 key positions we need to strengthen, but the left sided ones are very difficult to find. I think Clarke and Dykes are the kind of signings we need, if we can find 3 more similar level players in those positions then we will be fine

I agree btw, but the question is what would you ask him. That would be it. He can answer how he likes. I'd just want confirmation that we're always looking to improve.

Chris_from_Sidcup · January 26

Kaminski

Clarke - Burke - Jones - Chambers

Coventry - Docherty

Apter - Carey - Campbell

Leaburn

Sword65pf · January 26

NabySarr said:

Dazzler21 said:

I'd ask him to sign genuine Championship quality players with no history of persistent injuries for any position we have injury burdened players currently.

I genuinely believe if we got a proper CM, LWB and a LCB that doesn't have a collapsing ceiling we'd be sorted.

3 permanent players for what we'd need probably £15m required. But this isn't football manager 26

He’s probably been asking the board for the same for the last 8 months. We simply can’t afford it and aren’t the most attractive proposition for a proven championship footballer that can stay fit

Those are the 3 key positions we need to strengthen, but the left sided ones are very difficult to find. I think Clarke and Dykes are the kind of signings we need, if we can find 3 more similar level players in those positions then we will be fine

Can we not afford it or do we refuse to afford it?

Melrose · January 26

I would ask him to kindly "fall on his sword" before any of the players shove it up his....😊

NabySarr · January 26

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Kaminski

Clarke - Burke - Jones - Chambers

Coventry - Docherty

Apter - Carey - Campbell

Leaburn

Chambers is an attacking full back. He gets forward and then you’re asking Jones to cover that space, taking him away from being the middle of our defence. It just doesn’t work when you’re taking our most important player out of where we need him and exposing him to that space. He’s so good in the middle of a 3 but if we played the above he’d struggle a lot more

If we want to play 4 at the back we need a new LCB, or we need Bell to be fit at LB. You can’t have Jones next to an attacking full back

And that’s before we even start on the rest of the problems here. Burke can’t play 2 games in a row, so what do you do for the next game?

And then we have no cover for Apter and TC. Tanto and Fullah are not wingers at this level

What would you ask Nathan Jones to do?

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