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Charlton back up for sale - Guardian article comment from Gavin Carter p18
Comments
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Just read 15 pages at one go and I now feel discombobulated.
I'm not totally surprised at this news as the lack of a Gomez or a Lookman being sold for multi millions may have surprised the owners as they were told we had this conveyor belt of talent constantly coming through our academy.
Anderson, TC, Fullah and Gough have done well to get to the 1st team squad but as we saw with Karoy now sold to Blackpool, these players aren't the same quality as Konsa, Gomez or Lookman and the fees wil reflect this.
The sad truth is now if we had a young Joe, Ezri or Ademola, they are poached when still young academy players before 1st team age, long before we can get millions of pounds for them.
To buy a Kelman or Knibbs the owners thought this would be the spare money over from the selling of a few young players plus half a dozen other academy players would be good enough to be in the squad in the Championship.
"The long haul" isn't as long as it used to be 🤷🏻♂️
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There's almost nothing to sell - Don't stress. Likelihood is as others have pointed out we are in search of further funding more than anything.
All the current owners can sell is a business with no properties, a number of contracts for playing and non playing staff and the potential for those player contracts to be worth more in future, but also the greater potential for them to be worth far less.0 -
On Talksport talking about Westham and Amanda Stavely lookibg to buy 25% Peterbrough ownwr saying why go for 25% at West Ham go down teh raod and buy Charlton8
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If only we know someone in that sector.TelMc32 said:I’m not sure there’s an awful lot of difference between looking for additional investment/investors and a full sale. It’s quite conceivable that achieving the first is a step on the road to the second, which is what it seems Kretinsky intended at WHam until he let his options lapse on both Gold and Sullivan’s stakes and now finds himself having to pay millions more to stave off a new investor.
I am surprised at the choice of advisor though. If your only previous experience in football is with 777 Partners as a client, then you probably should be given a wide berth.4 -
McAntony on talk sport mentioning on the story that Kretinsky is trying to block Staveley at West Ham from taking 25.1%. Reckon it isn't worth the hassle for her and she should have a look at us. Certainly more chance of having more of a controlling stake and honestly, much more room to grow.11
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Possibly if there wasn't plenty of other spelling mistakes.Powell2ThePeople said:
I think you’ve may have just been whooshed…?CaptainRobbo said:
The Guardian are well known for making errors too.Scratchingvalleycat said:Let us wait before behaving like lemmings and jumping off of a cliff in ingnorance of the facts.
1) We knew last Christmas that the owners were seeking fresh investment and a sales document was being prepared;
2 We have now heard from the Grauniad that a sales document has been prepaared which may or may not include a potential sale of the entire club;
3) Is this any different to wahat we heard in January.
Having been involved in many business sales and fundraising efforts to provide future growth for other businesses , you often dangle the carrot that there is an opportunity to buy the whole business either now or at a future date if the potential investor buys 20% at an increased valuaation of the business. What you are looking to find is someone with deep pockets to to buy a stake in Global Football partners that reduces your risk but leaves you in control, but if they want to buy the lot at a vastly inflated price, so be it.
The Grauniad often gets the wrong end of the stick and goes for the sensational. The mistake here is that they approached the club rather than GFP and the club will have little understanding of the detail so didn't comment. Grauniad ups the speculation another notch - it is hardly the Fnancial Times and this is a business transaction, not their strong point. (Even the FT gets it wrong and they are supposed to be the wise financial heads.
Am I worried? No. This seems to me a sales pitch to get more investment into the parent company and spread the risk of the owners in delivering growth. If it turns into a full blown sale then the buyers will have to have deeper pockets than the current owners and a greater appetite for risk so would probably improve the outcome for the club.
This is not the duck tape king shedding the liabilities but retaining the fixed assets in trick sale to a thick wanabe ex football agent, this sounds like a level headed approach to gaining more investment in the business without neccessarily losing control.
So, stop wasting energy in running around like headless chickens speculating about a half baked newspaper article, wait until the facts are clear. I doubt that the sky is actually falling in or that aliens in salmon pink trousers are hiding out in the old caves under Blackheath. Time will tell and if you see me running along Floyd Road screaming fire then join me in the panic. The current owners appear to be sensible business men raising funds, not Donald Trump "doing a deal" with Iran.
Not that I'm a pedant.0 -
The ultimate answer, and it will take time and very probably successive relegations, is to spend one pound less than our yearly income.
It seems to me that any alternative would be leeching on the wealth of a rich person however benevolent or nasty they might be.
It may be we are destined to run at a loss for eternity with all the risk that involves.0 -
Most cup games are treated as friendlies by Charlton.Powell2ThePeople said:
Why has it become a friendly? Did I miss something? I’m guessing so. But confused.Rock Spectacle said:This is hardly a bolt from the blue, only real developments at The Valley have been the dug outs which are now mandatory and painting and renaming some lounges. Warrick's sudden departure was a bit of a warning sign. Without opening a can of worms we been far more proactive in recruitment for the women's team than the men's in relative but obviously not in financial terms. NJ did appear clearly frustrated after Saturday's debacle and despite initial annoyance that the Cheltenham game has become a friendly would now make a bit more sense. Obviously the partners have had a bit of a disagreement about how to take the club forward and possibly no compromise has been reached, so have decided hopefully on an amicable parting of the ways. Wouldn't fancy the gig managing the legal intricacies though. To think when I first saw Oakwell I thought it involved Barnsley...12 -
The good news is that the valuation that the owners will be looking for takes us out of reach of the sort of scumbags that almost destroyed us 6 years ago.
Are there rogues with pots of cash that could buy us? Sure, but if current owners feel that to move us on requires more investment than they're prepared to risk, then it's best for them to exit. Especially as a syndicate of investors, it was always likely they'd quit while ahead rather than tackle the hard yards.
As noted, they can't afford an abject 26-27 season so let's hope the transfer business they've been prepared to sanction is enough for a reasonable year ahead (though I've got to confess more than one pre-season performance has left a lot of doubt).
We'll just have to wait and see who emerges as a potential buyer, if anyone, how communicative they are and what are their plans.
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Was she not interested in us before they bought Newcastle?king addick said:McAntony on talk sport mentioning on the story that Kretinsky is trying to block Staveley at West Ham from taking 25.1%. Reckon it isn't worth the hassle for her and she should have a look at us. Certainly more chance of having more of a controlling stake and honestly, much more room to grow.0 -
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TBF, I thought the buying a stake in West Ham was a smokescreen anyway. It would be too expensive and too long term to buy into that, sort out the ground and remaining owners and make a decent return. Charlton, on the other hand, would be considerably cheaper and quicker on all frontsroseandcrown said:On Talksport talking about Westham and Amanda Stavely lookibg to buy 25% Peterbrough ownwr saying why go for 25% at West Ham go down teh raod and buy Charlton1 -
They better sell us before we sit on 2 points after 8 games.2
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Not too sure tbh. I know she looked at Spurs before West Ham.J BLOCK said:
Was she not interested in us before they bought Newcastle?king addick said:McAntony on talk sport mentioning on the story that Kretinsky is trying to block Staveley at West Ham from taking 25.1%. Reckon it isn't worth the hassle for her and she should have a look at us. Certainly more chance of having more of a controlling stake and honestly, much more room to grow.
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Not sure she'd be the answer anyway, didn't do amazingly at Newcastle and would be looking to sell us in 5 years again anyway1
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Rumours were she was interested in getting the Saudi lot over here and they dabbled with the idea of a London based team, naturally signs pointed to us but given how much of a "project" it would have been, seeing as we were in midtable League 1 at that point, they opted for an easier route at Newcastle instead.J BLOCK said:
Was she not interested in us before they bought Newcastle?king addick said:McAntony on talk sport mentioning on the story that Kretinsky is trying to block Staveley at West Ham from taking 25.1%. Reckon it isn't worth the hassle for her and she should have a look at us. Certainly more chance of having more of a controlling stake and honestly, much more room to grow.0 -
Potentially stating the obvious but this kind of argument could be why it's "leaked" now?roseandcrown said:On Talksport talking about Westham and Amanda Stavely lookibg to buy 25% Peterbrough ownwr saying why go for 25% at West Ham go down teh raod and buy Charlton
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Could be worse - we could have somebody called ‘ kretinsky’ pulling our strings2
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Newcastle are a one city club with 52k fans and West Ham found 62k to attend many matches last season so don't see how Charlton would come into the radar of Amanda Staveley and husband Mehrdad Ghodoussi ?
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They only got into the champions league! Awful tenurefenaddick said:Not sure she'd be the answer anyway, didn't do amazingly at Newcastle and would be looking to sell us in 5 years again anyway1 -
I think the whole "looking for additional investment" line is a bit of a red herring. It feels like they've been looking for a way out for quite some time.
That might also explain the switch in brokers after such a long period with no serious interest (at least publicly).
Maybe they bought into the vision Methven sold them, believed they could make the club sustainable, and then realised it wasn't as straightforward as they'd expected. They moved Charlie and others on, brought in people to steady the ship, and have been positioning the club for a sale ever since.
I think they're happy to put in just enough investment to keep things ticking over and limit their losses. That would also explain the lack of spending this summer compared to last year, while they continue looking for a way out.
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We might sign John Marquis if we're lucky.Chippycafc said:NabySarr said:
I think until this summer that criticism is extremely harsh. They’ve backed us very well up until this pointChippycafc said:Not been happy with our owners since they took over. Their lack of real investment on the playing front each window demonstrates this.
Just hope this doesn't unsettle the players. But I think we are in trouble this season.
I don't think so when you look at the clubs around us Preston, Birmingham, Wrexham etc have gone out and got some marquis players, both bought and loaned to improve their status. With the exception of Kelman its been Luton reserves, free transfers and anybody at a loose end.
Yes the pitch looks lovely but quite frankly you never hear a word from them.
How many more times are we going to have chancers as owners. One of the issues in my view of course is the asking price it's like bargain bucket football club that will only attract those that want to deal at that end.5 -
I’d argue we are just as attractive without the valley and SL.Ilovelondontown said:CAFC= not very attractive
CAFC & GROUND = very attractive
until this is fixed we will struggle.
We are cheaper, can move to another location without needing to sell something that would be difficult to get planning for when there’s change of use involved.
We are certainly more attractive than we were when this lot bought us.
We were staring league 2 in the face last time.
id imagine our finances are far easier reading too.2 -
Not at all surprising, just as I warned previously private equity/hedge funds usually have a 2 to 3 year exit strategy. Just hope those wanting out can quickly roll their investments into new vehicles. More seriously the EFLs fit and proper test has yet again failed us - how can any investor with a time horizon of less than 5 to 10 years seriously be considered as a fit and proper owner of a football club and associated community assets? One for the new football regulator.
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Agreed it is usually 2 to 3 years for private equity investors and has been for a while.soapboxsam said:Just read 15 pages at one go and I now feel discombobulated.
I'm not totally surprised at this news as the lack of a Gomez or a Lookman being sold for multi millions may have surprised the owners as they were told we had this conveyor belt of talent constantly coming through our academy.
Anderson, TC, Fullah and Gough have done well to get to the 1st team squad but as we saw with Karoy now sold to Blackpool, these players aren't the same quality as Konsa, Gomez or Lookman and the fees wil reflect this.
The sad truth is now if we had a young Joe, Ezri or Ademola, they are poached when still young academy players before 1st team age, long before we can get millions of pounds for them.
To buy a Kelman or Knibbs the owners thought this would be the spare money over from the selling of a few young players plus half a dozen other academy players would be good enough to be in the squad in the Championship.
"The long haul" isn't as long as it used to be 🤷🏻♂️0 -
sm said:Not at all surprising, just as I warned previously private equity/hedge funds usually have a 2 to 3 year exit strategy. Just hope those wanting out can quickly roll their investments into new vehicles. More seriously the EFLs fit and proper test has yet again failed us - how can any investor with a time horizon of less than 5 to 10 years seriously be considered as a fit and proper owner of a football club and associated community assets? One for the new football regulator.Of course they can. 5-10 years is a long time in business and how could you possibly restrict ownership to those who 'promise' to be around for upwards of 10 years? How could you enforce it?Football is a business and businesses change hands.
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Methven would probably sold the private equity investors a 2 to 3 year exit strategy as that is probably what they were asking for and it would have fitted with his own 6month to 1 year and up front fee strategy.SELR_addicks said:I think the whole "looking for additional investment" line is a bit of a red herring. It feels like they've been looking for a way out for quite some time.
That might also explain the switch in brokers after such a long period with no serious interest (at least publicly).
Maybe they bought into the vision Methven sold them, believed they could make the club sustainable, and then realised it wasn't as straightforward as they'd expected. They moved Charlie and others on, brought in people to steady the ship, and have been positioning the club for a sale ever since.
I think they're happy to put in just enough investment to keep things ticking over and limit their losses. That would also explain the lack of spending this summer compared to last year, while they continue looking for a way out.
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A new stadium is vastly more expensive than the existing, it also requires land and planning. Like I said, if you’re happy at Selhurst Park then fine. Some people were, initially.CafcSCP said:
I’d argue we are just as attractive without the valley and SL.Ilovelondontown said:CAFC= not very attractive
CAFC & GROUND = very attractive
until this is fixed we will struggle.
We are cheaper, can move to another location without needing to sell something that would be difficult to get planning for when there’s change of use involved.
We are certainly more attractive than we were when this lot bought us.
We were staring league 2 in the face last time.
id imagine our finances are far easier reading too.7 -
I understand where you’re coming from, but that’s just not feasible. In any case, private equity investments are typically 4-7 years (and have been increasing) so would potentially fall into your suggested timeframe. The regulator has a lot to do with the ODT, but you can’t put a minimum tenure on a deal. Circumstances change, markets (local & global) change. A great owner might suddenly find themselves in a situation that needed them to sell. All the regulator can do is tighten up against the fraudsters, and we’re a great case study for them.sm said:Not at all surprising, just as I warned previously private equity/hedge funds usually have a 2 to 3 year exit strategy. Just hope those wanting out can quickly roll their investments into new vehicles. More seriously the EFLs fit and proper test has yet again failed us - how can any investor with a time horizon of less than 5 to 10 years seriously be considered as a fit and proper owner of a football club and associated community assets? One for the new football regulator.1 -
Business as usual cause if there was a plan to sell whether that later they will need the club in a good position and showing a general improvement year in year out .. so the budget will still be there for NJ to get his two players he wantsLincsaddick said:Worrying. Without investment in GOOD players we could well be relegated. In L1 given our bloated squad, expensive academy, overlarge 'backroom' staff, and having to lease our premises, our value would be well below £15 Million, let alone the £40-45 Million being touted as a selling price.
I doubt that owners keen to sell will invest what's needed to mantain our Championship status.
Nathan Jones, his players and coaching staff will have a big job in trying to ignore any negative chit chat and to concentrate on playing football2 -
It seems there's never smoke without fire and "looking for additional investment" is just a phased sale, whatever it is it's a case of meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss!
https://youtu.be/UDfAdHBtK_Q?si=b3ARJ1__KKW-zMXR
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