Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

EFL Playoffs 25/26 (Saints booted out of final and given 4 point deduction - pg34)

1…4748495153

Comments

  • Charlton and on
    Charlton and on Posts: 1,135
    Hull's complaint is hollow. They've had training and preparation for a game.  Middlesbrough players would have been returning from holiday yesterday.
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,503
    CharltonManor1966 said:
    I just cannot see how any of their players can successfully sue the club for potential loss of earnings when they still had a game to play and even then, only if their current contract stipulated a promotion bonus.
    Would love to see it though and I suppose their agents might use it as leverage to get them out sooner?
    Total mess for the club!
    It's probably an absolute nothingburger and won't go anywhere legally but I suspect the more media savvy of the players (or maybe their agents) have used this as a chance to draw the line between them and the management in the eyes of the public/fans - "we're with you, we had nothing to do with it and we got screwed over too."

  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 37,279
    edited 6:07AM
    SDAddick said:
    EugenesAxe said:
    SDAddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    Gravesend_Addick said:
    Good.  

    I think the Southampton manager will go within the next few days now

    I would imagine he has gone already.
    Yeah as I said earlier there's no way he can stay. He's almost certain to face a ban, and rightly so.

    He's a promising young manager, I suspect he'll pop up somewhere on the continent. But as I've said before as well, it's such a huge risk for such a finite reward.
    Does he appear promising because he’s a cheat?
    I don't think you can put that much down to watching the oppositions' training sessions. Especially if it only happened three times (IF it only happened three times). I believe Southampton had the best record in the league from the time he took over. I highly, highly doubt that's all down to spying on the opposition. Southampton have good footballers who were playing really poorly until he took over, and played really well after. I just can't imagine that's down to cheating. I think he got a good side playing very well, and I suspect the benefits from watching opposition training sessions were marginal.

    It's why I keep saying it's such a finite reward for such a major risk.
    I agree with this. I'm sure the spying helped with some things or they wouldn't have done it, but there's no way they only did well because of it.

    Let's not forget that pre-season they were title favourites behind Ipswich, they do have a good squad and were only in a mess because Will Still was pretty hopeless.

    They proved how good they were in the FA Cup, beating Fulham and Arsenal and only losing late on to Man City. I'm pretty sure that if any Championship side spied on Arsenal's training sessions all week and even got their team sheet days in advance, they'd probably still lose.

    Eckert was in charge for 40 games and they failed to win 15 of them, so it's not as if the spying meant they won every week.
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 18,648
    Charlton and on said:
    Hull's complaint is hollow. They've had training and preparation for a game.  Middlesbrough players would have been returning from holiday yesterday.
    Boro have been training pretty much as normal with the expectation of playing Hull
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 11,325
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Put ourselves in Hull's shoes. Would we rather play Southampton or Boro. Yes, exactly.
    If we had reached the final on merit I wouldn’t give a shit who we played, especially if one of those teams had to cheat to get there and the other didn’t win either of their semi-final matches. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 51,093
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 11,325
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    If I had to take a wild guess, my initial and continuing thoughts on that 4 point deduction is that it sets the bar if any other games are subsequently found to have been similarly spied upon.
  • MrBurns
    MrBurns Posts: 1,788
    Charlton and on said:
    Hull's complaint is hollow. They've had training and preparation for a game.  Middlesbrough players would have been returning from holiday yesterday.
    The Boro players have been training still and haven't gone on Holiday
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 51,093
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    If I had to take a wild guess, my initial and continuing thoughts on that 4 point deduction is that it sets the bar if any other games are subsequently found to have been similarly spied upon.
    Four seems a weird number though in my opinion. Surely more logical to impose points deductions in multiples of three.
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 33,786
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    If I had to take a wild guess, my initial and continuing thoughts on that 4 point deduction is that it sets the bar if any other games are subsequently found to have been similarly spied upon.
    Four seems a weird number though in my opinion. Surely more logical to impose points deductions in multiples of three.
    I think it was two points each for the Oxford and Ipswich spying. The play off game was seen as a separate competition for which the punishment was being kicked out.

  • Sponsored links:



  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 51,093
    LargeAddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    If I had to take a wild guess, my initial and continuing thoughts on that 4 point deduction is that it sets the bar if any other games are subsequently found to have been similarly spied upon.
    Four seems a weird number though in my opinion. Surely more logical to impose points deductions in multiples of three.
    I think it was two points each for the Oxford and Ipswich spying. The play off game was seen as a separate competition for which the punishment was being kicked out.
    That makes sense but I’d still suggest that three points for every game found cheating would be more logical.
  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,218
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    LargeAddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    If I had to take a wild guess, my initial and continuing thoughts on that 4 point deduction is that it sets the bar if any other games are subsequently found to have been similarly spied upon.
    Four seems a weird number though in my opinion. Surely more logical to impose points deductions in multiples of three.
    I think it was two points each for the Oxford and Ipswich spying. The play off game was seen as a separate competition for which the punishment was being kicked out.
    That makes sense but I’d still suggest that three points for every game found cheating would be more logical.
    And the team they played be given 3 points.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,693
    iainment said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    LargeAddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    If I had to take a wild guess, my initial and continuing thoughts on that 4 point deduction is that it sets the bar if any other games are subsequently found to have been similarly spied upon.
    Four seems a weird number though in my opinion. Surely more logical to impose points deductions in multiples of three.
    I think it was two points each for the Oxford and Ipswich spying. The play off game was seen as a separate competition for which the punishment was being kicked out.
    That makes sense but I’d still suggest that three points for every game found cheating would be more logical.
    And the team they played be given 3 points.

    Possibly - that would be two more points for Ipswich and none for Oxford, and would have changed nothing.
    Very convenient that Southampton admitted to those two games.
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 11,078
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    If I had to take a wild guess, my initial and continuing thoughts on that 4 point deduction is that it sets the bar if any other games are subsequently found to have been similarly spied upon.
    Four seems a weird number though in my opinion. Surely more logical to impose points deductions in multiples of three.
    To be fair on the efl, they only learnt the 2 x table this year! With a summer of revision and hard work, maybe next seam they can move onto their 3 x table
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,762
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    SDAddick said:
    EugenesAxe said:
    SDAddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    Gravesend_Addick said:
    Good.  

    I think the Southampton manager will go within the next few days now

    I would imagine he has gone already.
    Yeah as I said earlier there's no way he can stay. He's almost certain to face a ban, and rightly so.

    He's a promising young manager, I suspect he'll pop up somewhere on the continent. But as I've said before as well, it's such a huge risk for such a finite reward.
    Does he appear promising because he’s a cheat?
    I don't think you can put that much down to watching the oppositions' training sessions. Especially if it only happened three times (IF it only happened three times). I believe Southampton had the best record in the league from the time he took over. I highly, highly doubt that's all down to spying on the opposition. Southampton have good footballers who were playing really poorly until he took over, and played really well after. I just can't imagine that's down to cheating. I think he got a good side playing very well, and I suspect the benefits from watching opposition training sessions were marginal.

    It's why I keep saying it's such a finite reward for such a major risk.
    I agree with this. I'm sure the spying helped with some things or they wouldn't have done it, but there's no way they only did well because of it.

    Let's not forget that pre-season they were title favourites behind Ipswich, they do have a good squad and were only in a mess because Will Still was pretty hopeless.

    They proved how good they were in the FA Cup, beating Fulham and Arsenal and only losing late on to Man City. I'm pretty sure that if any Championship side spied on Arsenal's training sessions all week and even got their team sheet days in advance, they'd probably still lose.

    Eckert was in charge for 40 games and they failed to win 15 of them, so it's not as if the spying meant they won every week.
    Agree re the FA Cup but they started the season very badly and had a massive change in form with the new manager. Was that down to the new manager of because that's when the spying started? Probably a bit of both and impossible to determine how much of which.

    As for the players suing the club, had it not been for the spying, then they might not have been in the play offs - if spying is cheating because it gives you an advantage, then without out it they'd have had less points.......
  • jose
    jose Posts: 1,293
    I am afraid that even though an argument of sorts can be constructed,
     Hull don’t really have much of a case regarding what they were preparing for.
    They’re in the final, and should get on with playing that game of football without a get out option in the back of their minds.

    We will never know now, but looking back there was a surreal unexpected quality to that first half at home to Southampton, it was so out of place at the time, but I put it down to them being ex-premiership. Maybe there was shenanigans.
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 11,325
    It’ll be interesting to see how much sympathy their players and fans get, or not, from other clubs fans when the season starts again….


  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,762
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    It’ll be interesting to see how much sympathy their players and fans get, or not, from other clubs fans when the season starts again….


    I think it might be mentioned once or twice by away supporters - the first Pompey game will be interesting!
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 7,319
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    It’ll be interesting to see how much sympathy their players and fans get, or not, from other clubs fans when the season starts again….


    I would suggest it will lean towards “or not”.

  • Sponsored links:



  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,602
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I have a feeling that the EFL will want to draw a line under this and move on very quickly. Any in depth enquiry would be like opening a very large can of worms. Unless someone who loses their job at Southampton comes forward and spills more beans I think this will be over. I’m glad of the appeal verdict but I still think the four points deduction next season is way too low. With eight playoff places up for grabs it’s hard to see Southampton not getting one of them. The points deduction should have made that likelihood very difficult. 
    I don’t think it will be over quickly. There now needs to be an external enquiry in to which individuals orchestrated or were aware of the cheating. 

    Was it the manager and one analyst, or all of the analysis team, were the board or even owners aware. Southampton’s poor responses since this was made public shows they are not prepared to accept how serious this is. Personally I don’t think them sacking the manager (presume they will have to do this as doubt players will want to play for him) should be the end, and FA and/or EFL should continue finding out exactly what happened and who was involved. 
  • stevexreeve
    stevexreeve Posts: 1,436
    Given the seriousness that ELF have taken the spying, surely they should conduct a full investigation into the matter.

    My guess is that within a few hours they would uncover emails showing
    spying went on at at least 20 games.

    So a 40 points deduction is appropriate.

    That would throw throw the club into league one and administration!

    Goodbye and good riddance.


  • DamoNorthStand
    DamoNorthStand Posts: 12,261
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/crmplprldl8o

    Full investigation.

    Massive points penalty surely incoming.
  • DamoNorthStand
    DamoNorthStand Posts: 12,261
    I would like to know if the players were aware of it.

    If they were - I dont see how they can be showered with sympathy. They knew about it and were willingly cheating if thats the case.
  • jose
    jose Posts: 1,293
    I wonder what will become of that poor internet lad who did the spying, presumably under instruction.
    He will be tainted by this backstory for life. The Southampton players might consider having a whip round and giving the young man a few million quid to re start his life.
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,503
    DamoNorthStand said:
    I would like to know if the players were aware of it.

    If they were - I dont see how they can be showered with sympathy. They knew about it and were willingly cheating if thats the case.
    I genuinely don't think they were. There would be absolutely no sense or reason for them to have been told and if training was otherwise fairly normal they'd not really have any cause to suspect otherwise. 

    Even if they train certain routines or styles against that week's opposition they'd assume that was information gained "legitimately" from observing games.
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,762
    DamoNorthStand said:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/crmplprldl8o

    Full investigation.

    Massive points penalty surely incoming.
    Were we just extra rubbish in the first half against them at home?

    Significant change in the second half
  • peterreeves
    peterreeves Posts: 1,187
    Depending on how deep the investigation goes.... I think the points deduction will be more than 4.....and personally it should be. 

  • Ducktapeshoerepairs
    Ducktapeshoerepairs Posts: 1,068
    Braziliance said:
    The football romantic in me wants the play-off winners to be: Boro, Bolton/Bradford and then Grimsby/Notts County. Those are your biggest clubs of the lot and 'deserve' the promotions on club stature.

    I think realistically, it's gonna be Saints or Millwall, Stockport and then I reckon Salford.

    For us, we want it to be Southampton and Stevenage. Get one of the parachute payments teams gone, who let's be honest, will only start next season better, and Stevenage who are absolutely pony and will be right down there. 
    So the biggest clubs ‘deserve’ promotion. That’s not romantic in the slightest 
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 18,648
    DamoNorthStand said:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/crmplprldl8o

    Full investigation.

    Massive points penalty surely incoming.
    Crucially an FA investigation which means they can charge individuals. I don’t know if they can impose a sporting sanction on the club or not 

Categories

“Marketplace”