This is a very sad case. I know of a recent case whereby a Police Car mowed down & killed my Cousin's girlfiend's aunt in Bromley a couple of months back. He was doing 100mph in a 30mph zone doing a 'Food run' for his mates. The Police are currently not prepared to share the data contained in the Black Box for the car. They are now claiming the officer was on a 'Callout' to McDonalds, if that is so share the f**Kin data from the black box. A Cover up is afoot we think.
[cite]Posted By: southamptonaddick[/cite]Soundas why is Ledge ott. The bloke murdered two children through his own actions. I personally hope he never finds peace with himself cause I'm sure the boys parents won't.
I hope that you or anybody else on this board never have to bury any of your children.
That's ridiculous, he didn't murder anyone...murder is a premeditated act he was never charged with murder of course but that term seem to have rolled off your tongue in order to inflame the situation...but let's not get into semantics here...I'm not forgiving the bloke for one moment.
I'm just saying he too has to try to find a way out of the hell he's now in...if you're 'pleased' he's in his own private hell and want him to remain in it for the rest of his days then you're a very harsh and heartless person indeed...I don't want anyone in this sad story to go on hurting more than they have to in order find peace with themselves.
I'm not trying to inflame the situation. I am putting my point of view as you are putting yours. If I am harsh or heartless then so be it. He did murder two children by his actions namely driving whilst drunk. When he got behind the wheel drunk he was going on the street with a dangerous weapon. I'm sure that he regrets what he did but that will not bring back the innocent lives that he took or stop the heartache of their family.
If he murdered somone then why wasn't he charged with murder?
I'm outa here mate, as it's obviously a very highly charged debate and we'll just have to agree to disagree...I have been in my own little private hell on one occassion in my life...nothing even remotely on the scale of this bloke I have to say but a private hell none-the-less....I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
He too has a family and parents who must now be absolutely shattered....can you imagine how proud they were of their son and what he'd achieved and now in an instant they too have a nightmare to live through...if it was me I don't think I'd be able to carry on and by all accounts the bloke is going insane with guilt and remorse.
I'm not forgetting the lads parents and their torment here for one solitary second by the way, lest anyone should think otherwise.
but everyone knows if you drink or drive there is a risk. he knew that risk, and if people aren't punished for taking that risk then everyone else will think they can do it. thats why we have such problems in the world today by "letting peoples own guilt be their punishment"
I'm sure he regrets it, but he did the crime. he could have got away with it, and never got caught and he'd have probably done it again. he's probably done it before and probably had some near misses of harming people. you never know what is round the corner. I feel sorry for his family too, and they do feel shattered as ultimately he has let them down as well. they shouldn't feel sorry for him, they should feel anger that he's done this to himself and to the poor family who lost their children.
The question is did he go out wilfully with the intent to kill those boys?
The answer is no he didn't and thus the sentence must reflect that in the same way as manslaughter (effectively causing death without intent) is not punished as severely as murder (effectively causing death with intent).
It is a fault of the parole system that he will only serve three and a half years not the legal system. It is sometimes all too easy to confuse the two.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]The question is did he go out wilfully with the intent to kill those boys?
The answer is no he didn't and thus the sentence must reflect that in the same way as manslaughter (effectively causing death without intent) is not punished as severely as murder (effectively causing death with intent).
It is a fault of the parole system that he will only serve three and a half years not the legal system. It is sometimes all too easy to confuse the two.
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Ermmmmm Ledge, do you 'honestly' think this bloke is going to take up his career again....oh please....come off it!!!!
Lee Hughes did and he killed someone and ran off - alright not kids. Time will tell but it's his profession so I think he will.
Just changing the debate slightly, lets say that he did not crash into those kids, but 5 minutes earlier he had been stopped by the police for the drunk driving and wavering around the motorway. Does anyone know what sentence he would have got. My view is that there is little difference between what happened and this situation other than luck and that if the ficticious situation had happened then he should still have received a similar sentence.
[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]Just changing the debate slightly, lets say that he did not crash into those kids, but 5 minutes earlier he had been stopped by the police for the drunk driving and wavering around the motorway. Does anyone know what sentence he would have got. My view is that there is little difference between what happened and this situation other than luck and that if the ficticious situation had happened then he should still have received a similar sentence.
Banned 1 year at least + a fine.
We all know why we have drink drive laws but some still think tragedy happens to others and they are immune to it.
The real sad thing about this situation is that for both Families to move on, and i can not only begin to imagine how you can move on if you are a member of the childrens family especially mum and dad, you will need to forgive the actions of that man because the grief and Anger will consume you so much i really do feel for those that loose their children to illness let alone the actions of a person that chose the wrong choice at a point in time, But to move on you have to forgive in the end to find your own peace.
As a father of one myself if you turned it on its head, I would still love my son if he was the one who made the mistake, I would need to love him to help him through the pain and termoil of his own doing and that is something that we all as Mums and Dads need to remember, it is easy for us all to sit there and pass Judgement
but what IF it was your child who made the wrong choice would you honestly disown them and wish for them to be in their own tortuous hell.
I wouldnt for this instance there may be other circumstances that you would but not for this
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]The question is did he go out wilfully with the intent to kill those boys?
The answer is no he didn't and thus the sentence must reflect that in the same way as manslaughter (effectively causing death without intent) is not punished as severely as murder (effectively causing death with intent).
no but he took an illegal risk by drinking knowing that it could do a lot of damage.
everyone knows what 'could' happen.
i'm sure his parents will stick by him and they're probably terribly sorry that he took that decision, but they must feel a mixture of sadness and anger.
its a whole sad sorry mess, and i feel sorry for everyone affected.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]The real sad thing about this situation is that for both Families to move on, and i can not only begin to imagine how you can move on if you are a member of the childrens family especially mum and dad, you will need to forgive the actions of that man because the grief and Anger will consume you so much i really do feel for those that loose their children to illness let alone the actions of a person that chose the wrong choice at a point in time, But to move on you have to forgive in the end to find your own peace.
As a father of one myself if you turned it on its head, I would still love my son if he was the one who made the mistake, I would need to love him to help him through the pain and termoil of his own doing and that is something that we all as Mums and Dads need to remember, it is easy for us all to sit there and pass Judgement
but what IF it was your child who made the wrong choice would you honestly disown them and wish for them to be in their own tortuous hell.
I wouldn't for this instance there may be other circumstances that you would but not for this
Agree NLA, you love your kids unconditionally regardless but hopefully can see both the right and wrong of what they do and support them with out condoning all their actions.
Sorry fella dont and wont agree with "there for the grace of God go i" i dont drink and drive never have. so it would be more corrct to say "there for the grace of god go some"
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Sorry fella dont and wont agree with "there for the grace of God go i" i dont drink and drive never have. so it would be more corrct to say "there for the grace of god go some"
Have to agree with GH, we know the law and more importantly we know the possible human consequences so don't do it.
If I have one pint I wont drive. In fact I wont even drive to the pub, alcohol and driving do not go together. That keeper must of know he was still a bit drunk from the night before when he set off in the morning. Chances are he did not even have any sleep.
The facts are he was twice over the small legal limit ......and that might only have been the equivalent of a couple of beers and a glass of wine with food over a longish period of time. And that might have a big effect on one individual but virtually none on another. He was evidently not drunk - but he was over the limit and broke the law.
The biggest problem was that he said he went to bed after 2am and got up to drive at 4:30am. Having dozed for just a couple of hours, was he in a fit state to drive long distance or any distance?
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Ermmmmm Ledge, do you 'honestly' think this bloke is going to take up his career again....oh please....come off it!!!!
Lee Hughes did and he killed someone and ran off - alright not kids. Time will tell but it's his profession so I think he will.
Have to agree. If he's good enough, then i'm sure there will be someone out there willing to give him another chance, giving it the 'he committed a crime but he's served his sentence and everyone deserves a 2nd chance'. He is only 25 so will be out before he is 30. A lot of keepers play til their late 30s so he could still have 10 years in the game.
Judging by the video his driving was erratic....falling asleep at the wheel is soooo dangerous under any circumstances and you all know you cant just drive through it....add alcohol into the mix and you end up playing with people's lives, and we all know the outcome of this tragedy. Its all very sad....7 years should indeed mean 7 years.
I didnt mean therefore the grace of god go i in refrence to the DD i ment in refrence to the fact that we do not know what life choices our siblings will make nor someone else who could make a bad choice. and what negative impact taht could have on any of us
DD is a terrible thing and kills so many and i can not believe the guy was as careless in his choice to drive my concern is that i can choose not to do it and i can educate my son not to do it but i can not gaurentee that he wont do it none of us can and that bad choice can result in someones life being lost even his own and i can only pray and hope that he makes great life choices and i never find myself in the situation of this young mans parents
Comments
I'm not trying to inflame the situation. I am putting my point of view as you are putting yours. If I am harsh or heartless then so be it. He did murder two children by his actions namely driving whilst drunk. When he got behind the wheel drunk he was going on the street with a dangerous weapon. I'm sure that he regrets what he did but that will not bring back the innocent lives that he took or stop the heartache of their family.
I'm outa here mate, as it's obviously a very highly charged debate and we'll just have to agree to disagree...I have been in my own little private hell on one occassion in my life...nothing even remotely on the scale of this bloke I have to say but a private hell none-the-less....I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
He too has a family and parents who must now be absolutely shattered....can you imagine how proud they were of their son and what he'd achieved and now in an instant they too have a nightmare to live through...if it was me I don't think I'd be able to carry on and by all accounts the bloke is going insane with guilt and remorse.
I'm not forgetting the lads parents and their torment here for one solitary second by the way, lest anyone should think otherwise.
I'm sure he regrets it, but he did the crime. he could have got away with it, and never got caught and he'd have probably done it again. he's probably done it before and probably had some near misses of harming people. you never know what is round the corner. I feel sorry for his family too, and they do feel shattered as ultimately he has let them down as well. they shouldn't feel sorry for him, they should feel anger that he's done this to himself and to the poor family who lost their children.
The answer is no he didn't and thus the sentence must reflect that in the same way as manslaughter (effectively causing death without intent) is not punished as severely as murder (effectively causing death with intent).
It is a fault of the parole system that he will only serve three and a half years not the legal system. It is sometimes all too easy to confuse the two.
Spot on Len.
Lee Hughes did and he killed someone and ran off - alright not kids. Time will tell but it's his profession so I think he will.
Banned 1 year at least + a fine.
We all know why we have drink drive laws but some still think tragedy happens to others and they are immune to it.
As a father of one myself if you turned it on its head, I would still love my son if he was the one who made the mistake, I would need to love him to help him through the pain and termoil of his own doing and that is something that we all as Mums and Dads need to remember, it is easy for us all to sit there and pass Judgement
but what IF it was your child who made the wrong choice would you honestly disown them and wish for them to be in their own tortuous hell.
I wouldnt for this instance there may be other circumstances that you would but not for this
no but he took an illegal risk by drinking knowing that it could do a lot of damage.
everyone knows what 'could' happen.
i'm sure his parents will stick by him and they're probably terribly sorry that he took that decision, but they must feel a mixture of sadness and anger.
its a whole sad sorry mess, and i feel sorry for everyone affected.
Agree NLA, you love your kids unconditionally regardless but hopefully can see both the right and wrong of what they do and support them with out condoning all their actions.
there are 2 families destoyed buy this needless act and yet only one gets the support and the condolence,
As some one said earlier there for the grace of god go i
a comment made for times and instances like this
Have to agree with GH, we know the law and more importantly we know the possible human consequences so don't do it.
The biggest problem was that he said he went to bed after 2am and got up to drive at 4:30am. Having dozed for just a couple of hours, was he in a fit state to drive long distance or any distance?
He fell asleep at the wheel.
Have to agree. If he's good enough, then i'm sure there will be someone out there willing to give him another chance, giving it the 'he committed a crime but he's served his sentence and everyone deserves a 2nd chance'. He is only 25 so will be out before he is 30. A lot of keepers play til their late 30s so he could still have 10 years in the game.
I didnt mean therefore the grace of god go i in refrence to the DD i ment in refrence to the fact that we do not know what life choices our siblings will make nor someone else who could make a bad choice. and what negative impact taht could have on any of us
DD is a terrible thing and kills so many and i can not believe the guy was as careless in his choice to drive my concern is that i can choose not to do it and i can educate my son not to do it but i can not gaurentee that he wont do it none of us can and that bad choice can result in someones life being lost even his own and i can only pray and hope that he makes great life choices and i never find myself in the situation of this young mans parents
and there for the grace of god go I