[cite]Posted By: mart77[/cite]why weren't we very dynamic when he was out of the team then? Think he deserves a contract on this season, if for helping the youngsters alone next season.
If you look at some of the performances which now stand out as the best of the season (ie winning away to Palace and Hull - teams in the play-off spots) then the midfield was Semedo, Reid and Zheng with no Holland in sight
or winning away to Cardiff - midfield was Racon, Reid and Zheng - no Holland again
Sorry to be pedantic. At Cardiff, Holland scored our first goal in the 34th minute with a terrific drive from outside the area. Not a bad effort from somebody who "wasn't" playing ......... ;o)
For what it's worth i think Holland is a more energetic player than Semedo and probably is the better midfield player. The point is that neither player is the answer in a 442. Taking into account that one player is in his mid-thirties with his contract up and the other is a youngster who can play in other positions and has at least another year on his contract it's a no brainer. Sorry Matt but it's best for all concerned.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Barn Door Lisbie[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Holland never won us many games agreed but i bet he stopped us loosing more than Reid, ZZ, Racon, Semedo combined
the days of Holland being the driving force from midfield stopped an age ago everyone knows we need a tough tackling ball winning central midfielder who bags 10 goals a season possibly more in this league unfortunatly for every one of those you need millions and you also need a Matty Holland alongside.
believe me i thought Semedo was going to be super for us this season in the few pre season games i saw but the guy gives away fouls and balls in very dangerous areas in league games and we can not have him and Shelvey as the main partnership and i think just from Pards comments alone and our financial state Shelvey will play alot of games next season[/quote]
It's interesting that Semedo was getting rave reviews until he was paired up with Holland.
I guess it's all about opinions and people seem to differ quite markedly on Holland and Semedo but I'm definitely with you on this one - Semedo looked the real deal as a holding midfielder until Holland came back into the side and his form seemed to go a bit downhill from there on....
Holland is being carried and and the likes of Semedo and ZZ are suffering because they are having to do his donkey work.[/quote]
Just got this from the OS i know Jon Jo is a member here and i dont think he is impressed with this thread
He added: "I've trained with the first team over the last couple of weeks and obviously the standard is a lot higher. But they've treated me really well and the likes of Ben Thatcher and Matty Holland have taken me under their wing.
"If I do play at the weekend, I imagine Matty will be talking to me all the way through, which will be a big help.
Now there we go from the horses mouth as such lets keep Matty here to bring him on.
I can not believe that Semedo and ZZ are suffering because of doing Mattys donkey work. ZZ was knackared too much footie and travel across to China, Semedo got found out and needed time to bed in to the English game
Henners get the pro zone stats on KM's run and tackles made pocket it on your way out of the building and let us know how much donkey work these 2 carried out
and so he should WSS Matty has so much he can teach a youngster like Jon Jo tht it has to be worth what ever money he can get out of the club as a weekley wage as will the effort that he would put into what could be his last season.
Unless that is that its Mattys fault we didnt go up and then therefore the POTY result was a fix and he shouldnt have won it
I just hope Henners can nick the pro zone facts and we can see if Matty did harm the team in such a way
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]oggy i love it when your pedantic especially when its not against my posts :-)
Matty for one more year for me
Ha ha! NLA ....... only just come back to this thread.
Just don't you forget ......you're next! )
Agreed with you on Matty, whatever people think about his contribution or the current balance of the team, he's been worth his weight in gold for his attitude, willingness to take responsibility and team leadership skills.
Absolute professionalism, 100% committed to the team. Every manager would want his young protege to be mentored by a senior player of Matty's calibre.
You can see how the other players rate Matty.
If there's one player who deserves and has earned the right for a new contract - it's Matty.
Didn't realise we were now running a charity for "nice blokes" and based our squad on ability (questionable this season granted)
There seems to be an awful lot of "Emperors New Clothes" as far as Holland is concerned. My view is that for all of his qualities, Holland's ineffective performances do not justify a new contract and we will not go anywhere all the time the team is based around him.
i would keep him the same way as i think we should keep chris powell, player coasch and let the younger players learn from them and let him play in the reserves and our short cup run
The important thing here is what the senior players bring to the squad.
Take Powelly - he hasn't played since New Years Day ...... but don't think he's been skulking away in a forgotten corner counting his money. His character and contribution at the training ground and the dressing room would have been immense.
Pardew also had him at West Ham, remember - and in bringing him back to The Valley, brought him back not only as playing cover but what he can offer behind the scenes.
Again, Holland. He's played every match since his injury and has led by example. We only see what he does on the pitch though, and value him only by what we see.
You've only got to read the comments of his own team mates to know how much Matt Holland is valued within the club.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]The important thing here is what the senior players bring to the squad.
Take Powelly - he hasn't played since New Years Day ...... but don't think he's been skulking away in a forgotten corner counting his money. His character and contribution at the training ground and the dressing room would have been immense.
Pardew also had him at West Ham, remember - and in bringing him back to The Valley, brought him back not only as playing cover but what he can offer behind the scenes.
Again, Holland. He's played every match since his injury and has led by example. We only see what he does on the pitch though, and value him only by what we see.
You've only got to read the comments of his own team mates to know how much Matt Holland is valued within the club.
Very valid points Oggy but will finances allow us to keep him if we are not regarding him as a first teamer?
First we had Kins then Parker so maybe we are spoilt ? We missed out on the Reading fella now sitting doing nothin at Chelsea (even though Steve Brown recomended him) so now we need to sink all our money into a box-to-box midfielder ....
What I mean is no more £2M strikers please!
So back to this thread ... Holland can do a job for the squad which needs to be a lot thinner / meaner for next year
[quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]how can we say that the guy who won player of the year should go yet players like semedo who did nothing apart from one game at right back stays. If the issue is to bolster the midfield then we need to sell players of value.
Matty is not on a high wage nor would it do us any harm to keep him, sell thomas and Ambrose generate funds and give semedo more time to settle.
sell Thatcher Fortune Thomas Ambrose Weaver raise some much needed cash you know what you get with Holland and to be honest without him we would be dropping again or why else did he get player of the year in such a cack season i think he is getting some very poor respect for his efforts on here i couldnt think of a better man to teach young pros on what it would take as a profesional and allow him to be more effective by reducing his games we have a high foriegn player count in our team and we need those guys to understand the game too who better than matty[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Barn Door Lisbie[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Holland never won us many games agreed but i bet he stopped us loosing more than Reid, ZZ, Racon, Semedo combined
the days of Holland being the driving force from midfield stopped an age ago everyone knows we need a tough tackling ball winning central midfielder who bags 10 goals a season possibly more in this league unfortunatly for every one of those you need millions and you also need a Matty Holland alongside.
believe me i thought Semedo was going to be super for us this season in the few pre season games i saw but the guy gives away fouls and balls in very dangerous areas in league games and we can not have him and Shelvey as the main partnership and i think just from Pards comments alone and our financial state Shelvey will play alot of games next season[/quote]
It's interesting that Semedo was getting rave reviews until he was paired up with Holland.
Holland is being carried and and the likes of Semedo and ZZ are suffering because they are having to do his donkey work.[/quote]
Matt is a great ambassador for the club & puts his all in, but realistically, he isn't good enough anymore. The reason he won the player of the season was that he was one of a few that really seemed to give it their all through the season, & the fact it was REALLY slim pickings when it came to choosing a genuine candidate for player of the year.
He runs a hell of a lot, but is too lightweight, doesn't offer much going forward, or really defensively. He seemed most comfortable in a 4-5-1 a few years back, where its fair to say that having the shadow of someone like Kish, Parker or Smertin defending alongside hid a lot of his shortcomings.
Player coach maybe? But certainly by no means a regular anymore, if he stays.
As for Thatcher, I think we need to be looking to build a fresher side. We have younger talent in the LB slot & they have shown somewhat that they can handle this level of football.
I think Holland would make a cracking manager also in the future would be nice to think that we could help him with this path, It would be nice to see Kins as manager Powelly and holland as coach
Yep, let's bin our player of the year - the player of the year in a miserable bleedin season and the only one who has shown some guts and professionalism on anythin like a consistant basis.
honestly, sometimes I'm embarrassed to be known as a charlton fan when i see this sort of stuff.
I am glad that you agree off it it has been winding me up since Ipswich away where i was informed that our decline was all Hollands fault and now it is coming through on here
Comments
Sorry to be pedantic. At Cardiff, Holland scored our first goal in the 34th minute with a terrific drive from outside the area. Not a bad effort from somebody who "wasn't" playing ......... ;o)
Semedo was an 80th min sub.
Charlton: Weaver; Mills, Powell, Fortune, Sodje; Ambrose (Semedo 80), Holland, Zheng, Reid, Sam (Varney 89); Iwelumo (McLeod 88).
Goals: Holland 34, Reid (pen) 79
Semedo missed the 1-0 away win at Bristol City, Racon ably deputising. Maybe that was the match you meant?
Away to Southampton, Semedo was sent off well before half time, yet the team played terrifically without him in the 2nd half, to notch a 1-0 away win.
Matty for one more year for me
the days of Holland being the driving force from midfield stopped an age ago everyone knows we need a tough tackling ball winning central midfielder who bags 10 goals a season possibly more in this league unfortunatly for every one of those you need millions and you also need a Matty Holland alongside.
believe me i thought Semedo was going to be super for us this season in the few pre season games i saw but the guy gives away fouls and balls in very dangerous areas in league games and we can not have him and Shelvey as the main partnership and i think just from Pards comments alone and our financial state Shelvey will play alot of games next season[/quote]
It's interesting that Semedo was getting rave reviews until he was paired up with Holland.
I guess it's all about opinions and people seem to differ quite markedly on Holland and Semedo but I'm definitely with you on this one - Semedo looked the real deal as a holding midfielder until Holland came back into the side and his form seemed to go a bit downhill from there on....
Holland is being carried and and the likes of Semedo and ZZ are suffering because they are having to do his donkey work.[/quote]
He added: "I've trained with the first team over the last couple of weeks and obviously the standard is a lot higher. But they've treated me really well and the likes of Ben Thatcher and Matty Holland have taken me under their wing.
"If I do play at the weekend, I imagine Matty will be talking to me all the way through, which will be a big help.
Now there we go from the horses mouth as such lets keep Matty here to bring him on.
I can not believe that Semedo and ZZ are suffering because of doing Mattys donkey work. ZZ was knackared too much footie and travel across to China, Semedo got found out and needed time to bed in to the English game
Henners get the pro zone stats on KM's run and tackles made pocket it on your way out of the building and let us know how much donkey work these 2 carried out
"If I do play at the weekend, I imagine Matty will be talking to me all the way through, which will be a big help."
on another thread and i think it's a big hint that he will play WITH matty holland, our player of the year.
Unless that is that its Mattys fault we didnt go up and then therefore the POTY result was a fix and he shouldnt have won it
I just hope Henners can nick the pro zone facts and we can see if Matty did harm the team in such a way
Ha ha! NLA ....... only just come back to this thread.
Just don't you forget ......you're next!
Agreed with you on Matty, whatever people think about his contribution or the current balance of the team, he's been worth his weight in gold for his attitude, willingness to take responsibility and team leadership skills.
Absolute professionalism, 100% committed to the team. Every manager would want his young protege to be mentored by a senior player of Matty's calibre.
You can see how the other players rate Matty.
If there's one player who deserves and has earned the right for a new contract - it's Matty.
There seems to be an awful lot of "Emperors New Clothes" as far as Holland is concerned. My view is that for all of his qualities, Holland's ineffective performances do not justify a new contract and we will not go anywhere all the time the team is based around him.
Think we will just have to agree to disagree.
Take Powelly - he hasn't played since New Years Day ...... but don't think he's been skulking away in a forgotten corner counting his money. His character and contribution at the training ground and the dressing room would have been immense.
Pardew also had him at West Ham, remember - and in bringing him back to The Valley, brought him back not only as playing cover but what he can offer behind the scenes.
Again, Holland. He's played every match since his injury and has led by example. We only see what he does on the pitch though, and value him only by what we see.
You've only got to read the comments of his own team mates to know how much Matt Holland is valued within the club.
Very valid points Oggy but will finances allow us to keep him if we are not regarding him as a first teamer?
Holland's influence behind the scenes is becoming more & more apparent.
He doesn't give the impression of beinfg a financially greedy man, either.
I doubt the club will let him go.
First we had Kins then Parker so maybe we are spoilt ? We missed out on the Reading fella now sitting doing nothin at Chelsea (even though Steve Brown recomended him) so now we need to sink all our money into a box-to-box midfielder ....
What I mean is no more £2M strikers please!
So back to this thread ... Holland can do a job for the squad which needs to be a lot thinner / meaner for next year
Matty is not on a high wage nor would it do us any harm to keep him, sell thomas and Ambrose generate funds and give semedo more time to settle.
sell Thatcher
Fortune
Thomas
Ambrose
Weaver
raise some much needed cash you know what you get with Holland and to be honest without him we would be dropping again or why else did he get player of the year in such a cack season i think he is getting some very poor respect for his efforts on here i couldnt think of a better man to teach young pros on what it would take as a profesional and allow him to be more effective by reducing his games we have a high foriegn player count in our team and we need those guys to understand the game too who better than matty[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Barn Door Lisbie[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Holland never won us many games agreed but i bet he stopped us loosing more than Reid, ZZ, Racon, Semedo combined
the days of Holland being the driving force from midfield stopped an age ago everyone knows we need a tough tackling ball winning central midfielder who bags 10 goals a season possibly more in this league unfortunatly for every one of those you need millions and you also need a Matty Holland alongside.
believe me i thought Semedo was going to be super for us this season in the few pre season games i saw but the guy gives away fouls and balls in very dangerous areas in league games and we can not have him and Shelvey as the main partnership and i think just from Pards comments alone and our financial state Shelvey will play alot of games next season[/quote]
It's interesting that Semedo was getting rave reviews until he was paired up with Holland.
Holland is being carried and and the likes of Semedo and ZZ are suffering because they are having to do his donkey work.[/quote]
Matt is a great ambassador for the club & puts his all in, but realistically, he isn't good enough anymore. The reason he won the player of the season was that he was one of a few that really seemed to give it their all through the season, & the fact it was REALLY slim pickings when it came to choosing a genuine candidate for player of the year.
He runs a hell of a lot, but is too lightweight, doesn't offer much going forward, or really defensively. He seemed most comfortable in a 4-5-1 a few years back, where its fair to say that having the shadow of someone like Kish, Parker or Smertin defending alongside hid a lot of his shortcomings.
Player coach maybe? But certainly by no means a regular anymore, if he stays.
As for Thatcher, I think we need to be looking to build a fresher side. We have younger talent in the LB slot & they have shown somewhat that they can handle this level of football.
honestly, sometimes I'm embarrassed to be known as a charlton fan when i see this sort of stuff.