Tens of thousands of people saw Queen etc. in stadiums - does that mean they are all experts in music as well then? Seeing great musicians doesn't automatically make you a musical genius.
I have played music and been surrounded by others who do (some professionally, others not) nearly all my life. People who don't play music cannot talk about the musicianship involved in it with the same authority as those who understand it intrinsically. Simple as that. I'm not saying that non-musicians do not have valid musical opinions but if you are going to talk about 'musicianship' it pays to understand the craft firsthand.
It sounds like some people are stuck in one particular time period (this is easy to do and I suggest that an antidote should be to listen to new music as often as possible - try the excellent BBC Six Music; it is an easy listen as it mixes in new music with old and is presented and listened to by people who truly love music)
I used to get amused by a few people who I met at university who thought that music basically stopped around 1976 and nothing good was made after that date. I think the point that has been made about not understanding new music, but being glad that it is being made is a good one. That's why manufactured music (TV 'talent' contests etc.) is an anathema for music and adds nothing to it: it is music conceived and marketed (purely for financial reasons) by old people played by young people who should be doing their own thing. Whether the older generation like what younger people come up with or not is irrelevant and they should rightly ignore our opinions.
Top 5 - too difficult to attempt, but well done to those who try - some very good albums being suggested...
But of course, you are right - we all have different tastes and so this a very subjective argument. I love music which is why I am passionate about it and I apologise if I get over animated about it...
Good effort, Algarve. You have diverse musical tastes which is a really healthy thing IMHO.
As I get older, my taste in music is actually expanding as I get introduced to quality music from areas that I never thought I would ever go near. When I was 20 I had a hatred of 'hippy' and prog rock type music. However, I met people who introduced me to some quality tunes and ended up going to see people like Gong and The Wizards of Twiddly and actually enjoying it!
Likewise, I always thought I hated 50s type rock and roll - and now I can actually enjoy listening to a little Gene Vincent etc. and I think that some of the young 'rockabilly' type groups on the circuit at the moment (e.g Hyperjax) are some of the most entertaining and enjoyable bands around (and good musicians to boot; have you ever tried to play a double bass at 120 bpm?)
I can honestly say that are hardly any musical genres that I won't touch - I can't see myself getting into Boyzone etc. but you never know! In music you need an open mind.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]
People who don't play music cannot talk about the musicianship involved in it with the same authority as those who understand it intrinsically. Simple as that. I'm not saying that non-musicians do not have valid musical pinions but if you are going to talk about 'musicianship' it pays to understand the craft firsthand.
Whilst I can't say I disagree with you, I do think that there is a danger in this argument of potentially discounting (or at least undermining) the valid opinions of non-musicians. One of the great pleasures of any art form is witnessing performances that you know that you couldn't manage for yourself. After all, how many of us would visit the Valley regularly if we possessed the silky skills of Marcus Bent for ourselves? Similarly sometimes with music there is an awe, a wow factor, that cannot be as heightened for those in the know. Further, being a talented musician doesn't necessarily mean that your musical opinions, or preferences hold any more value than those of someone who has never been near an instrument in their life. I'm sure that the majority of people who produce boy band music have far more musical talent than the majority of those that criticise them, but I know whose opinions I'd take more notice of.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]Good effort, Algarve. You have diverse musical tastes which is a really healthy thing IMHO.
As I get older, my taste in music is actually expanding as I get introduced to quality music from areas that I never thought I would ever go near. In music you need an open mind.
This is spot on for me too. My taste has broadened considerably with age, but I've made a point of deliberately trying to be more open minded about music. But, I see other people of my age and they are stuck in a rut and still listening exclusively to Dylan/Abba/Elvis/whatever. I think this is something that needs to be worked at and doesn't necessarily come naturally.
As always I'm quoting John Lennon when he said the music you grow up with will always be the best but I still find music now that I like and enjoy as well as discovering older music I missed out on or that was around before I was born.
I would love to be a great musician or even a semi-decent one but while I can admire Michael Bolton's talent I find his voice bland and uninteresting. Same with most modern jazz. Sure they can play but it really does sound like the jazz club sketches on the Fast Show to me. Nice!
I personally appreciate music and other art on an emotional level not a technical one. If you need to have an arts degree to appreciate a painting then it and the artist has, IMHO, failed. The same with film and music. You can still investigate and look in more detail but if the initial hook isn't there then why bother.
So Duffy, the new Dusty or the new Charlotte Church?
Having downloaded Warwick Avenue I'm leaning towards Dusty.
CommentAuthorbibble CommentTime4 days ago permalinkquote "The Sex Pistols were nothing more than a novelty act with him as court jester." You were around in those days then chirpy? If you were ,then you will remember the state of the music, glam rock, actors making shiite songs, very poor, along with The Pistols came the punk movement, and how wonderful it was! It gave kids an identity and something to identify with., Britain was a crap place to live then. The amount of bands that were spawned on the back of the Pistols success was massive. Maclarens management/marketing was superb. Never mind the... is still a powerful album...Pretty Vacant is a great song. The 2 biggest events that shaped modern music:- Rock n Roll in the 50's and Punk in the 70s, all the rest are along for the ride. BTW I would suggest that John Lydon is one person, Johhny Rotten is another!
CommentAuthorbibble CommentTime4 days ago permalinkquote "The Sex Pistols were nothing more than a novelty act with him as court jester." You were around in those days then chirpy? If you were ,then you will remember the state of the music, glam rock, actors making shiite songs, very poor, along with The Pistols came the punk movement, and how wonderful it was! It gave kids an identity and something to identify with., Britain was a crap place to live then. The amount of bands that were spawned on the back of the Pistols success was massive. Maclarens management/marketing was superb. Never mind the... is still a powerful album...Pretty Vacant is a great song. The 2 biggest events that shaped modern music:- Rock n Roll in the 50's and Punk in the 70s, all the rest are along for the ride. BTW I would suggest that John Lydon is one person, Johhny Rotten is another!
CommentAuthorbibble CommentTime4 days ago permalinkquote "The Sex Pistols were nothing more than a novelty act with him as court jester." You were around in those days then chirpy? If you were ,then you will remember the state of the music, glam rock, actors making shiite songs, very poor, along with The Pistols came the punk movement, and how wonderful it was! It gave kids an identity and something to identify with., Britain was a crap place to live then. The amount of bands that were spawned on the back of the Pistols success was massive. Maclarens management/marketing was superb. Never mind the... is still a powerful album...Pretty Vacant is a great song. The 2 biggest events that shaped modern music:- Rock n Roll in the 50's and Punk in the 70s, all the rest are along for the ride. BTW I would suggest that John Lydon is one person, Johhny Rotten is another!
Sorry, completely disagree. The Pistols WERE a novelty act that cleaned up on the back of the Punk movement that grew up in NY. In the grand scheme of things they were no better or more relevant than any of the overblown rock bands that they sought to overthrow. They were basically a boy band performing a take on what McLaren had heard the Ramones and New York Dolls doing, earlier. There's an idea, in the UK, that the Pistols invented punk and that is laughable. It's like saying the Premiership invented football. It might have made it more popular and visible but didn't actually spawn anything
The Ramones may have been "Punk" as may have been Lou Reid but they never invented it and wouldnt have known what "Punk" was until the UK told em what "Punk" was .
I think John Lydon can be a very deep, thoughtful and considerate person but he alters as soon as a camera or microphone goes anywhere near him. He has a role to play and cannot let it go and let his "Rotten" facade drop.
When he was booked to go on Fantasy league Football the crew were suprised when he turned up prerecording and turned out to be a highly articulate and friendly man, which totally alterred when filming started. Which does not really make a difference but unlike others he got where he is by finding a niche and exploiting it with a lot of hard work
[quote][cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]The Ramones may have been "Punk" as may have been Lou Reid but they never invented it and wouldnt have known what "Punk" was until the UK told em what "Punk" was .[/quote]
Umm. Punk magazine (from NY) coined the phrase. That's where McLaren got it from. It was used in the States by the fanzine and on T Shirts, to refer to the music a good year before the Pistols started putting out records.
Punk as a yoof culture didnt start in the USA. The Ramones /Lou Reed whoever didnt know they were "punk" until we told them ! The Pistols werent the leaders, just a bief highest profile. It has even been said the Mark Bolan of T Rex was one of the first punks.
Comments
Larry Grayson was gay? Blimey, he hid that well.
Lydon employs one of arsenals boys as his minder, proper mentalcase/pain in the arse.
BTW, 'Strangeways Here We Come' is The Smiths greatest album.
Yeah, he was honest. Hard to believe but true.
Pretty good, has an eclectic mix of musical influences!
I have played music and been surrounded by others who do (some professionally, others not) nearly all my life.
People who don't play music cannot talk about the musicianship involved in it with the same authority as those who understand it intrinsically. Simple as that. I'm not saying that non-musicians do not have valid musical opinions but if you are going to talk about 'musicianship' it pays to understand the craft firsthand.
It sounds like some people are stuck in one particular time period (this is easy to do and I suggest that an antidote should be to listen to new music as often as possible - try the excellent BBC Six Music; it is an easy listen as it mixes in new music with old and is presented and listened to by people who truly love music)
I used to get amused by a few people who I met at university who thought that music basically stopped around 1976 and nothing good was made after that date. I think the point that has been made about not understanding new music, but being glad that it is being made is a good one. That's why manufactured music (TV 'talent' contests etc.) is an anathema for music and adds nothing to it: it is music conceived and marketed (purely for financial reasons) by old people played by young people who should be doing their own thing. Whether the older generation like what younger people come up with or not is irrelevant and they should rightly ignore our opinions.
Top 5 - too difficult to attempt, but well done to those who try - some very good albums being suggested...
But of course, you are right - we all have different tastes and so this a very subjective argument. I love music which is why I am passionate about it and I apologise if I get over animated about it...
As you say musicianship is a different thing from songwriting.
Hope you noticed my current playlist stretches from 1959 to this month...
As I get older, my taste in music is actually expanding as I get introduced to quality music from areas that I never thought I would ever go near. When I was 20 I had a hatred of 'hippy' and prog rock type music. However, I met people who introduced me to some quality tunes and ended up going to see people like Gong and The Wizards of Twiddly and actually enjoying it!
Likewise, I always thought I hated 50s type rock and roll - and now I can actually enjoy listening to a little Gene Vincent etc. and I think that some of the young 'rockabilly' type groups on the circuit at the moment (e.g Hyperjax) are some of the most entertaining and enjoyable bands around (and good musicians to boot; have you ever tried to play a double bass at 120 bpm?)
I can honestly say that are hardly any musical genres that I won't touch - I can't see myself getting into Boyzone etc. but you never know! In music you need an open mind.
Whilst I can't say I disagree with you, I do think that there is a danger in this argument of potentially discounting (or at least undermining) the valid opinions of non-musicians. One of the great pleasures of any art form is witnessing performances that you know that you couldn't manage for yourself. After all, how many of us would visit the Valley regularly if we possessed the silky skills of Marcus Bent for ourselves? Similarly sometimes with music there is an awe, a wow factor, that cannot be as heightened for those in the know. Further, being a talented musician doesn't necessarily mean that your musical opinions, or preferences hold any more value than those of someone who has never been near an instrument in their life. I'm sure that the majority of people who produce boy band music have far more musical talent than the majority of those that criticise them, but I know whose opinions I'd take more notice of.
This is spot on for me too. My taste has broadened considerably with age, but I've made a point of deliberately trying to be more open minded about music. But, I see other people of my age and they are stuck in a rut and still listening exclusively to Dylan/Abba/Elvis/whatever. I think this is something that needs to be worked at and doesn't necessarily come naturally.
I would love to be a great musician or even a semi-decent one but while I can admire Michael Bolton's talent I find his voice bland and uninteresting. Same with most modern jazz. Sure they can play but it really does sound like the jazz club sketches on the Fast Show to me. Nice!
I personally appreciate music and other art on an emotional level not a technical one. If you need to have an arts degree to appreciate a painting then it and the artist has, IMHO, failed. The same with film and music. You can still investigate and look in more detail but if the initial hook isn't there then why bother.
So Duffy, the new Dusty or the new Charlotte Church?
Having downloaded Warwick Avenue I'm leaning towards Dusty.
I always thought that music should make you feel something - it doesn't matter what...
...unfortunately it breaks down when I hear Westlife because it just....makes...me...feel...sick.
LOL at least it got a reaction.
Quo - Live
Tres Hombres - ZZ Top
Beggars Banquet - The Stones
461 Ocean Boulevard - EC
Never Mind The Bollox - Sex Pistols
These might change tomorrow.
"The Sex Pistols were nothing more than a novelty act with him as court jester." You were around in those days then chirpy? If you were ,then you will remember the state of the music, glam rock, actors making shiite songs, very poor, along with The Pistols came the punk movement, and how wonderful it was! It gave kids an identity and something to identify with., Britain was a crap place to live then. The amount of bands that were spawned on the back of the Pistols success was massive. Maclarens management/marketing was superb. Never mind the... is still a powerful album...Pretty Vacant is a great song.
The 2 biggest events that shaped modern music:- Rock n Roll in the 50's and Punk in the 70s, all the rest are along for the ride.
BTW I would suggest that John Lydon is one person, Johhny Rotten is another! CommentAuthorbibble CommentTime4 days ago permalinkquote
"The Sex Pistols were nothing more than a novelty act with him as court jester." You were around in those days then chirpy? If you were ,then you will remember the state of the music, glam rock, actors making shiite songs, very poor, along with The Pistols came the punk movement, and how wonderful it was! It gave kids an identity and something to identify with., Britain was a crap place to live then. The amount of bands that were spawned on the back of the Pistols success was massive. Maclarens management/marketing was superb. Never mind the... is still a powerful album...Pretty Vacant is a great song.
The 2 biggest events that shaped modern music:- Rock n Roll in the 50's and Punk in the 70s, all the rest are along for the ride.
BTW I would suggest that John Lydon is one person, Johhny Rotten is another!
Sorry, completely disagree. The Pistols WERE a novelty act that cleaned up on the back of the Punk movement that grew up in NY. In the grand scheme of things they were no better or more relevant than any of the overblown rock bands that they sought to overthrow. They were basically a boy band performing a take on what McLaren had heard the Ramones and New York Dolls doing, earlier. There's an idea, in the UK, that the Pistols invented punk and that is laughable. It's like saying the Premiership invented football. It might have made it more popular and visible but didn't actually spawn anything
When he was booked to go on Fantasy league Football the crew were suprised when he turned up prerecording and turned out to be a highly articulate and friendly man, which totally alterred when filming started. Which does not really make a difference but unlike others he got where he is by finding a niche and exploiting it with a lot of hard work
Harsh, but true....I still think we should have got some sort of advertising campaign out of that!!!
Umm. Punk magazine (from NY) coined the phrase. That's where McLaren got it from. It was used in the States by the fanzine and on T Shirts, to refer to the music a good year before the Pistols started putting out records.
It has even been said the Mark Bolan of T Rex was one of the first punks.