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Charlton back up for sale - Guardian article comment from Gavin Carter p18
Comments
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Let's hope so .. as ever, we will seeRonnieMoore said:
Business as usual cause if there was a plan to sell whether that later they will need the club in a good position and showing a general improvement year in year out .. so the budget will still be there for NJ to get his two players he wantsLincsaddick said:Worrying. Without investment in GOOD players we could well be relegated. In L1 given our bloated squad, expensive academy, overlarge 'backroom' staff, and having to lease our premises, our value would be well below £15 Million, let alone the £40-45 Million being touted as a selling price.
I doubt that owners keen to sell will invest what's needed to mantain our Championship status.
Nathan Jones, his players and coaching staff will have a big job in trying to ignore any negative chit chat and to concentrate on playing football0 -
There is now probably high risk, high reward, high capital cost 3 to 5 year investment strategy on offer. It might just appeal to a US investor, with a high degree of vanity, especially given the astronomical costs at which Major League Soccer and other US sports franchises currently trade. I suspect the Duchatelet's might also try and unload the ground to anyone keen to take that risk - as it is likely to be their best opportunity for some time.0
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I have to say the silence feels a bit deafening at the moment.6
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Our womens team did great getting promoted,but this is going to cost a lot of money.I see we are signing plenty of players and I wish them every success,but how do we cover the added cost.I cannot see us getting the 5 figure crowds that the established side get,i dont know what the ladies wage structure is,but with the projected cost of us staying in the championship I wonder if the combined costs may just have sparked a bit of concern .0
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They've signed one more player than the men and will be on a fraction of the wage. They also bring in £4m or so in TV money, that's where the money for the new signings will be coming fromthickandthin63 said:Our womens team did great getting promoted,but this is going to cost a lot of money.I see we are signing plenty of players and I wish them every success,but how do we cover the added cost.I cannot see us getting the 5 figure crowds that the established side get,i dont know what the ladies wage structure is,but with the projected cost of us staying in the championship I wonder if the combined costs may just have sparked a bit of concern .7 -
Certainly not in the investors interest for the club to struggle while they are seeking to sell - any threat of relegation will knock millions off the sale price.Lincsaddick said:
Let's hope so .. as ever, we will seeRonnieMoore said:
Business as usual cause if there was a plan to sell whether that later they will need the club in a good position and showing a general improvement year in year out .. so the budget will still be there for NJ to get his two players he wantsLincsaddick said:Worrying. Without investment in GOOD players we could well be relegated. In L1 given our bloated squad, expensive academy, overlarge 'backroom' staff, and having to lease our premises, our value would be well below £15 Million, let alone the £40-45 Million being touted as a selling price.
I doubt that owners keen to sell will invest what's needed to mantain our Championship status.
Nathan Jones, his players and coaching staff will have a big job in trying to ignore any negative chit chat and to concentrate on playing football3 -
That’s decent, don’t realise it was as much as that in the WSL.fenaddick said:
They've signed one more player than the men and will be on a fraction of the wage. They also bring in £4m or so in TV money, that's where the money for the new signings will be coming fromthickandthin63 said:Our womens team did great getting promoted,but this is going to cost a lot of money.I see we are signing plenty of players and I wish them every success,but how do we cover the added cost.I cannot see us getting the 5 figure crowds that the established side get,i dont know what the ladies wage structure is,but with the projected cost of us staying in the championship I wonder if the combined costs may just have sparked a bit of concern .1 -
If they were thinking of selling up they should have gone out of their way to boost season ticket and match sales. On the back of last season’s increase in attendances the club would have been far more attractive if numbers for this season are up and they could also point to the potential upside on ticket prices for any new investor/owner.sm said:
Certainly not in the investors interest for the club to struggle while they are seeking to sell - any threat of relegation will knock millions off the sale price.Lincsaddick said:
Let's hope so .. as ever, we will seeRonnieMoore said:
Business as usual cause if there was a plan to sell whether that later they will need the club in a good position and showing a general improvement year in year out .. so the budget will still be there for NJ to get his two players he wantsLincsaddick said:Worrying. Without investment in GOOD players we could well be relegated. In L1 given our bloated squad, expensive academy, overlarge 'backroom' staff, and having to lease our premises, our value would be well below £15 Million, let alone the £40-45 Million being touted as a selling price.
I doubt that owners keen to sell will invest what's needed to mantain our Championship status.
Nathan Jones, his players and coaching staff will have a big job in trying to ignore any negative chit chat and to concentrate on playing football1 -
These Americans owners don't have Charlton in their heart anyway.
Here before you, and long after you're gone.5 -
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Only if it's making money, otherwise they're orf...3G said:These Americans owners don't have Charlton in their heart anyway.
Here before you, and long after you're gone.1 -
everybody getting far too worked up imho. It's the way of modern football. How many league teams are owned by long term supporters of the club? What is the average life of ownership for a championship club?
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Just had a peep on the Spanners forum.
Someone posted this. When it's laid out like this, it is absolutely fucking unbelievable really....
They are with Owners like Watford are with Managers
Belgium owner having them as a Feeder club to 2nd Division Belgium teams, sold the club for £1 (the buyers were robbed) without the Stadium and Training Ground
Range Rover and Expensive Flat freeloading Owners complete with a Fake Sheikh, lasted a few months, robbed the club blind and piled up debt.
American Danish Guitar playing Stoat fucking Medical equipment fraudster, now in the pokey in America
Now some yanks who bought a League One club, sold the 5 year plan, but looking to flip the club at first opportunity now in the Championship
And all since 202025 -
100% .. you don’t waste 50 mill on training ground and Valley if you don’t have to we have a very good agreement that just been extended and we have full control on making changes to either site .. people make to much of this ..TeeC said:Owning a football ground is a waste of capital, especially in an era of higher interest rates. Not owning our ground does have an impact of prestige I guess, but I’m not sure any owner would rather tie up capital in a stadium. Interested to hear others views but I imagine Charlton’s lease agreement, an operation expense, is probably preferable.4 -
Every club is open to sale .. if someone got the money most would sell … we are a very attractive club for someone , but expect the owners want to see out the 5 year plan but know they need investment to match most of these teams in the championship and can’t do it on a budget of 18 millEugenesAxe said:It seems there's never smoke without fire and "looking for additional investment" is just a phased sale, whatever it is it's a case of meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss!
https://youtu.be/UDfAdHBtK_Q?si=b3ARJ1__KKW-zMXR3 -
Next up on Mastermind is Ronnie, specialist subject: stating the obvious.RonnieMoore said:
Every club is open to sale .. if someone got the money most would sell … we are a very attractive club for someone , but expect the owners want to see out the 5 year plan but know they need investment to match most of these teams in the championship and can’t do it on a budget of 18 millEugenesAxe said:It seems there's never smoke without fire and "looking for additional investment" is just a phased sale, whatever it is it's a case of meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss!https://youtu.be/UDfAdHBtK_Q?si=b3ARJ1__KKW-zMXR4 -
I’ve finally caught up with this thread, I’m now heading back to the transfer window nonsense1
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How could she see West Ham as a major property play if they do not own the land or ground?sm said:
She has already said she sees West Ham as a major property play - so please keep her away from the Valley.fenaddick said:Not sure she'd be the answer anyway, didn't do amazingly at Newcastle and would be looking to sell us in 5 years again anyway13 -
I suppose professional football is a business.
However football is also, or principally, a sport.
A club in a locale is these days a community asset and focus.
Maybe the concinnity of it all is better described, as Lyle Taylor might say, as a ‘brand’.
It must in the end all come down to the balance sheet I suppose, which reinforces the ‘being a business’ above other aspects of a football club.
That has been the reality for Bury FC hasn’t it? And yet and yet Bury FC survives. The average attendance at Gigg Lane last season was 3,700.0 -
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A rare voice of reason in this echo chamber of entitled ninnies and no nothing keyboard worriers (irony not missed)Themightyath2 said:I don't think we should overreact just yet.
Like a lot of clubs and businesses, the owners have probably been thinking about their exit strategy from day one.
My company is owned by a private equity firm, and while their end goal is to sell, they also know they need to protect and grow their investment if they're going to achieve the sort of multiple they're looking for.
I'd suggest that staying in the Championship is absolutely vital to them. At the end of the day, they're businesspeople looking to make a healthy return on their investment.
As others have said, they'll almost certainly have contacts in the US who, off the back of the success of the recent World Cup, may well be looking at investing in an English football club. That could actually work in our favour.
For now, though, I think it's best to wait and see.
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Can only really think of Brighton , Brentford and Boro. The days of the local boy done good that grew up on the terraces and then owning the club one day are gone.bobmunro said:3G said:These Americans owners don't have Charlton in their heart anyway.
Here before you, and long after you're gone.You are, of course, correct.But how many successful clubs have owners who are die hard fans? Very, very few I would suggest.1 -
TheHerminator said:
There are a number of examples that prove you to be wrong here though aren't there?Chris_from_Sidcup said:Always baffles me that people (or investors) buy football clubs with the intention to make money.
Unless you take an underperforming Championship team or a league one team to the Premier league and keep them there for 2-3 years then you are not ever making money. And even then the profit is surely negligible as you will have likely lost a lot of money to get to the PL, and then spent most of your tv money on players/wages to keep you there.
A good recent example is Marinakis at Forest. He bought them for 50m, has lost a reported 250m, but they're supposedly worth over 500m now. But Forest are a rarity and even then they almost ended up back in the Championship last season which would've killed the valuation.
Steve Gibson (i know he's a fan and not an investor) has spent close to 400m of his own money on Middlesbrough and they've spent 16 of the last 17 years in the Championship.
Albeit on a different scale admittedly, the owners of liverpool bought the club for circa £300m, and the club is valued in the billions now. At this point we'll ignore the spending between purchase and now - £400M+ last summer alone. "Valued at"? or priced at by their yank owners?
Making money in football can be done, just very difficult and rare
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jose said:I suppose professional football is a business.
However football is also, or principally, a sport.
A club in a locale is these days a community asset and focus.
Maybe the concinnity of it all is better described, as Lyle Taylor might say, as a ‘brand’.
It must in the end all come down to the balance sheet I suppose, which reinforces the ‘being a business’ above other aspects of a football club.
That has been the reality for Bury FC hasn’t it? And yet and yet Bury FC survives. The average attendance at Gigg Lane last season was 3,700.
No way Jose did I believe I would see the word concinnity on Charlton Life.
I have heard the word used in the art and literary world but "the skilful and harmonious arrangement or fitting together of the different parts of something" I didn't expect to crop up on here.
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I think it’s swings and roundabouts and different wealthy individuals would have different preferences here. You can get 5% investing in government bonds, let alone what you’d get for taking a similar amount of risk of investing in football club assets. In that context putting tens of millions into stadium and training ground is an expensive decision.Airman Brown said:
It’s really not. We still have a short lease in commercial terms. It means you can’t make any major long-term investment in facilities and you run the risk, if you establish the club in the Premier League, of being held to ransom. It’s fine if you’d be happy sharing Selhurst Park.TeeC said:Owning a football ground is a waste of capital, especially in an era of higher interest rates. Not owning our ground does have an impact of prestige I guess, but I’m not sure any owner would rather tie up capital in a stadium. Interested to hear others views but I imagine Charlton’s lease agreement, an operation expense, is probably preferable.The lease is long enough and major long-term investment in facilities is unlikely to be required in the next 5-10 years. And our preferences re sharing at Selhurst Park are not a relevant variable in this calculation - it’s not our decision as to whether an investor decides to invest.1 -
I think people make one fundamental flaw regarding billionaires, and that is assuming that they think like us normal proles. For them, money is definitely an object, it’s the object they crave and hoard.SouthLincsAddick said:
Possibly because the owners that aren’t billionaires are struggling to fund the losses. Why don’t the billionaires increase their funding, possibly because the multi owner structure doesn’t allow them to, the billionaires might not be the ones really into football and don’t want to increase their ownership percentage. Who knows what the motivation is for owning a football club. Unless I was a billionaire, where money was no object I would go nowhere near owning a club.blackpool72 said:Two of our owners are Billionaires.
If the cost of running Charlton is approximately 15 million per year then that is little more than loose change to them.
So I have no idea why they are so keen to bring in extra investments.
Carter is little more than their mouthpiece and he will come out with whatever he is told too.
I seriously have no idea what our owners are playing at , but I no longer believe they want to be here in the long run no matter what Carter will probably come out with today.
Give any of us a billion and we would just consider it extreme wealth that enables us to have fun and do what we want.
Billionaires themselves act like we do as non billionaires. They look after it and look to increase it.
Why? Remember that you have to be an immoral and greedy bastard to be a billionaire in the first place.
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I just had to google if it was a real word, as I spent five minutes trying to work out what word he meant to type !!soapboxsam said:jose said:I suppose professional football is a business.
However football is also, or principally, a sport.
A club in a locale is these days a community asset and focus.
Maybe the concinnity of it all is better described, as Lyle Taylor might say, as a ‘brand’.
It must in the end all come down to the balance sheet I suppose, which reinforces the ‘being a business’ above other aspects of a football club.
That has been the reality for Bury FC hasn’t it? And yet and yet Bury FC survives. The average attendance at Gigg Lane last season was 3,700.
No way Jose did I believe I would see the word concinnity on Charlton Life.
I have heard the word used in the art and literary world but "the skilful and harmonious arrangement or fitting together of the different parts of something" I didn't expect to crop up on here.
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MarcusH26 said:
Can only really think of Brighton , Brentford and Boro. The days of the local boy done good that grew up on the terraces and then owning the club one day are gone.bobmunro said:3G said:These Americans owners don't have Charlton in their heart anyway.
Here before you, and long after you're gone.You are, of course, correct.But how many successful clubs have owners who are die hard fans? Very, very few I would suggest.
I would add Stoke!1 -
Putting tens of millions into the stadium and training ground is exactly what you’d need to do if you built a new stadium. I am not saying that paying Duchatelet’s inflated price is the right thing either - simply that the club would be better off owning its ground (or with a very long, say 99-year, lease). Otherwise the club is always at risk and the case for any investment undermined.TeeC said:
I think it’s swings and roundabouts and different wealthy individuals would have different preferences here. You can get 5% investing in government bonds, let alone what you’d get for taking a similar amount of risk of investing in football club assets. In that context putting tens of millions into stadium and training ground is an expensive decision.Airman Brown said:
It’s really not. We still have a short lease in commercial terms. It means you can’t make any major long-term investment in facilities and you run the risk, if you establish the club in the Premier League, of being held to ransom. It’s fine if you’d be happy sharing Selhurst Park.TeeC said:Owning a football ground is a waste of capital, especially in an era of higher interest rates. Not owning our ground does have an impact of prestige I guess, but I’m not sure any owner would rather tie up capital in a stadium. Interested to hear others views but I imagine Charlton’s lease agreement, an operation expense, is probably preferable.The lease is long enough and major long-term investment in facilities is unlikely to be required in the next 5-10 years. And our preferences re sharing at Selhurst Park are not a relevant variable in this calculation - it’s not our decision as to whether an investor decides to invest.We do have agency regarding ground sharing and many exercised it and would again.5
