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Mexico v England | World Cup Round of 16 | 5 July 2026
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Great! So Rice and Bellingham could get falsely booked with no VAR allowed to check, and then miss the semi final. Imagine then if you played the USA with Balogen on the field. FIFA bollox.1
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Ironic that you refer to is classless as that is the manner in which most Argentinians I have come across at this tournament and previous ones have behaved. Both last night and the other day for the Egypt game I watched in bars with fans of both nations, and on both occasions the Argentinians needlessly and arrogantly goaded the good natured supporters of the other nations when they scored, and this is something I’ve witnessed at other tournaments and in general with Argentina, elements of racism, conduct of their fans players etc etc. i won’t quote Sir Alf Ramsay’s views on them.jimmymelrose said:
Great post spoilt by a sad, classless, horrid rant at the end. By Argentinian brother in law, who’s a really kind, hardworking, friendly, football loving, family guy congratulated me for our win by the way.paulsturgess said:I was at the game.
Very, very rarely watch games more than once (can only really think of the 1966 WC final reruns and the 98 play off final!). But - I just finished watching back the BBC coverage of the game on my laptop.
What a game. Good to see it on telly and realise how non-stop drama and thrilling it was and how unreal the atmosphere was - as when you're there yourself you sometimes wonder if people are seeing or experiencing the same thing or it's as intense as it feels to you. Seeing the looks of dread on the faces, and everyone's reactions at the sending off, the penalty... having to endure that 40+ mins of just hanging on, hanging on..
Going to the game was incredible; I would choose Charlton over England 99 times out of 100 and it's incredibly hard to compare the experiences like play off final wins (which mean way more to me) Vs England, who frankly (and perversely, given I've travelled to the WC following them!) I am not that bothered about really - however, this was a pretty unrivalled football experience and day in so many ways.
The atmosphere - I imagine there are louder/ more aggressive/ intimidating atmospheres, endless chants etc - but I have never come across one like this with just so many Mexicans just not even singing or chanting but making noise non-stop, waving their flags non stop for 2 hours before the game and then during...
AND THEN - after all that - after the game hundreds of them at the ground, leaving the ground, in the bars, back in the city on the streets, wherever you went - all congratulating us like they were genuinely pleased for us and wishing us to win the tournament. I remember being told Mexico City was the most dangerous city in the world when I was kid, i went before in 2016 and again now and it's really hard to believe that!
Aside from being at the match itself, I felt genuinely emotional seeing how people at home experienced it, pictures and messages from mates etc all living it in the middle of the night on a Sunday/Monday! Absolutely surreal and once again - all the negativity around the tournament beforehand, very very justified hatred of FIFA, Trump etc etc etc and people boycotting BUT, in spite of them, nonetheless... the World Cup is unrivalled in how it brings people together...
Really hope after all this we follow it up on Saturday in what I think could be a really hard game back in the intense heat!
(and a PS to temper all the positivity of this post... fark me I loathe the Argentines so much, utterly classless horrid arrogant bastards, must be the most widely-hated nation...every time I come across them they are obnoxious... hope we complete the HoG redemption process and thrash those scummers in the Semi).
I hate national stereotypes. Most confusion and misunderstanding comes from language barriers.
Contrast that with the Mexicans who I described above (and actually, in fairness, to our own fans at this tournament).Well aware that of course all Argentinians are not horrible and I have met some lovely people when I have travelled around the country too - and sure your Brother in law is a charming fella… but sometimes stereotypes are founded in a semblance of genuine truth… they are rarely entirely fabricated… I’m also more than self-aware enough to recognise some of the stereotypes that are applied to us, which are of course also not universal but are also not entirely made up… we are far from perfect and frankly I can see why many people think we’re a nation of drunken louts but I’m not gonna take personal offence to that.I hate Argentina as a football entity, and their supporter base as a collective (noting that there will be many individuals within that collective who are alright). And I also hate Millwall in the same way.I hope we obliterate them on Wednesday… and if we do I can’t promise I won’t goad them back in spectacular hypocrisy 🤣9 -
I just wondered if you had reflected on whether you would still label my comments as a sad, classless, horrid rant @jimmymelrose ?
Unfortunately, the behaviour of a very large number of the Argentinian supporters in Atlanta yesterday, as well as the players on the pitch, was objectively appalling. Goading prior to the match; abusive, goading and even violent after the match (I ran out of the stadium with many others at the whistle to get out of their and Argentine fans on the streets in the surrounding areas were throwing things, goading, shouting and kicking England fans as they left). Players waving the Falklands flag on the pitch (can you imagine Harry Kane or Rice or Saka doing the opposite?! Mind blowing).
Sounds like this was a common theme across the city. Of course they weren't all party to this behaviour; but I haven't had a single positive / pleasant interaction with the tens of thousands of Argentinian fans in several days here in Atlanta.
For what it's worth, I agree with the general principle of certainly treating national stereotypes with caution / a pinch of salt.
However, I can say having travelled to most countries in South America including Argentina (where I had a brilliant time for what it's worth - great country but the people are simply not, as a collective population, friendly) - and having witnessed them in multiple WCs including watching the 2014 final surrounded by Argentinian fans in Rio (where they were violent and goading towards the small number of good natured German supporters, and fought with the Brazilians) - and now yesterday - I very much stand by my comments which have been very sadly but very vigorously reinforced - "classless, horrid, arrogant and obnoxious" all far too accurate description of the behaviour witnessed over the last 2 days.
I am of course sure your brother-in-law is a lovely intelligent and well-mannered fella and I'm sure there are many Argentinians who are - and with that in mind, I'd be interested to hear his perspective on their collective behaviour. The more self-effacing Argentinians like your brother-in-law might be ashamed by this and it would if nothing else reassure some of my faith in humanity to hear that some of them are self-aware enough to at least be able to recognise this.
It's a great shame that this is the closing memory of this tournament for me and for our fans, especially after the amazing and humbling experience of the game in this thread, and of the sensationally generous and hospitable Mexican people (I haven't and won't be opening the Argentina thread!).
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Good post Mr Sturgess. Agree with all of that. We saw some bad scenes getting out of there. It sure was an experience… and didn’t feel that safe throughout the whole game.Currently still in Atlanta but have come downtown tonight and it is a much nicer atmosphere. Currently in Meehans.
ps Tavern missed your other message. He’s a bit useless at the DM as doesn’t show up on his old phone… I’m his private secretary.4 -
Not at all! I’m flying home tomorrow. Hope you’ve had a great trip despite the result; if you haven’t already been over there, the Beltline around Inman Park / Krog Market etc is really lovely nice area to walk around, loads of bars and restaurants. Fred’s Meats in the market is very good. I’ve really liked Atlanta; incredibly green and quiet for such a big city.Curb_It said:Good post Mr Sturgess. Agree with all of that. We saw some bad scenes getting out of there. It sure was an experience… and didn’t feel that safe throughout the whole game.Currently still in Atlanta but have come downtown tonight and it is a much nicer atmosphere. Currently in Meehans.
ps Tavern missed your other message. He’s a bit useless at the DM as doesn’t show up on his old phone… I’m his private secretary.1 -
@paulsturgess I just want to say that you've dealt with a tricky issue very well in those two posts. Classy, actually.
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I agree 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻PragueAddick said:@paulsturgess I just want to say that you've dealt with a tricky issue very well in those two posts. Classy, actually.1 -
We found that on Thursday. Cracking spot stopped in quite a few bars along the way. Then did a different section of it yesterday which included Piedmont Park which is a lovely park. A nice city.paulsturgess said:
Not at all! I’m flying home tomorrow. Hope you’ve had a great trip despite the result; if you haven’t already been over there, the Beltline around Inman Park / Krog Market etc is really lovely nice area to walk around, loads of bars and restaurants. Fred’s Meats in the market is very good. I’ve really liked Atlanta; incredibly green and quiet for such a big city.Curb_It said:Good post Mr Sturgess. Agree with all of that. We saw some bad scenes getting out of there. It sure was an experience… and didn’t feel that safe throughout the whole game.Currently still in Atlanta but have come downtown tonight and it is a much nicer atmosphere. Currently in Meehans.
ps Tavern missed your other message. He’s a bit useless at the DM as doesn’t show up on his old phone… I’m his private secretary.2 -
Sorry to revisit this in a fit of fury after that final @jimmymelrose . But that was more than football, it was good against evil, corruption and shame.
But to now add today's events to your rather brash assessment of my comments. I watched this, thankfully, from the comfort of my sofa away from the Argentinian fans - but I would love to have a conversation face to face and somebody prove to me that this is a national stereotype as the abundance of evidence now is conclusive about how the Argentinian people, and certainly their footballers and squad tonight - seem to think it is acceptable to act and behave.
I repeat my original statement - I loathe them. And the intelligent, humanitarian Argentinian people amongst their population such as your family members should be truly, truly ashamed of the conduct they have shown in this tournament, and past ones. Their flag should be imprinted into the dictionary next to the explanation of the word classless.
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At least they’re neat and tidy guests… oh
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They foul they cheat they play act they goad they try and get people sent off , the histrionics, the arguing and failing to leave the pitch from Fernandez, the stuff at the end.Atrocious and just the latest in a long long line of it. If our team played like that or our supporters behaved like that, our press and a majority of the public would condemn and hang them out to dry for it (as after the Euro 2020 final stuff). Don’t know how the Argentinian press report their stuff but I sense they think it’s fine - no-one like us, we don’t care. That’s the measure of them!4
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Yes they are the Millwall of international football. They revel in it. So thankful that Spain won out - maybe there is a football god.5
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We attended the game against argentinia and can honestly say I hate them!Weegie Addick said:Yes they are the Millwall of international football. They revel in it. So thankful that Spain won out - maybe there is a football god.2 -
Agreed mate.paulsturgess said:Sorry to revisit this in a fit of fury after that final @jimmymelrose . But that was more than football, it was good against evil, corruption and shame.
But to now add today's events to your rather brash assessment of my comments. I watched this, thankfully, from the comfort of my sofa away from the Argentinian fans - but I would love to have a conversation face to face and somebody prove to me that this is a national stereotype as the abundance of evidence now is conclusive about how the Argentinian people, and certainly their footballers and squad tonight - seem to think it is acceptable to act and behave.
I repeat my original statement - I loathe them. And the intelligent, humanitarian Argentinian people amongst their population such as your family members should be truly, truly ashamed of the conduct they have shown in this tournament, and past ones. Their flag should be imprinted into the dictionary next to the explanation of the word classless.1 -
I caught some type of post match conference with Lionel Scaloni after the game. He said Argentinians are gracious and sporting in victory and defeat. I'm not going to generalise as I've got an Argentinian mate here in Spain who is exactly that. But Scaloni was in the middle of the post match brael his players started, and must have noticed that when Doain collected their prize, his players all very ostentatious turned their backs. So maybe save all the noble sentiments fir when your players and fan's (and yourself) aquire a few. I have great memories of Scaloni playing for Deportivo when we won the Spanish league, but Im pretty certain that in the victory parade, he was the one who started a chant against the local rivals, which really wasn't necessary or correct.
You can take the boy out of Argentina....3 -
What are people's thoughts nearly a week after the Argy game?
Always good to leave it a few days before forming judgement.
I'm as angry and bemused as I was after the game. Maybe more so after a bit of reflection and watching it back.
Just what was agent Tuchel thinking!??3 -
I still think it was pathetic. We saw during the final that Argentina really aren't that great. And yet we scored, pulled down our trousers and bent over. Tuchel was supposed to have prepared us for these moments but he was orchestrating the bending.carly burn said:What are people's thoughts nearly a week after the Argy game?
Always good to leave it a few days before forming judgement.
I'm as angry and bemused as I was after the game. Maybe more so after a bit of reflection and watching it back.
Just what was agent Tuchel thinking!??
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I feel the same. It isn't to say we would have had a different outcome but we played to their strengths and were always going to get the outcome we did going so deep. If Gordon was tired we could have taken him and Kane off and put Saka and Rashford on and carried a threat on the break. I think they wouldn't have been able to play so high up the pitch and we would have has a long ball outlet.6
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Still raging.2
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Tuchel’s subsequent statements about “the team dropped back so I had to help them by adding defenders” properly annoyed me. You’re the manager - you tell the team what to do, and make subs based on that plan.Though I didn’t, and still don’t, mind the change of formation to 5 at the back, as it should have made it easier to press the winger and be closer to the cross they give.However I did think around 75 minutes, and continue to think that Tommy should have taken Kane off. I love Harry, but he regularly feels a duty to drop back and defend, when what we needed was an outlet to give an ‘out ball’, elongate the pitch, and push some of their players back. Instead he was at our 18 yard box. Taking off your captain, talisman and best striker is the kind of decision you pay Tuchel the big bucks to make, and he bottled it.Similarly, no Wharton in the squad for when Rice was knackered was a mistake - despite being that lot, we needed someone classy on the ball who could pick a clearing pass, which he is.5
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Not sure we can get on our high horse about that, have we forgotten the state London was left in after the Euro 2020 (in 2021) final?Callumcafc said:At least they’re neat and tidy guests… oh1 -
Completely agree with this, it's some weird collective mentality they have regarding their country.Weegie Addick said:Yes they are the Millwall of international football. They revel in it. So thankful that Spain won out - maybe there is a football god.
I saw a recent interview with Paul Scholes, and he said the Argentinians he played with like Tevez, Heinze, Veron were all really quiet in the dressing, pretty nice guys etc, but when they played for Argentina they all turned into aggressive pricks who wanted to kill you.
Look at Simeone.
"Giuliano Simeone received 2 yellow cards and 0 red cards in 31 matches in the La Liga 2025/2026 season. He committed 0.94 fouls per 90 minutes"
This prick committed about 5 fouls in one half against us.4 -
It's due to all the gear they stick up their bugles pre matchChris_from_Sidcup said:
Completely agree with this, it's some weird collective mentality they have regarding their country.Weegie Addick said:Yes they are the Millwall of international football. They revel in it. So thankful that Spain won out - maybe there is a football god.
I saw a recent interview with Paul Scholes, and he said the Argentinians he played with like Tevez, Heinze, Veron were all really quiet in the dressing, pretty nice guys etc, but when they played for Argentina they all turned into aggressive pricks who wanted to kill you.
Look at Simeone.
"Giuliano Simeone received 2 yellow cards and 0 red cards in 31 matches in the La Liga 2025/2026 season. He committed 0.94 fouls per 90 minutes"
This prick committed about 5 fouls in one half against us.0 -
Absolutely right. We are far from perfect and have a long line of poor behaviour etc etc. However, I would say almost universally, though, these are caused by the minority - and the majority are both embarrassed by and actively condemn the behaviour of the minority - this was certainly the case in respect of the Euro 2020 final stuff.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Not sure we can get on our high horse about that, have we forgotten the state London was left in after the Euro 2020 (in 2021) final?Callumcafc said:At least they’re neat and tidy guests… oh
We also have a long history of condemning poor behaviour on the pitch - we lay into players just for diving for pens and (somewhat harshly!) many people obliterated Beckham for the petulant kick-out in 1998.
If our players had behaved like the Argentinians did across the final on Sunday I think most people would have hung them out to dry. The Argentinians were welcomed home with a parade.
For all our faults, I think as a collective we generally have a pretty strong sense of "right" and sportsmanship. The sense I get (and open to being proved wrong, by the way - but speaking from my catalogue of experience) is that more Argentinians think it's okay to behave in the way their supporters and players do.
But we haven't won anything for 60 years, they've got 3 World Cups.... who says cheaters never prosper?1 -
This, someone to chase the clearances and try and hit them on the break as well. Rather than them just mopping up every clearance unchallenged and coming straight back at us.MuttleyCAFC said:I feel the same. It isn't to say we would have had a different outcome but we played to their strengths and were always going to get the outcome we did going so deep. If Gordon was tired we could have taken him and Kane off and put Saka and Rashford on and carried a threat on the break. I think they wouldn't have been able to play so high up the pitch and we would have has a long ball outlet.0 -
paulsturgess said:
Absolutely right. We are far from perfect and have a long line of poor behaviour etc etc. However, I would say almost universally, though, these are caused by the minority - and the majority are both embarrassed by and actively condemn the behaviour of the minority - this was certainly the case in respect of the Euro 2020 final stuff.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Not sure we can get on our high horse about that, have we forgotten the state London was left in after the Euro 2020 (in 2021) final?Callumcafc said:At least they’re neat and tidy guests… oh
We also have a long history of condemning poor behaviour on the pitch - we lay into players just for diving for pens and (somewhat harshly!) many people obliterated Beckham for the petulant kick-out in 1998.
If our players had behaved like the Argentinians did across the final on Sunday I think most people would have hung them out to dry. The Argentinians were welcomed home with a parade.
For all our faults, I think as a collective we generally have a pretty strong sense of "right" and sportsmanship. The sense I get (and open to being proved wrong, by the way - but speaking from my catalogue of experience) is that more Argentinians think it's okay to behave in the way their supporters and players do.
But we haven't won anything for 60 years, they've got 3 World Cups.... who says cheaters never prosper?
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@paulsturgess
I'll make a reply out of courtesy
You were at a football match I didn't attend so if the Argentinian fans were that bad, so be it. I've also, in the past, been to matches where English fans behaved badly. We all know about the hooliganism that we suffered.
I think that Argentina is behind us in many ways. People have spoken about their 'racism' but in Argentina there is no racism from my experience because there are no black people to be racist to. Everywhere it seems you get more racists where there are fewer of the supposedly distrustful, ugly immigrants. In cosmopolitan cities, you get less racism. It's fear of the unknown.
My mother in law calls my wife 'negrita' as a term of endearment. It doesn't follow our code of conduct but neither do we follow theirs in many ways.
Apart from my brother in law, who I mentioned, none of the family really care for football. My wife wasn't happy about the disallowed Egypt goal and I could tell that she lost some desire for them to win after that.
As for expecting any of them to feel ashamed, I find it odd to have to be ashamed for the actions of others that you don't know. I might feel this way under similar circumstances but it's as illogical as supporting a team of players you don't know in the first place.
Anyway, I know my wife has no reason to feel ashamed, quite the opposite. 5-6 years ago people were clapping her and her colleagues but what help have hospital workers received since? What extra funding have hospitals received?
None.F-all.
Maybe those who vote for all these crappy politicians should feel ashamed. Certainly, the idiots who abuse doctors and nurses should be ashamed. There are lots of actions I see around me by people that should feel ashamed of themselves imo. I feel ashamed for contributing to global warming but thankfully nothing else.
Do you really want to discuss shame seriously? If so pm me, and we'll have a chat about it sometime.
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Actually that's unfair on Millwall!Weegie Addick said:Yes they are the Millwall of international football. They revel in it. So thankful that Spain won out - maybe there is a football god.
Their fans might revel in their reputation, but the players aren't nasty cheats and thugs.
Crazy Gang Wimbledon is perhaps a better domestic comparison.1 -
I think Paraguay disgusted me the most in their game against France which I initially wanted them to win. How a referee can allow that disusting play is a mystery and maybe it is just a case that some south american football has no standards. I say some as Brazil definitely are not in that category whether they are good or bad. Argentina were not far behind them and it is sad for football that football teams like this exist and FIFA allows this to happen.2
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Hi Jimmy, thanks for the response.jimmymelrose said:@paulsturgess
I'll make a reply out of courtesy
You were at a football match I didn't attend so if the Argentinian fans were that bad, so be it. I've also, in the past, been to matches where English fans behaved badly. We all know about the hooliganism that we suffered.
I think that Argentina is behind us in many ways. People have spoken about their 'racism' but in Argentina there is no racism from my experience because there are no black people to be racist to. Everywhere it seems you get more racists where there are fewer of the supposedly distrustful, ugly immigrants. In cosmopolitan cities, you get less racism. It's fear of the unknown.
My mother in law calls my wife 'negrita' as a term of endearment. It doesn't follow our code of conduct but neither do we follow theirs in many ways.
Apart from my brother in law, who I mentioned, none of the family really care for football. My wife wasn't happy about the disallowed Egypt goal and I could tell that she lost some desire for them to win after that.
As for expecting any of them to feel ashamed, I find it odd to have to be ashamed for the actions of others that you don't know. I might feel this way under similar circumstances but it's as illogical as supporting a team of players you don't know in the first place.
Anyway, I know my wife has no reason to feel ashamed, quite the opposite. 5-6 years ago people were clapping her and her colleagues but what help have hospital workers received since? What extra funding have hospitals received?
None.F-all.
Maybe those who vote for all these crappy politicians should feel ashamed. Certainly, the idiots who abuse doctors and nurses should be ashamed. There are lots of actions I see around me by people that should feel ashamed of themselves imo. I feel ashamed for contributing to global warming but thankfully nothing else.
Do you really want to discuss shame seriously? If so pm me, and we'll have a chat about it sometime.
Firstly; I meant no personal offence to your wife (you previously mentioned brother-in-law) or family. I'm sure they're wonderful people and certainly I can see your wife has done some amazing work for the NHS - and good on her for her disdain about the Egypt injustice.
I do feel if "one" takes offence to criticism of their country/countrymen in this way, then clearly the flag, and their national conduct and image means something to them and with that, therefore, I probably would expect an individual who feels that way to also feel ashamed about their conduct; if you would stand and cheer and celebrate the football team winning the World Cup then I don't think you can shy away from the bad sides of it too.
I am not enormously nationalistic but I do nonetheless feel proud of England and our flag and with that I also feel ashamed and embarrassed when it's represented in a bad light. We are definitely far from perfect! But there are too many examples of poor Argentinian behaviour, cheating, general conduct and fans off the pitch - and very little humility. I believe their fans rioted in Buenos Aires, presumably against their own people / police forces, when they lost the final. The parallels with Millwall continue.
You posted something on another thread; I don't know anything about that topic and it is very, very historic, which I find hard to directly associate with. People alive today can't rewrite history but they can behave in the right way while they're here on earth today. Sadly, I've seen too little of that and too much of the wrong side when crossing paths with Argentina.
But all that said, your wife is a wonderful person and a certain exception to my experiences, not least as she's had the good taste to marry into the CAFC family! So I hope you and her can see it to not take personal offence to my own experiences and I hope she feels very at home and welcome here in the UK - and hopefully at The Valley too! Perhaps we'll see an Argentinian represent us one day who alters my perspectives!
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