Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
West Brom Face Potential Points Deduction
Comments
-
I would say the "season" ends on the 23rd May (after the play off final) as that is when ALL teams know which division they will be playing in the following season.WrightCharlie said:FWIW posting some of the text from an article in the Guardian:-
'West Brom could be given a points deduction that relegates them from the Championship after the season has finished as the club contest charges of breaching the English Football League’s profit and sustainability (P&S) rules.With the Championship league season concluding on 2 May the EFL is running out of time to hear the charges against West Brom, which relate to an alleged breach of the £39m loss limit in the three-year period culminating in the 2024-25 season.
EFL sanctioning guidelines state that any punishment for a P&S breach must be applied in the campaign after it took place, which in West Brom’s case means this season, but the rulebook does not give a definitive cutoff point so it is unclear when the season ends.
The situation is complicated by the fact that West Brom are in the middle of a Championship relegation battle, with James Morrison’s side two points clear of third-bottom Oxford United with four games remaining, so even a small points deduction could send them down to League One. As well as the final round of league games there are alternative interpretations of when the season finishes, such as the Championship playoff final on 23 May or even the publication of next season’s fixtures on 25 June, with the latter date having a significant historical precedent which could give the EFL leeway to conclude the case.'
(Certainly can't go as far as 25th June when the fixtures are published because, ergo, you need to know what division you are in BEFORE any fixtures are even contemplated).
So, although very unpalatable, I would say the EFL/WBA/appeal board have until that bank holiday weekend to decide their fate.
However it should have been sorted weeks/ months ago and even now it needs to be done BEFORE the final game of the season. Certainly a decision made THIS WEEK as to what the punishment (if any) is and then WBA have 2 weeks to put in an appeal.8 -
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t we around 250/1 to 300/1 to be relegated……only a month or so back?Bedsaddick said:
You can still get 20-1 on the Betfair Exchangepaulsturgess said:
Have they?! You can still bet on this … paddy power we currently 14/1 to go downMartinCAFC said:Given that the bookies have suspended relegation betting odds there must be a fair chance of a points deduction happening this season then,
I was seriously thinking of putting a couple of hundred quid on……but ElfsborgAddick talked me out of it.🤔2 -
What I find frustrating is that we have this situation so frequently.Penalty’s should be clearly set out. Additional penalty’s for delay and lack of cooperation should also be set out.
Clubs have top firms of accountants preparing these accounts with full knowledge of the regulations. When they submit the accounts on or before the 31st December they should be obliged to address the spending situation, and if there is an overspend, put the case for mitigation.
All the EFL should need to do is make the announcement.Back to WBA. Has a hearing already taken place? I find it inconceivable that one hasn’t and I suspect that the EFL do not want to apply the punishment, and this maybe for good reason. I have some sympathy for the new owner whose expenditure during the takeover will be added back. That said, rules is rules and you can’t pick and choose who to apply them too.3 -
We need to get away from the late accounts view, they didn’t submit their accounts late.
however the point around clear punishment for rule breaks is a valid one and it shouldn’t be difficult for the EFL to put a structure in place for this.2 -
I don't want this dragged out until the Playoff final , that's irrelevant to West Brom, this needs to be known before the final day. Should be an immediate fixed penalty for however big the breach is , just like the immediate penalty for administration.5
-
All this talk of "we're such-and-such odds now to be relegated but a few weeks ago it was this" is daft.SoundAsa£ said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t we around 250/1 to 300/1 to be relegated……only a month or so back?Bedsaddick said:
You can still get 20-1 on the Betfair Exchangepaulsturgess said:
Have they?! You can still bet on this … paddy power we currently 14/1 to go downMartinCAFC said:Given that the bookies have suspended relegation betting odds there must be a fair chance of a points deduction happening this season then,
I was seriously thinking of putting a couple of hundred quid on……but ElfsborgAddick talked me out of it.🤔
Let's put this into a bit of perspective, shall we?
According to William Hill, these were the relegation odds back in August before the season's start:
Chef Wendy - 1/3
Oxford - 9/4
Hull - 3/1
Charlton Athletic - 100/30
Preston - 7/2
Bar - 4/1
In the article on WH's website, written Tony Incenzo, he'd predicted that the bottom four would be:
21. Charlton
------------
22. Pompey
23. Oxford
24. Wednesday
2 -
You should thank him for saving you a couple of hundred quidSoundAsa£ said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t we around 250/1 to 300/1 to be relegated……only a month or so back?Bedsaddick said:
You can still get 20-1 on the Betfair Exchangepaulsturgess said:
Have they?! You can still bet on this … paddy power we currently 14/1 to go downMartinCAFC said:Given that the bookies have suspended relegation betting odds there must be a fair chance of a points deduction happening this season then,
I was seriously thinking of putting a couple of hundred quid on……but ElfsborgAddick talked me out of it.🤔1 -
If you are asking a serious question about what was not intended to be a particularly serious post, then I'll answer seriously: "I have no idea". For avoidance of doubt, my personal opinion is that I don't think I'd ideally want fans of any club to suffer as a consequences of their owners dubious financial practices.bobmunro said:FreshHaddock said:This board currently split 50/50 between those of us that are delighting in the fact that other teams financial impropriety may result in them being relegated instead of us, and those who advocate similar financial impropriety on our part (i.e. actually buying good players) to avoid a future relegation if we *do* manage to stay up.
Is it?
0 -
Happy to be corrected on the below but as i understand it:
West Brom have been charged with a potential PSR breach (worth noting that Keiran Maguire thinks it could be as little as 1-2m once allowable deductions are made)
Their case is reviewed (it may have already been) and a decision made on the points to be deducted.
A decision will be made public.
West Brom have 14 days to appeal, which of course they will.
We wait for the appeal to be heard and then we get a final decision.
Typically this process including appeal has been known to take at least 2 months.
The last game for all of the sides involved in the relegation battle is in 17 days time.4 -
5 -
Sponsored links:
-
"later this month"
Glad that clears it all up then.2 -
Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?2 -
It’s a mess because if they don’t deduct it this season then you’ll have, in this scenario, Oxford’s lawyers going for the EFL for not enforcing their rulesChris_from_Sidcup said:Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?6 -
Chris_from_Sidcup said:Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?
Any punishment should be based on a club's breach of the rules, not on the consequences of the punishment.32 -
Do we need to get a Lawyer just in case then? What's Katrien up to these days?NabySarr said:
It’s a mess because if they don’t deduct it this season then you’ll have, in this scenario, Oxford’s lawyers going for the EFL for not enforcing their rulesChris_from_Sidcup said:Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?4 -
I know precious little about gambling or how or at what stage odds are as ascertained for any sporting eventuality …….all I know is that some folk posted with what seemed some certainty that the odds for us to be relegated were as I have mentioned.Briston_Addick said:
All this talk of "we're such-and-such odds now to be relegated but a few weeks ago it was this" is daft.SoundAsa£ said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t we around 250/1 to 300/1 to be relegated……only a month or so back?Bedsaddick said:
You can still get 20-1 on the Betfair Exchangepaulsturgess said:
Have they?! You can still bet on this … paddy power we currently 14/1 to go downMartinCAFC said:Given that the bookies have suspended relegation betting odds there must be a fair chance of a points deduction happening this season then,
I was seriously thinking of putting a couple of hundred quid on……but ElfsborgAddick talked me out of it.🤔
Let's put this into a bit of perspective, shall we?
According to William Hill, these were the relegation odds back in August before the season's start:
Chef Wendy - 1/3
Oxford - 9/4
Hull - 3/1
Charlton Athletic - 100/30
Preston - 7/2
Bar - 4/1
In the article on WH's website, written Tony Incenzo, he'd predicted that the bottom four would be:
21. Charlton
------------
22. Pompey
23. Oxford
24. Wednesday
So are you saying those odds mentioned by others were not correct, you mention what they were at the earlier part of the season but how can that possibly reflect to what they might have been a month or so ago….I don’t know what you’re trying to imply?0 -
NomadicAddick said:
Do we need to get a Lawyer just in case then? What's Katrien up to these days?NabySarr said:
It’s a mess because if they don’t deduct it this season then you’ll have, in this scenario, Oxford’s lawyers going for the EFL for not enforcing their rulesChris_from_Sidcup said:Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?What about Chris Farnell - I think he's got some time on his hands.Oh wait .....9 -
So, if West Brom are proven to have cheated by spending too much, they should only get a one point deduction because relegation to league one wouldn’t be fair on them??Chris_from_Sidcup said:Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?8 -
Sponsored links:
-
If it's a situation where they're clear by more than one point it'll be a deduction that's measured to still keep them safe. If they survive by one point or goal difference the points will be suspended and they'll be hit with a fine. Finally if they're relegated fair and square the panel will throw the book at them to send a strong message to the rest of the league.0
-
3 points (or less)and it basically says to every other team don’t worry about breaking the financial rules, just get your accounts in extra early enough in the season to make up the extra points if you think you are going to need them.SantaClaus said:If it's a situation where they're clear by more than one point it'll be a deduction that's measured to still keep them safe. If they survive by one point or goal difference the points will be suspended and they'll be hit with a fine. Finally if they're relegated fair and square the panel will throw the book at them to send a strong message to the rest of the league.3 -
I don't understand why this is only coming up now, rather than a month ago (or earlier). If the EFL rules are based around points deductions in the same season, then the process of reviewing the accounts has to be quicker.
Assuming the accounts are submitted on time by the end of December, then they need to be reviewed by mid February at the latest (ideally the end of January), to allow time for charges to be made and appeals to be heard. If this requires more resources, then the Championship clubs should be asked to contribute more.
If the EFL can't work to this timetable, then they need to change their rulebook, so that the punishment is always to be in the following season. Not ideal, but at least everyone will know where they stand, instead of the current mess.12 -
As per bob’s comments, just punish them in line with the breach of the rules. We can’t have future implications being structured into it. Where does it end4
-
I'm saying that at the start of the season the bookies had us as one of the major favourites to be relegated and our odds then were considerably shorter than they are even now.SoundAsa£ said:
I know precious little about gambling or how or at what stage odds are as ascertained for any sporting eventuality …….all I know is that some folk posted with what seemed some certainty that the odds for us to be relegated were as I have mentioned.Briston_Addick said:
All this talk of "we're such-and-such odds now to be relegated but a few weeks ago it was this" is daft.SoundAsa£ said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t we around 250/1 to 300/1 to be relegated……only a month or so back?Bedsaddick said:
You can still get 20-1 on the Betfair Exchangepaulsturgess said:
Have they?! You can still bet on this … paddy power we currently 14/1 to go downMartinCAFC said:Given that the bookies have suspended relegation betting odds there must be a fair chance of a points deduction happening this season then,
I was seriously thinking of putting a couple of hundred quid on……but ElfsborgAddick talked me out of it.🤔
Let's put this into a bit of perspective, shall we?
According to William Hill, these were the relegation odds back in August before the season's start:
Chef Wendy - 1/3
Oxford - 9/4
Hull - 3/1
Charlton Athletic - 100/30
Preston - 7/2
Bar - 4/1
In the article on WH's website, written Tony Incenzo, he'd predicted that the bottom four would be:
21. Charlton
------------
22. Pompey
23. Oxford
24. Wednesday
So are you saying those odds mentioned by others were not correct, you mention what they were at the earlier part of the season but how can that possibly reflect to what they might have been a month or so ago….I don’t know what you’re trying to imply?
People are getting in a tizzy because we've dropped from, say, 100-1 no-one's-putting-money-on-us-to-be-relegated-because-we're-up-the-table down to 16-1 we've-seen-the-form-drop-off-at-the-wrong-time-the-year-so-people-are-having-a-cheeky-flutter-and-the-bookies-have-lowered-the-odds-accordingly.2 -
Briston_Addick said:
I'm saying that at the start of the season the bookies had us as one of the major favourites to be relegated and our odds then were considerably shorter than they are even now.SoundAsa£ said:
I know precious little about gambling or how or at what stage odds are as ascertained for any sporting eventuality …….all I know is that some folk posted with what seemed some certainty that the odds for us to be relegated were as I have mentioned.Briston_Addick said:
All this talk of "we're such-and-such odds now to be relegated but a few weeks ago it was this" is daft.SoundAsa£ said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t we around 250/1 to 300/1 to be relegated……only a month or so back?Bedsaddick said:
You can still get 20-1 on the Betfair Exchangepaulsturgess said:
Have they?! You can still bet on this … paddy power we currently 14/1 to go downMartinCAFC said:Given that the bookies have suspended relegation betting odds there must be a fair chance of a points deduction happening this season then,
I was seriously thinking of putting a couple of hundred quid on……but ElfsborgAddick talked me out of it.🤔
Let's put this into a bit of perspective, shall we?
According to William Hill, these were the relegation odds back in August before the season's start:
Chef Wendy - 1/3
Oxford - 9/4
Hull - 3/1
Charlton Athletic - 100/30
Preston - 7/2
Bar - 4/1
In the article on WH's website, written Tony Incenzo, he'd predicted that the bottom four would be:
21. Charlton
------------
22. Pompey
23. Oxford
24. Wednesday
So are you saying those odds mentioned by others were not correct, you mention what they were at the earlier part of the season but how can that possibly reflect to what they might have been a month or so ago….I don’t know what you’re trying to imply?
People are getting in a tizzy because we've dropped from, say, 100-1 no-one's-putting-money-on-us-to-be-relegated-because-we're-up-the-table down to 16-1 we've-seen-the-form-drop-off-at-the-wrong-time-the-year-so-people-are-having-a-cheeky-flutter-and-the-bookies-have-lowered-the-odds-accordingly.The bookies have lowered the odds primarily because the probability of relegation has increased, not because a few might be having a cheeky flutter.Funnily enough my youngest suggested a couple of weeks ago that we have a ton on at the 200/1 he said he saw on the basis that twenty bags would somewhat soften the blow of relegation. We didn't btw.
1 -
I'm not arguing whether they should or shouldn't, i'm considering a potential scenario and wondering whether a panel would want to relegate a team that could cost them millions and set them back years. However i do agree with what Bob posted.stoneroses19 said:
So, if West Brom are proven to have cheated by spending too much, they should only get a one point deduction because relegation to league one wouldn’t be fair on them??Chris_from_Sidcup said:Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?
I actually hope they win some games so it doesn't come to the last day with things unresolved. Let's just have Oxford and Leicester lose every game and be done with this.
0 -
We all know that but when did sensible ever play a part. West Ham survived relegation in 2007 because "it wouldn't be fair on their fans".bobmunro said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:Let's assume the verdict is given in the week before the final game and they're deducted -2. West Brom then appeal and the last games are played. The season ends with:
West Brom 50 points
-------------------
Oxford 49 points
Leicester 47 points
I just can't see an appeal panel upholding the -2 deduction that puts them on 48 points and sends them down. That's a decision that could ruin a club and set them back 3-4 years.
Could West Brom then take it higher and go to CAS?
Any punishment should be based on a club's breach of the rules, not on the consequences of the punishment.4
