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OLD ARTICLE: Theo, Andy, Phil and Damian

Apologies for starting yet another new thread but I've been too down to read much of CL over the weekend, valid as no doubt all the other views expressed are. It hurts.

I have felt, and said so on here, all season that this is still a group of, (mostly) decent or above, players rather than a team but at least it was a group with spirit as shown v Bournemouth, Orient and Plymouth. But Saturday was a return to the worst days of last season and the Pardew era. As soon as the 2nd goal went in I felt it would be 3 or 4 as we had so little invention or team play and they knew if they kept working the ball around we would slip up just as we already had.

I was baffled by Parky's team selection. Dailly RB when Francis is fit. No, play your strongest CH pairing (CD and JF) and get rid of the liability that is Doc. No wonder the team doesn't gel when it changes so often. Yes the injuries and suspensions have been a major disruption and 20 out and 11 in is going to take time but by now some semblance of team play and pattern should be emerging. That means set plays, at both ends, working and relying on more than the individual skills of Reid and Martin to open up a side.

I've been a defender of Parky as I could see the good players he has brought in and who often have re-signed for him which I see as testament to him as a man manager. Yet those players have still not gelled into a team.

No team, and especially at this level, plays well every week. There will always be bad days but Saturday was a lot more than that to my eyes and there are too few good days when we dominate or show our ability consistently over 90 minutes.

Is that the players or the management? Both, in my view, and when the whistle blows mainly the players but I am reminded of Theo Foley and Andy Nelson.

It was Theo who recruited Hales, Flanagan, Powell etc, yet couldn't build them into a side capable of getting out of division 3. Theo was and is still greatly respected at Charlton as a decent, likeable man. It would be hard to find many Charlton fans who would say the same about Andy Nelson despite it being he who took what was largely Foley's team and got it promoted.

I fear that Phil Parkinson is Theo Foley, a hard-working, intelligent man with a good eye for a player but not someone to mould those players into a consistently winning team. So do we then need an Andy Nelson figure. Maybe we can do without someone who calls the fans "Village Idiots" but something needs to change.

That change either has to come now (not soon but now) under Parky or we have to take the gamble (and gamble it must be) of going for someone else.

It is easy to throw out names, often ex-Charlton players, but how may of us know if they are now or will ever be management material? And even if they are can they cope with Charlton as it is now. Both Foley and his predecessor Eddie Firmani struggled at a Club that was potless and on a slide. Bad managers or wrong men for the job in the circumstances as they stood? And the same question could be asked of the present incumbent.

I don't envy Richard Murray. He can see what is happening and will know how fans are feeling. He will also see what Parky is doing and trying to do to turn things around.

As I said, I was too depressed to read much of CL over the weekend so apologies if this has all been covered before but if, and I still say this reluctantly, Parky leaves then I will wish him well and suggest that we whoever we appoint we make sure that Damian Matthew is part of the first team set up. He is the an excellent coach, he may even be a good manager but he is an excellent coach. So pair him with Chris Powell or even Christian Dailly but just get him coaching the first team.
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Comments

  • great post bar the end,we need a proven manager not young tracksuited coaches,worried that we may try to get away with daily or kinsella thats scary in my view
  • I agree wholheartedly with the Damian Matthew sentiment.

    He knows the players already. He knows the set up and is VERY respected amongst his peers I believe. We should be looking to maybe give him a chance to assert his style of play on the first team and see where it gets us.
    It would certainly be easier on the eye and he wouldn't cost the earth - and anything that secures an asset to this club for a long time certainly deserves to be looked into
  • nope a man with no ties to this club,we have done the man within club thing,time to go out and get someone
  • Clean slate
  • [url=mailto://http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=29389&page=1#Item_38]My previous suggestion[/url]

    A helping hand when it's needed.
  • doubt they would go with somebody without manager experince that would be taking the piss out of us
  • IF we do it then it has to be a clean sweep, new manager (not currently connected to us) who is allowed to bring in his own coaching team
  • [cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]nope a man with no ties to this club,we have done the man within club thing,time to go out and get someone

    I agree that would be nice and, if the investment rumours are true, then its a possibility. Unfortunately the financial restrictions on this club mean it might be that we can only promote from within. We are actually very lucky to have someone of Matthew's calibre there if needed - he has a way of playing and appears a very good coach - whether he could step up is anyones guess but he is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick
  • Sorry - dealing with 16, 17 and 18 year old scholars is a totally different game. There are some who believe that he is a good coach of youngsters and I feel that is about it at the moment - definately NOT a first team manager - certainly at this club anyway.
  • he has played for helsea so im sure he knows his coaching but the problems are so big i think somebody is needed who has seen it all before. lets be honest if warnock or somebody was here we would not be in this situation,we need somebody who motivates with a bit of fear it works,there to nice
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  • I mentioned Andy Nelson in another thread. Poor old Parky is too popular with the players for my liking. Whereas Andy Nelson was hated by Paddy Powell and a few others I believe. But times have changed a lot since those days and few managers other than Fergie have that same fear factor over the players. I definitely think we need a more disciplined approach, but also a more tactically astute manager who believes in playing football as it should be played.
  • [cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]we need somebody who motivates with a bit of fear

    Hence the Nelson comparison
  • cannot remember him really,no im talking constructive fear
  • Parky has assembled a team capable of getting out of league one but doesnt seem to be able to manage them. On that basis make Parky the chief scout, clear the rest out, no sentimental appointments. Get a new man in with new ideas
  • [cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Whereas Andy Nelson was hated by Paddy Powell and a few others I believe

    Correct. Andy Nelson was not Paddys favourite person
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: PaulCAFC[/cite]Sorry - dealing with 16, 17 and 18 year old scholars is a totally different game. There are some who believe that he is a good coach of youngsters and I feel that is about it at the moment - definately NOT a first team manager - certainly at this club anyway.[/quote]

    Just what is the basis of your judgement. How often have you seen Damian Matthew at work with players? How many times have you seen his players play? Training young players/reserve players/being a development coach is very often the first step before senior management. I'd certainly like to see him move up and be a bigger influence on the first team as Henry suggests, even if he isn't the actual manager. I know that other clubs are keeping an eye on his progress.
  • [cite]Posted By: Nadou[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: PaulCAFC[/cite]Sorry - dealing with 16, 17 and 18 year old scholars is a totally different game. There are some who believe that he is a good coach of youngsters and I feel that is about it at the moment - definately NOT a first team manager - certainly at this club anyway.

    Just what is the basis of your judgement. How often have you seen Damian Matthew at work with players? How many times have you seen his players play? Training young players/reserve players/being a development coach is very often the first step before senior management. I'd certainly like to see him move up and be a bigger influence on the first team as Henry suggests, even if he isn't the actual manager. I know that other clubs are keeping an eye on his progress.

    I agree completely, even if it is because I know you watch the youth team regularly, Nadou. Matthew seems to get his teams to play decent football and importantly, enjoy themselves. From a few videos I've seen - including one of a Soccer AM Skills School thing - there's real cameraderie in the youth team squads, and an understanding.
  • edited October 2010
    Henry, we haven't always seen eye to eye but that's as thoughtful and intellectually coherent post as any I've read on CL (apart from my own, obviously!).

    I wondered why you had gone so quiet - and funnily enough on Saturday night I refered to you as Parkinson's ''most eloquent, articulate and reasoned supporter.'' Without wanting to give your ego a boost it hardly needs, I reckon that post is a bit of a game-changer, as they say.

    Initially I had Yeovil on Nov 20 marked down as the likely date when he goes. But I'm getting a growing feeling that if we lose at Carlisle and fail to beat Shef Wed at home, Parky will be gone by 6pm on Saturday week.
  • Good post Ben, I liked the analogies, hadn't looked at it from that angle and have to say it makes sense. Cannot comment about Damian as I know very little about him, but a change is definitely needed come what may. I'd settle for an Andy Nelson type if it means breaking this slide
  • If it has to be internal promotion to manager then yes Matthews, otherwise completely clean slate.
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  • Well said, Henry.

    As you know, Ben Tegg sat with us on Saturday ( a long term supporter, youthful Valley Party activist, ex Club employee) He hasn't been attending matches for a while, so I was interested to hear his views on what was happening ( or not) on the pitch.

    In a nutshell, he felt "something" was intrinsically wrong both on & off the pitch...Players not talking to each other, lacking in confidence, nowhere near enough movement off the ball and hence giving each other little or no options when in possession. Regarding the fans, he felt we were very flat - seemingly accepting with a shrug what was happening / apathetic. He did feel that we had some quality players with more than a little skill but I could tell he was perplexed by what he was witnessing and why.

    Like Henry, I too have been a Parky supporter and the family sponsors his training top this season. However, sadly I am beginning to wonder whether he is the man to get this group of lads playing to their strengths . We are all too aware , as Airman has stated often enough , that bums on seats is the main source of revenue for the Club. How many non season ticket holders in attendance on Saturday will keep the faith and return again unless the product on offer significanly improves ? Not too many, I fear. And without that income, the gloomy picture painted of our financial frailty will inevitably darken still more .

    A very worrying time for our Chairman indeed and one where crucial decisions made or postponed could be of paramount importance for the future of our beloved Club.
  • We needs a hard as nails, no nonsense, hard case to stick a rocket up these guys arses...
  • Good post Henry.I personally would go for Matthew and commence a Dario Gradi style of management .Blood the youngsters in now.Our biggest asset at the moment is our Academy.We could not do this at Premiership level or when we tried to bounce straight back.But surely now is the time for rebuilding with our up and coming youngsters. Saying that ,over the weeks I have noticed that very few lifers are willing to take the long patient route.I respect their view.The rumours about the takeover dont help.They keep sending false hopes and cloud any long term
    decisions.
  • Great post Ben agree 100% the decision to play Dailly at right back was shockin.He had to play there at Plymouth and you can get away with it for 1 game but not on a regular basis, when the player Parky hasd put up on a pedestal was now available.Give Damien Matthew a go let him
    introduce his style of football on a team, it may take a bit of time, but his style is the same as Poyet's and look what he is achieving.If you train all week continously on keeping and passing the ball, in the end it is going to reap dividends, but you must and I mean must have the balls to follow your beliefs and give it time to come to fruition.
  • Damien Matthews is a bright and intellegant coach. he would make a great manager with someone alongside to guide him until he was ready to go full steam ahead on his own.

    Lennie anyone?
  • edited October 2010
    I watched a friendly where Solly and Wagstaff were running down the wings with confidence displaying the most accurate link up play I'd seen for a long time. I'd just thought, why on earth can't the first team do that? I'd also quietly mentioned to PP that the radio commentators for one away game had totally slaughtered Doc, and I asked if he thought it was fair. I'd expected PP to say something like, 'It wasn't his best game'. I got a very stout 100% defence of Doc instead, no hesitation or caveats at all, he totally believed what he was saying and it flew in the face of just about everyone elses opinions. PP just seems unable to see what's happening on the pitch and thus, he doesn't respond because he hasn't seen it. He maintains the, now highly stubborn, belief that if there is a hole, you can just plug it by moving an experienced player to that position and all will be well. If Damian Matthews represents a change to that outlook, and if Solly and Wagstaff's passing were examples of the type of play that he produces, go for it. But we would need a Chrissy Powell figure as well, the transition will be messy and we need someone who the supporters will respect and give time to. Right now, it seems the most promsing idea that I've read about. Good thinking Henry, really good thinking.
  • [cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Damien Matthews is a bright and intellegant coach. he would make a great manager with someone alongside to guide him until he was ready to go full steam ahead on his own.

    Lennie anyone?
    [cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite][url=mailto://http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=29389&page=1#Item_38]My previous suggestion[/url]

    A helping hand when it's needed.

    I was originally thinking along the lines of Lenny helping Parky but a Lenny/Matthews partnership is a well reasoned suggestion.
  • We shouldn't under estimate the huge impact that a 15000 Valley crowd that was right behind the new manager, could have on the team and results. Therefore, I think that has to be a priority, bring in a manager that has a large majority support of the Charlton fans. This is one of the reasons why Parky was doomed from the outset, at least 60% of the fans didn't want him. With the players that we have and with the crowd right behind them there is no way that we would get relegated even if an inexperienced manager like Damian Matthew were to come in and drop a few rickets along the way. Fans have been starved of decent football for so long that I think they would be very forgiving if they could relate to the new manager and see that he was trying to get the players playing the game in the correct way.
  • Was at a wedding a last month (same day as Notts County home), Damien Showed up at the reception as his wife is mates with my mates wife, even tho i was absolutely battered by the time he got there after the game (wedding was in Tenterden miles away so must of been half 8 or 9pm) he still had plenty of time for me, chatted with him for ages, my Mrs and his chatted for about an hour too, really nice people both of them, Damien was really loving what he is doing at Charlton, and remember i am bladdered properly at this point, i reckon he was with me and me mates pretty much all night till we left at about midnight!

    Thoroughly bloody nice bloke. See the pic.
  • Thoroughly bloody nice bloke. See the pic.[div id=Attachments_795870 class=Attachments][ul][div]Damien.jpg[/div][/ul][/div]

    Damn, that rules him out then. Next!
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