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Quick question for Led Zep fans
Comments
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One of the Greatest rock bands ever. Imo Physical Graffiti is probably their best album & play tracks from it almost every day via youtube. On my current playlist is Down by the Seaside, 10 Years Gone & In the Light.2
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Absolutely, and the film explained to me why that claim has a solid foundation. I now understand that while all four had the raw talent, Page and JPJ also effectively had the benefit of being in a rock equivalent of a Category 1 Academy. As teenagers they were recruited for session work with some of the biggest names in pop and rock. I have also never really appreciated until now just how carefully Jimmy Page curated the tracklist of Led Zeppelin 2 to be enjoyed as a whole in one listen, which really works so well ; and how he made sure the record label couldn't cut a single off the album. He hated the concept of singles. But later on they happened. I am 90% certain that I possessed a single of Black Dog and Misty Mountain Hop.golfaddick said:One of the Greatest rock bands ever. Imo Physical Graffiti is probably their best album & play tracks from it almost every day via youtube. On my current playlist is Down by the Seaside, 10 Years Gone & In the Light.0 -
Most importantly, it contained the first footage of Johnny Kidd and the Pirates playing live anyone has ever seen...
As you say Richard, Page and JPJ played on many hits of the sixties that nobody realises they had anything to do with.0 -
Was just thinking how dear old Addickted would have reacted to HI’s opinion of Zeppelin……having been a huge fan he would have gone apoplectic.
A good few haircuts back, he actually met Robert Plant, quite by accident, at London Bridge Borough Market and struck up a very friendly conversation with him.
Being a huge fan, it must have been one of the most memorable moments of his life.
Addickted old son, a top fella, one of the very best posters ever on CL and a much missed pal to many.0 -
In my opinion, the third greatest band of all time, behind Floyd who are both a distance behind the Stones.Interesting that Keith Richards was and is one of the most critical of Led Zep, although he accepts the guitar genius of Page and for him Zep were Page's band.0
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Don't worry Nick and I had that discussion.SoundAsa£ said:Was just thinking how dear old Addickted would have reacted to HI’s opinion of Zeppelin……having been a huge fan he would have gone apoplectic.
A good few haircuts back, he actually met Robert Plant, quite by accident, at London Bridge Market and struck up a very friendly conversation with him.
Being a huge fan, it must have been one of the most memorable moments of his life.
Addickted old son, a top fella, one of the very best posters ever on CL and a much missed pal to many.
Still can't stand Plant's screaming, the endless drum solos, the cod mystical lyrics and the blatent stealing of riffs and even whole songs from mainly Black artists.
Thank gawd we have the Velvet Underground.
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Well various notable Black artists get prominent exposure in that film as key early influencers on the band members. (although the film does not try to address the accusations you make, which may or may not have merit).Henry Irving said:
Don't worry Nick and I had that discussion.SoundAsa£ said:Was just thinking how dear old Addickted would have reacted to HI’s opinion of Zeppelin……having been a huge fan he would have gone apoplectic.
A good few haircuts back, he actually met Robert Plant, quite by accident, at London Bridge Market and struck up a very friendly conversation with him.
Being a huge fan, it must have been one of the most memorable moments of his life.
Addickted old son, a top fella, one of the very best posters ever on CL and a much missed pal to many.
Still can't stand Plant's screaming, the endless drum solos, the cod mystical lyrics and the blatent stealing of riffs and even whole songs from mainly Black artists.
Thank gawd we have the Velvet Underground.0 -
"May or may not have merit" @PragueAddick you must be jokingPragueAddick said:
Well various notable Black artists get prominent exposure in that film as key early influencers on the band members. (although the film does not try to address the accusations you make, which may or may not have merit).Henry Irving said:
Don't worry Nick and I had that discussion.SoundAsa£ said:Was just thinking how dear old Addickted would have reacted to HI’s opinion of Zeppelin……having been a huge fan he would have gone apoplectic.
A good few haircuts back, he actually met Robert Plant, quite by accident, at London Bridge Market and struck up a very friendly conversation with him.
Being a huge fan, it must have been one of the most memorable moments of his life.
Addickted old son, a top fella, one of the very best posters ever on CL and a much missed pal to many.
Still can't stand Plant's screaming, the endless drum solos, the cod mystical lyrics and the blatent stealing of riffs and even whole songs from mainly Black artists.
Thank gawd we have the Velvet Underground.
Their rip offs even have their own wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Led_Zeppelin_songs_written_or_inspired_by_others0 -
Oh i thought you were talking about the Stones stealing riffs, whole songs and indeed genres of music from black artists.0
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They did it too but not as much as LZ eg The Last TimeAlwaysneil said:Oh i thought you were talking about the Stones stealing riffs, whole songs and indeed genres of music from black artists.
They are also a much, much better band1 -
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Everyone owes it all to Blind Lemon Pye2
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Not forgetting Blind Melon Chitlin.😂RalphMilnesgut said:Everyone owes it all to Blind Lemon Pye0 -
Back in 1970 our family record player was a standalone Bush player. I'd read somewhere that this could be turned into a stereo player by purchasing a purpose built active Bush extension speaker and a very long 5 pin din cable to connect.
Anyway 16 years old, just started work and I made the investment. Home alone I set it up, cranked up the volume and dragged the armchair to the centre point. On goes Led Zep II and jeez ... it blew me away ... or to use the vernacular of the time 'It sent me man'.
I've never forgotten that experience and still to this day I admire the quality that stereo brings. And yes, I still listen to Led Zep II and yes, it still 'Sends me.'
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Funny, because there aren't that many "drum solos" in LZ songs. Certainly not long drawn out ones. And the mystical lyrics are mainly found on 1 or 2 albums (Led Zep 4 being the most famous).Henry Irving said:
Don't worry Nick and I had that discussion.SoundAsa£ said:Was just thinking how dear old Addickted would have reacted to HI’s opinion of Zeppelin……having been a huge fan he would have gone apoplectic.
A good few haircuts back, he actually met Robert Plant, quite by accident, at London Bridge Market and struck up a very friendly conversation with him.
Being a huge fan, it must have been one of the most memorable moments of his life.
Addickted old son, a top fella, one of the very best posters ever on CL and a much missed pal to many.
Still can't stand Plant's screaming, the endless drum solos, the cod mystical lyrics and the blatent stealing of riffs and even whole songs from mainly Black artists.
Thank gawd we have the Velvet Underground.
But don't worry @Henry Irving, the world would be a sadder place if we all agreed on everything.
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in your opinionHenry Irving said:
They did it too but not as much as LZ eg The Last TimeAlwaysneil said:Oh i thought you were talking about the Stones stealing riffs, whole songs and indeed genres of music from black artists.
They are also a much, much better band1 -
from the very old schoolboy joke .. 'My bird does EVERYTHING I ask' .. 'Do yer make 'er' ? (J'Make er) .. 'Nah, she does it cos she loves me'
Similar, more disreputable versions are avaliable0 -
That dreadful song made No 1 mate and was a piss take of that music.Henry Irving said:awful cod reggae from an awful band. Made that dreadful 10CC song Dreadlock holiday song seem vaguely good in comparison.
There was loads of fantastic reggae around then (74?) but none of it was done by rock bands0 -
It's that time again.Off_it said:
Attention seeking?PaddyP17 said:Hahaha how can someone call Led Zeppelin an awful band
I mean, why come on a thread asking a "quick question for Led Zep fans" just to then say how you're not a fan and the band are awful? Very odd, but you can set your watch by it.
Set your watch by it.1 -
I saw Johnny Kidd and the Pirates at The Lyceum, supporting The Stray Cats.Algarveaddick said:Most importantly, it contained the first footage of Johnny Kidd and the Pirates playing live anyone has ever seen...
As you say Richard, Page and JPJ played on many hits of the sixties that nobody realises they had anything to do with.
The Stray Cats played at the Lyceum Ballroom in London in March 1981, with vintage gig advertising from that time indicating that The Pirates (often associated with the legacy of Johnny Kidd) were featured as support.Key Details of the Performance:- Venue: Lyceum Ballroom, London.
- Dates: Original advertisements for the event show the Stray Cats playing the Lyceum on March 22 and March 23, 1981.
- Support Band: The Pirates (sometimes referred in that era as Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, or simply The Pirates featuring Mick Green).
- Supporting Acts: The Barracudas were also listed on advertisements for these 1981 Lyceum gigs.
The Stray Cats were a pivotal rockabilly band that "burst onto the scene in 1981" in the UK, often playing high-energy sets in London to massive crowds at venues like the Lyceum before breaking through internationally.1 -
You saw The Pirates, CE. Poor old Johnny had been dead fifteen years by that time. I still would have liked to have been there though...Covered End said:
I saw Johnny Kidd and the Pirates at The Lyceum, supporting The Stray Cats.Algarveaddick said:Most importantly, it contained the first footage of Johnny Kidd and the Pirates playing live anyone has ever seen...
As you say Richard, Page and JPJ played on many hits of the sixties that nobody realises they had anything to do with.
The Stray Cats played at the Lyceum Ballroom in London in March 1981, with vintage gig advertising from that time indicating that The Pirates (often associated with the legacy of Johnny Kidd) were featured as support.Key Details of the Performance:- Venue: Lyceum Ballroom, London.
- Dates: Original advertisements for the event show the Stray Cats playing the Lyceum on March 22 and March 23, 1981.
- Support Band: The Pirates (sometimes referred in that era as Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, or simply The Pirates featuring Mick Green).
- Supporting Acts: The Barracudas were also listed on advertisements for these 1981 Lyceum gigs.
The Stray Cats were a pivotal rockabilly band that "burst onto the scene in 1981" in the UK, often playing high-energy sets in London to massive crowds at venues like the Lyceum before breaking through internationally.
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One of my latest new tattoos - done a couple of weeks ago - Led Zep are without question one of the greatest rock bands of all time - my 3 favourite tracks, Rock and Roll, Livin Lovin Maid and Ramble On3 -
And this might be my next one1 -
I can’t think of any bum tracks.Lordflashheart said:One of my latest new tattoos - done a couple of weeks ago - Led Zep are without question one of the greatest rock bands of all time - my 3 favourite tracks, Rock and Roll, Livin Lovin Maid and Ramble On
I did read once that Jimmy Page wasn’t that keen on Livin Lovin Maid as it was ‘too easy’.
It isn’t only about the tracks and polished recordings though. I have seen them live nine times, and they never played the same piece the same way.
I am sure you will agree they were all top rated musicians (including Plant, although if people don’t like his singing that’s that, but he is also pretty handy on the harmonica) and the thing about them was the almost telepathic musical connection they had, very often evident when they played live.
It is one of the great happenstances in musical history that these four very young blokes, all seriously committed to music and respectful of musical heritage of all kinds, found each other in the London of the late sixties.
Zeppelin only fit into one genre, that of talented musicians who could deliver live without all the modern day technology they have now. Their intensity of touring and playing, and the albums being put out much more rapidly than seems to happen now was a different world back then.
Otherwise they defied any genre, is ‘Tangerine’ heavy metal? Is ‘Gallows Pole’ rock and roll? Is ‘No Quarter’ blues? Is ‘The Battle of Evermore’ punk?
And as for Bonham, his drum solos could’ve been three times as long as far as I’m concerned. I remember the first gig at Earls Court ‘Moby Dick’ got what must’ve been a ten minute standing ovation.
The saddest thing to have happened is the death of Bonham, still the greatest drummer as musician (as opposed to simply a spectacular pyrotechnic rhythm maker, though he could do that too) there has ever been. Bonham had incredible taste and feel.
Robert Plant once said “Jimmy and I and JPG could come up with ideas, Bonham would make them work”.3 -
I have a couple of led zep albums 2 and 3 and physical graffiti. i find them a bit like the stones (sorry CBLock) that half the albums are full of classics and the rest of the album just made up of pulp.1
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So out of curiosity I read that page. I note that it is a catalogue of instances, only some of which involved court cases, and some of them went against the "plaintiffs". Some consist of little more than critic's opinions.Henry Irving said:
"May or may not have merit" @PragueAddick you must be jokingPragueAddick said:
Well various notable Black artists get prominent exposure in that film as key early influencers on the band members. (although the film does not try to address the accusations you make, which may or may not have merit).Henry Irving said:
Don't worry Nick and I had that discussion.SoundAsa£ said:Was just thinking how dear old Addickted would have reacted to HI’s opinion of Zeppelin……having been a huge fan he would have gone apoplectic.
A good few haircuts back, he actually met Robert Plant, quite by accident, at London Bridge Market and struck up a very friendly conversation with him.
Being a huge fan, it must have been one of the most memorable moments of his life.
Addickted old son, a top fella, one of the very best posters ever on CL and a much missed pal to many.
Still can't stand Plant's screaming, the endless drum solos, the cod mystical lyrics and the blatent stealing of riffs and even whole songs from mainly Black artists.
Thank gawd we have the Velvet Underground.
Their rip offs even have their own wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Led_Zeppelin_songs_written_or_inspired_by_others
But I've always been highly suspicious of such claims, based on what I learnt my career in an adjacent industry which also involved the development of creative ideas. There were legal cases there too. Most were dismissed. It was legally established early on, that there is no legal copyright on ideas, nor on phrases of common language. At the same time I saw many examples of creative ideas where the creators genuinely thought they were original, and were crestfallen to find the same idea had already been used elsewhere. I think much the same thing happens in the creation of music. But of course it didn't stop a legion of usually American lawyers cynically trying it on. I agree that if a musician knowingly lifts a well known line, as Plant admits he once did, it's nowadays asking for trouble if it is done without permission, and not to acknowledge it on the track's credits lacks class. But all this legal shit lacks class too. Take the case of Bitter Sweet Symphony, which I only recently learned about. It turns out that the Verve had actually sought and received permission to sample that. But subsequently the American (see the pattern here) record company which worked with the Stones came after them because "they had used too much of it" and as a result Ashcroft and gang got no royalties from that globally successful song - and saw it used without their permission in ads by Nike among others, because they had lost the rights to their own song. That is until 2019 when Richards and Jagger themselves- in an act of class - decided to right a wrong and return the rights and credits to Ashcroft. Chat GPT provided me with the full detail here, it is well worth reading.
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This is true of so many, if not the majority of albums across the 'rock' spectrum i m oChippycafc said:I have a couple of led zep albums 2 and 3 and physical graffiti. i find them a bit like the stones (sorry CBLock) that half the albums are full of classics and the rest of the album just made up of pulp.1 -
Hmmmmm. Have you ever heard the track The Verve sampled?PragueAddick said:
So out of curiosity I read that page. I note that it is a catalogue of instances, only some of which involved court cases, and some of them went against the "plaintiffs". Some consist of little more than critic's opinions.Henry Irving said:
"May or may not have merit" @PragueAddick you must be jokingPragueAddick said:
Well various notable Black artists get prominent exposure in that film as key early influencers on the band members. (although the film does not try to address the accusations you make, which may or may not have merit).Henry Irving said:
Don't worry Nick and I had that discussion.SoundAsa£ said:Was just thinking how dear old Addickted would have reacted to HI’s opinion of Zeppelin……having been a huge fan he would have gone apoplectic.
A good few haircuts back, he actually met Robert Plant, quite by accident, at London Bridge Market and struck up a very friendly conversation with him.
Being a huge fan, it must have been one of the most memorable moments of his life.
Addickted old son, a top fella, one of the very best posters ever on CL and a much missed pal to many.
Still can't stand Plant's screaming, the endless drum solos, the cod mystical lyrics and the blatent stealing of riffs and even whole songs from mainly Black artists.
Thank gawd we have the Velvet Underground.
Their rip offs even have their own wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Led_Zeppelin_songs_written_or_inspired_by_others
But I've always been highly suspicious of such claims, based on what I learnt my career in an adjacent industry which also involved the development of creative ideas. There were legal cases there too. Most were dismissed. It was legally established early on, that there is no legal copyright on ideas, nor on phrases of common language. At the same time I saw many examples of creative ideas where the creators genuinely thought they were original, and were crestfallen to find the same idea had already been used elsewhere. I think much the same thing happens in the creation of music. But of course it didn't stop a legion of usually American lawyers cynically trying it on. I agree that if a musician knowingly lifts a well known line, as Plant admits he once did, it's nowadays asking for trouble if it is done without permission, and not to acknowledge it on the track's credits lacks class. But all this legal shit lacks class too. Take the case of Bitter Sweet Symphony, which I only recently learned about. It turns out that the Verve had actually sought and received permission to sample that. But subsequently the American (see the pattern here) record company which worked with the Stones came after them because "they had used too much of it" and as a result Ashcroft and gang got no royalties from that globally successful song - and saw it used without their permission in ads by Nike among others, because they had lost the rights to their own song. That is until 2019 when Richards and Jagger themselves- in an act of class - decided to right a wrong and return the rights and credits to Ashcroft. Chat GPT provided me with the full detail here, it is well worth reading.
Yes, they added bits and pieces on around it, but the bit they sampled is essentially the whole of the tune used in Bitter Sweet Symphony. They don't just use a small sample like in some songs, but it's the same sample over and over again in a loop. It IS the tune that everyone knows.
So when you hear it you realise that, as good as Bitter Sweet Symphony may be, the whole tune has basically been lifted from somewhere else. Richard Ashcroft did write the lyrics, but he didn't write the tune. Lyrics are great, but without a tune they're just poetry.
And it's not strictly correct to say that "the American record company that worked with the Stones came after them". That same record company - or rather Allen Klein, the owner of the company - had also fucked the Stones over by more or less "stealing" the bulk of the rights to a large chuck of their earlier songs and trousering the royalties himself - which included The Last Time, which was the Stones song that was reworked into an orchestral version which The Verve then nicked the tune from.
So the Stones got a lot of stick over the whole episode, but they weren't the ones enforcing any rights and the rights weren't theirs to give to Richard Ashcroft, until Klein died and his son took a less aggressive approach.
It's an interesting and cautionary tale and is just one example of many occasions where the creators and artistes of a piece of work have been royally fucked over by the people who were supposed to be looking after their interests, but instead feathered their own nests.0 -
Proving plagiarism is very complex as explained by the excellent Rick Beato.
https://youtu.be/-MBKJDmE-OQ 0 -
yes, he was at Christ’s College Blackheath, the same boarding school I attended. He had left by the time I started there.PragueAddick said:… Born in Sidcup to a family in the music business, boarding school in Blackheath...2 -
What an brilliant explanation of why Stairway to Heaven is not ripped off from another song 👍Raith_C_Chattonell said:Proving plagiarism is very complex as explained by the excellent Rick Beato.https://youtu.be/-MBKJDmE-OQ
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