Practically, I can see they could have benefits, and the way things are going we might all end up having plenty of these things by default (drivers licence, national insurance, medical records, passports) that might make sense to merge into one. But forcing everyone to pay through the nose for a bit of plastic that probably won't work anyway (governments and IT schemes = recipe for disaster) doesn't seem to be the way to go. It also just feels wrong, and I don't think I could trust any government to run it properly.
No issues with it, though from the reported costs of implementing the proposed system, it does seem an incredibly expensive way of going about it. I carry an ID card with me everyday already. It's called a Driving License.
With the new technologies now and those that look like coming in the near future, would it not be better to wait a few years and see what can be implemented utilising fingerprints/eye scans/DNA - far more difficult to falsify.
I can see one day, all babies being installed with a microchip once they're born which can be updated remotely with all kinds of data - within 80 years, that would cover virtually the whole population. I mean they do it with pets now.
I would carry one. Just renewing my CRB check and have to provide three means of identification. One standard form of ID for everyone would make sense and might prevent so low level crime such as credit card misuse BUT could it be made to work as the Inspector says and would it actually solve any serious problems such as terrorism. If someone can build a bomb they can forge an ID card.
[cite] Addickted:[/cite]No issues with it, though from the reported costs of implementing the proposed system, it does seem an incredibly expensive way of going about it. I carry an ID card with me everyday already. It's called a Driving License. quote]
Not everyone drives.
You just know that there'll be technical problems, a massive cost over-run and that we are creating bureaucracy.
Can't we spend the time and money on something of actual benefit to the nation? Like schools and hospitals...
[cite] stanmoreaddick:[/cite]Absolutely for- As Henry says- one universal form of ID. No if's, no buts
But why do we need them? If I want to open a bank account I can use a passport or some form of existing ID. This infringes our civil liberties. If I'm not doing anything wrong then why should I have to prove who I am?
[cite] Eltham_addick:[/cite]if they are free then why would anyone object to carrying one ??...unless they had something to hide ?.
They won't be free, well maybe at point of distribution, but our tax revenues are going to be used to fund the project and administer it. There are better uses for the money.
There'll also be new criminal offences created "refusing to show ID", people being fined because they were stopped and had left it at home that day etc and then having to go to the police station within a few days to prove your identity. All this is too big brother-ish for me.
[cite] Eltham_addick:[/cite]if they are free then why would anyone object to carrying one ??...unless they had something to hide ?.
They won't be free, well maybe at point of distribution, but our tax revenues are going to be used to fund the project and administer it. There are better uses for the money.
There'll also be new criminal offences created "refusing to show ID", people being fined because they were stopped and had left it at home that day etc and then having to go to the police station within a few days to prove your identity. All this is too big brother-ish for me.
So if you were fined for leaving it home, how many times do you think you'd forget again?
If OB stop you in your car and you don't have your documentation, you're given a 'producer', no reason why this cant be done with ID Cards.
The cost to implement may be expensive, but how much time money and effort would it save institutions like the Police force, NHS, DSS, Inland Revenue, etc, etc?
The cost to implement may be expensive, but how much time money and effort would it save institutions like the Police force, NHS, DSS, Inland Revenue, etc, etc?
How much money would it cost to administer day by day, though? The financial savings could be outweighed by the costs of running the damn thing, especially if it's hived off to someone's dodgy mates, which is what tends to happen with government ID schemes.
Oystercard's a different matter - you don't have to register your details and it's just a wallet, basically. The savings there are enormous, because you're upgrading clapped-out old ticketing systems and whatnot, and it's only there for one purpose - exchanging money. And if my movements being tracked means there's more 53s home in the evening, then good.
If we're being bounced into this because of terrorism then funding immigration/ customs/ anti-terrorism services properly would be a better idea than this.
[cite] stanmoreaddick:[/cite]You can go to a tube station with a tenner and say i'll have an oyster card please and you'll get one with £7 credit- no need to register it.
My eldest lad (19) has got himself a prov driving licence for ID even though he doesn't drive. He used to take his passport out with him to get in clubs etc prior to that.
I would say that everyone should have, or be able to produce a recognised form of ID. Just make it law and stick your human rights where the sun doesn't shine. If you don't like it, foook off.
admin charge- refunded when you hand back your card apparently-
But then you pay £1.50 for a zone 1 journey rather than a soon to be £4. And also saves you dropping all your change when your half cut getting a bus back!
I have no ideological objections to an ID card, but it will be expensive to obtain and given government IT project history it will not be that reliable, especially as they have already admitted they wont be testing all areas of the system.
People should be honest and then there would not be a call for an ID card. What's wrong with just being asked "is that yourself" and replying "it is".....?
I am against, not because I have anything to hide, but because we have traditionally had freedom of movement in this country without ID cards other than in wartime.
It makes me sick to hear politicians on the one hand telling us that we must not allow terrorists to affect how we conduct our daily lives or "the terrorists have won" whilst in the next breath they seek to impose ID cards upon us under the guise of preventing terrorism.
I'm fed up with the mentality of penalising the decent majority for the crimes of the minority.
One of the excuses trotted out for never seeing coppers on the street anymore is "intelligence led policing". Ok it maybe politically incorrect to say this but if terrorists are Muslims let's have intelligence led policing and target known radical Mosques. If muggers in a given area are predominantly Afro Caribean then target where they are likely to hang out.
It aint rocket science. Destroying the freedoms of the majority will not prevent the crimes of the minority.
As far as I am concerned ID cards will provide a single point of failure, i.e. if your identity is stolen using them what then? Another new ID system to deal with that problem? Maybe we should use them in conjunction with another form of ID...oh, hang on a minute...
If they really want to deal with terrorism effectively perhaps a better foriegn policy might protect us more than ID cards would?
[cite] PeakeysRocket:[/cite]fake the id card and all 9 points are void and the only ones to benefit are a right wing government,criminals and terrorists.
why should i rush to pay more taxes for my family and me for a system that has absolutely no benefit to me?
1) Biometric ID cards are (allegedly) impossible to fake
2) I was always led to believe that right wing Governments reduce taxation for individuals
Comments
Practically, I can see they could have benefits, and the way things are going we might all end up having plenty of these things by default (drivers licence, national insurance, medical records, passports) that might make sense to merge into one. But forcing everyone to pay through the nose for a bit of plastic that probably won't work anyway (governments and IT schemes = recipe for disaster) doesn't seem to be the way to go. It also just feels wrong, and I don't think I could trust any government to run it properly.
With the new technologies now and those that look like coming in the near future, would it not be better to wait a few years and see what can be implemented utilising fingerprints/eye scans/DNA - far more difficult to falsify.
I can see one day, all babies being installed with a microchip once they're born which can be updated remotely with all kinds of data - within 80 years, that would cover virtually the whole population. I mean they do it with pets now.
I mean he still has my backing and all, but there is no way I am walking around with a picture of Dowie in my pocket.
I would carry one. Just renewing my CRB check and have to provide three means of identification. One standard form of ID for everyone would make sense and might prevent so low level crime such as credit card misuse BUT could it be made to work as the Inspector says and would it actually solve any serious problems such as terrorism. If someone can build a bomb they can forge an ID card.
But why do we need them? If I want to open a bank account I can use a passport or some form of existing ID. This infringes our civil liberties. If I'm not doing anything wrong then why should I have to prove who I am?
They won't be free, well maybe at point of distribution, but our tax revenues are going to be used to fund the project and administer it. There are better uses for the money.
There'll also be new criminal offences created "refusing to show ID", people being fined because they were stopped and had left it at home that day etc and then having to go to the police station within a few days to prove your identity. All this is too big brother-ish for me.
That's a ridiculous reason for not implementing ID Cards Peakey.
So if you were fined for leaving it home, how many times do you think you'd forget again?
If OB stop you in your car and you don't have your documentation, you're given a 'producer', no reason why this cant be done with ID Cards.
The cost to implement may be expensive, but how much time money and effort would it save institutions like the Police force, NHS, DSS, Inland Revenue, etc, etc?
How much money would it cost to administer day by day, though? The financial savings could be outweighed by the costs of running the damn thing, especially if it's hived off to someone's dodgy mates, which is what tends to happen with government ID schemes.
Oystercard's a different matter - you don't have to register your details and it's just a wallet, basically. The savings there are enormous, because you're upgrading clapped-out old ticketing systems and whatnot, and it's only there for one purpose - exchanging money. And if my movements being tracked means there's more 53s home in the evening, then good.
If we're being bounced into this because of terrorism then funding immigration/ customs/ anti-terrorism services properly would be a better idea than this.
To my understanding, this isn't true
You can go to a tube station with a tenner and say i'll have an oyster card please and you'll get one with £7 credit- no need to register it.
So what happens with the other £3?
I would say that everyone should have, or be able to produce a recognised form of ID. Just make it law and stick your human rights where the sun doesn't shine. If you don't like it, foook off.
admin charge- refunded when you hand back your card apparently-
But then you pay £1.50 for a zone 1 journey rather than a soon to be £4. And also saves you dropping all your change when your half cut getting a bus back!
God- even i think i'm sad for knowing this! ;-)
It makes me sick to hear politicians on the one hand telling us that we must not allow terrorists to affect how we conduct our daily lives or "the terrorists have won" whilst in the next breath they seek to impose ID cards upon us under the guise of preventing terrorism.
I'm fed up with the mentality of penalising the decent majority for the crimes of the minority.
One of the excuses trotted out for never seeing coppers on the street anymore is "intelligence led policing". Ok it maybe politically incorrect to say this but if terrorists are Muslims let's have intelligence led policing and target known radical Mosques. If muggers in a given area are predominantly Afro Caribean then target where they are likely to hang out.
It aint rocket science. Destroying the freedoms of the majority will not prevent the crimes of the minority.
Rant over!!
1) help protect cardholders against identity theft and fraud
2) provide a reliable way of checking the identity of people in positions of trust
3) make travelling in Europe easier
4) provide a secure way of applying for financial products and making financial transactions, including those made over the internet
5) offer a secure and convenient way of proving your age
6) help to confirm your eligibility for public services and benefits – and reduce fraud relating to these services and benefits
7) help in the prevention of organised crime and terrorism
8) help combat illegal working and reduce illegal immigration to the UK
9) allow the police more quickly to identify suspects and people they arrest.
If they really want to deal with terrorism effectively perhaps a better foriegn policy might protect us more than ID cards would?
So only a right wing Govenrment would want to:-
1) help protect cardholders against identity theft and fraud
2) provide a reliable way of checking the identity of people in positions of trust
3) make travelling in Europe easier
4) provide a secure way of applying for financial products and making financial transactions, including those made over the internet
5) offer a secure and convenient way of proving your age
6) help to confirm your eligibility for public services and benefits – and reduce fraud relating to these services and benefits
7) help in the prevention of organised crime and terrorism
8) help combat illegal working and reduce illegal immigration to the UK
9) allow the police more quickly to identify suspects and people they arrest?
If only I'd knwon that sooner.
Anyway, who were the right wingers in Rwanada? the Tutsis or the Hutus?
*Home time - bye chaps and chapettes*
1) Biometric ID cards are (allegedly) impossible to fake
2) I was always led to believe that right wing Governments reduce taxation for individuals