[cite]Posted By: WhenIwasLittleBoy[/cite]u trying to tell me something Henry or someone nicked your keyboard
And that means? You've lost me completely.
[cite]Posted By: WhenIwasLittleBoy[/cite]Henry i couldnt give a monkeys where we play or what league we are in, the fact is the crop of players we have are not charlton through and through and it leaves a dad taste in my mouth that we have had players with less talent but bigger balls who played for the club and earnt less money, a manager feeding s35t in the local press and website every week, i would love to manage that club, they would sweet blood for the club and the fans proud of each performance regardless of the result
That's great, we all want players who care about the club as much as we do although I'm not sure if that was ever the case.
Not sure what that has to do with the board "knowing" that we weren't going up either.
As for wanting to manage the club and getting the players sweating blood, proud fans regardless of results etc. What a strange thing to say.
[cite]Posted By: WhenIwasLittleBoy[/cite] the fact is the crop of players we have are not charlton through and through and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
but you were branding the players 'tossers' after just two league games...........
I was not aware of us going for any of the players i have named............there is no negatitvity, i think fans have wised up and have felt cheated by some of the performances this season, it appears that there are certain people on here that are attached to the club and dismiss anything that appears detremental againest the club or employess,this is a fans forum and not one that is run by the club, therefor they should respect the views of the fans
I'd agree with: "there are certain people on here that are attached to the club and dismiss anything that appears detremental againest the club," but equally it is true that there is also a large knee-jerk reaction crew here who climb into attacking Pardew at every available opportunity whether the situation demands it or not. For example a regular feature of CL these days is an analysis of every comment that Pardew makes to the media, with the usual added comment that he doesn't respect/appreciate the fans, is white-washing failure etc.
Perhaps you aren't being negative, but I think you are being subjective when what the situation demands is a more objective analysis. Pardew is a good manager and has made mistakes, both in the transfer market and in team selection/tactics. Bear in mind that he first had to rescue a club threatened with relegation after inheriting a poor squad, and then after relegation had to rebuild it after the few decent players he inherited left. All coaches talk of a strong spine - keeper, centre back, midfielder and striker. At the end of last season we lost Scott Carson, Diawara, Song and upfront both Marcus and Darren Bent. We also lost Luke Young, Rommedahl, JFH and two other keepers from last year meaning that a large proportion of the squad has changed, more importantly the quality players left. Yet we expect the players that Pards has brought in to have automatically gelled and become a strong and effective team overnight to match those who departed!
Fair enough if Pardew had signed a bunch of Premiership players on big money, but of all those he has brought in only Weaver has had premiership experience, and most have been cheap - that is cheap in comparison to the transfer fees that their equivalents have gone for. In the close season there were suggestions that we should have signed Billy Sharp or Freddie Eastwood, both went to CCC clubs for the same kind of money that McLeod and Varney were signed for, where are they now and how much grief would Pardew have got if he'd signed them? Instead of signing Prem standard players we've had to fish around in the lower leagues and overseas for players and hope that when stepping up a level as most are doing that they could continue the form they showed in League One or Two, some have, some haven't but will and some may never do so, but unless we get a multi-millionnaire on board some fans will have to understand that this is how we are going to cut our cloth from here-on. Andy Reid's departure after being offered a mere three times his £400K PA wage at Charlton should hammer the nail home that we simply cannot compete with the Premiership for wages and therefore quality players are out of our reach, simply we have to do our best with lower standard players.
Ultimately it has been a disappointing season and the inconsistency in performances has contributed to that plus there have been too many games where the team hasn't performed (Blackpool away for example) - performances like that shouldn't ever be considered acceptable, no matter what the excuses. Pardew as manager has to take the flak for that and next season there should be few excuses, he'll have had a year to work with most of this squad and we need to bring in a strong creative midfielder and possibly hope that Lita can be persuaded that SE7 is a better avenue for his ambitions than Reading.
But comparing Pardew to Curbs is a non-starter and lazy thinking - different eras, different expectations and different time spans - the Curb's side of 2000-2003 took several years to gel and get right, time which apparently isn't being afforded to Pardew.
As for wanting to manage the club and getting the players sweating blood, proud fans regardless of results etc. What a strange thing to say.[/quote]
Really:
Let me list some players who did sweet blood and then tell me how strange it sounds: John Humphrey John Pender Steve Thompson Mark Aizlewood George Shipley John Pearson Jim Melrose Robert Lee Mark Stuart Colin Wash Peter Shirtliff Steve Gritt Mark Reid Bob BOlder Nicky Johns Derek Hales Mike Flanagan Colin Powell Martin Robinson Andy Hunt Clive Mendonca Mark Kinsella Scott Parker Richard Rufus Dean Kiley
the list can go on, but one thing u can garuntee about all of the players above when they walked off the pitch after 90 minutes plus, you knew they gave you 100 per cent regardless off the result, i dont mind losing its how u lose
Cherry-picking favourites over the last 25 years is all well and good, but i bet you wasn't saying those things after we conceded 7 against Brighton, 6 against Leeds, 4-0 up at Barnsley etc
You can't compare old days because it was a different era and almost a different game. Most on that list now would of been too slow to play at this level in the modern game, someone like Scott Sinclair would of breezed past Colin Walsh or Mark Reid, and they would of come in for the abuse.
Let me list some players who did sweet blood and then tell me how strange it sounds:
John Humphrey
John Pender
Steve Thompson
Mark Aizlewood
George Shipley
John Pearson
Jim Melrose
Robert Lee
Mark Stuart
Colin Wash
Peter Shirtliff
Steve Gritt
Mark Reid
Bob BOlder
Nicky Johns
Derek Hales
Mike Flanagan
Colin Powell
Martin Robinson
Andy Hunt
Clive Mendonca
Mark Kinsella
Scott Parker
Richard Rufus
Dean Kiley
the list can go on, but one thing u can garuntee about all of the players above when they walked off the pitch after 90 minutes plus, you knew they gave you 100 per cent regardless off the result, i dont mind losing its how u lose
I'm not sure where you are going with this thread and your line of argument. If you want to compare this squad with previous ones then you'll always find things you like and dislike. Why not add Iwelumo and Holland to that list? Or Weaver? Sodje and McCarthy have performed valiantly this year and Varney always seems to try.
Essentially you've falling head first into the nostalgia trap, in all our yesterdays things were always brighter and and brighter. So yep there are some good players there, but you are making it seem that they always gave the proverbial 110% on the pitch and never stopped running, while this season's crew are feckless, idle layabouts. I can think of quite a few matches over the years when those players didn't perform and as I say above you need to give the current squad time to develop and find their identity.
I think there is room for some criticism of Pards here, a more blalanced approach I think was required. I don't think he has done enough on the spine as such, rather too many gambles for key areas like central midfield and wide players for example, this does of course ignore the loss of Diawara and Reid who I assume he was hoping to keep.
Take all the signings' over the Pardew era including long term loans,
* were experienced and performing well at this level or above £ for those who were substantial a price + for those who have arguably paid off and made an impact, all of which may be up for debate of course.
*£+ ZZ *£+ Bougherra (mixed impact) *£ Gray
*+ McArthy (mixed impact, started poorly) *+ Weaver * Todorov (injured early on) *+ Iwelumo
* Lita (3 goals but needs to continue scoring, certainly potential to change our fortunes, perhaps not enough time too change things) * Cook (perhaps too little time to say that he has significantly contributed)
Halford (mixed impact) Sodje (mixed impact)
£ McLeod (got injured but prior to that impact/goals was low) £ Varney (more debatable but his goal tally is a disappointment)
Moo2 (mixed impact) Semedo (mixed impact) Racon (too few games) Sinclair (too few games) Christensen (no games) Dickson (too few games)
That leaves
*Thomas (low impact) *Holland (disappointing at this level but not bad for his age) *Thatcher (injured for long period)
Powell (too few games) Ambrose (mixed) Fortune (disappointing at this level) Sam (disappointing at this level) Sankofa (zero games) Youga (too few games)
I agree expectations change and it's difficult to compare eras. In essence, for me, this debate depends on whether or not you believe that TIME will:
- Help Pardew to get more out of the current talented players in the squad
- Help Pardew to find a settled formation and more or less a settled side (injuries, suspensions et al permitting), at least with a solid spine and clear gameplan
- Help Pardew to build confidence within the team that they can win week after week
- Help Pardew to win back the respect he has lost among large sections of the support
- Help Pardew to offload 'mistakes' without losing too much money on them
- Help Pardew to bring in more new signings at little cost who 'fit' into the squad, see Charlton as an attractive proposition to further their careers and are prepared to give their all for the cause
Maybe we do need to be more patient, but I'd feel more confident if I was seeing more positive signs of progress on some of the above in the time he's had so far.
Comments
And that means? You've lost me completely.
That's great, we all want players who care about the club as much as we do although I'm not sure if that was ever the case.
Not sure what that has to do with the board "knowing" that we weren't going up either.
As for wanting to manage the club and getting the players sweating blood, proud fans regardless of results etc. What a strange thing to say.
but you were branding the players 'tossers' after just two league games...........
I'd agree with: "there are certain people on here that are attached to the club and dismiss anything that appears detremental againest the club," but equally it is true that there is also a large knee-jerk reaction crew here who climb into attacking Pardew at every available opportunity whether the situation demands it or not. For example a regular feature of CL these days is an analysis of every comment that Pardew makes to the media, with the usual added comment that he doesn't respect/appreciate the fans, is white-washing failure etc.
Perhaps you aren't being negative, but I think you are being subjective when what the situation demands is a more objective analysis. Pardew is a good manager and has made mistakes, both in the transfer market and in team selection/tactics. Bear in mind that he first had to rescue a club threatened with relegation after inheriting a poor squad, and then after relegation had to rebuild it after the few decent players he inherited left. All coaches talk of a strong spine - keeper, centre back, midfielder and striker. At the end of last season we lost Scott Carson, Diawara, Song and upfront both Marcus and Darren Bent. We also lost Luke Young, Rommedahl, JFH and two other keepers from last year meaning that a large proportion of the squad has changed, more importantly the quality players left. Yet we expect the players that Pards has brought in to have automatically gelled and become a strong and effective team overnight to match those who departed!
Fair enough if Pardew had signed a bunch of Premiership players on big money, but of all those he has brought in only Weaver has had premiership experience, and most have been cheap - that is cheap in comparison to the transfer fees that their equivalents have gone for. In the close season there were suggestions that we should have signed Billy Sharp or Freddie Eastwood, both went to CCC clubs for the same kind of money that McLeod and Varney were signed for, where are they now and how much grief would Pardew have got if he'd signed them? Instead of signing Prem standard players we've had to fish around in the lower leagues and overseas for players and hope that when stepping up a level as most are doing that they could continue the form they showed in League One or Two, some have, some haven't but will and some may never do so, but unless we get a multi-millionnaire on board some fans will have to understand that this is how we are going to cut our cloth from here-on. Andy Reid's departure after being offered a mere three times his £400K PA wage at Charlton should hammer the nail home that we simply cannot compete with the Premiership for wages and therefore quality players are out of our reach, simply we have to do our best with lower standard players.
Ultimately it has been a disappointing season and the inconsistency in performances has contributed to that plus there have been too many games where the team hasn't performed (Blackpool away for example) - performances like that shouldn't ever be considered acceptable, no matter what the excuses. Pardew as manager has to take the flak for that and next season there should be few excuses, he'll have had a year to work with most of this squad and we need to bring in a strong creative midfielder and possibly hope that Lita can be persuaded that SE7 is a better avenue for his ambitions than Reading.
But comparing Pardew to Curbs is a non-starter and lazy thinking - different eras, different expectations and different time spans - the Curb's side of 2000-2003 took several years to gel and get right, time which apparently isn't being afforded to Pardew.
As for wanting to manage the club and getting the players sweating blood, proud fans regardless of results etc. What a strange thing to say.[/quote]
Really:
Let me list some players who did sweet blood and then tell me how strange it sounds:
John Humphrey
John Pender
Steve Thompson
Mark Aizlewood
George Shipley
John Pearson
Jim Melrose
Robert Lee
Mark Stuart
Colin Wash
Peter Shirtliff
Steve Gritt
Mark Reid
Bob BOlder
Nicky Johns
Derek Hales
Mike Flanagan
Colin Powell
Martin Robinson
Andy Hunt
Clive Mendonca
Mark Kinsella
Scott Parker
Richard Rufus
Dean Kiley
the list can go on, but one thing u can garuntee about all of the players above when they walked off the pitch after 90 minutes plus, you knew they gave you 100 per cent regardless off the result, i dont mind losing its how u lose
Aizlewood, Parker? They really loved the club didn't they
Not knocking any of those players, they all played well for the club.
What I thought was strange was your fantasy about being team manager.
You can't compare old days because it was a different era and almost a different game. Most on that list now would of been too slow to play at this level in the modern game, someone like Scott Sinclair would of breezed past Colin Walsh or Mark Reid, and they would of come in for the abuse.
I'm not sure where you are going with this thread and your line of argument. If you want to compare this squad with previous ones then you'll always find things you like and dislike. Why not add Iwelumo and Holland to that list? Or Weaver? Sodje and McCarthy have performed valiantly this year and Varney always seems to try.
Essentially you've falling head first into the nostalgia trap, in all our yesterdays things were always brighter and and brighter. So yep there are some good players there, but you are making it seem that they always gave the proverbial 110% on the pitch and never stopped running, while this season's crew are feckless, idle layabouts. I can think of quite a few matches over the years when those players didn't perform and as I say above you need to give the current squad time to develop and find their identity.
Take all the signings' over the Pardew era including long term loans,
* were experienced and performing well at this level or above
£ for those who were substantial a price
+ for those who have arguably paid off and made an impact, all of which may be up for debate of course.
*£+ ZZ
*£+ Bougherra (mixed impact)
*£ Gray
*+ McArthy (mixed impact, started poorly)
*+ Weaver
* Todorov (injured early on)
*+ Iwelumo
* Lita (3 goals but needs to continue scoring, certainly potential to change our fortunes, perhaps not enough time too change things)
* Cook (perhaps too little time to say that he has significantly contributed)
Halford (mixed impact)
Sodje (mixed impact)
£ McLeod (got injured but prior to that impact/goals was low)
£ Varney (more debatable but his goal tally is a disappointment)
Moo2 (mixed impact)
Semedo (mixed impact)
Racon (too few games)
Sinclair (too few games)
Christensen (no games)
Dickson (too few games)
That leaves
*Thomas (low impact)
*Holland (disappointing at this level but not bad for his age)
*Thatcher (injured for long period)
Powell (too few games)
Ambrose (mixed)
Fortune (disappointing at this level)
Sam (disappointing at this level)
Sankofa (zero games)
Youga (too few games)
Have I missed anyone?
:)
A more what approach Razil? (Not being picky here, just genuinely confused)
- Help Pardew to get more out of the current talented players in the squad
- Help Pardew to find a settled formation and more or less a settled side (injuries, suspensions et al permitting), at least with a solid spine and clear gameplan
- Help Pardew to build confidence within the team that they can win week after week
- Help Pardew to win back the respect he has lost among large sections of the support
- Help Pardew to offload 'mistakes' without losing too much money on them
- Help Pardew to bring in more new signings at little cost who 'fit' into the squad, see Charlton as an attractive proposition to further their careers and are prepared to give their all for the cause
Maybe we do need to be more patient, but I'd feel more confident if I was seeing more positive signs of progress on some of the above in the time he's had so far.
Go to the doctor and tell them this is possible, then you'll know how strange it sounds.