Mike Newell

Off_it

I tell you what, these comments he's made are .......... er ........... tactless to say the least, but I do think he's made quite a valid point about to politically correct nature of our society today. I wouldn't exactly have put it the way he did myself - and obviously have no idea of whether the official concerned is competent or not - but watching BBC breakfast news this morning they reported three stories in a line that;

1/ a number of prisoners have taken the Prison Service to court because they weren't allowed drugs in prision and went cold turkey (And they are likely to get an out of court settlement

2/ Birmingham City Council aren't referring to the Christmas holidays period anymore, they are calling it "Winterval" (?)

3/ It's been decided that a woman in a court of law in this country is allowed to keep her face covered up at all times - and the one in question is not a defendant she's a legal advisor!!!

What is the world coming to - it's bloody madness!!!

kigelia

[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]

1/ a number of prisoners have taken the Prison Service to court because they weren't allowed drugs in prision and went cold turkey (And they are likely to get an out of court settlement

2/ Birmingham City Council aren't referring to the Christmas holidays period anymore, they are calling it "Winterval" (?)

3/ It's been decided that a woman in a court of law in this country is allowed to keep her face covered up at all times - and the one in question is not a defendant she's a legal advisor!!!

What is the world coming to - it's bloody madness!!!

I agree with regards to point 2 but not sure what is mad about the other two points.

The prisoners you mention were, as I understand it, on methadone to get them off the hard stuff and they objected to being taken off that treatment plan and forced to go 'cold turkey' by the prison service.

Your issue with point 3 is? If she keeps her face covered so what. Whilst I view it as a detriment to her ability to conduct a case, because of the large amount of non-verbal communication there is I have no objection to it.

Off_it

So some smack addict gets a payout from poor old bellaguered Johnny taxpayer and you don't think there's anything even slightly wrong with that? No prizes for guessing what that will likely be spent on!

And as for point three, you've hit it on the head. I dont care about religious issues but it can only be a "detriment to her ability to conduct a case". Would the court put up with me turning up in a balaclava?

kigelia

[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]So some smack addict gets a payout from poor old bellaguered Johnny taxpayer and you don't think there's anything even slightly wrong with that? No prizes for guessing what that will likely be spent on!

And as for point three, you've hit it on the head. I dont care about religious issues but it can only be a "detriment to her ability to conduct a case". Would the court put up with me turning up in a balaclava?

The prisoner thing, I reckon the government should fight the case as I don't think they should be allowed to get anything out of it, but I can see why they were not happy.

Secondly if you need to wear a balaclava in court I wouldn't have a problem with it, although I would question how long you would carry on wearing it. Courts can get mighty stuffy and you would get a very sweaty head. Do your beliefs compel you to cover your face or do you just have a crap haircut?

Ketman

On Talkshite last night is it Gav Marcotty or whatever his name was referred to a particular Lady French Linesman as 'Slow & having a Big Bum' I nearly crashed my car I was laughing so much.

AFKABartram

They also raised the question on what would happen if it turned out a player was having a relationship with her ?

suzisausage

really? thats ridiculous, what were the thoughts on that then?

are there gay ref's / linesmen around? they could be having relationships with any player, yet, this isn't even deemed a possibility!

F-Blocker

Suzi - when you compare the number of openly gay players to the number of straight ones, the likelyhood of the woman having a relationship with a player is far higher.

ThreadKiller

what if she is a lesbian?

Charlton Dan

I think what Newell was really questioning (without upsetting Suze or any other of the fairer sex on here) is whether a female can physically keep up with a highly trained and fit male for 90mins and whether she was just there cos the FA have to be PC and offer a "token".

Personally I'd say probably not in most cases and would really rather not comment on the last point before I get myself into too much (anymore) bother and get a headlock next time I see Brenda ;-)

les_says

we've had some right coffin-dodgers running the line this season who ain't got a hope in hell of keeping up with bent and they're given some shocking decisions. if we're gonna criticise female linos why are these allowed to officiate?

AFKABartram

my view is that there is a chance a female could officiate just as adequately as men in the game. But there is no women players in our game, there is a seperate body for that, and as such female officials should be refereeing to the top standards of the women's game, not mens.

Ketman

An interesting point about fitness although I was at the Emirates yestreday for the Arse game & the referee was male & not particularly fit as I re-call him going down with Cramp.

suzisausage

[cite]Posted By: CharltonDan[/cite]I think what Newell was really questioning (without upsetting Suze or any other of the fairer sex on here) is whether a female can physically keep up with a highly trained and fit male for 90mins and whether she was just there cos the FA have to be PC and offer a "token".

Personally I'd say probably not in most cases and would really rather not comment on the last point before I get myself into too much (anymore) bother and get a headlock next time I see Brenda ;-)

I agree that if she got the job just because she's a laydee then thats wrong, but if she's passed all the qualifications on merit rather than just because she's a woman and she applied, then whats wrong with her officiating a match? I believe that if like les says, if the official was a 90 yr old, then newell would have questioned his ability also?

AFKABartram

hypothetically speaking, if a female player was good enough, could she be signed within the rules by a league club in this country ?

suzisausage

[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]my view is that there is a chance a female could officiate just as adequately as men in the game. But there is no women players in our game, there is a seperate body for that, and as such female officials should be refereeing to the top standards of the women's game, not mens.

why?
you'll say that women should only watch women play next!

Riscardo

Talking about officials, it makes me laugh when we get a 50 year old lino, who is always bald with tuffty bits and can't keep up with play. I remember watching Brum and Arse once on a Sunday and the poor old fool couldnt keep up with Henry. He just kept flagging ....

Riscardo

Sepp Blatter women should wear tight fitting tops and shorts to play ..... whooosh

AFKABartram

don't be silly !

my point is that a serious amount of resources and finance is being put to building Women's football in this country, yet the best female officials are working in the men's game, not the women's.

Now that it has become established in the past 20 years, Women's football in my view should be played by women, coached by women and officiated by women. It would make it a stronger game IMO.

I stress the point again, i see no reason why women can't officiate as well, if not better than men.

Though it might take them a little longer to park in the car park before the game :-)

suzisausage

[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]don't be silly !

my point is that a serious amount of resources and finance is being put to building Women's football in this country, yet the best female officials are working in the men's game, not the women's.

Now that it has become established in the past 20 years, Women's football in my view should be played by women, coached by women and officiated by women. It would make it a stronger game IMO.

I stress the point again, i see no reason why women can't officiate as well, if not better than men.

Though it might take them a little longer to park in the car park before the game :-)

do women not officiate at all in womens football at all then? is that a fact? i'm sure there was a woman running the line at the fa cup final (womens) last season?

i don't see the point in segregating it, just for the sake of it, why can't men manage women, in years to come pauline cope could be managing charlton!

Rothko

She's been reffing in the Conference for a couple of seasons, and by all accounts been one of the better refs in that division.

Newell had the arsehole about being done 3-2, and she was an easy target

Charlton Dan

[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]

I agree that if she got the job just because she's a laydee then thats wrong, but if she's passed all the qualifications on merit rather than just because she's a woman and she applied, then whats wrong with her officiating a match? I believe that if like les says, if the official was a 90 yr old, then newell would have questioned his ability also?

Nothing at all. Just like in any profession, if she / he are good enough for the job then let them take it irrespective of race, sex etc.

90? More than likely. If someone doesn't have the physical ability to keep up with play, and be that person male, female, old, fat etc, then they shouldn't be officiating

Rothko

[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]don't be silly !

my point is that a serious amount of resources and finance is being put to building Women's football in this country, yet the best female officials are working in the men's game, not the women's.

Now that it has become established in the past 20 years, Women's football in my view should be played by women, coached by women and officiated by women. It would make it a stronger game IMO.

I stress the point again, i see no reason why women can't officiate as well, if not better than men.

Though it might take them a little longer to park in the car park before the game :-)

The womens world cup is a mix of Male and female refs.

The simple thing is, if shes good enough, then she should be doing the job, if not then she won't.

do women not officiate at all in womens football at all then? is that a fact? i'm sure there was a woman running the line at the fa cup final (womens) last season?

i don't see the point in segregating it, just for the sake of it, why can't men manage women, in years to come pauline cope could be managing charlton!

suzisausage

[cite]Posted By: CharltonDan[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]

I agree that if she got the job just because she's a laydee then thats wrong, but if she's passed all the qualifications on merit rather than just because she's a woman and she applied, then whats wrong with her officiating a match? I believe that if like les says, if the official was a 90 yr old, then newell would have questioned his ability also?

Nothing at all. Just like in any profession, if she / he are good enough for the job then let them take it irrespective of race, sex etc.

90? More than likely. If someone doesn't have the physical ability to keep up with play, and be that person male, female, old, fat etc, then they shouldn't be officiating

exactly, the point that should be made is that it isn't a fact of a female officiating, rather than newell is outspoken at times, loves the limelight and was pi**ed off his team had lost and was looking for someone to blame and have a rant about it.

AFKABartram

[cite]Posted By: suzisausage
do women not officiate at all in womens football at all then? is that a fact? i'm sure there was a woman running the line at the fa cup final (womens) last season?

Women do officiate in the women's game, though not as much as men.

I just think that if its a woman players ambition to get to the highest level in the womens game, then it should equally be a woman officials ambition to get to the top of the women's game.

If the FA rules don't allow women players in the men's game, then they should not allow women officials either.

suzisausage

why though?

AFKABartram

[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]why though?

i've said it about 5 times !!

if a woman player is good enough, would she be able to play in the men's game ? Now if the answer is yes, there is nothing in the rules to say Charlton couldn't sign and play could a top female player, then i have no problem with women officials in the mens game.

If the answer is no, no matter how good the player is she is not allowed to play in the men's game, then females shouldn't be able to officiate either.

Otherwise the rules are inconsistant. Why treat officials differently to players ? They would still face exactly the same scenarios that would be put against female players , not just having seperate changing facilities but also being struck by a ball, player for example.

If there are guidelines, and valid reasons why females cannot play in the men's game there is absolutely no reason should not be used concerning women officials.

BlackForestReds

[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]my view is that there is a chance a female could officiate just as adequately as men in the game. But there is no women players in our game, there is a seperate body for that, and as such female officials should be refereeing to the top standards of the women's game, not mens.

Refereeing/running the line is a meritocratic achievement not something subject to quotas or sexual equality. If she's considered good enough at each successive level then she deserves the opportunity to officiate at the next level. If male referres/linesmen never made mistakes then I could accept that as an argument but since they make plenty of mistakes it doesn'y hold true.

Did anyone say that Dermot Gallagher was at fault for being a man when he missed Ben Thatcher's assault on pedro Medez? Or was it because he was a man that Graham Poll forgot how many times he'd booked a player during the WC? The answer is no, the only standard by which I want to be judged in my job is whether I'm good enough, not my gender.

Mike Newell was right...he is a sexist and a bad loser.

righthandbackward

spot on BFR, and he should be unemployed by the end of the day.....

AFKABartram

[cite]Posted By: BlackForestRedsthe only standard by which I want to be judged in my job is whether I'm good enough, not my gender.

And i agree fully, but that's not my argument here. Even though i am probably wrong, no one seems to understating the point i'm trying to make.

Can a woman who is good enough, strong enough, fast enough be allowed play in our professional male game ?

If the answer is in the rules NO, then why should officials be treated any differently ?

Henry Irving

I was disappointed to hear what Newell said because not only did he question this particular Asst Ref but ALL female Asst Refs. If she is there on merit and has passed all the fitness and other tests then she deserves her place. We've all seen what we think are poor male refs and asst so what is the issue.

As for what if she was having a relationship with a player what century are we living in? So no female and male can work on the same project in case out of the 60 million people in the country those two are knocking boots. No better than I'd expect from Talkbollox.

I rated Newelll as a manager but maybe something else is going on. He also made an outburst against his chairman and the his board's lack of support and ambition. Be interesting to see how long he lasts now at Luton and which other Championship clubs might be looking for a new manager soon.