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Sheffield United in trouble
Comments
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As much as I dislike said club. It would be tragic.sam3110 said:
You said big club, how about a slightly below average sized club with a shitey little ground in the northern reaches of Croydon with no identity, that claims to be the oldest club in the world? Won't be that tragic...ShootersHillGuru said:
I’ve been saying as much for years. The money in football is insane. The Premier League has sucked so much money out of the game and by doing so has virtually killed off The Championship, League One and Two as viable business models. There needs to be a reset but it’s not impacting the Premier League as much as further down the pyramid.Sooner or later a “big” club is going to go pop and it’s tragic. As good as The Prem is to watch, it’s a bloated parasite on English football.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?0 -
“The EFL notes the High Court’s decision to issue a winding up order on COH Sports Bidco Limited. The League will consider the implications of that development in line with its Regulations, including whether any further action is required.
In addition, the EFL continues to consider other regulatory matters following changes to the Club’s ownership structure and developments within the wider group. As these issues remain ongoing, the EFL will make no further comment at this stage.”
But as I understand it, the company being liquidated transferred the shares in SUFC to another company, 1919 Partners LLC in June. It is no co-incidence that the owners of this Delaware company are the same as the owners of the company wound up. And you can, of course, speculate as to how much the new co paid the old co for the shares....
Meanwhile I doubt the old co will bother responding to the winder, let alone defend it.
Now the thing is if the transfer of ownership of SUFC to another company owned by the same people was merely a tax efficiency measure, there's not much for the EFL to look at. If, however it should be shown to be a devious method used to avoid the payment of monies owed to the previous owner, well, it is difficult to see how a 12-point deduction can be avoided unless overdue monies are paid out.
The EFL must surely take a very dim view of the concept of setting up a series of companies in order to avoid paying what was promised for the initial sale. Otherwise, no football club in the country is worth a single penny.
And then there is the question of the "fit and proper" test or whatever it is called now.
Add into the mix the Independent Football Regulator. This could be their first high profile large and complex case. The ultimate sanction they can impose would be a suspension or revocation of the Club's operating licence.
I feel sorry for the fans.2 -
I voted for Roussillon.carly burn said:Will 'points deduction' be our player of the season for a second time in a row??
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The EFL should get this sorted at a guess by 2029.cafcfan said:“The EFL notes the High Court’s decision to issue a winding up order on COH Sports Bidco Limited. The League will consider the implications of that development in line with its Regulations, including whether any further action is required.In addition, the EFL continues to consider other regulatory matters following changes to the Club’s ownership structure and developments within the wider group. As these issues remain ongoing, the EFL will make no further comment at this stage.”
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I’ve nothing against Sheffield United , in fact compared to their scummy neighbours they are ok but we could do with all the help we can get so I’m kind of hoping it happens sharpish.1
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I've added more to my contribution now, because it's not just the EFL any more, it's the IFR too.ShootersHillGuru said:
The EFL should get this sorted at a guess by 2029.cafcfan said:“The EFL notes the High Court’s decision to issue a winding up order on COH Sports Bidco Limited. The League will consider the implications of that development in line with its Regulations, including whether any further action is required.In addition, the EFL continues to consider other regulatory matters following changes to the Club’s ownership structure and developments within the wider group. As these issues remain ongoing, the EFL will make no further comment at this stage.”
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The newly appointed executive in charge of overseeing this has come straight from a previous high level position.PrincessFiona said:
Yes, what it COULD mean (and when) is not categorically clear - and the authorites aren't fair and objective in how clubs are dealt withbobmunro said:PrincessFiona said:
what does that mean in terms of any points deduction?cafcfan said:https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-united/sheffield-united-owners-coh-sports-prince-abdullah-8929678
This seems to confirm that the petition has been granted - 10 second hearing.As clear as the nose on my elbow!
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We wouldn't have gone down if no teams got points deductions last seasoncarly burn said:Will 'points deduction' be our player of the season for a second time in a row??
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We should be careful what we wish for. We never got a points deduction when reformed as Charlton Athletic 1984 Ltd and i suspect a retrospective action could be incoming if certain other clubs and the EFL ever wake up to that.Pelling1993 said:
We wouldn't have gone down if no teams got points deductions last seasoncarly burn said:Will 'points deduction' be our player of the season for a second time in a row??
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That’s over 40 years ago ! Good luck with that 😂swords_alive said:
We should be careful what we wish for. We never got a points deduction when reformed as Charlton Athletic 1984 Ltd and i suspect a retrospective action could be incoming if certain other clubs and the EFL ever wake up to that.Pelling1993 said:
We wouldn't have gone down if no teams got points deductions last seasoncarly burn said:Will 'points deduction' be our player of the season for a second time in a row??
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ShootersHillGuru said:
As much as I dislike said club. It would be tragic.sam3110 said:
You said big club, how about a slightly below average sized club with a shitey little ground in the northern reaches of Croydon with no identity, that claims to be the oldest club in the world? Won't be that tragic...ShootersHillGuru said:
I’ve been saying as much for years. The money in football is insane. The Premier League has sucked so much money out of the game and by doing so has virtually killed off The Championship, League One and Two as viable business models. There needs to be a reset but it’s not impacting the Premier League as much as further down the pyramid.Sooner or later a “big” club is going to go pop and it’s tragic. As good as The Prem is to watch, it’s a bloated parasite on English football.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?
F*** 'em!
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Any club who goes into admin should automatically be relegated that season … 12 points deduction now they can still get that back over 45 games .. no punishment4
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Whole thing is really murky. This BBC article has helped me get my head around it though. he bit that really stands out as dodgy is transferring the shares from one company to another and not telling the IFR or EFL
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4g618x1z80o5 -
I know I shouldn't bite but Sheff Utd are not in administration (or liquidation): instead their ex-parent company has been wound up. So things (unlike people) are not that simple.RonnieMoore said:Any club who goes into admin should automatically be relegated that season … 12 points deduction now they can still get that back over 45 games .. no punishment1 -
I wouldn't even pause for a nano second to rue it.ShootersHillGuru said:
As much as I dislike said club. It would be tragic.sam3110 said:
You said big club, how about a slightly below average sized club with a shitey little ground in the northern reaches of Croydon with no identity, that claims to be the oldest club in the world? Won't be that tragic...ShootersHillGuru said:
I’ve been saying as much for years. The money in football is insane. The Premier League has sucked so much money out of the game and by doing so has virtually killed off The Championship, League One and Two as viable business models. There needs to be a reset but it’s not impacting the Premier League as much as further down the pyramid.Sooner or later a “big” club is going to go pop and it’s tragic. As good as The Prem is to watch, it’s a bloated parasite on English football.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?2 -
I think this is just the start. The current owners seem to be restructuring the ownership but they haven’t notified the EFL or the IFR, they’ve added a director who hasn’t been through the owners/director’s tests (again no notification to the EFL) and they haven’t paid a £35m instalment on the purchase of the Club. I suspect this winding up will allow the previous owner to now take the same action on the “new” owner company and the EFL don’t look kindly on unpaid football debts either.cafcfan said:
I know I shouldn't bite but Sheff Utd are not in administration (or liquidation): instead their ex-parent company has been wound up. So things (unlike people) are not that simple.RonnieMoore said:Any club who goes into admin should automatically be relegated that season … 12 points deduction now they can still get that back over 45 games .. no punishment9 -
I agree but can’t see it coming in now. Probably needed to happen 30 or 40 years ago - just too much money in the game now.SDAddick said:What a mess. 50+1 fan ownership is the only way forward. Otherwise it's just billionaires owing billionaires millions of dollars. Or supposed billionaires. Or supposed millionaires. etc. and so on.There was an interesting snippet on the “The Rest is Entertainment” podcast this week. Richard Osman talking about why there’s been a surge in Billionaires investing in sport teams/franchises. Concept was it’s being seen as something of a future proof investment - the number of teams is basically capped, it’s AI proof because you will always need humans playing as the end product, a lot of them also have interests in media companies that can also make money from broadcast rights so there’s an opportunity to double dip and the business model can be somewhat cyclical.
Make of it what you will, but it didn’t make it sound like the billionaire owners are going away - quite the opposite.
We might be stuck waiting for the revolution, and a few billionaires to be burned/eaten, before we get our game back.4 -
Sean will sort it out.
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I am sure that Wendies are looking out for fair play here! Apparently the new owners are billionaires (heard that one somewhere before?) 35 million is chicken feed so surely they will not allow administration to happen. Might be a shareholser dispute within the consortium and someone is refusing to pay up until it is resolved?PrincessFiona said:
Yes, what it COULD mean (and when) is not categorically clear - and the authorites aren't fair and objective in how clubs are dealt withbobmunro said:PrincessFiona said:
what does that mean in terms of any points deduction?cafcfan said:https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-united/sheffield-united-owners-coh-sports-prince-abdullah-8929678
This seems to confirm that the petition has been granted - 10 second hearing.As clear as the nose on my elbow!0 -
That can be arranged...Exiled_Addick said:
I agree but can’t see it coming in now. Probably needed to happen 30 or 40 years ago - just too much money in the game now.SDAddick said:What a mess. 50+1 fan ownership is the only way forward. Otherwise it's just billionaires owing billionaires millions of dollars. Or supposed billionaires. Or supposed millionaires. etc. and so on.There was an interesting snippet on the “The Rest is Entertainment” podcast this week. Richard Osman talking about why there’s been a surge in Billionaires investing in sport teams/franchises. Concept was it’s being seen as something of a future proof investment - the number of teams is basically capped, it’s AI proof because you will always need humans playing as the end product, a lot of them also have interests in media companies that can also make money from broadcast rights so there’s an opportunity to double dip and the business model can be somewhat cyclical.
Make of it what you will, but it didn’t make it sound like the billionaire owners are going away - quite the opposite.
We might be stuck waiting for the revolution, and a few billionaires to be burned/eaten, before we get our game back.
I don't have a good solution on how to go about implementing a 50+1, and I'm not even from the UK, let alone a legal expert. I figure it would require something along the lines of treating football clubs like a public good, maybe similar to how a utility is done here, whereby you make the public (e.g. supporters) an investor and make it so that that group of investors must own 50+1 of a company. That would, I imagine, require a level of regulation if not downright nationalization that I don't think any party in the UK has an appetite for.
The problem would then be, do you end up hindering wages to workers (e.g. the footballers themselves)? Which I think would be harsh, given how short their careers are and how elite they are at their sport. I don't have a particularly good answer to this either.
I have a problem. I have a solution. I do not know enough on how to get from said problem to said solution, though if anyone has any thoughts or any examples of how this could be/has been done, would love to hear it.0 -
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We think, hope and have seen in practice that GFP are decent football club owners. Nevertheless they are registered in the Cayman Islands.1
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Everyone knows classy global criminals work through Bermuda. Cayman is for your common sleaze.11
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Fully agree, but I feel like I've been saying this for most of my life now. So far, the footballing Ponzi has just been getting bigger and bigger, but sooner or later we'll reach the point when being a billionaire isn't enough and even the biggest consortia can't afford the costs. At that point the game finances will have to shrink or the whole thing will go pop leaving loads of clubs up the creek. I just hope Charlton are in a good shape when push comes to shove.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?4 -
But financial restrictions are stopping Saudi Arabia spending money like a drunken sailor at Newcastle.Stig said:
Fully agree, but I feel like I've been saying this for most of my life now. So far, the footballing Ponzi has just been getting bigger and bigger, but sooner or later we'll reach the point when being a billionaire isn't enough and even the biggest consortia can't afford the costs. At that point the game finances will have to shrink or the whole thing will go pop leaving loads of clubs up the creek. I just hope Charlton are in a good shape when push comes to shove.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?
Possibly not the best analogy to use. 🤔1 -
It isn’t clubs like the ones owned by Nation States that are the issue though as we are not competing against them. If you look at the fees and wages being paid by Championship clubs it is ridiculous. These are the clubs that will fall away eventually. We apparently are one of the lowest ranking clubs in wages yet we have player supposedly on £15-£20k a week ! That is not sustainable however you look at it.CaptainRobbo said:
But financial restrictions are stopping Saudi Arabia spending money like a drunken sailor at Newcastle.Stig said:
Fully agree, but I feel like I've been saying this for most of my life now. So far, the footballing Ponzi has just been getting bigger and bigger, but sooner or later we'll reach the point when being a billionaire isn't enough and even the biggest consortia can't afford the costs. At that point the game finances will have to shrink or the whole thing will go pop leaving loads of clubs up the creek. I just hope Charlton are in a good shape when push comes to shove.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?
Possibly not the best analogy to use. 🤔3 -
I get that.AndyG said:
It isn’t clubs like the ones owned by Nation States that are the issue though as we are not competing against them. If you look at the fees and wages being paid by Championship clubs it is ridiculous. These are the clubs that will fall away eventually. We apparently are one of the lowest ranking clubs in wages yet we have player supposedly on £15-£20k a week ! That is not sustainable however you look at it.CaptainRobbo said:
But financial restrictions are stopping Saudi Arabia spending money like a drunken sailor at Newcastle.Stig said:
Fully agree, but I feel like I've been saying this for most of my life now. So far, the footballing Ponzi has just been getting bigger and bigger, but sooner or later we'll reach the point when being a billionaire isn't enough and even the biggest consortia can't afford the costs. At that point the game finances will have to shrink or the whole thing will go pop leaving loads of clubs up the creek. I just hope Charlton are in a good shape when push comes to shove.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?
Possibly not the best analogy to use. 🤔
Just meant that even if you are richer than Jeff Bezos, you can't just go hell for leather when spending always.0 -
Yup take you point mate and it’s very valid but any business ( football clubs are a business like any other) that is allowed to trade on the basis that they can lose £m’s over a 3 year period allows them to take a punt on the promised land but if it doesn’t happen the bang happensCaptainRobbo said:
I get that.AndyG said:
It isn’t clubs like the ones owned by Nation States that are the issue though as we are not competing against them. If you look at the fees and wages being paid by Championship clubs it is ridiculous. These are the clubs that will fall away eventually. We apparently are one of the lowest ranking clubs in wages yet we have player supposedly on £15-£20k a week ! That is not sustainable however you look at it.CaptainRobbo said:
But financial restrictions are stopping Saudi Arabia spending money like a drunken sailor at Newcastle.Stig said:
Fully agree, but I feel like I've been saying this for most of my life now. So far, the footballing Ponzi has just been getting bigger and bigger, but sooner or later we'll reach the point when being a billionaire isn't enough and even the biggest consortia can't afford the costs. At that point the game finances will have to shrink or the whole thing will go pop leaving loads of clubs up the creek. I just hope Charlton are in a good shape when push comes to shove.AndyG said:
It is obvious that football will have to have a massive reset at some point. The money needed to operate is just not sustainable. Alot of clubs will fall by the wayside I'm sure, hopefully ours wont be one of themNorth Lower Neil said:
It's going to get a bit daft if you have several clubs docked points every year like last season.sillav nitram said:It was said on ask the experts with, Rich Cawley, Henry Winter and Ben Ransom, that the level of spending in the Championship/Football couldn’t last and eventually it’ll implode. Maybe this is the start?
Possibly not the best analogy to use. 🤔
Just meant that even if you are richer than Jeff Bezos, you can't just go hell for leather when spending always.1 -
I don't have solutions either however the wages paid to players are the biggest issue and without solving that, we will continue to see clubs come close to the wire.SDAddick said:
That can be arranged...Exiled_Addick said:
I agree but can’t see it coming in now. Probably needed to happen 30 or 40 years ago - just too much money in the game now.SDAddick said:What a mess. 50+1 fan ownership is the only way forward. Otherwise it's just billionaires owing billionaires millions of dollars. Or supposed billionaires. Or supposed millionaires. etc. and so on.There was an interesting snippet on the “The Rest is Entertainment” podcast this week. Richard Osman talking about why there’s been a surge in Billionaires investing in sport teams/franchises. Concept was it’s being seen as something of a future proof investment - the number of teams is basically capped, it’s AI proof because you will always need humans playing as the end product, a lot of them also have interests in media companies that can also make money from broadcast rights so there’s an opportunity to double dip and the business model can be somewhat cyclical.
Make of it what you will, but it didn’t make it sound like the billionaire owners are going away - quite the opposite.
We might be stuck waiting for the revolution, and a few billionaires to be burned/eaten, before we get our game back.
I don't have a good solution on how to go about implementing a 50+1, and I'm not even from the UK, let alone a legal expert. I figure it would require something along the lines of treating football clubs like a public good, maybe similar to how a utility is done here, whereby you make the public (e.g. supporters) an investor and make it so that that group of investors must own 50+1 of a company. That would, I imagine, require a level of regulation if not downright nationalization that I don't think any party in the UK has an appetite for.
The problem would then be, do you end up hindering wages to workers (e.g. the footballers themselves)? Which I think would be harsh, given how short their careers are and how elite they are at their sport. I don't have a particularly good answer to this either.
I have a problem. I have a solution. I do not know enough on how to get from said problem to said solution, though if anyone has any thoughts or any examples of how this could be/has been done, would love to hear it.
You hear about many clubs from the premier league down to football league who are paying out more in wages than they turnover. That is an absolute recipe for disaster and in any other business would simply never happen. Football clubs are big operations and of course some of those wages are paid out to staff but the vast majority of those wages will be on players. Cooks, kitmen, receptionists, cleaners, stewards etc will all be on very basic wages
I don't blame players as naturally nobody is going to turn down good money, and I also agree that the career of a footballer is relatively short which means they should have opportunity to earn enough to ensure they are comfortable. However, I think most would agree that footballers earn far to much money and the figures for some are absolutely eye watering. Of course they should be remunerated well for their talents but the fact there are academy kids earning 50k a week is ludicrous. As is the 100k, 200k, 300k a week you hear a lot of players earning now.
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This bollox about a footballers career being relatively short so they should be paid more needs to stop. Relatively nobody has a job for life these days and even those that do manage to stay in the same ‘industry’ for a long time have to actually constantly switch and evolve into something that is probably light years away from what they did when they were younger.Notts_Addick said:
I don't have solutions either however the wages paid to players are the biggest issue and without solving that, we will continue to see clubs come close to the wire.SDAddick said:
That can be arranged...Exiled_Addick said:
I agree but can’t see it coming in now. Probably needed to happen 30 or 40 years ago - just too much money in the game now.SDAddick said:What a mess. 50+1 fan ownership is the only way forward. Otherwise it's just billionaires owing billionaires millions of dollars. Or supposed billionaires. Or supposed millionaires. etc. and so on.There was an interesting snippet on the “The Rest is Entertainment” podcast this week. Richard Osman talking about why there’s been a surge in Billionaires investing in sport teams/franchises. Concept was it’s being seen as something of a future proof investment - the number of teams is basically capped, it’s AI proof because you will always need humans playing as the end product, a lot of them also have interests in media companies that can also make money from broadcast rights so there’s an opportunity to double dip and the business model can be somewhat cyclical.
Make of it what you will, but it didn’t make it sound like the billionaire owners are going away - quite the opposite.
We might be stuck waiting for the revolution, and a few billionaires to be burned/eaten, before we get our game back.
I don't have a good solution on how to go about implementing a 50+1, and I'm not even from the UK, let alone a legal expert. I figure it would require something along the lines of treating football clubs like a public good, maybe similar to how a utility is done here, whereby you make the public (e.g. supporters) an investor and make it so that that group of investors must own 50+1 of a company. That would, I imagine, require a level of regulation if not downright nationalization that I don't think any party in the UK has an appetite for.
The problem would then be, do you end up hindering wages to workers (e.g. the footballers themselves)? Which I think would be harsh, given how short their careers are and how elite they are at their sport. I don't have a particularly good answer to this either.
I have a problem. I have a solution. I do not know enough on how to get from said problem to said solution, though if anyone has any thoughts or any examples of how this could be/has been done, would love to hear it.
You hear about many clubs from the premier league down to football league who are paying out more in wages than they turnover. That is an absolute recipe for disaster and in any other business would simply never happen. Football clubs are big operations and of course some of those wages are paid out to staff but the vast majority of those wages will be on players. Cooks, kitmen, receptionists, cleaners, stewards etc will all be on very basic wages
I don't blame players as naturally nobody is going to turn down good money, and I also agree that the career of a footballer is relatively short which means they should have opportunity to earn enough to ensure they are comfortable. However, I think most would agree that footballers earn far too much money and the figures for some are absolutely eye watering. Of course they should be remunerated well for their talents but the fact there are academy kids earning 50k a week is ludicrous. As is the 100k, 200k, 300k a week you hear a lot of players earning now.6 -
So, wots it mean?
Are they gonna have points deduction or not ??0
