Elderly neighbour rip-off causing small dilemma
Overheard a conversation yesterday between the my dad's elderly neighbour and a 'trades-person' taking place in the neighbour's back garden. He's clearly been ripped off.
He has overgrown bramble, front and back, small gardens, probably 20 m sq at the back, and about 6 sq in the front. I'm expecting to hear a figure of a few hundred- 2 days work for 2 guys, so £600, maybe add in some overheads, so maybe absolute max £800 to £1000. And this is Somerset so Somerset pricing. I hear some deliberating, then a figure of £2000, some agreement, then i hear "tell you what Pete, i'll do the front as well, call it £3,000". Agreed, see you tomorrow at 9am to do the front, and the back to be done in a week or two owing to diary. I went into the garden and caught the tradesman's eye at that point as he went back inside, looking shifty. Big guy, btw, not someone i'd want to front up to directly.
My dad, more elderly and more infirmed, has been caught by these types before. Cold called for a quick bit of roofing, £200, suddenly re-quoted to £2000, probably when they realised his state of mind. I wasn't here at the time, and yelled at him on the phone on that occasion and he got their vehicle reg, no money was given over and we never heard from them again.
But i don't think this was a cold call on Pete the neighbour. This trader was in a 74 plate merc yesterday. So maybe Pete knows him by word of mouth or was recommended.
My dilemma - not so much the nosey neighbour situation, but that is a factor, but where do i take this? I texted Pete straightaway and said get yourself some quotes. No clue if he got the text so later i tried calling his mobile,but it went straight to voicemail. It was then dark and i wanted to watch the game v QPR so i put a note through his door, basically saying 'look out, my Dad has been quoted before for jobs in the 000 that are only worth a few hundred, hence why i texted you earlier'. I've decided to leave it there with Pete. He's got himself in a situation he's probably embarrassed about, and possibly feels he has to see it through now.
Now this tradesman returned this morning at 9, with a younger guy, in a van with full livery and company name and contact details on side. They were done at 10.45, loaded and driven off. i have a picture of the van for what it's worth.
My Dad doesn't get on with Pete. They used to but Dad is self-destructive and curses Pete nowdays, jealous of his relatively good health, but he lives alone, and his place is a state. I helped Pete get up after a fall in the bramble of his back garden just a few weeks ago. He makes it out to the pub everyday, drives there and back. But i don't have a rapport with him, and only visit here. On the surface of it Pete is looking after himself, but actually i'm 90% sure he's fallen victim to a scammer posing as a local trader.
There's a small window of opportunity now since the firm won't be back for a week or two to do the back garden. If i bump in to Pete i'll say something to him as a follow up- like is your phone working and did you get my text. Take the hit if he's going to think i'm being a nosey so and so. Beyond that, i know the police or trading standards will say no crime has been committed. What angers me is this trader is likely to get away with this and i am feeling relatively powerless.
Happy for ideas, or someone to tell me i have the numbers wrong and this type of work does indeed cost a lot more than i expected.
I know the neighbours opposite know Pete and look out for him. I also have some family contact numbers for him with spare keys my dad holds here, but i don't want to involve others and would rather speak direct to Pete first ideally. I might contact the local police liaison as it is a known problem in this area. Am i missing something?
Thanks for reading.
Comments
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I had a garden tidy up in July in a small house I let out in Cambridgeshire, similar size to the back garden you mentioned. It was £621, so your estimates seem reasonable to me.1
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Thanks Arthur. Also occurs to me that he actually has gravel down under the bramble, front and back, so it was designed to be low maintenance before the bramble got a grip! Easy job i suspect for any able bodied person, and today's rapid clearance at the front was a very easy £1000 for crooks.
Now it comes into view that maybe I offer to help clear the back with help from another neighbour or two.2 -
The bit in bold isn't right. There's problems with resources, evidence, witness cooperation, etc. but don't assume that it'll go nowhere and the worst that'll happen is you've provided some useful intel to the appropriate authorities.swords_alive said:Overheard a conversation yesterday between the my dad's elderly neighbour and a 'trades-person' taking place in the neighbour's back garden. He's clearly been ripped off.
He has overgrown bramble, front and back, small gardens, probably 20 m sq at the back, and about 6 sq in the front. I'm expecting to hear a figure of a few hundred- 2 days work for 2 guys, so £600, maybe add in some overheads, so maybe absolute max £800 to £1000. And this is Somerset so Somerset pricing. I hear some deliberating, then a figure of £2000, some agreement, then i hear "tell you what Pete, i'll do the front as well, call it £3,000". Agreed, see you tomorrow at 9am to do the front, and the back to be done in a week or two owing to diary. I went into the garden and caught the tradesman's eye at that point as he went back inside, looking shifty. Big guy, btw, not someone i'd want to front up to directly.
My dad, more elderly and more infirmed, has been caught by these types before. Cold called for a quick bit of roofing, £200, suddenly re-quoted to £2000, probably when they realised his state of mind. I wasn't here at the time, and yelled at him on the phone on that occasion and he got their vehicle reg, no money was given over and we never heard from them again.
But i don't think this was a cold call on Pete the neighbour. This trader was in a 74 plate merc yesterday. So maybe Pete knows him by word of mouth or was recommended.
My dilemma - not so much the nosey neighbour situation, but that is a factor, but where do i take this? I texted Pete straightaway and said get yourself some quotes. No clue if he got the text so later i tried calling his mobile,but it went straight to voicemail. It was then dark and i wanted to watch the game v QPR so i put a note through his door, basically saying 'look out, my Dad has been quoted before for jobs in the 000 that are only worth a few hundred, hence why i texted you earlier'. I've decided to leave it there with Pete. He's got himself in a situation he's probably embarrassed about, and possibly feels he has to see it through now.
Now this tradesman returned this morning at 9, with a younger guy, in a van with full livery and company name and contact details on side. They were done at 10.45, loaded and driven off. i have a picture of the van for what it's worth.
My Dad doesn't get on with Pete. They used to but Dad is self-destructive and curses Pete nowdays, jealous of his relatively good health, but he lives alone, and his place is a state. I helped Pete get up after a fall in the bramble of his back garden just a few weeks ago. He makes it out to the pub everyday, drives there and back. But i don't have a rapport with him, and only visit here. On the surface of it Pete is looking after himself, but actually i'm 90% sure he's fallen victim to a scammer posing as a local trader.
There's a small window of opportunity now since the firm won't be back for a week or two to do the back garden. If i bump in to Pete i'll say something to him as a follow up- like is your phone working and did you get my text. Take the hit if he's going to think i'm being a nosey so and so. Beyond that, i know the police or trading standards will say no crime has been committed. What angers me is this trader is likely to get away with this and i am feeling relatively powerless.
Happy for ideas, or someone to tell me i have the numbers wrong and this type of work does indeed cost a lot more than i expected.
I know the neighbours opposite know Pete and look out for him. I also have some family contact numbers for him with spare keys my dad holds here, but i don't want to involve others and would rather speak direct to Pete first ideally. I might contact the local police liaison as it is a known problem in this area. Am i missing something?
Thanks for reading.
You've two choices practically, Report Fraud (pretty useless for this sort of offending) or, much better https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/report-to-trading-standards/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=24211243081&gbraid=0AAAAA-Td8Vui6pW99vpTL4lse496h9DTN&gclid=CjwKCAjwqonVBhA4EiwA9wYJ3aZvT9LrEiGGwOHBGU7F9L4SZSD9pmB7GkYdQB7D3VWr1_yk4bYaRBoC_xcQAvD_BwE
You can remain anonymous should you prefer.
Good luck.4 -
To be a bit blunt. Don't get involved.swords_alive said:Overheard a conversation yesterday between the my dad's elderly neighbour and a 'trades-person' taking place in the neighbour's back garden. He's clearly been ripped off.
He has overgrown bramble, front and back, small gardens, probably 20 m sq at the back, and about 6 sq in the front. I'm expecting to hear a figure of a few hundred- 2 days work for 2 guys, so £600, maybe add in some overheads, so maybe absolute max £800 to £1000. And this is Somerset so Somerset pricing. I hear some deliberating, then a figure of £2000, some agreement, then i hear "tell you what Pete, i'll do the front as well, call it £3,000". Agreed, see you tomorrow at 9am to do the front, and the back to be done in a week or two owing to diary. I went into the garden and caught the tradesman's eye at that point as he went back inside, looking shifty. Big guy, btw, not someone i'd want to front up to directly.
My dad, more elderly and more infirmed, has been caught by these types before. Cold called for a quick bit of roofing, £200, suddenly re-quoted to £2000, probably when they realised his state of mind. I wasn't here at the time, and yelled at him on the phone on that occasion and he got their vehicle reg, no money was given over and we never heard from them again.
But i don't think this was a cold call on Pete the neighbour. This trader was in a 74 plate merc yesterday. So maybe Pete knows him by word of mouth or was recommended.
My dilemma - not so much the nosey neighbour situation, but that is a factor, but where do i take this? I texted Pete straightaway and said get yourself some quotes. No clue if he got the text so later i tried calling his mobile,but it went straight to voicemail. It was then dark and i wanted to watch the game v QPR so i put a note through his door, basically saying 'look out, my Dad has been quoted before for jobs in the 000 that are only worth a few hundred, hence why i texted you earlier'. I've decided to leave it there with Pete. He's got himself in a situation he's probably embarrassed about, and possibly feels he has to see it through now.
Now this tradesman returned this morning at 9, with a younger guy, in a van with full livery and company name and contact details on side. They were done at 10.45, loaded and driven off. i have a picture of the van for what it's worth.
My Dad doesn't get on with Pete. They used to but Dad is self-destructive and curses Pete nowdays, jealous of his relatively good health, but he lives alone, and his place is a state. I helped Pete get up after a fall in the bramble of his back garden just a few weeks ago. He makes it out to the pub everyday, drives there and back. But i don't have a rapport with him, and only visit here. On the surface of it Pete is looking after himself, but actually i'm 90% sure he's fallen victim to a scammer posing as a local trader.
There's a small window of opportunity now since the firm won't be back for a week or two to do the back garden. If i bump in to Pete i'll say something to him as a follow up- like is your phone working and did you get my text. Take the hit if he's going to think i'm being a nosey so and so. Beyond that, i know the police or trading standards will say no crime has been committed. What angers me is this trader is likely to get away with this and i am feeling relatively powerless.
Happy for ideas, or someone to tell me i have the numbers wrong and this type of work does indeed cost a lot more than i expected.
I know the neighbours opposite know Pete and look out for him. I also have some family contact numbers for him with spare keys my dad holds here, but i don't want to involve others and would rather speak direct to Pete first ideally. I might contact the local police liaison as it is a known problem in this area. Am i missing something?
Thanks for reading.
It's nice of you to be concerned but it's probably too late to do anything about it if Pete has already agreed the work to be done.
He has been conned no doubt but as you said you have no rapport with him and your Dad doesn't get on with him so if i was you i'd tell the neighbours who do look out for him what has happened and don't stress yourself over it.2 -
Yeah, it's tempting not to do a thing more, as i've tried to intervene already to a point, but it would be good not to let this rip off merchant get paid if possible, so i'll possibly offer to clear the back garden and may find out more basic info and Pete's current disposition to it all in the process.
Once my dad disappears to bed, mid-afternoon usually, there's not much else to do here and so i'd probably get away with not telling him.
@Bournemouth Addick, thanks mate. Will definitely submit a report there, assuming the facts don't change.4 -
Firstly, it’s good you are looking out for your neighbour. Secondly, I’d say your guesstimate of £900 to £1,000 is spot on if it’s 2 days work for two people. I have a guy come in once a year to butcher a massive hedge and dispose of it and he’s £30 ph so I’d say the job should be about £900 ish.
It’s hard for you to speak to the neighbour about this as he’d know you were eavesdropping on his conversation. Equally I’d be concerned about him being ripped off too. Maybe he’s had other quotes and they have been equally expensive, who knows. If the contractor is legit and is disposing of the waste properly then it’s costing him to do so although I’ve no idea of the cost involved but even so the amounts you state are excessive.
I don’t know what to suggest as it doesn’t seem you know him that well albeit you do have his phone number. If you knew he’d read the texts then at least you’d know you had warned him and from there it’s up to him. Maybe casually ask him if he’s seen your texts. If he says yes and doesn’t elaborate then that’s the end of the matter and if he says no then just say you suggest that he does and leave it with him. If he wants further help he’ll ask.
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@swords_alive It is great that you are looking out for your dad's neighbour. As Bournemouth Addick suggested report to Trading Standards via Citizens Advice. I used to work in Trading Standards and would visit victims of this type of incident (with the police). It is a criminal offence if the trader hasn't given the neighbour written notice of their right to cancel the contract within 14 days. Things have probably changed but it is worth reporting to Trading Standards as they might prioritise this type of incident.2
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I’m in the wrong trade. 30+ year career and it turns out butchering overgrown bramble is more financially rewarding :-(10
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Is the guy competent to make his own decisions? If so let it go.
If he’s generally not able to make decisions like that and it’s a safeguarding issue talk to Social Services.
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I think there is an inbetween those 2 options. People fall for all sorts of scams all the time, many are definitely competent generally but falling for them doesn't mean it's a safeguarding issue and Social Services - else a lot of us on here would be referred!iainment said:Is the guy competent to make his own decisions? If so let it go.
If he’s generally not able to make decisions like that and it’s a safeguarding issue talk to Social Services.4 -
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Thanks all, I kind of agree with every comment and it's all useful.
There's nothing to lose on my part by at least having a face to face convo with him and ideally I'll cross paths with later today. He's off to the pub soon and I'm going to look over the fence at the back garden just to check it's realistic for me to offer to have a go at myself. Tennis elbow, and disposal of so much bramble could be my issues!
Regarding social services and safeguarding, I won't be going that route yet myself. He's managing his own routines and I would agree he's fallen for an everyday scam here. Having seen the state of his front room the other week I think there's a definite issue related to squalor and hoarding. But I've also had dealings with the team at this council and they are thoroughly incompetent and would busy themselves by getting involved with dramatic intent and right now be no use whatsoever. I think that's the type of conversation I could have with one of the other neighbours to follow up, as I think one or two of them do visit him amd should know what state he is in.
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Mm.. heart sinks.. Suppose i could make a small dent in it over a longer period.. think I'll stick with original idea of suggesting/reiterating that he at least gets a couple more quotes, assuming he's not done so already.
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interesting thread, good on you for looking out for your neighbour - something we should all do.
However, looking at those pics, that's a decent amount to clear there - assuming he wants it totally stripped back - I've had garden clearance people in before and whilst their quoted price might look a bit high I've seen worse1 -
Most gardeners charge £25-£30 an hour. At £3k that is over 4 days work he has been quoted, the fact the front was cleared in very little time he is clearly being scammed.
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It's the kind of story that if you got traction on social media, somebody would offer to do it for free.
Hate to see people being exploited but there is only so much you can do.5 -
Was the front garden brambles too?
If it was the same as the photos of the back garden and they've just weed-whacked it to ground level, then I'd imagine he'll be in a similar situation next year when the brambles grow back and 3k lighter.
Despite the heatwaves this year, brambles and convulvulous/bind weed seemed to have thrived.4 -
Yes, brambles too, over only a small area, on top of gravel, and i think the back garden is the same gravel. Have noticed a lot of bramble around generally. I will have a picture to upload soon of the front, for what it's worth.addix said:Was the front garden brambles too?
If it was the same as the photos of the back garden and they've just weed-whacked it to ground level, then I'd imagine he'll be in a similar situation next year when the brambles grow back and 3k lighter.
Despite the heatwaves this year, brambles and convulvulous/bind weed seemed to have thrived.0 -
The firm aren't charging by the hour, they've given a price.
He needs to get a couple more prices.
I love the way posters on here are saying how much the job should be.
If youve got your own business do you have people telling you what they want to pay?.
I remember me mum a couple of years ago saying gardeners wanted £30 an hour.
Having a laugh I thought.
£240 for 8 hours.
Then you start to think they could be out for 10 hours to get that £240.
Travelling between jobs ,getting rid of the rubbish and having a suitable break.
So that £30 an hour wasn't as bad as first thought.
Anyway who can I complain to about my solicitor charging me and the wife £1000 to do ours wills which only took 2 hours.0 -
Get involved as much as you want. People looking out for each other is a good thing.Baldybonce said:
To be a bit blunt. Don't get involved.swords_alive said:Overheard a conversation yesterday between the my dad's elderly neighbour and a 'trades-person' taking place in the neighbour's back garden. He's clearly been ripped off.
He has overgrown bramble, front and back, small gardens, probably 20 m sq at the back, and about 6 sq in the front. I'm expecting to hear a figure of a few hundred- 2 days work for 2 guys, so £600, maybe add in some overheads, so maybe absolute max £800 to £1000. And this is Somerset so Somerset pricing. I hear some deliberating, then a figure of £2000, some agreement, then i hear "tell you what Pete, i'll do the front as well, call it £3,000". Agreed, see you tomorrow at 9am to do the front, and the back to be done in a week or two owing to diary. I went into the garden and caught the tradesman's eye at that point as he went back inside, looking shifty. Big guy, btw, not someone i'd want to front up to directly.
My dad, more elderly and more infirmed, has been caught by these types before. Cold called for a quick bit of roofing, £200, suddenly re-quoted to £2000, probably when they realised his state of mind. I wasn't here at the time, and yelled at him on the phone on that occasion and he got their vehicle reg, no money was given over and we never heard from them again.
But i don't think this was a cold call on Pete the neighbour. This trader was in a 74 plate merc yesterday. So maybe Pete knows him by word of mouth or was recommended.
My dilemma - not so much the nosey neighbour situation, but that is a factor, but where do i take this? I texted Pete straightaway and said get yourself some quotes. No clue if he got the text so later i tried calling his mobile,but it went straight to voicemail. It was then dark and i wanted to watch the game v QPR so i put a note through his door, basically saying 'look out, my Dad has been quoted before for jobs in the 000 that are only worth a few hundred, hence why i texted you earlier'. I've decided to leave it there with Pete. He's got himself in a situation he's probably embarrassed about, and possibly feels he has to see it through now.
Now this tradesman returned this morning at 9, with a younger guy, in a van with full livery and company name and contact details on side. They were done at 10.45, loaded and driven off. i have a picture of the van for what it's worth.
My Dad doesn't get on with Pete. They used to but Dad is self-destructive and curses Pete nowdays, jealous of his relatively good health, but he lives alone, and his place is a state. I helped Pete get up after a fall in the bramble of his back garden just a few weeks ago. He makes it out to the pub everyday, drives there and back. But i don't have a rapport with him, and only visit here. On the surface of it Pete is looking after himself, but actually i'm 90% sure he's fallen victim to a scammer posing as a local trader.
There's a small window of opportunity now since the firm won't be back for a week or two to do the back garden. If i bump in to Pete i'll say something to him as a follow up- like is your phone working and did you get my text. Take the hit if he's going to think i'm being a nosey so and so. Beyond that, i know the police or trading standards will say no crime has been committed. What angers me is this trader is likely to get away with this and i am feeling relatively powerless.
Happy for ideas, or someone to tell me i have the numbers wrong and this type of work does indeed cost a lot more than i expected.
I know the neighbours opposite know Pete and look out for him. I also have some family contact numbers for him with spare keys my dad holds here, but i don't want to involve others and would rather speak direct to Pete first ideally. I might contact the local police liaison as it is a known problem in this area. Am i missing something?
Thanks for reading.
It's nice of you to be concerned but it's probably too late to do anything about it if Pete has already agreed the work to be done.
He has been conned no doubt but as you said you have no rapport with him and your Dad doesn't get on with him so if i was you i'd tell the neighbours who do look out for him what has happened and don't stress yourself over it.5 -
Totally agree. Often it isn't an easy thing to do, but ultimately you are helping someone potentially not get ripped off. And a bonus of those ripping others off not getting another mark.AddicksAddict said:
Get involved as much as you want. People looking out for each other is a good thing.Baldybonce said:
To be a bit blunt. Don't get involved.swords_alive said:Overheard a conversation yesterday between the my dad's elderly neighbour and a 'trades-person' taking place in the neighbour's back garden. He's clearly been ripped off.
He has overgrown bramble, front and back, small gardens, probably 20 m sq at the back, and about 6 sq in the front. I'm expecting to hear a figure of a few hundred- 2 days work for 2 guys, so £600, maybe add in some overheads, so maybe absolute max £800 to £1000. And this is Somerset so Somerset pricing. I hear some deliberating, then a figure of £2000, some agreement, then i hear "tell you what Pete, i'll do the front as well, call it £3,000". Agreed, see you tomorrow at 9am to do the front, and the back to be done in a week or two owing to diary. I went into the garden and caught the tradesman's eye at that point as he went back inside, looking shifty. Big guy, btw, not someone i'd want to front up to directly.
My dad, more elderly and more infirmed, has been caught by these types before. Cold called for a quick bit of roofing, £200, suddenly re-quoted to £2000, probably when they realised his state of mind. I wasn't here at the time, and yelled at him on the phone on that occasion and he got their vehicle reg, no money was given over and we never heard from them again.
But i don't think this was a cold call on Pete the neighbour. This trader was in a 74 plate merc yesterday. So maybe Pete knows him by word of mouth or was recommended.
My dilemma - not so much the nosey neighbour situation, but that is a factor, but where do i take this? I texted Pete straightaway and said get yourself some quotes. No clue if he got the text so later i tried calling his mobile,but it went straight to voicemail. It was then dark and i wanted to watch the game v QPR so i put a note through his door, basically saying 'look out, my Dad has been quoted before for jobs in the 000 that are only worth a few hundred, hence why i texted you earlier'. I've decided to leave it there with Pete. He's got himself in a situation he's probably embarrassed about, and possibly feels he has to see it through now.
Now this tradesman returned this morning at 9, with a younger guy, in a van with full livery and company name and contact details on side. They were done at 10.45, loaded and driven off. i have a picture of the van for what it's worth.
My Dad doesn't get on with Pete. They used to but Dad is self-destructive and curses Pete nowdays, jealous of his relatively good health, but he lives alone, and his place is a state. I helped Pete get up after a fall in the bramble of his back garden just a few weeks ago. He makes it out to the pub everyday, drives there and back. But i don't have a rapport with him, and only visit here. On the surface of it Pete is looking after himself, but actually i'm 90% sure he's fallen victim to a scammer posing as a local trader.
There's a small window of opportunity now since the firm won't be back for a week or two to do the back garden. If i bump in to Pete i'll say something to him as a follow up- like is your phone working and did you get my text. Take the hit if he's going to think i'm being a nosey so and so. Beyond that, i know the police or trading standards will say no crime has been committed. What angers me is this trader is likely to get away with this and i am feeling relatively powerless.
Happy for ideas, or someone to tell me i have the numbers wrong and this type of work does indeed cost a lot more than i expected.
I know the neighbours opposite know Pete and look out for him. I also have some family contact numbers for him with spare keys my dad holds here, but i don't want to involve others and would rather speak direct to Pete first ideally. I might contact the local police liaison as it is a known problem in this area. Am i missing something?
Thanks for reading.
It's nice of you to be concerned but it's probably too late to do anything about it if Pete has already agreed the work to be done.
He has been conned no doubt but as you said you have no rapport with him and your Dad doesn't get on with him so if i was you i'd tell the neighbours who do look out for him what has happened and don't stress yourself over it.
As you have details of their vehicle (and name on the side?), if the neighbour gets another quote that is significantly less, it would definitely be worth reporting them. Personally I think it is worth reporting issues - if people don't report things, how does anyone know about it? This lot may have been reported before and every instance reported helps towards action being taken
Good luck3 -
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Is it a "scam"?
To me a scam is where someone gets conned into paying for something that doesn't need doing - eg a new roof when there's only a couple of tiles need replacing. Or when the price mysteriously doubles half way through the job when you're over a barrel and can't back out.
However, that garden clearly needs sorting out, so he's not paying for something that isn't needed. The only question is then the price, is it reasonable? That comes down to getting a few quotes and judging which is the best value for money. Some people just go with the first quote they get, which is up to them. Some shop around.
It does sound on the pricey side, but I'm not sure it's a matter for the police!4 -
who mentioned the police? Trading Standards would be appropriate, as previously mentionedOff_it said:Is it a "scam"?
To me a scam is where someone gets conned into paying for something that doesn't need doing - eg a new roof when there's only a couple of tiles need replacing. Or when the price mysteriously doubles half way through the job when you're over a barrel and can't back out.
However, that garden clearly needs sorting out, so he's not paying for something that isn't needed. The only question is then the price, is it reasonable? That comes down to getting a few quotes and judging which is the best value for money. Some people just go with the first quote they get, which is up to them. Some shop around.
It does sound on the pricey side, but I'm not sure it's a matter for the police!
If the cost is significantly higher and disproportionate then there is malicious intent/praying on the vulnerable/financial abuse. And then if there is any pressure come payment time, there can potentially be demanding money with menaces
This might (or might not) be small amounts in comparison to some, but nonetheless, the perpertrators should be reported it as it is unlikely to be the only time
https://www.coventry.gov.uk/trading-standards/rogue-traders-doorstep-crime/3
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I was vague at the top about how the price was arrived at. It went from a quick initial mention of 500 for the front, then after some mumbling an offer of 2000 for the back. The 2000 was agreed so then the guy said "tell you what I'll do for you Pete, front and back for 3000". So there was this rapid upping of price, passed off as a good deal.
They came back the next morning and within 2 hours had cleared the front. There'll be no paper work, no statement of right to cancel, and possibly cash has already been given over. Can't confirm those details as of yet, but going by how my dad was treated previously by scam roofers, it's a similar mode of operation.0 -
The small front area cleared next morning within 2 hours, before pic is in darkness as could only take that at that time.
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The opening post does.PrincessFiona said:
who mentioned the police? Trading Standards would be appropriate, as previously mentionedOff_it said:Is it a "scam"?
To me a scam is where someone gets conned into paying for something that doesn't need doing - eg a new roof when there's only a couple of tiles need replacing. Or when the price mysteriously doubles half way through the job when you're over a barrel and can't back out.
However, that garden clearly needs sorting out, so he's not paying for something that isn't needed. The only question is then the price, is it reasonable? That comes down to getting a few quotes and judging which is the best value for money. Some people just go with the first quote they get, which is up to them. Some shop around.
It does sound on the pricey side, but I'm not sure it's a matter for the police!
If the cost is significantly higher and disproportionate then there is malicious intent/praying on the vulnerable/financial abuse. And then if there is any pressure come payment time, there can potentially be demanding money with menaces
This might (or might not) be small amounts in comparison to some, but nonetheless, the perpertrators should be reported it as it is unlikely to be the only time
https://www.coventry.gov.uk/trading-standards/rogue-traders-doorstep-crime/3
You're welcome.0 -
That’s the spirit…..😩Baldybonce said:
To be a bit blunt. Don't get involved.swords_alive said:Overheard a conversation yesterday between the my dad's elderly neighbour and a 'trades-person' taking place in the neighbour's back garden. He's clearly been ripped off.
He has overgrown bramble, front and back, small gardens, probably 20 m sq at the back, and about 6 sq in the front. I'm expecting to hear a figure of a few hundred- 2 days work for 2 guys, so £600, maybe add in some overheads, so maybe absolute max £800 to £1000. And this is Somerset so Somerset pricing. I hear some deliberating, then a figure of £2000, some agreement, then i hear "tell you what Pete, i'll do the front as well, call it £3,000". Agreed, see you tomorrow at 9am to do the front, and the back to be done in a week or two owing to diary. I went into the garden and caught the tradesman's eye at that point as he went back inside, looking shifty. Big guy, btw, not someone i'd want to front up to directly.
My dad, more elderly and more infirmed, has been caught by these types before. Cold called for a quick bit of roofing, £200, suddenly re-quoted to £2000, probably when they realised his state of mind. I wasn't here at the time, and yelled at him on the phone on that occasion and he got their vehicle reg, no money was given over and we never heard from them again.
But i don't think this was a cold call on Pete the neighbour. This trader was in a 74 plate merc yesterday. So maybe Pete knows him by word of mouth or was recommended.
My dilemma - not so much the nosey neighbour situation, but that is a factor, but where do i take this? I texted Pete straightaway and said get yourself some quotes. No clue if he got the text so later i tried calling his mobile,but it went straight to voicemail. It was then dark and i wanted to watch the game v QPR so i put a note through his door, basically saying 'look out, my Dad has been quoted before for jobs in the 000 that are only worth a few hundred, hence why i texted you earlier'. I've decided to leave it there with Pete. He's got himself in a situation he's probably embarrassed about, and possibly feels he has to see it through now.
Now this tradesman returned this morning at 9, with a younger guy, in a van with full livery and company name and contact details on side. They were done at 10.45, loaded and driven off. i have a picture of the van for what it's worth.
My Dad doesn't get on with Pete. They used to but Dad is self-destructive and curses Pete nowdays, jealous of his relatively good health, but he lives alone, and his place is a state. I helped Pete get up after a fall in the bramble of his back garden just a few weeks ago. He makes it out to the pub everyday, drives there and back. But i don't have a rapport with him, and only visit here. On the surface of it Pete is looking after himself, but actually i'm 90% sure he's fallen victim to a scammer posing as a local trader.
There's a small window of opportunity now since the firm won't be back for a week or two to do the back garden. If i bump in to Pete i'll say something to him as a follow up- like is your phone working and did you get my text. Take the hit if he's going to think i'm being a nosey so and so. Beyond that, i know the police or trading standards will say no crime has been committed. What angers me is this trader is likely to get away with this and i am feeling relatively powerless.
Happy for ideas, or someone to tell me i have the numbers wrong and this type of work does indeed cost a lot more than i expected.
I know the neighbours opposite know Pete and look out for him. I also have some family contact numbers for him with spare keys my dad holds here, but i don't want to involve others and would rather speak direct to Pete first ideally. I might contact the local police liaison as it is a known problem in this area. Am i missing something?
Thanks for reading.
It's nice of you to be concerned but it's probably too late to do anything about it if Pete has already agreed the work to be done.
He has been conned no doubt but as you said you have no rapport with him and your Dad doesn't get on with him so if i was you i'd tell the neighbours who do look out for him what has happened and don't stress yourself over it.2 -
Did you do any searches on the name on the van?
A grand to clear that small space is OTT. Call them scammers, rogue traders or something more colourful if you wish.
I paid less than a grand for two arborists to cut down and dispose of two large trees and that was a day's work. Clearing a few brambles in a couple of hours for the same price would have even the most workshy picking up a pair of shears.4 -
As a retired guy, I do the odd gardening job for people. I think my quote for that would have been 3 hours at £20 an hour. Taking the piss would be £100.swords_alive said:The small front area cleared next morning within 2 hours, before pic is in darkness as could only take that at that time.4 -
Welcome for what? Answering a question?Off_it said:
The opening post does.PrincessFiona said:
who mentioned the police? Trading Standards would be appropriate, as previously mentionedOff_it said:Is it a "scam"?
To me a scam is where someone gets conned into paying for something that doesn't need doing - eg a new roof when there's only a couple of tiles need replacing. Or when the price mysteriously doubles half way through the job when you're over a barrel and can't back out.
However, that garden clearly needs sorting out, so he's not paying for something that isn't needed. The only question is then the price, is it reasonable? That comes down to getting a few quotes and judging which is the best value for money. Some people just go with the first quote they get, which is up to them. Some shop around.
It does sound on the pricey side, but I'm not sure it's a matter for the police!
If the cost is significantly higher and disproportionate then there is malicious intent/praying on the vulnerable/financial abuse. And then if there is any pressure come payment time, there can potentially be demanding money with menaces
This might (or might not) be small amounts in comparison to some, but nonetheless, the perpertrators should be reported it as it is unlikely to be the only time
https://www.coventry.gov.uk/trading-standards/rogue-traders-doorstep-crime/3
You're welcome.0 -
Err, yes.PrincessFiona said:
Welcome for what? Answering a question?Off_it said:
The opening post does.PrincessFiona said:
who mentioned the police? Trading Standards would be appropriate, as previously mentionedOff_it said:Is it a "scam"?
To me a scam is where someone gets conned into paying for something that doesn't need doing - eg a new roof when there's only a couple of tiles need replacing. Or when the price mysteriously doubles half way through the job when you're over a barrel and can't back out.
However, that garden clearly needs sorting out, so he's not paying for something that isn't needed. The only question is then the price, is it reasonable? That comes down to getting a few quotes and judging which is the best value for money. Some people just go with the first quote they get, which is up to them. Some shop around.
It does sound on the pricey side, but I'm not sure it's a matter for the police!
If the cost is significantly higher and disproportionate then there is malicious intent/praying on the vulnerable/financial abuse. And then if there is any pressure come payment time, there can potentially be demanding money with menaces
This might (or might not) be small amounts in comparison to some, but nonetheless, the perpertrators should be reported it as it is unlikely to be the only time
https://www.coventry.gov.uk/trading-standards/rogue-traders-doorstep-crime/3
You're welcome.
You wanted to know who had mentioned the police so I pointed it out. You're welcome.0
