[cite]Posted By: KenTred[/cite]So two in 35 years lol
yes everyone is entitled to their opinion. Obviously there must be some charlton fans who admire boothroyd and pulis. i just think it is a sad indictment of Pardew that that is what Charlton have succumbed to!
A sad indictment? Settle down Beavis!
Each to their own I guess? Its also fair to say though, that there have been plenty of times this season were we needed to be a bit more more direct, rather than having a whole lot of possession & pretty, pretty passing football, but not a lot of end product.
I'm not saying by any means that I'm an advocater of the long ball game, but I certainly don't mind if a long throw, punt(however hopeful), clearance, etc, results in us getting a goal, or out of danger if need be.
The sad fact is though, that we are not going to be able to play our own brand of football in every moment of every match, especially against the purveyors of the slightly more physical, & direct brands of football. Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire, & some games are going to be a bit more uglier than others. As long as there are 3 points at the end of the 90 minutes, or a hard fought point, from a passionate & dedicated team performance, I'm personally not going to argue.
Great result today boys! Well done! Keep up the good work!!
If we could win every game by playing beautiful, free flowing football, passing to feet, creating those neat little triangles that the coaches talk about then fine, there'd be no need for long ball tactics.
In the real world however over-reliance on one method of playing football creates predictability, which makes us easy to defend against. It makes sense to mix up the play a little, be unpredictable and perhaps sometimes be a little ugly.
I honestly think that if we try and play beautiful football against the lumpers and clumpers of this league, then we will lose (witness Scunny, Colchester, Blackpool etc.). Against these types we have to beat them at their own game in an artless, attritional game - its the result that matters. I don't care if we score from a long throw as long as we score - this has actually given us another attacking threat and I welcome it. If we have to dig in and win by any means to get out of this league, then so be it.
We can play the beautiful game against other footballing teams - its horses for courses. It has been a hard lesson to learn, but hopefully we understand this league and the teams in it a bit better now.
BTW - to save time, can I post a comment to be used after the next defeat along the lines of "worst team ever....worst manager ever....disgusted that we are not the Brazil of the CCC...moon on a stick....repeat ad nauseum....at least until the next win"
Some really good posts here along with a few not so insightful ones. I have to say that Ive often envied teams who have had a player who can effectively give you a free kick each time we get a throw inside the opponents half. It doesnt mean we have resorted to the long ball game, however like some have said here....thats something we have to try to emulate against teams who arent as technically gifted as ours. Long may Halfords huge throw ins continue....it got us the lead yesterday, and we got three points...job done.
comments like the last one are so sad. but hey if that is the type of football you want (I suppose all styles look the same when atching internet match updates etc) then i am afraid that is what Pards seems to want to give you. Make a big offer for Delap in the summer and you will all be in dreamland!
Shame you have emulated others with a personal attack. And Im sad? Football is about opinions as is this forum...just because someone doesnt share your view doesnt make them wrong eh? And mate....Im not in Oz and have probably seen as many games this season as most on here...so get informed before you make a sweeping accusations.
no personal attack intended, apologies if offence was taken. i just find long ball sad. most people dont attend many away games so as i say dont mind the style as they cant see it!
Ok Ken, no problem...I think the sad bit was what tipped your post over the edge. Onwards and upwards and we have to accept that to get out of this division its not always going to be pretty. Lets get back where we belong and then concentrate on playing the prettier stuff which most of us will of course prefer to see.
We all want nice football, but personally I want out of the CCC first - I don't really care how it is done to be honest. Nice football and success would be lovely, but its going to take a long time to achieve, if ever (each season away from the prem we lose both momentum and money - its either a quick return or we can join the likes of big clubs like Sheff Wed, Notts Forest, Wolves etc.) who don't look any nearer to a prem return than Leeds Utd.
Admittedly I understand how some will find it hard to swallow when we play agricultural football and still lose, but it sweetens the pill if we get 3 points, surely?
well curbs' 4-5-1 boring/stale football wasn't good enough to keep everyone happy in the end but it's only now when we're using the same tactics in a poorer league that maybe the results justify the means as to how their achieved...
yeah we'd all love to play like brazil 1970 or arsenal 2008 but it's not realistic so if we have to grind to go up and grind to stay up then i'm all for it b4 we try and push on to the next level
Curbs also let the squad go as turgid as my unwashed pants.
Circumstance can dicate the shape of a team too. If Pardew uses 451 to keep things tight away from home or to stifle marauding all out attack sides then fine, but Curbs carried on using it even when it was well and truly sussed out by nearly everyone who played us.
Continuity is important, but variety is the spice of life.
Besides, as MCS says Curbs is West Ham now and therefore not our friend
[cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]If Pardew uses 451 to keep things tight away from home or to stifle marauding all out attack sides then fine, but Curbs carried on using it even when it was well and truly sussed out by nearly everyone who played us.
i always thought the premiership was a tougher league but hey-ho that's just my opinion
There is a lot of revisionism of the last 18 months of the Curbishley era, he was an excellent manager, but he lost interest in that 18 months, and left a shockingly poor squad.
Now Dowie brought badly, and Pardew had too much to do, but Curbs didn't leave much footballing wise
The Prem is a joke. It is a global joke. Sure there are wonderful players. Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Arsenal's lot etc etc. You see some wonderful football played. Breath taking at times. But when do see a decent match? An exciting game? Especially involving your team, in our case CAFC.
You don't. As a supporter of a lower half team, lower 3rd in our case - when were in the Prem obviously- the actual matches were crap, certainly were in the last 4 seasons. There is the odd exception but generally the majority of our maches, particually at home, in our last 4 years in the Prem were awful games. Either complete thrashings or ground out draws or narrow victories.
You could look at the fixtures at the begining of the season and near enough judge the result.
I HATED our last 2/3 years in the Prem, excluding our run in after Christmas last year. Absolutely hated it.
The Prem is for 3 teams only and one of a further 4/5.
This season look at Derby, Bolton, Wigan, Brum, Fulham, Reading, Sunderland etc. Pure crap. For those that survive it will be the same next season, joined by Stoke or Bristol C or maybe us. All of those teams will go down in the next 3/4 years. Fact.
I hate the Prem, clubs like us a just cannon fodder. I like to see top players live but not just to murder us.
We may need promotiom from a business point of view but to me that is irrelevent. Football is not my business, it is a passtime to me. I want to be entertained and see a decent match. By that I mean two sides where there is not too much between them.
We have lost and won against teams this year quite comfortably - eg Blackpool, that is what I want.
The Premiership, and all it stands for stinks.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]There is a lot of revisionism of the last 18 months of the Curbishley era, he was an excellent manager, but he lost interest in that 18 months, and left a shockingly poor squad.
Now Dowie brought badly, and Pardew had too much to do, but Curbs didn't leave much footballing wise
I agree with much of this but did Curbs leave a crock of sh*t or did the board not give him the funds to strengthen? Was this lack of funds the real reason why he lost interest, I suppose thinking that he had taken things as far as he could? It's one of those speculative Sunday evening thoughts but what if Curbs was given the £11M war chest, would he have been so quick out the door?
In my view and I have said it a few times, I think that Curbs relationship with RM and the Board and his husbandry of the clubs finances from the old Upton Park days left him psychologically unable to twist RM/the Boards arm to really stretch the transfer budget. Dowie comes along and all of a sudden they done the lot and half of next years as well.
I don't think Curbs refusing to sign the contract extension helped, I suspect Murray told him money was available, but Curbs had done his time and wanted to go.
He didn't spend the Parker money exceptionally well, if that's anything to go by
It's all ifs and buts at the end of the day and hey, he ain't out manager any more.
I notice a lot of Hammers fans are unhappy with Curbs - Oh to be in their position with the luxury of moaning from their perch safe in the premier league for another year - ho hum.......
[quote][cite]Posted By: DJ Davey Dave[/cite]The Prem is a joke. It is a global joke. Sure there are wonderful players. Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Arsenal's lot etc etc. You see some wonderful football played. Breath taking at times. But when do see a decent match? An exciting game? Especially involving your team, in our case CAFC. You don't. As a supporter of a lower half team, lower 3rd in our case - when were in the Prem obviously- the actual matches were crap, certainly were in the last 4 seasons. There is the odd exception but generally the majority of our maches, particually at home, in our last 4 years in the Prem were awful games. Either complete thrashings or ground out draws or narrow victories. You could look at the fixtures at the begining of the season and near enough judge the result. I HATED our last 2/3 years in the Prem, excluding our run in after Christmas last year. Absolutely hated it. The Prem is for 3 teams only and one of a further 4/5. This season look at Derby, Bolton, Wigan, Brum, Fulham, Reading, Sunderland etc. Pure crap. For those that survive it will be the same next season, joined by Stoke or Bristol C or maybe us. All of those teams will go down in the next 3/4 years. Fact. I hate the Prem, clubs like us a just cannon fodder. I like to see top players live but not just to murder us. We may need promotiom from a business point of view but to me that is irrelevent. Football is not my business, it is a passtime to me. I want to be entertained and see a decent match. By that I mean two sides where there is not too much between them. We have lost and won against teams this year quite comfortably - eg Blackpool, that is what I want. The Premiership, and all it stands for stinks.[/quote]
I agree with pretty much all of that.
As for Curbs, it was a chicken and egg situation for Murray and the board, wasn't it? Murray knew that Curbs was thinking about leaving so did not want to give him a huge transfer budget which might have been spent on new players that a new manager might not have fancied and would have moved on (at a probable loss) and then demanded yet more money to spend on his own new players.
Rothko is right, Curbs spent badly on Jeffers, Rommedahl and Murphy from the Parker cash but then redeemed himself with Darren Bent.
Dowie then wasted money on JFH (BIG wages), Faye, Traore, Diawara and Pouso so the old bank balance has taken a real pounding, especially when you consider the effects of relegation.
American sport is much maligned, but at least in say the NHL for example - it is an open & genuinely interesting competition in terms of who might win the ultimate prize. I am no expert on the ins & outs of the league, but i do know there is a wage cap imposed unilaterally on the teams so that no-one team can spend more on players saklaries than its rivals.
I would love to see wage caps imposed on the Premier League. Then we would see a much more interesting league.
List of Stanley Cup winners since 1994
1993-94 New York Rangers 1994-95 New Jersey Devils 1995-96 Colorado Avalanche 1996-97 Detroit Red Wings 1997-98 Detroit Red Wings 1998-99 Dallas Stars 1999-2000 New Jersey Devils 2000-01 Colorado Avalanche 2001-02 Detroit Red Wings 2002-03 New Jersey Devils 2003-04 Tampa Bay Lightning 2004-05 Not awarded due to the cancellation of the 2004-05 season. 2005-06 Carolina Hurricanes
Comments
A sad indictment? Settle down Beavis!
Each to their own I guess? Its also fair to say though, that there have been plenty of times this season were we needed to be a bit more more direct, rather than having a whole lot of possession & pretty, pretty passing football, but not a lot of end product.
I'm not saying by any means that I'm an advocater of the long ball game, but I certainly don't mind if a long throw, punt(however hopeful), clearance, etc, results in us getting a goal, or out of danger if need be.
The sad fact is though, that we are not going to be able to play our own brand of football in every moment of every match, especially against the purveyors of the slightly more physical, & direct brands of football. Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire, & some games are going to be a bit more uglier than others. As long as there are 3 points at the end of the 90 minutes, or a hard fought point, from a passionate & dedicated team performance, I'm personally not going to argue.
Great result today boys! Well done! Keep up the good work!!
In the real world however over-reliance on one method of playing football creates predictability, which makes us easy to defend against. It makes sense to mix up the play a little, be unpredictable and perhaps sometimes be a little ugly.
We can play the beautiful game against other footballing teams - its horses for courses. It has been a hard lesson to learn, but hopefully we understand this league and the teams in it a bit better now.
BTW - to save time, can I post a comment to be used after the next defeat along the lines of "worst team ever....worst manager ever....disgusted that we are not the Brazil of the CCC...moon on a stick....repeat ad nauseum....at least until the next win"
Admittedly I understand how some will find it hard to swallow when we play agricultural football and still lose, but it sweetens the pill if we get 3 points, surely?
yeah we'd all love to play like brazil 1970 or arsenal 2008 but it's not realistic so if we have to grind to go up and grind to stay up then i'm all for it b4 we try and push on to the next level
Circumstance can dicate the shape of a team too. If Pardew uses 451 to keep things tight away from home or to stifle marauding all out attack sides then fine, but Curbs carried on using it even when it was well and truly sussed out by nearly everyone who played us.
Continuity is important, but variety is the spice of life.
Besides, as MCS says Curbs is West Ham now and therefore not our friend
no lennies gone and not our friend and nor is jimmy seed..... but if you know your history it's enough to make your heart go whooooa
Whether everyone else feels the same or not is another matter.
i always thought the premiership was a tougher league but hey-ho that's just my opinion
Now Dowie brought badly, and Pardew had too much to do, but Curbs didn't leave much footballing wise
You don't. As a supporter of a lower half team, lower 3rd in our case - when were in the Prem obviously- the actual matches were crap, certainly were in the last 4 seasons. There is the odd exception but generally the majority of our maches, particually at home, in our last 4 years in the Prem were awful games. Either complete thrashings or ground out draws or narrow victories.
You could look at the fixtures at the begining of the season and near enough judge the result.
I HATED our last 2/3 years in the Prem, excluding our run in after Christmas last year. Absolutely hated it.
The Prem is for 3 teams only and one of a further 4/5.
This season look at Derby, Bolton, Wigan, Brum, Fulham, Reading, Sunderland etc. Pure crap. For those that survive it will be the same next season, joined by Stoke or Bristol C or maybe us. All of those teams will go down in the next 3/4 years. Fact.
I hate the Prem, clubs like us a just cannon fodder. I like to see top players live but not just to murder us.
We may need promotiom from a business point of view but to me that is irrelevent. Football is not my business, it is a passtime to me. I want to be entertained and see a decent match. By that I mean two sides where there is not too much between them.
We have lost and won against teams this year quite comfortably - eg Blackpool, that is what I want.
The Premiership, and all it stands for stinks.
I agree with much of this but did Curbs leave a crock of sh*t or did the board not give him the funds to strengthen? Was this lack of funds the real reason why he lost interest, I suppose thinking that he had taken things as far as he could? It's one of those speculative Sunday evening thoughts but what if Curbs was given the £11M war chest, would he have been so quick out the door?
In my view and I have said it a few times, I think that Curbs relationship with RM and the Board and his husbandry of the clubs finances from the old Upton Park days left him psychologically unable to twist RM/the Boards arm to really stretch the transfer budget. Dowie comes along and all of a sudden they done the lot and half of next years as well.
He didn't spend the Parker money exceptionally well, if that's anything to go by
I notice a lot of Hammers fans are unhappy with Curbs - Oh to be in their position with the luxury of moaning from their perch safe in the premier league for another year - ho hum.......
You don't. As a supporter of a lower half team, lower 3rd in our case - when were in the Prem obviously- the actual matches were crap, certainly were in the last 4 seasons. There is the odd exception but generally the majority of our maches, particually at home, in our last 4 years in the Prem were awful games. Either complete thrashings or ground out draws or narrow victories.
You could look at the fixtures at the begining of the season and near enough judge the result.
I HATED our last 2/3 years in the Prem, excluding our run in after Christmas last year. Absolutely hated it.
The Prem is for 3 teams only and one of a further 4/5.
This season look at Derby, Bolton, Wigan, Brum, Fulham, Reading, Sunderland etc. Pure crap. For those that survive it will be the same next season, joined by Stoke or Bristol C or maybe us. All of those teams will go down in the next 3/4 years. Fact.
I hate the Prem, clubs like us a just cannon fodder. I like to see top players live but not just to murder us.
We may need promotiom from a business point of view but to me that is irrelevent. Football is not my business, it is a passtime to me. I want to be entertained and see a decent match. By that I mean two sides where there is not too much between them.
We have lost and won against teams this year quite comfortably - eg Blackpool, that is what I want.
The Premiership, and all it stands for stinks.[/quote]
I agree with pretty much all of that.
As for Curbs, it was a chicken and egg situation for Murray and the board, wasn't it? Murray knew that Curbs was thinking about leaving so did not want to give him a huge transfer budget which might have been spent on new players that a new manager might not have fancied and would have moved on (at a probable loss) and then demanded yet more money to spend on his own new players.
Rothko is right, Curbs spent badly on Jeffers, Rommedahl and Murphy from the Parker cash but then redeemed himself with Darren Bent.
Dowie then wasted money on JFH (BIG wages), Faye, Traore, Diawara and Pouso so the old bank balance has taken a real pounding, especially when you consider the effects of relegation.
I would love to see wage caps imposed on the Premier League. Then we would see a much more interesting league.
List of Stanley Cup winners since 1994
1993-94 New York Rangers
1994-95 New Jersey Devils
1995-96 Colorado Avalanche
1996-97 Detroit Red Wings
1997-98 Detroit Red Wings
1998-99 Dallas Stars
1999-2000 New Jersey Devils
2000-01 Colorado Avalanche
2001-02 Detroit Red Wings
2002-03 New Jersey Devils
2003-04 Tampa Bay Lightning
2004-05 Not awarded due to the cancellation of the 2004-05 season.
2005-06 Carolina Hurricanes