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A thought about Kelman, Apter and Oloafe
Swisdom
Posts: 15,053
I know the club said those were longer term investments - i'm starting to believe that now.
This season has always been about survival at all costs. Players who can roll their sleeves up, muck in, take it to the trenches etc. Coady (for his leadership) Clarke and Sichenje seem to fit that mould. Chambers brings us much-needed balance on the left too and is committed when he plays.
Kelman, Apter and Oloafe (less so) are not really that type. Hear me out though…we have all seen they have quality about them at times but it's more expansive performances that saw the better of them.
So could it be fair to say they may get more of a look in next season if we can supplement some the workhorses for a bit more flair?
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I would imagine that was the plan.
Whether they are up to it remains to be seen1 -
If we get two more mobile central midfielders to compliment Coventry and Carey, then we will be more secure through the middle. One has to be like Kinsella, able to play cute passes and be cultured as well as working for the team.4
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I’ve not given up on them, they do need to improve but I think the jump in level has been a bit of a surprise to them, obviously our approach hasn’t helped. Still time for them.4
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Think the injury to Edwards put a kibosh on Apter's progress this season as we then needed to be more defensive on the right-hand side.Sword65pf said:I’ve not given up on them, they do need to improve but I think the jump in level has been a bit of a surprise to them, obviously our approach hasn’t helped. Still time for them.5 -
Apter has the tools to be a success at this level, we just need to find a way to get him in the side and let him flourish.3
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Olaofe is 27 this year, not really sure how he falls under the long term investment12
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Apter is the only one of the 3 that i believe has a potential career higher than L11
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I would be surprised if we ever see Apter in a First Team game whilst Jones is in charge at Charlton. Not a Jones player.
Oloafe possibly will come back and be given another chance but more than likely will be moved on.
Kelman for the fee involved not shaken it up as yet but one that will be given more of a go between now and end of the season.5 -
Long term investment is a nice phrase, but the likes of Kirk, DJ and Lavelle were "long term investments" as well. Players either step up or they don't, and our style of play will still be Jonesball next season.
Carey is 25, Leaburn 22. Both look very comfortable at this level.5 -
Agree, the whole team would improve big time with an input of two championship standard midfielders.cfgs said:If we get two more mobile central midfielders to compliment Coventry and Carey, then we will be more secure through the middle. One has to be like Kinsella, able to play cute passes and be cultured as well as working for the team.
A Mark Kinsella level of quality, yes please!!0 -
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I wouldn't write them off completely yet, but I believe they were all signed with the hope/expectation that they'd make an impact in our first team this season and improve as players. They got long contracts for that reason, as well as us paying decent fees.
We're not in the position where we'll purposely spend £2m on a player for the future to then go on loan or play u21 football.
Edwards injury ended us trying to develop Apter as a RWB, but he's young enough that he could still develop into a Championship player. I'm not sure he'll get enough game time under Jones though, so wouldn't be surprised to see him move on in the summer, even if it's only another loan.
Kelman's had some good performances and shown signs he can score goals at this level, but he offers the least from our current strikers when they don't have the ball. Due to that it's hard to justify him keeping his spot in the team while we're in a relegation battle. Could go either way in the summer, depending on the size of our budget and how ambitious and ruthless we're looking to be.
The problem with Olaofe for me is he's not going to outscore Kelman/Godden in that poacher role, he's not going to be a more effective target man than Leaburn/Dykes. It was probably hoped he'd be good competition for TC in the striker/winger hybrid role, but it's not worked out that way. TC's pace and dribbling causes problems in most games, even if the end product isn't always there. That can't be said for Olaofe, and at his age it's probably not going to happen, so he's the one who looks the most likely to move on this summer.
On our style of play, assuming we stay up and make some good signings I'd expect it to improve, but not completely change. That might be enough to get more from Kelman or Apter, but it also wouldn't be a surprise if they both moved on to help fund signings that are more suited.7 -
I think NJ would love for Carey to be the aggressive, ball playing 8 and have Knibbs as the 10. He tried it often enough early in the season to see that was his original vision. Both him and Carey have talked a lot in recent weeks about improving the defensive side of Carey’s game too3
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Swisdom said:
I know the club said those were longer term investments - i'm starting to believe that now.
This season has always been about survival at all costs. Players who can roll their sleeves up, muck in, take it to the trenches etc. Coady (for his leadership) Clarke and Sichenje seem to fit that mould. Chambers brings us much-needed balance on the left too and is committed when he plays.
Kelman, Apter and Oloafe (less so) are not really that type. Hear me out though…we have all seen they have quality about them at times but it's more expansive performances that saw the better of them.
So could it be fair to say they may get more of a look in next season if we can supplement some the workhorses for a bit more flair?
I think that's wishful thinking really.
Oloafe falls short in terms of basic technique for me.
Kelman has been a disappointment, although he has shown glimpses of a true striker's instinct. But his overall game is poor ... especially his pressing or closing down. He creates the impression of doing it without actually doing it.
I think he needs the ball 'over the top' to run onto, but we provide precious few of those.
Apter provides something different, but he lacks a defensive mindset and the required physicality. On that basis, Jones has been reluctant to use him, and I don't see that changing.
Of the Summer signings, Carey has obviously been the shining light. His goals, somewhat unexpected at this level, have been vital so far. But ... he does go missing. He is not a regular 7/10 player ... he is a 9 or a 5.
I haven't totally given up on Knibbs. I think he could do well for us, but that's based on hope and confidence in his technique, rather than on hard evidence. More wishful thinking.
We all do it.3 -
I just don't see, with our limited budget (for this level) that we brought in players as a long term investment that we didn't think would make an instant impact. I was never a fan of the Oloafe signing, just didn't think he he was good enough. Kelman & Apter ? I'm not sure if they have a future here, maybe in a different system they would have more impact but NJ obviously knew how he wanted to play. I think only Carey of our summer signings have been a success. The rest have been a big disappointment, Kaminski has had some good games but I not happy with a keeper who won't come for crosses or pushes the ball back into the danger zone. Hopefully we stay up & can bring in some championship ready players.2
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Going to be completely honest considering how they’ve done for us besides apter also have to consider he doesn’t suit the systemthen looking at Tanto and Apter’s loans so far think we’ve signed duds. Want to believe they will come good but sometimes you have to hold hands up and say we got it wrong.
I’d rather we scrap them get some money and go again then persist and potentially cost us because we were to stubborn0 -
Tanto is a league one player we signed because he played one good game against us. I think he gets moved on this summer islf we get a half decent bid.
Apter is too small and soft for the Championship - he may get there but I doubt it will be for us. I can see him going on loan in the summer as we hope he improves and we can get our investment back.
Kelman is a decent finisher who does little else and in our formation does not score enough to compensate. Not sure what happens to him.
Knibbs is a "finisher" in the Championship, as in a bench player you bring on hoping for a goal. He will likely do that role ok.1 -
I've got a very strange take on this.... a proper long term investment would have been buying/loaning players in the summer who would have gave us a much 'easier' chance of staying up. The 'who wants to come to a lower team' excuse is BS, offer them good wages and a release clause and they would come.Swisdom said:I know the club said those were longer term investments - i'm starting to believe that now.
This season has always been about survival at all costs. Players who can roll their sleeves up, muck in, take it to the trenches etc. Coady (for his leadership) Clarke and Sichenje seem to fit that mould. Chambers brings us much-needed balance on the left too and is committed when he plays.
Kelman, Apter and Oloafe (less so) are not really that type. Hear me out though…we have all seen they have quality about them at times but it's more expansive performances that saw the better of them.
So could it be fair to say they may get more of a look in next season if we can supplement some the workhorses for a bit more flair?
Spending most of the budget on players and loaning them back out is ridiculous and calling it a long term strategy is insulting.
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Apter played out of position, Olaofe a bit too and wasn’t given a proper chance. Kelman, we’ve never played to his strengths.1
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A Rad or a Keith Jones I'd be happy with.Addictedoldgit said:
Agree, the whole team would improve big time with an input of two championship standard midfielders.cfgs said:If we get two more mobile central midfielders to compliment Coventry and Carey, then we will be more secure through the middle. One has to be like Kinsella, able to play cute passes and be cultured as well as working for the team.
A Mark Kinsella level of quality, yes please!!1 -
Spending a relative fortune on long term investments when you've just come into the league and money is tight?
I'm not having that?
They were a gamble for this season that has backfired.
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He also was carrying an injury when we first played him. I think thete is more to come with him, but he needs a decent run, which he did not have after he came back from injury despite at the time many saying he looked good. Coming off the bench with Leaburn to replace Dykes and Godden offers potential. I certainly don't like the C Leaburn / Jason Lee like dual big strikers combo.The Red Robin said:Apter played out of position, Olaofe a bit too and wasn’t given a proper chance. Kelman, we’ve never played to his strengths.0 -
We paid fees for 7 players in the summer. Only 1 started yesterday (Kaminski), which is a terrible return. Of the remaining 6, only 1 was injured (Knibbs).
2 have been loaned out (Apter and Olaofe)
1 came off the bench right at the end of the game (Kelman)
1 was on the bench but didn't come on (Rankin-Costello)
1 didn't even make the bench (Burke)
Of the 15 players who featured yesterday
6 were with the club last season
4 were summer signings
5 were January signings
That more January signings are playing than summer ones, doesn't say much for our summer recruitment.6 -
Thinking yesterday it was Campbell and Dykes but what would Apter and Dykes have looked like.
Can't help but think we might have had a better end product.3 -
Playing Apter in a central role expecting him to provide pace and power on the counter, whilst also expecting him to do the amount of running TC does and playing with his back to goal which he has never done in his career. In a game where we parked the bus for 90 mins and expect to create almost nothing. Makes just as much sense playing him as a wingbackAddickinedi said:Thinking yesterday it was Campbell and Dykes but what would Apter and Dykes have looked like.
Can't help but think we might have had a better end product.5 -
Don't think we see Olaofe again , we'll do a deal with Stockport for him regardless of what league they're in.
There's something there with Apter but I don't know where he'll ever fit in unless he spends preseason bulking up to play as a 10.
Kelmans worth persevering with , I just don't know if he'll ever be a consistent scorer at this level.0 -
Whether you class them as investments or not if we were to be offered the exact amount we paid for all 3 I’m guessing 95% of us would all sell them which makes them bad investments and poor signings2
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But if you view the windows investments as a whole we could easily be net positive if Carey can hit 10ish goals next season tooCrispywood said:Whether you class them as investments or not if we were to be offered the exact amount we paid for all 3 I’m guessing 95% of us would all sell them which makes them bad investments and poor signings0 -
Investments can go down as well as up.Crispywood said:Whether you class them as investments or not if we were to be offered the exact amount we paid for all 3 I’m guessing 95% of us would all sell them which makes them bad investments and poor signings
Especially if loaned back to League One.0 -
They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.
I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.0 -
On what basis? He's just got his first assist in 5 games in L1 from a corner. I don't think he'd suddenly become a magical goalscoring wizard if we stuck him up front in the ChampionshipAddickinedi said:Thinking yesterday it was Campbell and Dykes but what would Apter and Dykes have looked like.
Can't help but think we might have had a better end product.1
