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CAFC and money

edited July 2008 in General Charlton
I just cant see this "huge" debt thing.

Ok so not all the debt was covered by the recent share issue , but have we forgotten that the Reid money wasnt spent on transfers ? We have also receieved money from Palarse for Mcarthy and only spent £250,000 isnt on one player. We received (or will) the parashute money.

Yes there will be less gate money this year as our average crowds will be down from last year, bur Pards has been told to run with a smaller squad.

Its tradition that we "have no money" and sometimes makes perfect sense to say so when trying to keep transfers fees paid down, but it looks awful at the moment. So many clubs in this league are spending , clubs that have always been potless yet we are telling the World we are skint ? Who would want to came here ? who would want to buy the club?

Our own players see people going and players from none league coming in.


Whilst i didnt expect big money thrown about this year i did think we would have £1-2 milion without selling (other than Bent/Faye).

This weekend and the rumours of this huge debt are worrying and its all a bit more gloomy than it was last week.
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    I agree, GH. I find it all a bit puzzling - thought selling Baby Bent plus all the cuts last year should have put us on a fairly level playing field for this year with most of the others in the division, not leave us scrabbling after scraps, pleading poverty and announcing a fire sale.

    Is anyone able to do some rough sums? How much is the parachute money? Is it that some of the current directors want to take money out? (I'm not criticising after all they've put in over the years.)
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    WSSWSS
    edited July 2008
    Saying we have a huge debt is bit OTT in my opinion and i bet the majority of clubs in the Premiership and the Football League would love to have our debt of "only £5m".

    Another thing is that there is still almost 6 weeks of a transfer window to go and Pardew has said he wants to bring in two or three players that i can only think will be proven players in that position to a certain degree.

    Some of the Reid money went on Gray I think.
    [cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Is it that some of the current directors want to take money out? (I'm not criticising after all they've put in over the years.)
    Did they not put in £14m between them last season?
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    I have been concerned with money for a while but thought it must be me as it has not been mentioned.

    With the players offloaded when we went down all theat wage saved as well as transfer money.

    Staff being laid off parachute payments

    And now still in teh same boat selling decent players only to get average in there place

    If we dont go up were does that leave the club??
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    150k was spent on Fleetwood
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    i intend to write a piece in the next couple of days, and am interested in others views.
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    It leaves the club fooked mate. Look at those that have gone before us for evidence of that. There but for the grace of God ..., etc. Hopefully our board can manage things and cut their cloth better than the likes of Leicester, Derby, Southampton, Palace, Sheff Wed, Leeds .... etc, etc - so fingers crossed!

    Anyone who doesn't think we have money issues is either a fool or has got their head in the sand. The days of selling a player for £1million and having £1million to spend on a replacement are long, long gone - the spiralling wages of our current "slaves" has put paid to that.

    Serious question. If we get, say, £1million for Marcus Bent, how long do you think we could pay Amdy Faye's wages for? Not very long is the answer.
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    [cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]If we dont go up were does that leave the club??
    I think thats exactly it leftbehind.

    Do we risk all now and plan as if to go up or are we semi-cautious just in case it doesnt happen?

    I asked this question at CA and it was said that it would be stupid to not think about being in this division for longer than we hoped. I'd rather we were a little cautious and underspend than overspend, fail to go up and end up like Leceister, Southampton, Coventry, Sheff Weds etc.
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    We are not that bad off the Board have insisted that £5m of cuts had to be made before we could get anyone in, this includes staff, players & wages. We get three or four out of the door problem solved. Indeed with McCarthy, Big Chris & probably Bent already out the door we are nearly home & hosed.

    This is all of Pards doing anyway, he said he would sell a load of players providing he got money for players in January, he got Gray, he got Lita, He got Cook, He got Halford, he did not get rid of anyone till Andy Reid on the last Day. Board probably don't trust him to trim squad if they give him the money upfront, hence the apparent Transfer Embargo.

    We are certainly not in Debt though just re-streamlining the Business for the new season, spin it how you want.
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    I think its not an urgently paid back defecit, but not as favourable as the form of credit achieve using the share issue where we converted say £15m but were unable to do the remaining £5m of this debt. I guess the main concern is whether it is acceptable level of debt - and whether it needs to be paid off straight away, or not?
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    [cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]We are not that bad off the Board have insisted that £5m of cuts had to be made before we could get anyone in, this includes staff, players & wages. We get three or four out of the door problem solved. Indeed with McCarthy, Big Chris & probably Bent already out the door we are nearly home & hosed.

    That was my initial thought, but I'm led to believe what you're saying is underplaying it a bit.
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    [cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]
    We are certainly not in Debt though just re-streamlining the Business for the new season, spin it how you want.

    Of course we're in debt - how ridiculous a statement is that?!!!!!

    Whether it's "acceptable debt" or "manageable debt" is of course a completely different concept - but to suggest we are debt free is ludicrous. Spin that how you want!
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    edited July 2008
    Go back down the Pub Offy :-)
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    There aint to many footie clubs in the World that are debt free. I didnt and dont expect us to be. Its a long way down from the Prem. I was hoping we would break the bank for the mid field general (should he be out there) didnt expect to be grubbing round for a bit of chane and the big issue.

    I hope what ever we get for Bent/Big Chris can be spent , i hope some1 any 1 takes faye away, and we dont sell Boogie. Somehow though its just got depressing.
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    It was gambling on being in the Prem for the next season that got us into this debt, we shouldn't do it again.

    I see what is happening as welcome prudence, ensuring that if we fail to go up we will still be in a (relatively) decent financial situation for years to come.

    Obviously there is a balance to be struck though and so we should not sell the magic one!
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    Where's Henry he should be able to answer this quandry?

    I reckon the club could be overplaying it so people don't hike the price when we coming knocking, like they probably did last year with McLeod.
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    Razil how does that work ? if we are potless wouldnt they offer less money ?

    Looks like that may have happened with Big Chris already. Guzzundered i think they call it.
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    ah yes it works the other way around of course, but then we know we aren't (when we're selling) whereas they don't we aren't (when we're buying), erm I think..?
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    edited July 2008
    [cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Go back down the Pub Offy :-)

    There's gratitude for you. I give you a lesson in finance and you that's all you come back with.
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    edited July 2008
    :-)
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    Would it be possible to do an easy money in money out schedule starting with transfer money in....tv money....tickets sales etc etc....maybe i could dig deep this year and but a wimpy burger inside of the ground rather than a dodgy in Floyd Road Harvey gardens.........trouble is they taste better ....so in few years we have gone from well run club .....* we want to do a charlton * to a club in debt.....i think its proberly not as bad as it looks......but guess if they could jump in the Tardis the board would do a few things differant
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    perhaps the money received from players isn't all received in one go, and therefore not available to spend on another player in one go? we obviously punched above our weight for a few seasons and changed from a champ club in the prem to an established prem club with prem wages, premier size back room staff, premier size office staff, premier size care-free attitude, and due to the non return to the premiership we're downsizing to champ club again to start it all off again.

    I think the amount spent 2/3 years ago was well out of our means and we're still paying for that. its easy to think that money that comes in can go straight on another player but there are high wages that have come down but still some are unreasonable and contracts aren't so easy to get out of so costs are still high.

    I don't think we're in dire trouble, just a few cut backs. everyone wants the excitement of new expensive well known experienced great players, but its very unlikely. I don't think we're too different to other champ clubs, but they have a steady budget where as ours had a big change in the last 2 years so we're just balancing the books I'm sure.
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    [cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]If we dont go up were does that leave the club??


    I'd like to think all these cut backs now are to ensure we are financial OK if we don't go up, rather than risking everything to get up.
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    that's right Suzi the money on transfer fees is split over 1 to 2
    years just remind me how much we generated on players going out last summer therefore
    we should begin to see some of that money within the forthcoming months
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    but things weren't at a standstill for the past 2 years until that money came in. all money is budgeted in for running costs, not necessarily for new transfers.

    did we generate that much then last year?
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    £16M for Baby Bent, wasn't it?! Plus some for Diawara.
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    plus money goes out for our purchases as well, which would perhaps take this money? also when players bought make so many appearances more money goes out? if our sold players don't play, we might not get money.

    I dont know the ins and outs but I just don't think it is as simple as we think it is.
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    edited July 2008
    There can't be many left with "Premiership" contracts.

    Bent M
    Faye
    Bougherra
    Thomas J
    Ambrose
    Fortune

    The others have either all gone or subsequently signed new deals which presumably take account of our reduced status.

    Of those listed it would appear the first three named have one foot out of the door and JT is probably desperately hanging onto Marcus' coat tail.

    We bought ZZ when we knew we were a Championship club.
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    [cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]£16M for Baby Bent, wasn't it?! Plus some for Diawara.

    that was divided over a few years in small amounts and I'm sure the amount was "up to 16m" ie, the actual figure wasn't even that much, plus money still owed to wherever we got him from took it down a lot. if he gets sold on i'm sure we'd get a cut but only if they get more for him than they paid - not likely!
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    [cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]£16M for Baby Bent, wasn't it?! Plus some for Diawara.

    that was divided over a few years in small amounts and I'm sure the amount was "up to 16m" ie, the actual figure wasn't even that much, plus money still owed to wherever we got him from took it down a lot. if he gets sold on i'm sure we'd get a cut but only if they get more for him than they paid - not likely!

    I'm pretty sure that every penny from the Bent deal is gone. Something to do with a deal for taking a lower amount quicker. The mightier may know the full ins and outs of it.
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    The deal for Benty was worth a potential £16M - but a quarter went to Ipswich, so in theory that left up to £12M to us - but that was spread over several years and some of it was performance based.

    We sold the debt on so we could get as much money as possible up front, so we probably got something like £10M?

    And there is no way we would get anything if he gets sold on.
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