OK, can't start quoting figures that aren't in the public domain but there are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up.
We won't get £16.5 for Bent because some of it was add ons and a chunk goes to Ipswich as part of their sell on fee.
As for Iwelumo going from £900k to £400k in a day. No he didn't. £900k came from where? Certainly not Charlton.
Yes, lots of money raised from transfers but the Reid money was not all up front for example. And as the example above proves what appears in the papers, the internet or even on CL (sorry AFKA) isn't always gospel
Most importantly the club still has on going costs mainly wages to players. Every loan player costs (Sinclair was on a pretty penny plus there was Sodje, Halford, Cook Uncle Tom Cobbly and all), every squad player costs. Last year we bought ZZ, (£2m?) Gray (£1.5m) , Racon (400K?) Paddy (£650k? plus a few bags of hay), Varney (£2m)plus a few others on "free" transfers that involve signing on fees and of course wages like Weaver, Mou2, Semedo. We had a very big squad all of whom (other than Bent and some of Faye) had to be paid.
We also had to run the stadium which isn't cheap either. A lot of other costs were cut last year (£16.5m) because our income dropped dramatically. Not just the TV money but ticket and commercial income.
For what we paid that squad massively underperformed for which you can choose to blame Pardew, Andrew Mills, Goonerhater or Richard Murray. Regardless the club spent a lot of money trying to get back up and didn't. Add to that the debt we had when we came down (remember the money Dowie spent) and that as a CCC club it is much harder to credit from banks things are tight. Hence the directors putting in another £14.6m.
As others have said CAFC now need to make a choice. Go for it big time financially (as they have for the last two years) or cut back now to steady the ship before the parachute money runs out.
Bottom line is we will be net sellers by a large amount. If we sell players and get some of the big earners off the books they should be some for Pardew to spend on bring new players in but he has a budget to work to. He knows what he can spend in total on wages and other costs (travel/pro zone/camps in Spain) and how much he has to raise in terms of transfer income.
Charlton is a PLC so it's accounts are public record. For overall figures it would be worth re-visiting them.
A significant reduction in turnover resulted in operating losses of £11.8m for the financial year, with higher amortisation charges relating to player costs contributing to an overall loss for the period of £9.9m, despite profits recorded from player sales of £11.3m. The majority of the revenues earned from the disposal of players relate to the sale of Darren Bent to Tottenham Hotspur for £15.5m, from which additional fees are due to Ipswich Town.
Year to June 2007 Year to June 2006
Turnover £35.9m £41.9m
Operating overheads (£47.7m) (£47.0m)
Exceptional items - £0.5m
Profit on player disposals £11.3m £1.4m
Operating (loss)/profit before amortisation and player trading (£11.8m) (£4.6m)
Amortisation of player costs (£8.5m) (£4.8m)
Operating (loss)/profit (£9.1m) (£8.0m)
Net interest (£0.8m) (£0.1m)
Net (loss)/profit (£9.9m) (£8.1m)
Proceeds from issue of ordinary shares - £5.5m
Shareholders funds £19.2m £29.2m
for years we were told the gap between the premiership and championship was widening.What really gives me the hump is that i believed this hype.I told anyone who wanted to listen that charlton after what had happened years before would not get in financial difficulty so if we were to get relegated it wouldn't hurt us and indeed as the gap was widening each year we were really nailed on to regain promotion at the first attempt.What really pisses me off now is that despite selling Darren Bent for £16 mill and other players going Diawara Luke Young,we are in the crap.Does this mean we were spending beyond our means in the prem and spending future years funds like Coventry Sheff Wed and Saints.Would I be unfair to blame the board for duping me as I dont ever believe we spent big and gave the impression we were spending money we didn't have.Do i blame Alan Pardew for wasting a lot of money last year,do I blame Curbs for leaving a bad squad.A lot of questions and probably they are all to blame a bit but personally I feel a little let down.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]Would I be unfair to blame the board for duping me as I dont ever believe we spent big and gave the impression we were spending money we didn't have.
We're like any other CCC club now, no more PL income/transfer etc. Unless we get investment that won't change and we'll just have to trudge along the best we can and hope the mangement can get a team who gels and performs, and you don't have to spend big to do that i.e Watford/Stoke/Hull
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]for years we were told the gap between the premiership and championship was widening.What really gives me the hump is that i believed this hype.I told anyone who wanted to listen that charlton after what had happened years before would not get in financial difficulty so if we were to get relegated it wouldn't hurt us and indeed as the gap was widening each year we were really nailed on to regain promotion at the first attempt.What really pisses me off now is that despite selling Darren Bent for £16 mill and other players going Diawara Luke Young,we are in the crap.Does this mean we were spending beyond our means in the prem and spending future years funds like Coventry Sheff Wed and Saints.Would I be unfair to blame the board for duping me as I dont ever believe we spent big and gave the impression we were spending money we didn't have.Do i blame Alan Pardew for wasting a lot of money last year,do I blame Curbs for leaving a bad squad.A lot of questions and probably they are all to blame a bit but personally I feel a little let down.
If we'd have gone down in the first 3/4 seasons after going up in 2000 i'm sure you're right in that we would have been more than sound financially. However I think you need to open your eyes a bit and realise that the premiership costs a lot of money just to compete. The more success we had on the pitch the more moeny we were spending off it. No massive things but the combination of lots of extravagancies that were more than affordable in the Prem are no longer affordable now. Plus Dowie spent 2 seasons transfer budget as the reward for staying up the season we went down were so great maybe that was a gamble that had to be taken. I don't think its so much a blame game and if you're determined to find someone i'd avoid the board.
Basically to sum up, the more years in the Premiership we spent the more a Premiership club we became on and off the pitch therefore cuts have had to be made all over the place. If you didn't want us to compete we could have been relegated a long time ago and be like Palace and have a nice promotion every 3 seasons to inevitable relegation. Thats probably what we'll become now but I believe that's due to us missing out on the big fat pay day with the television deal last season.
I was going to do a "home truths" post, and then Henry beat me to it, with the added gravitas of his role at the club.
We have to face facts. Running a Championship club without any future parachute payments and with the added problem that of the "manageable" debt, being harder to secure outside the FAPL, means that we have to continue to cut costs way beyond the £16.5M which was taken out last season. Selling assets maybe the only way to make the landing reasonably soft but it is only a temporary way through. The only prudent way, new investors notwithstanding, is to cut the cloth accordingly. That's what the club is doing. Pards budget will reflect that reality.
I should add or re-enforce the point that we are dealing with a PLC and directors who draw very little if any remuneration from the club, so we are not talking about money be squirreled away somewhere, or Peter Risdale, paying himself a £500K plus bonus.
The way I see it and this is only from my eyes and point of view.
I run a very small business, to make that business tick over and MAKE me money I have to keep money coming in by way of regular work. I keep things small and hence costs are low and I'm not under pressure to push things too much.
HOWEVER
If I wanted to make more money and reach the next level I would have to take a gamble be it calculated or blind faith in my own ability and spend a lot more money on something that if it did come off would make me a lot of money. At the same time it could go tits up and cost me a lot of money and put me under real pressure to make money which would make me desperate. Taking on shit jobs etc.
The point I'm trying to get at is we took a gamble, in premiership terms not a massive one (giving Dowie 13 odd million to spend) it didn't come off and now we are getting dare I say a bit desperate to cover and recover from that gamble. We can argue we have also given the silver fox a few quid to gamble on an instant return to the promised land which didn't happen so now we have to put a plaster over the bleeding wound that has been created to avoid slowly bleeding to death.
good call carter,my earlier posting should read that I'm pissed off with myself really for believing that the longer you stay in the premiership the stronger you become,that is a total load of bollox
Comments
We won't get £16.5 for Bent because some of it was add ons and a chunk goes to Ipswich as part of their sell on fee.
As for Iwelumo going from £900k to £400k in a day. No he didn't. £900k came from where? Certainly not Charlton.
Yes, lots of money raised from transfers but the Reid money was not all up front for example. And as the example above proves what appears in the papers, the internet or even on CL (sorry AFKA) isn't always gospel
Most importantly the club still has on going costs mainly wages to players. Every loan player costs (Sinclair was on a pretty penny plus there was Sodje, Halford, Cook Uncle Tom Cobbly and all), every squad player costs. Last year we bought ZZ, (£2m?) Gray (£1.5m) , Racon (400K?) Paddy (£650k? plus a few bags of hay), Varney (£2m)plus a few others on "free" transfers that involve signing on fees and of course wages like Weaver, Mou2, Semedo. We had a very big squad all of whom (other than Bent and some of Faye) had to be paid.
We also had to run the stadium which isn't cheap either. A lot of other costs were cut last year (£16.5m) because our income dropped dramatically. Not just the TV money but ticket and commercial income.
For what we paid that squad massively underperformed for which you can choose to blame Pardew, Andrew Mills, Goonerhater or Richard Murray. Regardless the club spent a lot of money trying to get back up and didn't. Add to that the debt we had when we came down (remember the money Dowie spent) and that as a CCC club it is much harder to credit from banks things are tight. Hence the directors putting in another £14.6m.
As others have said CAFC now need to make a choice. Go for it big time financially (as they have for the last two years) or cut back now to steady the ship before the parachute money runs out.
Bottom line is we will be net sellers by a large amount. If we sell players and get some of the big earners off the books they should be some for Pardew to spend on bring new players in but he has a budget to work to. He knows what he can spend in total on wages and other costs (travel/pro zone/camps in Spain) and how much he has to raise in terms of transfer income.
Charlton is a PLC so it's accounts are public record. For overall figures it would be worth re-visiting them.
Year to June 2007 Year to June 2006
Turnover £35.9m £41.9m
Operating overheads (£47.7m) (£47.0m)
Exceptional items - £0.5m
Profit on player disposals £11.3m £1.4m
Operating (loss)/profit before amortisation and player trading (£11.8m) (£4.6m)
Amortisation of player costs (£8.5m) (£4.8m)
Operating (loss)/profit (£9.1m) (£8.0m)
Net interest (£0.8m) (£0.1m)
Net (loss)/profit (£9.9m) (£8.1m)
Proceeds from issue of ordinary shares - £5.5m
Shareholders funds £19.2m £29.2m
What on earth are you on about???
If we'd have gone down in the first 3/4 seasons after going up in 2000 i'm sure you're right in that we would have been more than sound financially. However I think you need to open your eyes a bit and realise that the premiership costs a lot of money just to compete. The more success we had on the pitch the more moeny we were spending off it. No massive things but the combination of lots of extravagancies that were more than affordable in the Prem are no longer affordable now. Plus Dowie spent 2 seasons transfer budget as the reward for staying up the season we went down were so great maybe that was a gamble that had to be taken. I don't think its so much a blame game and if you're determined to find someone i'd avoid the board.
Basically to sum up, the more years in the Premiership we spent the more a Premiership club we became on and off the pitch therefore cuts have had to be made all over the place. If you didn't want us to compete we could have been relegated a long time ago and be like Palace and have a nice promotion every 3 seasons to inevitable relegation. Thats probably what we'll become now but I believe that's due to us missing out on the big fat pay day with the television deal last season.
We have to face facts. Running a Championship club without any future parachute payments and with the added problem that of the "manageable" debt, being harder to secure outside the FAPL, means that we have to continue to cut costs way beyond the £16.5M which was taken out last season. Selling assets maybe the only way to make the landing reasonably soft but it is only a temporary way through. The only prudent way, new investors notwithstanding, is to cut the cloth accordingly. That's what the club is doing. Pards budget will reflect that reality.
I should add or re-enforce the point that we are dealing with a PLC and directors who draw very little if any remuneration from the club, so we are not talking about money be squirreled away somewhere, or Peter Risdale, paying himself a £500K plus bonus.
I run a very small business, to make that business tick over and MAKE me money I have to keep money coming in by way of regular work. I keep things small and hence costs are low and I'm not under pressure to push things too much.
HOWEVER
If I wanted to make more money and reach the next level I would have to take a gamble be it calculated or blind faith in my own ability and spend a lot more money on something that if it did come off would make me a lot of money. At the same time it could go tits up and cost me a lot of money and put me under real pressure to make money which would make me desperate. Taking on shit jobs etc.
The point I'm trying to get at is we took a gamble, in premiership terms not a massive one (giving Dowie 13 odd million to spend) it didn't come off and now we are getting dare I say a bit desperate to cover and recover from that gamble. We can argue we have also given the silver fox a few quid to gamble on an instant return to the promised land which didn't happen so now we have to put a plaster over the bleeding wound that has been created to avoid slowly bleeding to death.