[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Henry here are just a few off the top of my head.
Led Zeppelin,Yes,The Stones,Pink Floyd, The Who,Crosby Stills and Nash,The Grateful Dead,Cream,Deep Purple and to a slightly lesser extent Genesis, Emerson Lake & Palmer and dare I say it even Queen.
There are quite a few more if I cared to think about it for a while.
Some of those bands you've mentioned were pretty good in their day, but they were all on the wane by the time punk came along. What good records did this lot make between them post 1977? As far as I can see, there's just The Wall and Nick Mason's solo album - and that was Carla Bley's work! As for the rest, they'd contributed their bit and could aford to retire without any great loss. Punk allowed a new generation of to take up music, rather than having the entire industry stifled by the big egos of the past.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Danny Kelly[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite] What good records did this lot make between them post 1977? [/quote]
Pink Floyd - Animals 1977
Their best album imo, & as dark and angry as any punk abum at that time...
Pink Floyd's The Final Cut - released in 1983 made a few trenchant comments about war and in particular the Falklands war. How many angry young punks released anti-war songs at that time? I can only think of Elvis Costello and Shipbuilding.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Pink Floyd's The Final Cut - released in 1983 made a few trenchant comments about war and in particular the Falklands war. How many angry young punks released anti-war songs at that time? I can only think of Elvis Costello and Shipbuilding.
Yes, but which is the better record? Shipbuilding of course. A three minute song it had much more impact than some overblown, indulgent album that goes on for ever.
And wasn't that the Special AKA on top of the pops giving clenched fists as they sang "Free Nelson Mandela".
[cite]Posted By: WasCharleyOne[/cite]Johnny Thunders was so right when he sung "London Boys".
IMHO the Pistols are pissed on from a great height by the likes of The Ramones and New York Dolls.
Returning the favour from the Pistols "new york" of course.
The Ramones and the Dolls were great and what Punk was about. Pure pop music at it's most basic and raw. The Pistols were a very English version of the same idea. McClaren managed the Dolls before the Pistols remember.
Yes, but which is the better record? Shipbuilding of course. A three minute song it had much more impact than some overblown, indulgent album that goes on for ever.
...........
The point I'm making is that the number of anti-Falkland War songs is pretty small, and you'd think that more of the punk/post-punk movement would have climbed into Thatcher's war in the south Atlantic. That one of the few musicians to address this topic directly was one of the pretentious old school musicians who were supposedly blown away by punk's arrival contradicts your argument.
Pop musician Elvis Costello wrote the song "Shipbuilding" (1983) with Clive Langer in response to the Falklands War. Written from the point of view of workers in a depressed shipbuilding town, it points out that their jobs come at the expense of the lives lost in the war.
Much material produced around this time by the anarchist punk band Crass was extremely critical of the war and its aftermath, in particular the album Yes Sir, I Will and the singles "Sheep Farming in the Falklands" and "How Does it Feel to be the Mother of 1000 Dead?" The latter, intended as a statement directed at Mrs. Thatcher, led to questions in parliament and a request for prosecution for obscenity from Conservative MP for Enfield North Timothy Eggar [5]. Crass were also responsible for Thatchergate, a hoax tape, originally attributed to the Soviet KGB, on which the spliced voice of Margaret Thatcher appears to imply that the HMS Sheffield was deliberately sacrificed in order to escalate the conflict.
The Falklands War provided much of the subject matter for Pink Floyd's 1983 album The Final Cut, written by Roger Waters. The lyrics are highly critical of perceived British jingoism and of the Thatcher government's actions. A specific lyric protesting the sinking of ARA General Belgrano reads: "Brezhnev took Afghanistan; Begin took Beirut. Galtieri took the Union Jack. And Maggie, over lunch one day, took a cruiser with all hands... apparently to make him give it back."
The folk rock band The Levellers wrote and produced the song "Another Man's Cause" featuring the lyrics "Your daddy well he died in the Falklands."
Macclesfield based punk band The Macc Lads penned a typically un-PC song called "Buenos Aires (1982, Falklands War Mix)" which included lyrics such as "Costas Mendes lives in fear / Of men who drink real beer!" and "hey hey hey / The Boys are on their way / With their planes and tanks and tommy guns / and their bellies full of Boddingtons."
The song "Como Estais Amigos" written by heavy metal band Iron Maiden is a tribute to the Argentinian people and those who fought and died in the Falkland Islands war.
The title track of The Exploited's 1983 album Let's Start a War directly addresses the Falklands War, implying Margaret Thatcher started it almost on a whim, for her own benefit and to take the focus away from other problems Britain was facing at the time such as unemployment.
On their album From Here to Eternity: Live, The Clash, substitute a line in Career Opportunities for "I don't wanna die, fighting in the Falkland Strait" which was a common adlib during their set at the time.
Some people in Britain took the song "Six Months in a Leaky Boat" by the New Zealand pop group Split Enz to be a criticism of the war, and the song was banned by the BBC. The group denied that this was the song's intent [6].
Relating to the sinking of the Belgrano, British garage band Thee Milkshakes recorded the instrumental song "General Belgrano" on their fourth album "The Men With The Golden Guitars" released in 1983. The song begins with the sound of a submarine's sonar.
Punk band New Model Army's "Spirit of the Falklands" took a highly critical stance of the war and its 'selling' to the public by the British Government.
In 2006 Swedish power metal band Sabaton released the album Attero Dominatus, featuring a song entitled "Back In Control", whose subject is the Falklands War. It features lyrics along the lines of "Back in control, push them further out to sea / Falklands in our hands, back under British reign".
Political Singer / Songwriter Billy Bragg's 1983 album Brewing Up with Billy Bragg featured a song Island of no Return, in which a soldier details his experiences 'fighting fascists in the southern sea'. Bragg joined the British Army in 1981, but bought his way out a few months later.
The Falklands Hymn by Iain Dale
The song 'Uninvited Guest' by British group The Christians mentions the Falkland Wars briefly in its lyrics.
American Midwestern Disc-Jockey/Musician Steve Dahl parodied the war using his own lyrics but the music of the J. Geils Band song "Freeze-Frame".
The Finnish rock band Eppu Normaali published a song Argentiina on their LP Tie Vie, comparing the war to a bad football game with cheating, incompetent referee (who understands only baseball) and "the choir of the disappeared" as the cheerleaders.
The Clash make reference to the war in the song This is England
So plenty of punk and post-punk songs and from the old fogies. Well, there was Pink Floyd and what else
So in short we have it, the punk movement was intersesting, however punk music was quite intentionaly f'ing awful! I thank you, game set and match Henry and thanks for not even remotely understanding English rock music prior to the punk scene.You may have studied it and know your subject very well from an acedemic standpoint but you wern't really around to have 'experienced it' at the time as a teenager/aficionado,you were too young as a matter of fact and when your generation eventualy had it's say it was spiteful and dismissive instead of being creative and positive, which severly put the backs up of those of us who loved our music.Punk was a force for destructive behaviour and little creative came out of it, it's a fact, so live with it mate, it's nowt to be ashamed of really, you were simply born 15 years too late Henry,it's a crying shame. I did point out that Queen at least had some musical talent and would (whether you like it or not), still to this day sell out Wembley (not that I particularly like them myself you understand),unlike any 'purist' punk band I've ever come across. By the way, you accused all the others of being buried in coke and booze, erm so not like Punks of course, FFS Henry, come on!
The Ramones, would you honestly call them hard core punk nla, well I know the answer, they of course had worthwhile musical talent and good on 'em. Great debate by the way,I'm really enjoying it.
I dont think i would call them hardcore punk but to be honest i didnt really get the punk movement i was born in 75 so it skipped me by i only know what i was told i have subsequently read.
But the Ramones IMO are up there as one of the best bands excellent in every department, But if you recall Greenday started as a real heavy punk band and ended up as mainstream as Coldplay (dour jees i hate them).
some of the old Greenday stuff their live gigs were awsome and if that was what the first punks were like i would have enjoyed it i reckon. i would have done the hair safety pins and braces
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]So in short we have it, the punk movement was intersesting, however punk music was intentionaly f'ing awful!
I thank you, game set and match Henry and thanks for not even remotely understanding English rock music prior to the punk scene, dissmissing it as 'old fogies' well thanks a fooking million!
I did point out that Queen at least had some musical talent and would (whether you like it or not), still to this day sell out Wembley (not that I particularly like them myself you understand),unlike any 'purist' punk band I've ever come across.
By the way, you accused all the others of being buried in coke and booze,erm so not like Punks of course,FFS Henry!
I didn't say it was Intentionally awful only that passion was more important than technique. As it happens most of the punk musicians were or became as competent as any other rock musicians.
What Punk was about was not valuing 10 minute guitar solos or thinking song cycles about the six wives of Henry XIII or King Arthur were important or somehow "clever". There were tripe. Rock and roll should be about simple music that hits you in the guts. As Marley sang "the one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain". If you want arty farty musicianship try jazz. "Nice"
I understand English Rock music very well prior to Punk which is why knew all those bands (unfortunatley) and know that Cream broke up years before and that the Stones last great album was Exile.
So what if Queen would sell out Wembley. Five millions flies eat shit, can they all be wrong! Well yes actually.
And I never said "all the others" were buried in Coke and booze. I said the rest of CSNY (whose music I love and have on my iPod) were. David Crosby did time for coke possesion and fire a gun around. Stills and Nash were out of it as well. Young over indulged as well. And they are not even British (Ok one of them is)
Punks weren't into coke. Speed and then Herion were the posions of choice. Not any better for you but a bit of speed gives you a different sound to a mountain of Coke.
And there have always been drugs in music. Lennon said it. It was booze in Liverpool, speed in Hamburg, dope in London and then acid and heroin.
As I said loads of great music in the 70s Off the top of my head Little Feat, the Band, Patti Smith, Van Morrison, Dylan (well some of it.), the Faces, Ry Cooder, Steely Dan, The Velvets, Lou Reed, Average White band, Free, Roxy Music, Cat Stevens, The Stones, Elton and the Who (early on), All those pub rock bands and even some of Bowie. And that's not counting all the great reggae and soul music that was coming out then.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]With the amount of X factor and boy bands were are back to 1975. We need a new Pistols to shake it up again. They are out there somewhere, practising in the singer's bedroom or in a garage with the engine running.
You're right that they exist and you don't know who they are, but this is due to the charts not meaning anything any more as most music is downloaded. The chance of a new genre becoming mainstream and revolutionary are therefore a lot rarer but a lot more underground scenes will exist. If you want to hear something newage (nu-age?) look up crunk and grime, I'll be surprised if you like them! I guess the older generations used to turn on the radio if they want to listen to music, I just open up winamp and play stuff that I've downloaded.
Spear of Destiny did a ggod Falklands song called Mickey "No little Mickey's gonna runaway and find himself a war ..." .... can't find the full lyrics anywhere, can anyone help?
I can't believe how polarised this debate is. I can appreciate a bit of Floyd and I love Zappa and Black Sabbath, but much of the prog rock around that time was up its own arse and most of glam was just utter shit that marked a low for British music at the time. There were beacons of quality around, as always (such as Bowie, The Who, Roxy Music, AC/DC, the aforementioned Zappa etc. even Abba who were superb at what they did - pop music). But they were the exception to the rule and the most exciting and creative music around at the time was disco, northern soul and funk - not rock.
But to say that "nothing creative came out of punk" is absolutely staggering. It was arguably the most creative period of british music ever and changed music for the better. To back up the argument by mentioning Queen - well, Boyzone sold a lot of records didn't they? but they're still shit.
Yes, there were a lot of shit punk bands. But are you seriously saying that The Clash, The Buzzcocks, The Ramones, Dead Kennedys etc. which led to "new wave" artists such as Elvis Costello and the Jam and the emergence of Two-Tone West Coast US bands such as Black Flag and The Minutemen and influenced bands like the Smiths (and inumerable indie bands) right up to Nirvana etc. wasn't significant is an utter fucking joke and displays an amazing lack of musical knowledge. To say that musicians do not consider it to have any merit just makes you look ignorant.
OK, I'm ignorant you win. I of course simply haven't a clue,I didn't go to countless concerts from around 63 onwards didn't see Clapton, Hendrix, Elton John, Spencer Davis, David Bowie, Peter Frampton, Georgie Fame,Rod Stewart etc back in the 60's at local venues just walking distance from where I lived. To think I only stood about three feet from all of them on several occasions, you could practicly stand on the stage in those days, they wern't big stars then of course and it only cost a dollar(25p) to get in as well, yep I'm ignorant alright haven't a clue about the music scene, I really should shut the fook up shouldn't I. LOL!! Anyway guys let's agree to disagree, if you think about it we could go on forever couldn't we, in fact thinking about it we almost have. I've had my say on this one!
CommentAuthorbibble CommentTime11 hours ago permalinkquote
"The Sex Pistols were nothing more than a novelty act with him as court jester." You were around in those days then chirpy? If you were ,then you will remember the state of the music, glam rock, actors making shiite songs, very poor, along with The Pistols came the punk movement, and how wonderful it was! It gave kids an identity and something to identify with., Britain was a crap place to live then. The amount of bands that were spawned on the back of the Pistols success was massive. Maclarens management/marketing was superb. Never mind the... is still a powerful album...Pretty Vacant is a great song.
The 2 biggest events that shaped modern music:- Rock n Roll in the 50's and Punk in the 70s, all the rest are along for the ride.
BTW I would suggest that John Lydon is one person, Johhny Rotten is another! [/quote]
Yes I was.
I did not mention Punk, just the joke act that was the Sex Pistols. Steve JOnes and Glen Matlock were decent rock and rollers in their own right, There were better Punk bands.
My word Henry talks some shit doesn't he?
Rock and Roll is as subjective as your football team. This tired old arguement that music was dead in '75 amd Punk gave it the shot in the arm it needed is just bollocks.
However I do agree witht him on the point that there is and has been crap music in every era.
But although I do not like Genisis or Lou Read or Yes or Crosby Stills Nash and Young, I will not call them crap.
I love Bowie, Queen, Zep, Stones, Roxy, Steelye Dan, 10CC, Beatles, Elvis, Who, Rod, Faces, Small Faces, Jam, Duran, ABC, Cher, Floyd, Thin Lizzy, Four Seasons, Status Quo, Clash, Stranglers, Dammed, Doobie Bros, Slade, Sweet, T-Rex, Cliff, Glen Campbell.......the list is endless,
To slag off musical artisits is futile and immature.
FOD said "You're right that they exist and you don't know who they are, but this is due to the charts not meaning anything any more as most music is downloaded. The chance of a new genre becoming mainstream and revolutionary are therefore a lot rarer but a lot more underground scenes will exist. If you want to hear something newage (nu-age?) look up crunk and grime, I'll be surprised if you like them! I guess the older generations used to turn on the radio if they want to listen to music, I just open up winamp and play stuff that I've downloaded."
Spot on and in a way I hope I don't like it. It should be new and different.
As with all art what when it is a new concept - The thesis - it is rejected by the majority - the antithesis - until it becomes excepted - the synthesis. The pattern repeats again and again. Impressionism was rejected as talentless artists who were throwing a bucket of paint in the publics face. It now sells for millions while the "modern" art is laughed at and ridiculed but that, or at least the best of it, will become mainstream.
Soundas - great to see all those band many of which I love but by 1977 most had become tired, overblown and were holding back any new ideas.
Spot on about soul and dance music (and Reggae) being where the creativity was. But that's what I'm saying that "rock" had become tired and stale.
And the Ramones are the quintessentially Punk band. songs 2 min 30 secs long, with three chords, thrashed through and about glue and being a rent boy.
Good point about Genesis et al still selling records. The difference for me is that they were in the charts with the likes or Ian Dury and the Jam. Also punk and new wave was more singles based (a format that the so important prog and heavy rockers rejected - Led Zepp never released a single in the UK)
Good debate, much more interesting than the EU anyway.
So come on Sound as and the rest of you Top 5 Albums of all time.
Mine would be (today at least)
The Clash - The Clash
Blood on the Tracks - Dylan
Blue - Joni Mitchell
Horses - Patti Smith
Transformer - Lou Reed
always change my mind or remember something else but I'll have a go:
The Smiths - The Smiths (1984) The Clash - The Clash (1977) Psychocandy - Jesus & Mary Chain (1986) Power, Corruption & Lies - New Order (1983) Head On The Door - The Cure (1985)
Came late to this message thread and was going to post and reinforce what some others have already stated, i.e. how important punk has been to music. But if you don’t already know, then you ain’t going to listen now. Whether or not they intended to, and even when they had no idea they were doing so, punk bands created music and caused events that would shape the face of music ..... and there was a lot of crap, but there is in any musical era.
The influences that punk left are still resonating today and overflow into music as diverse as The Levellers, Asian Dub Foundation, The Strokes, Arctic Monkeys, The Klaxons, etc.
Top 5 albums: this changes every day, but I'll give it a go:
Stone Roses - The Stone Roses
Asian Dub Foundation – Enemy of the enemy
Sigur Ros – Takk
The Pogues – If I should fall from grace with god
House of Love – The House of Love
But all the below are very close as well:
Carter USM – 101 Damnations
The Chemical Brothers – Surrender
The Cranberries – No need to argue
Culture – Two sevens clash
Bowie – Ziggy Stardust
Green Day – American idiot
Ian Brown – Music of the spheres
Jesus and Mary Chain – Psychocandy
The Killers – Hot fuss
Lou Reed – New York
Muse – Absolution
The Original Mirrors – Heartbeat
The Who – Who’s next
Roy Orbison – Best of
The Smiths – The queen is dead
Visionary Underground – Keep the grime on
Wow - there's been some great one's already listed. Off the top of my head I'd go for these but I might change my mind later:
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here Dandy Warhols - Thirteen Tales From Urban Bohemia Fad Gadget - Gag Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - From Her To Eternity The Fall - This Nations Saving Grace
Changes all the time, the last five I have listened to
Fratellis - Here We Stand
Pink Floyd - Saucer Full of Secrets
Johnny Kidd & The Pirates - Greatest Hits
Stone Roses - Stone Roses
Rochee and the Sarnos - Golden Dawn
Comments
Some of those bands you've mentioned were pretty good in their day, but they were all on the wane by the time punk came along. What good records did this lot make between them post 1977? As far as I can see, there's just The Wall and Nick Mason's solo album - and that was Carla Bley's work! As for the rest, they'd contributed their bit and could aford to retire without any great loss. Punk allowed a new generation of to take up music, rather than having the entire industry stifled by the big egos of the past.
Pink Floyd - Animals 1977
Their best album imo, & as dark and angry as any punk abum at that time...
IMHO the Pistols are pissed on from a great height by the likes of The Ramones and New York Dolls.
Yes, but which is the better record? Shipbuilding of course. A three minute song it had much more impact than some overblown, indulgent album that goes on for ever.
And wasn't that the Special AKA on top of the pops giving clenched fists as they sang "Free Nelson Mandela".
Returning the favour from the Pistols "new york" of course.
The Ramones and the Dolls were great and what Punk was about. Pure pop music at it's most basic and raw. The Pistols were a very English version of the same idea. McClaren managed the Dolls before the Pistols remember.
I was always more of a Clash and Jam fan.
...........
The point I'm making is that the number of anti-Falkland War songs is pretty small, and you'd think that more of the punk/post-punk movement would have climbed into Thatcher's war in the south Atlantic. That one of the few musicians to address this topic directly was one of the pretentious old school musicians who were supposedly blown away by punk's arrival contradicts your argument.
Pop musician Elvis Costello wrote the song "Shipbuilding" (1983) with Clive Langer in response to the Falklands War. Written from the point of view of workers in a depressed shipbuilding town, it points out that their jobs come at the expense of the lives lost in the war.
Much material produced around this time by the anarchist punk band Crass was extremely critical of the war and its aftermath, in particular the album Yes Sir, I Will and the singles "Sheep Farming in the Falklands" and "How Does it Feel to be the Mother of 1000 Dead?" The latter, intended as a statement directed at Mrs. Thatcher, led to questions in parliament and a request for prosecution for obscenity from Conservative MP for Enfield North Timothy Eggar [5]. Crass were also responsible for Thatchergate, a hoax tape, originally attributed to the Soviet KGB, on which the spliced voice of Margaret Thatcher appears to imply that the HMS Sheffield was deliberately sacrificed in order to escalate the conflict.
The Falklands War provided much of the subject matter for Pink Floyd's 1983 album The Final Cut, written by Roger Waters. The lyrics are highly critical of perceived British jingoism and of the Thatcher government's actions. A specific lyric protesting the sinking of ARA General Belgrano reads: "Brezhnev took Afghanistan; Begin took Beirut. Galtieri took the Union Jack. And Maggie, over lunch one day, took a cruiser with all hands... apparently to make him give it back."
The folk rock band The Levellers wrote and produced the song "Another Man's Cause" featuring the lyrics "Your daddy well he died in the Falklands."
Macclesfield based punk band The Macc Lads penned a typically un-PC song called "Buenos Aires (1982, Falklands War Mix)" which included lyrics such as "Costas Mendes lives in fear / Of men who drink real beer!" and "hey hey hey / The Boys are on their way / With their planes and tanks and tommy guns / and their bellies full of Boddingtons."
The song "Como Estais Amigos" written by heavy metal band Iron Maiden is a tribute to the Argentinian people and those who fought and died in the Falkland Islands war.
The title track of The Exploited's 1983 album Let's Start a War directly addresses the Falklands War, implying Margaret Thatcher started it almost on a whim, for her own benefit and to take the focus away from other problems Britain was facing at the time such as unemployment.
On their album From Here to Eternity: Live, The Clash, substitute a line in Career Opportunities for "I don't wanna die, fighting in the Falkland Strait" which was a common adlib during their set at the time.
Some people in Britain took the song "Six Months in a Leaky Boat" by the New Zealand pop group Split Enz to be a criticism of the war, and the song was banned by the BBC. The group denied that this was the song's intent [6].
Relating to the sinking of the Belgrano, British garage band Thee Milkshakes recorded the instrumental song "General Belgrano" on their fourth album "The Men With The Golden Guitars" released in 1983. The song begins with the sound of a submarine's sonar.
Punk band New Model Army's "Spirit of the Falklands" took a highly critical stance of the war and its 'selling' to the public by the British Government.
In 2006 Swedish power metal band Sabaton released the album Attero Dominatus, featuring a song entitled "Back In Control", whose subject is the Falklands War. It features lyrics along the lines of "Back in control, push them further out to sea / Falklands in our hands, back under British reign".
Political Singer / Songwriter Billy Bragg's 1983 album Brewing Up with Billy Bragg featured a song Island of no Return, in which a soldier details his experiences 'fighting fascists in the southern sea'. Bragg joined the British Army in 1981, but bought his way out a few months later.
The Falklands Hymn by Iain Dale
The song 'Uninvited Guest' by British group The Christians mentions the Falkland Wars briefly in its lyrics.
American Midwestern Disc-Jockey/Musician Steve Dahl parodied the war using his own lyrics but the music of the J. Geils Band song "Freeze-Frame".
The Finnish rock band Eppu Normaali published a song Argentiina on their LP Tie Vie, comparing the war to a bad football game with cheating, incompetent referee (who understands only baseball) and "the choir of the disappeared" as the cheerleaders.
The Clash make reference to the war in the song This is England
So plenty of punk and post-punk songs and from the old fogies. Well, there was Pink Floyd and what else
I thank you, game set and match Henry and thanks for not even remotely understanding English rock music prior to the punk scene.You may have studied it and know your subject very well from an acedemic standpoint but you wern't really around to have 'experienced it' at the time as a teenager/aficionado,you were too young as a matter of fact and when your generation eventualy had it's say it was spiteful and dismissive instead of being creative and positive, which severly put the backs up of those of us who loved our music.Punk was a force for destructive behaviour and little creative came out of it, it's a fact, so live with it mate, it's nowt to be ashamed of really, you were simply born 15 years too late Henry,it's a crying shame.
I did point out that Queen at least had some musical talent and would (whether you like it or not), still to this day sell out Wembley (not that I particularly like them myself you understand),unlike any 'purist' punk band I've ever come across.
By the way, you accused all the others of being buried in coke and booze, erm so not like Punks of course, FFS Henry, come on!
true about the Ramones one of my favorite all time bands i listen now to new music and refer too most as having a ramones influence
Great debate by the way,I'm really enjoying it.
But the Ramones IMO are up there as one of the best bands excellent in every department, But if you recall Greenday started as a real heavy punk band and ended up as mainstream as Coldplay (dour jees i hate them).
some of the old Greenday stuff their live gigs were awsome and if that was what the first punks were like i would have enjoyed it i reckon. i would have done the hair safety pins and braces
I didn't say it was Intentionally awful only that passion was more important than technique. As it happens most of the punk musicians were or became as competent as any other rock musicians.
What Punk was about was not valuing 10 minute guitar solos or thinking song cycles about the six wives of Henry XIII or King Arthur were important or somehow "clever". There were tripe. Rock and roll should be about simple music that hits you in the guts. As Marley sang "the one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain". If you want arty farty musicianship try jazz. "Nice"
I understand English Rock music very well prior to Punk which is why knew all those bands (unfortunatley) and know that Cream broke up years before and that the Stones last great album was Exile.
So what if Queen would sell out Wembley. Five millions flies eat shit, can they all be wrong! Well yes actually.
And I never said "all the others" were buried in Coke and booze. I said the rest of CSNY (whose music I love and have on my iPod) were. David Crosby did time for coke possesion and fire a gun around. Stills and Nash were out of it as well. Young over indulged as well. And they are not even British (Ok one of them is)
Punks weren't into coke. Speed and then Herion were the posions of choice. Not any better for you but a bit of speed gives you a different sound to a mountain of Coke.
And there have always been drugs in music. Lennon said it. It was booze in Liverpool, speed in Hamburg, dope in London and then acid and heroin.
As I said loads of great music in the 70s Off the top of my head Little Feat, the Band, Patti Smith, Van Morrison, Dylan (well some of it.), the Faces, Ry Cooder, Steely Dan, The Velvets, Lou Reed, Average White band, Free, Roxy Music, Cat Stevens, The Stones, Elton and the Who (early on), All those pub rock bands and even some of Bowie. And that's not counting all the great reggae and soul music that was coming out then.
"No little Mickey's gonna runaway and find himself a war ..." .... can't find the full lyrics anywhere, can anyone help?
But to say that "nothing creative came out of punk" is absolutely staggering. It was arguably the most creative period of british music ever and changed music for the better. To back up the argument by mentioning Queen - well, Boyzone sold a lot of records didn't they? but they're still shit.
Yes, there were a lot of shit punk bands. But are you seriously saying that The Clash, The Buzzcocks, The Ramones, Dead Kennedys etc. which led to "new wave" artists such as Elvis Costello and the Jam and the emergence of Two-Tone West Coast US bands such as Black Flag and The Minutemen and influenced bands like the Smiths (and inumerable indie bands) right up to Nirvana etc. wasn't significant is an utter fucking joke and displays an amazing lack of musical knowledge. To say that musicians do not consider it to have any merit just makes you look ignorant.
Did Punk really achieve this Henry? I know it is a comment you have made both times the punk debate has come up.
Let's look at the three bands which you appear to have put at the top of your trash list, Genesis, Queen and Pink Floyd.
Genesis No1 Albums Pre 77 0 Post 77 6 ( + 6 solo)
Queen No1 Albums Pre 77 2 Post 77 7
Floyd No1 Albums Pre 77 2 Post 77 3
There is no argument that all of these bands became much bigger post 77. The flies continued to eat the shit as you put it, Punk failed.
I of course simply haven't a clue,I didn't go to countless concerts from around 63 onwards didn't see Clapton, Hendrix, Elton John, Spencer Davis, David Bowie, Peter Frampton, Georgie Fame,Rod Stewart etc back in the 60's at local venues just walking distance from where I lived.
To think I only stood about three feet from all of them on several occasions, you could practicly stand on the stage in those days, they wern't big stars then of course and it only cost a dollar(25p) to get in as well, yep I'm ignorant alright haven't a clue about the music scene, I really should shut the fook up shouldn't I. LOL!!
Anyway guys let's agree to disagree, if you think about it we could go on forever couldn't we, in fact thinking about it we almost have.
I've had my say on this one!
"The Sex Pistols were nothing more than a novelty act with him as court jester." You were around in those days then chirpy? If you were ,then you will remember the state of the music, glam rock, actors making shiite songs, very poor, along with The Pistols came the punk movement, and how wonderful it was! It gave kids an identity and something to identify with., Britain was a crap place to live then. The amount of bands that were spawned on the back of the Pistols success was massive. Maclarens management/marketing was superb. Never mind the... is still a powerful album...Pretty Vacant is a great song.
The 2 biggest events that shaped modern music:- Rock n Roll in the 50's and Punk in the 70s, all the rest are along for the ride.
BTW I would suggest that John Lydon is one person, Johhny Rotten is another! [/quote]
Yes I was.
I did not mention Punk, just the joke act that was the Sex Pistols. Steve JOnes and Glen Matlock were decent rock and rollers in their own right, There were better Punk bands.
My word Henry talks some shit doesn't he?
Rock and Roll is as subjective as your football team. This tired old arguement that music was dead in '75 amd Punk gave it the shot in the arm it needed is just bollocks.
However I do agree witht him on the point that there is and has been crap music in every era.
But although I do not like Genisis or Lou Read or Yes or Crosby Stills Nash and Young, I will not call them crap.
I love Bowie, Queen, Zep, Stones, Roxy, Steelye Dan, 10CC, Beatles, Elvis, Who, Rod, Faces, Small Faces, Jam, Duran, ABC, Cher, Floyd, Thin Lizzy, Four Seasons, Status Quo, Clash, Stranglers, Dammed, Doobie Bros, Slade, Sweet, T-Rex, Cliff, Glen Campbell.......the list is endless,
To slag off musical artisits is futile and immature.
Spot on and in a way I hope I don't like it. It should be new and different.
As with all art what when it is a new concept - The thesis - it is rejected by the majority - the antithesis - until it becomes excepted - the synthesis. The pattern repeats again and again. Impressionism was rejected as talentless artists who were throwing a bucket of paint in the publics face. It now sells for millions while the "modern" art is laughed at and ridiculed but that, or at least the best of it, will become mainstream.
Soundas - great to see all those band many of which I love but by 1977 most had become tired, overblown and were holding back any new ideas.
Spot on about soul and dance music (and Reggae) being where the creativity was. But that's what I'm saying that "rock" had become tired and stale.
And the Ramones are the quintessentially Punk band. songs 2 min 30 secs long, with three chords, thrashed through and about glue and being a rent boy.
Good point about Genesis et al still selling records. The difference for me is that they were in the charts with the likes or Ian Dury and the Jam. Also punk and new wave was more singles based (a format that the so important prog and heavy rockers rejected - Led Zepp never released a single in the UK)
Good debate, much more interesting than the EU anyway.
So come on Sound as and the rest of you Top 5 Albums of all time.
Mine would be (today at least)
The Clash - The Clash
Blood on the Tracks - Dylan
Blue - Joni Mitchell
Horses - Patti Smith
Transformer - Lou Reed
The Smiths - The Smiths (1984)
The Clash - The Clash (1977)
Psychocandy - Jesus & Mary Chain (1986)
Power, Corruption & Lies - New Order (1983)
Head On The Door - The Cure (1985)
The influences that punk left are still resonating today and overflow into music as diverse as The Levellers, Asian Dub Foundation, The Strokes, Arctic Monkeys, The Klaxons, etc.
Top 5 albums: this changes every day, but I'll give it a go:
Stone Roses - The Stone Roses
Asian Dub Foundation – Enemy of the enemy
Sigur Ros – Takk
The Pogues – If I should fall from grace with god
House of Love – The House of Love
But all the below are very close as well:
Carter USM – 101 Damnations
The Chemical Brothers – Surrender
The Cranberries – No need to argue
Culture – Two sevens clash
Bowie – Ziggy Stardust
Green Day – American idiot
Ian Brown – Music of the spheres
Jesus and Mary Chain – Psychocandy
The Killers – Hot fuss
Lou Reed – New York
Muse – Absolution
The Original Mirrors – Heartbeat
The Who – Who’s next
Roy Orbison – Best of
The Smiths – The queen is dead
Visionary Underground – Keep the grime on
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
Dandy Warhols - Thirteen Tales From Urban Bohemia
Fad Gadget - Gag
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - From Her To Eternity
The Fall - This Nations Saving Grace
Fratellis - Here We Stand
Pink Floyd - Saucer Full of Secrets
Johnny Kidd & The Pirates - Greatest Hits
Stone Roses - Stone Roses
Rochee and the Sarnos - Golden Dawn
New one for me P. What's it like?
Google Rochee and the Sarnos and go to the myspace page for a sample.
I think you might like it...
Pulp - Different Class
Beck - Mutations
The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
Carter - Post Historic Monsters
Killers - Hot Fuss