A thought about Kelman, Apter and Oloafe

MarcusH26

Chunes said:

They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.

I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.

Think Sichenje is a preview of what's to come in the summer , players from abroad with all the right attributes to succeed in this league but without the fees associated with signing players domestically. 

Would be surprised if we went back to the best of League 1 approach unless there's someone that's still at Luton from Nathan's time that he really really likes. 

Crispywood

Chunes said:

They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.

I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.

Want to know how good he is at selling.  A.Mitchell, Macca, Ahadme will be up for sale. 

TC Ramsay Mbick we may be forced to sell. 

Then Kelman, Apter, Tanto, JRC, Doc can be arguments for selling. 

Then you have all ur Z.Mitchell, Asiimwe, Gough, Anderson, Fullah, Kanu to think about. 

Despite it being our 2nd summer window in the championship think this one is going to be much more interesting + exciting 

NabySarr

MarcusH26 said:

Chunes said:

They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.

I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.

Think Sichenje is a preview of what's to come in the summer , players from abroad with all the right attributes to succeed in this league but without the fees associated with signing players domestically. 

Would be surprised if we went back to the best of League 1 approach unless there's someone that's still at Luton from Nathan's time that he really really likes. 

I think it will be a mix of championship experience, overseas players that are the right profile and then also still looking at the best of league 1. We didn’t get it right with a few this year but there’s still loads of players successfully making the jump from league 1 to championship, Carey, Jones, Ramsay just  from our squad, don’t need to abandon it just because a few others haven’t made the jump 

Exiled_Addick

carly burn said:

Spending a relative fortune on long term investments when you've just come into the league and money is tight?
I'm not having that?
They were a gamble for this season that has backfired.

Yeah, I agree. It feels like wishful thinking/revisionism.

I’m not writing anyone off, in particular I still think Kelman will come good at such time we play style more complimentary to his skills (let’s face it, we’ve resorted to being a dogged long ball team to get through this season), but I don’t think any were signed with any intention other than to be significant contributors this season.

fenaddick

Crispywood said:

Chunes said:

They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.

I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.

Want to know how good he is at selling.  A.Mitchell, Macca, Ahadme will be up for sale. 

TC Ramsay Mbick we may be forced to sell. 

Then Kelman, Apter, Tanto, JRC, Doc can be arguments for selling. 

Then you have all ur Z.Mitchell, Asiimwe, Gough, Anderson, Fullah, Kanu to think about. 

Despite it being our 2nd summer window in the championship think this one is going to be much more interesting + exciting 

Phil Chapple’s job isn’t selling, that’s Jim Rodwell’s

Addicksi

I think some where signed hoping they'd step up but with a risk of relegation they were proven in the league below. We're doing better than many expected so Tanto is unlikely to make it at this level, we're not playing to any of Kelmans strengths. Apter is a really strange one as we don't play him in his best position. Carey has been a gem and the January recruitment may well make the difference this year. I think we may have to cut our losses on maybe Tanto and Apter. 

Crispywood

NabySarr said:

MarcusH26 said:

Chunes said:

They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.

I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.

Think Sichenje is a preview of what's to come in the summer , players from abroad with all the right attributes to succeed in this league but without the fees associated with signing players domestically. 

Would be surprised if we went back to the best of League 1 approach unless there's someone that's still at Luton from Nathan's time that he really really likes. 

I think it will be a mix of championship experience, overseas players that are the right profile and then also still looking at the best of league 1. We didn’t get it right with a few this year but there’s still loads of players successfully making the jump from league 1 to championship, Carey, Jones, Ramsay just  from our squad, don’t need to abandon it just because a few others haven’t made the jump 

Out of curiosity just had a look and L1 is actually so bad I don’t know a single player except Tolaj who Plymouth won’t let go that actually would improve us. Real lack of gems that we could even pick up if we went down that route 

Chunes

Crispywood said:

Chunes said:

They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.

I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.

Want to know how good he is at selling.  A.Mitchell, Macca, Ahadme will be up for sale. 

TC Ramsay Mbick we may be forced to sell. 

Then Kelman, Apter, Tanto, JRC, Doc can be arguments for selling. 

Then you have all ur Z.Mitchell, Asiimwe, Gough, Anderson, Fullah, Kanu to think about. 

Despite it being our 2nd summer window in the championship think this one is going to be much more interesting + exciting 

He's Head of Recruitment so would guess he's more focused on the incomings, rather than Gallen's role, which was a bit of everything. 

Agree that this summer should be interesting if we stay up. 

Lewis Coaches

Addictedoldgit said:

cfgs said:

If we get two more mobile central midfielders to compliment Coventry and Carey, then we will be more secure through the middle.  One has to be like Kinsella, able to play cute passes and be cultured as well as working for the team.

Agree, the whole team would improve big time with an input of two championship standard midfielders.
A Mark Kinsella level of quality, yes please!!

Would love another Kinsella type of player, but he came from a league lower than championship. 

We almost missed signing him because we didn’t want to pay an extra 25000 pounds.

What a miss that would have been,he was looking at signing for Gillingham.

CaptainRobbo

Lewis Coaches said:

Addictedoldgit said:

cfgs said:

If we get two more mobile central midfielders to compliment Coventry and Carey, then we will be more secure through the middle.  One has to be like Kinsella, able to play cute passes and be cultured as well as working for the team.

Agree, the whole team would improve big time with an input of two championship standard midfielders.
A Mark Kinsella level of quality, yes please!!

Would love another Kinsella type of player, but he came from a league lower than championship. 

We almost missed signing him because we didn’t want to pay an extra 25000 pounds.

What a miss that would have been,he was looking at signing for Gillingham.

A sliding doors moment.

MarcusH26

Crispywood said:

NabySarr said:

MarcusH26 said:

Chunes said:

They said Ahadme was a longer term investment. If a player hasn't worked out, and is still on a long term contract, then there's not much else they can say.

I'm hopeful that with Phil Chapple through the door, we will start to extract more value from our pounds and pennies.

Think Sichenje is a preview of what's to come in the summer , players from abroad with all the right attributes to succeed in this league but without the fees associated with signing players domestically. 

Would be surprised if we went back to the best of League 1 approach unless there's someone that's still at Luton from Nathan's time that he really really likes. 

I think it will be a mix of championship experience, overseas players that are the right profile and then also still looking at the best of league 1. We didn’t get it right with a few this year but there’s still loads of players successfully making the jump from league 1 to championship, Carey, Jones, Ramsay just  from our squad, don’t need to abandon it just because a few others haven’t made the jump 

Out of curiosity just had a look and L1 is actually so bad I don’t know a single player except Tolaj who Plymouth won’t let go that actually would improve us. Real lack of gems that we could even pick up if we went down that route 

I don't think it's an especially good League 1 this season. Feels like an absolute mess. 

JohnnyH2

Swisdom said:

I know the club said those were longer term investments - i'm starting to believe that now.

This season has always been about survival at all costs. Players who can roll their sleeves up, muck in, take it to the trenches etc. Coady (for his leadership) Clarke and Sichenje seem to fit that mould. Chambers brings us much-needed balance on the left too and is committed when he plays.

Kelman, Apter and Oloafe (less so) are not really that type. Hear me out though…we have all seen they have quality about them at times but it's more expansive performances that saw the better of them.

So could it be fair to say they may get more of a look in next season if we can supplement some the workhorses for a bit more flair?

You have totally contradicted yourself in the 2nd paragraph. You state this season was all about players who get stuck in and then say Kelman, Tanto, Apter are not that type.

The club have at this stage made a massive error in signing 2 players for money and then having to loan them out in the next window. Money that made up a big percentage of our transfer kitty.

Instead of just saying nothing, the club decide they will put out a load of nonsense about these are one's for the future. Unfortunately we have supporters who fall for this spin and it gets said enough to become a truth.

I hope they do come back and are a success but let's all be honest and say it the way it is. 

raytreacy

I think Kelman, Apter and Oloafe are not that good. Strictly League one.

Crispywood

Biggest concern for me is that Bolton fans want Apter dropped, Tanto has already been dropped. If those two are currently struggling in systems suited for them and in the worse L1 ever, What chance do they have stepping up to the Championship in a wrong system. Kelman also doesn’t look like he has it. 

We called Ahadme an investment because in reality clubs can’t call there players flops and a waste of money. Just accept we made a mistake get them sold and use that money to go get Clarke’s/Bree’s/Chambers who we know can do it 

Garrymanilow

Crispywood said:

Biggest concern for me is that Bolton fans want Apter dropped, Tanto has already been dropped. If those two are currently struggling in systems suited for them and in the worse L1 ever, What chance do they have stepping up to the Championship in a wrong system. Kelman also doesn’t look like he has it. 

We called Ahadme an investment because in reality clubs can’t call there players flops and a waste of money. Just accept we made a mistake get them sold and use that money to go get Clarke’s/Bree’s/Chambers who we know can do it 

Worst L1 ever? Where's that come from?

PragueAddick

Crispywood said:

Biggest concern for me is that Bolton fans want Apter dropped, Tanto has already been dropped. If those two are currently struggling in systems suited for them and in the worse L1 ever, What chance do they have stepping up to the Championship in a wrong system. Kelman also doesn’t look like he has it. 

We called Ahadme an investment because in reality clubs can’t call there players flops and a waste of money. Just accept we made a mistake get them sold and use that money to go get Clarke’s/Bree’s/Chambers who we know can do it 

Are you sure that’s a majority opinion? Any Bolton fans who glanced at CL title pages might have made the same assumption about us and TC.

He’s still only 22 so he can be called an investment, but only if NJ plans a different more expansive system next season. Sometimes he hints at that. Tanto is 26, and hasn’t flourished back on home turf so that’s not good at all. I think that’s just a bad signing. Kelman, his last two appearances have been worrying after he had seemed to turn a corner. But then again…at this rate it is quite likely we will finish 18th, and yet no recognised striker  bags more than 3 goals. 

J BLOCK

I’m very confident Olafe and Kelman will never be successful in Championship 

Alwaysneil

Is Olafe the snowman from the film Frozen?

ElfsborgAddick

JohnnyH2 said:

Swisdom said:

I know the club said those were longer term investments - i'm starting to believe that now.

This season has always been about survival at all costs. Players who can roll their sleeves up, muck in, take it to the trenches etc. Coady (for his leadership) Clarke and Sichenje seem to fit that mould. Chambers brings us much-needed balance on the left too and is committed when he plays.

Kelman, Apter and Oloafe (less so) are not really that type. Hear me out though…we have all seen they have quality about them at times but it's more expansive performances that saw the better of them.

So could it be fair to say they may get more of a look in next season if we can supplement some the workhorses for a bit more flair?

You have totally contradicted yourself in the 2nd paragraph. You state this season was all about players who get stuck in and then say Kelman, Tanto, Apter are not that type.

The club have at this stage made a massive error in signing 2 players for money and then having to loan them out in the next window. Money that made up a big percentage of our transfer kitty.

Instead of just saying nothing, the club decide they will put out a load of nonsense about these are one's for the future. Unfortunately we have supporters who fall for this spin and it gets said enough to become a truth.

I hope they do come back and are a success but let's all be honest and say it the way it is. 

Ahadme has been another waste of money as well.

Alwaysneil

The club has pretty much owned up to that mistake tho

oohaahmortimer

Can't wait till we get promoted to the Prem and sign a load of potential that we can loan back out and use for our quest for survival 3 years after getting there , a load of bollox, we're not Chelsea and capable of running a footballers factory ffs

Crispywood

Garrymanilow said:

Crispywood said:

Biggest concern for me is that Bolton fans want Apter dropped, Tanto has already been dropped. If those two are currently struggling in systems suited for them and in the worse L1 ever, What chance do they have stepping up to the Championship in a wrong system. Kelman also doesn’t look like he has it. 

We called Ahadme an investment because in reality clubs can’t call there players flops and a waste of money. Just accept we made a mistake get them sold and use that money to go get Clarke’s/Bree’s/Chambers who we know can do it 

Worst L1 ever? Where's that come from?

I could say about the individual quality of players being poor, how our average players like A.Mitchell is one of the best Cb’s in the league at present. 

But to sum it up Lincoln are 2nd and Connor Mcgrandles is classified as a top 5 L1 midfielder according to the stats 

Crispywood

PragueAddick said:

Crispywood said:

Biggest concern for me is that Bolton fans want Apter dropped, Tanto has already been dropped. If those two are currently struggling in systems suited for them and in the worse L1 ever, What chance do they have stepping up to the Championship in a wrong system. Kelman also doesn’t look like he has it. 

We called Ahadme an investment because in reality clubs can’t call there players flops and a waste of money. Just accept we made a mistake get them sold and use that money to go get Clarke’s/Bree’s/Chambers who we know can do it 

Are you sure that’s a majority opinion? Any Bolton fans who glanced at CL title pages might have made the same assumption about us and TC.

He’s still only 22 so he can be called an investment, but only if NJ plans a different more expansive system next season. Sometimes he hints at that. Tanto is 26, and hasn’t flourished back on home turf so that’s not good at all. I think that’s just a bad signing. Kelman, his last two appearances have been worrying after he had seemed to turn a corner. But then again…at this rate it is quite likely we will finish 18th, and yet no recognised striker  bags more than 3 goals. 

It’s twitter so obviously have to take everything as a pinch of salt. But I can’t find a single positive comment from the last couple of days everything is just slating him. TC does get his stick but a few people stick up for him Apter nothing good to say from multiple fan accounts. 

sam3110

Olaofe was taken as a punt to see if he stepped up a level again like he did from League 2 into League 1, and I don't think it worked. 

Kelman was scoring goals for fun in League 1 and we obviously decided he was similarly built to Godden and had that sniffer dog tendency, but in reality he's nothing alike and relies on a lot of passing play to work the ball to him in space and we don't play that way right now.

Apter was brought in with an attacking wingback position in mind, with us playing a more defensive LWB and being able to play Ramsay as the RCB, so when attacking we almost switch to a 433 with Campbell wide left, Apter wide right and a striker holding more centrally, however the Edwards injury didn't help and Apter couldn't deal with the rigours of being a wingback in the Championship 

Garrymanilow

Crispywood said:

Garrymanilow said:

Crispywood said:

Biggest concern for me is that Bolton fans want Apter dropped, Tanto has already been dropped. If those two are currently struggling in systems suited for them and in the worse L1 ever, What chance do they have stepping up to the Championship in a wrong system. Kelman also doesn’t look like he has it. 

We called Ahadme an investment because in reality clubs can’t call there players flops and a waste of money. Just accept we made a mistake get them sold and use that money to go get Clarke’s/Bree’s/Chambers who we know can do it 

Worst L1 ever? Where's that come from?

I could say about the individual quality of players being poor, how our average players like A.Mitchell is one of the best Cb’s in the league at present. 

But to sum it up Lincoln are 2nd and Connor Mcgrandles is classified as a top 5 L1 midfielder according to the stats 

I think you're confusing recognising the names of former Charlton players with knowing how they're actually doing in L1. Alex Mitchell, who isn't a top player but is definitely above average in a decent team, isn't anywhere near one of the best centre backs in the league this season. The only metric he's measured highly in is clearances per 90 where he's 4th. He's 59th for blocks, 120th for interceptions and 210th for tackles. He's not even the highest rated Mitchell in most of these stats let alone one of the top centre backs. McGrandles to be fair to him was a very good L1 midfielder when we signed him, at which point we broke him. He was then good on loan at Cambridge and is back to being good at Lincoln again which isn't that surprising. 

You're out of your mind if you think because Conor McGrandles is having a good season that it's the worst L1 ever though. Football in the lower leagues has moved on lightyears technically and physically from where it was before, some of these players are on a different planet to the cloggers that were in the league in 2010. That's why we were able to get to a Play-Off semi-final with the likes of Dave Mooney, Miguel Llera, Akpo Sodje and Gary Borrowdale, a player Parkinson literally paid out of his pocket to loan in because we were so desperate. Some of the Hartlepool, Stockport and Tranmere teams we played back then were so bad it was almost criminal and the overall standard minus a couple of big teams every season who jetted out of there with 90+ points was so poor.

daveroan

I think it's time to analyse where we will be at the beginning of next season , our second in the championship.

 When the loans are gone we would be left with a 'first' team of 

Kaminski
Sichenji Jones Bell
Ramsay Coventry Edwards
Carey
Leaburn Godden

This obviously needs streghthening so we can avoid struggling and need a seious enhancement in ability in order to improve.

It is obvious that Jones does not trust Kelman (who doesn't suit Jone's system) and Campbell is too eratic to start. 

So who makes up a 25 man squad? Which elite players are bought to strengthen the team for 2026/2027? Certainly another defender, a midfield general, back up for left wingback / left sided defender and a striker.

These 3/4 would be added to a squad of 

Mannion Docherty Costello Knibbs Kanu  Fullah Campbell then add in 3 or 4 elite newcomers that total 21 out of the 25 so who is left? Z Mitchell Gough Burke .

So do we try to resign Dyke, Coady and Clarke? Are they elite? Or do week seek an improvement on them?

Do the following get sold, loaned or just let go ?

 Dixon, Asiimwe, A Mitchell, Berry,Taylor,Ahadme,Gillesphy,Oalafe,Apter? And what about the under21s who are now getting past playing in the under21s? Kai Enslin, Josh, Bowyer Mbamba etc. They are rarely going to make the squad let alone the match day bench. 

And all this has to be done while writing off millions from purchasing Ahadme, Kelman,Oalafe,Apter and then having to invest in either better contracts for Dyke Coady and Clarke and multi million transfer fees for elite newcomers.

Mbick can raise £5m from Brighton and there is money to come from transfers of Lookman and (at last) Gomez to Italy! But our lovely owners are going to have to  dig deep to make CAFC more competitive in the Championship next season aren't they!

What do you think?

th0rryy

When you're the playoff winner from L1 and you're trying to establish yourself in the Championship, bringing in players that are oven ready for the level is incredibly difficult. Players with the experience in this league usually don't want to risk exposing themselves to a relegation battle from day one and know that they are almost certainly going to have to take a pay cut to fit within the wage structure of a newly promoted club. Plus, we have a manager that is very demanding in the exact way he wants things.

So, we took the option of signing as much Championship experience as we could - Kaminski, JRC, Bell and Burke (plus Bree on loan), whilst investing the bulk of our spend on supposedly hungry, on the up L1 players that we thought could make the step up. Those L1 players were Kelman, Olaofe and Apter, plus Carey and Knibbs. Only Carey has made significant impact, whilst Kelman and Knibbs have had stuttering impact and Apter and Olaofe got shipped out in January.

I'll start from worst to best (excluding Carey, who has already proven himself imo):

• Olaofe was a bit of a punt on a lad that had just one season in L1 and had scored 20 in L2 the season before. Technically, the lad isn't on the level for the Championship. Control, positioning and movement just isn't good enough to compete and he had limited impact. Bar that goal at Bramall Lane, his impact had been very limited. Never did enough to make him feel like he had to start. I think that L1 is probably the cap on his ability, as I never saw enough impact in our games - however (and I'll repeat this later), playing up front for Charlton is a tough, thankless job and you need to be very, very good and have very particular attributes to be useful. I doubt he'll ever get any more games in the Championship.
• Apter was an odd signing. A winger by trade that NJ clearly thought he could convert into a WB in the same mould as Thierry Small. However, Small could defend when and Apter could not. I think it's a lot easier to develop a traditional FB/WB into a more attacking WB/Winger, than do the reverse. As NJ never plays wingers in his starting systems and Apter was destroyed in that ill-fated game vs Southampton at The Valley, it was never going to work past that point. Always felt that Apter gave NJ some lip at some point too, as he fell so far out of favour we didn't even bring him on vs the 9 men of Sheff Utd. Experiment that went wrong, but I feel like within a system with wingers, he might be able compete at the level. However, I don't see him coming back to us and staying while NJ remains as manager. Could see a promoted L1 side look to bring him in IF he plays well at Bolton and they play with wingers.
• Kelman was clearly unfit / struggling with injury during those early games where he started every week. Then the injury set him back - after which, he started to look better, scored a couple of goals and you expected him to kick on. NJ then continued to fiddle with the attacking options, breaking the flow and not really giving him much rhythm. Dykes came in, Leaburn was in and out, Campbell moved around from CF to WB, Godden back for a couple - he had little to no consistency.  As I said while talking about Olaofe, it's so hard playing up front for Charlton right now - it's largely hoofball and flick-ons/hold-up play for Carey/Campbell. That is not the way Kelman flourished in L1. Watch the goals for Orient last year - so many low, drilled crosses and through balls. We don't play to his strengths at all, and he's struggled. I can absolutely emphasise with a reduced press from him, because all he is doing is chasing defenders for 90% of a game. I haven't given up on him, but again, the style of play doesn't currently suit him. Technically, I think he can perform in this league, but the lack of wide players feeding the kind of crosses he wants and midfielders looking to feed him. Concerned his frustration will annoy NJ and he'll get moved on at a loss, back to a L1 side.

I'll bucket Knibbs in as one that has also stuttered, but honestly, he's as much as a victim to Carey's success as anything else. Difficult to assess, but he's likely only going to continue as a backup player while Carey remains in that 10 role and scoring goals.

Majority of the L1 punts didn't end up positive, barring one that may end up being our PotS. One from five isn't a good return for what we spent, but the goals from that one will likely be the difference between staying up and not. I still think we can dip into L1 to sign players, but probably not ones that are relied on to start. They need to have stood out technically in L1 and can fit, like-for-like, into the system NJ employs. I think there are hidden gems in there, but most players struggle with the transition. Of our squad from last year, I would say that only LJones has made the step up comfortably. It's a difficult step up that many players struggle with - you don't get many players that sign from L1 and then make 15+ starts in the Championship.

Blucher

Addictedoldgit said:

cfgs said:

If we get two more mobile central midfielders to compliment Coventry and Carey, then we will be more secure through the middle.  One has to be like Kinsella, able to play cute passes and be cultured as well as working for the team.

Agree, the whole team would improve big time with an input of two championship standard midfielders.
A Mark Kinsella level of quality, yes please!!

Or even a Keith Jones...

Chunes

Alwaysneil said:

The club has pretty much owned up to that mistake tho

I missed that. What did they say?

ElfsborgAddick

After the panning Scott received after his signings, he'll be laughing his tits off with our current list of failures.