wish people would stop saying we shouldn't of let him go. He was stale, always injured and maybe to comfortable at Charlton. He needed a fresh start, give himself a kick up the arse and he joined the U's lost some weight and did great. This season will be a bigger season for him as defenders will know more about. Good luck to him.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Tavern[/cite]i would have him back all day long[/quote]
Oh come on Tavern you can't be serious can you? What a player achieves elsewhere has little or nothing to do with what he may or may not do at Charlton. The simple fact is that when wearing an Addicks shirt he was pretty well rubbish, except on one or two very rare occassions and there's no saying it would be any different if he returned is there. You need only look at his goals to appearance stats whilst with us to appreciate that (it was absolutely awful) and yet you say you'd have him back, well that's just astounding! Were you at Watford a couple of seasons back when we were relegated? I think not, otherwise you'd want to throttle him following the two sitters he managed to fluff inside 10 seconds at the end of the game. Those 10 seconds perfectly personified Kevin Lisbies entire Charlton career Tavern. He wasn't known as Kevin Missbie for nothing!
Agree entirely about that Watford game - the two chances he had right at the end summed it up for me, in that he seemed to often miss the opportunities that he had the time to think about.
Not sure how many of his goals last season were penalties etc, but it will be interesting to see how he fares at Ipswich when the expectations are a bit higher and defences are looking out for him more.
Yes col, if ever there was a player in our history that simply 'had' to move on to achieve anything it was him.He's done so and good luck to him but it would be very doubtful indeed that he could simply come back to us and continue with that (in my opinion ) fleeting success.
[cite]Posted By: AllLeftFoot[/cite]Agree entirely about that Watford game - the two chances he had right at the end summed it up for me, in that he seemed to often miss the opportunities that he had the time to think about.
Not sure how many of his goals last season were penalties etc, but it will be interesting to see how he fares at Ipswich when the expectations are a bit higher and defences are looking out for him more.
Had a tenner of Charlton at halftime to win the match @ 33-1. When the ball fell to Lisbie, I could see the £ signs.
Oh, how stupid was I?
Pardew never gave him a chance. The reason his career never took off at Charlton is simple, too many injuries meaning he never had a decent run of consecutive games. That's what he got at Colchester and that's why he did well. We had him fully fit for the first time in years and then gave him away for nothing whilst paying 2 mill for Mcleod. I'm really pleased for him, a really nice bloke and a far better player than most Charlton fans give him credit for. As for the Watford miss, the guy had just come on as a sub having been out injured again for months. ZZ missed far easier chances at the end of the season that could have possibly kept us up, but the Lisbie boo boys forget about that.
[cite]Posted By: AllLeftFoot[/cite]Agree entirely about that Watford game - the two chances he had right at the end summed it up for me, in that he seemed to often miss the opportunities that he had the time to think about.
Spot on. There's a Colchester fan at my work (don't laugh) - he says exactly the same thing about Super Kev - any time he has to think about it he fluffs a chance, if he just acts on instinct he's a great striker. Funnily enough, about the only time I can remember seeing him take his time to place a shot and actually take the chance was his first ever goal for us - against Oxford. I was right in line with him as he looked up, composed himself and buried it in the corner and thought "this kid is one for the future" LOL
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Pardew never gave him a chance.
Oh come on mate! Whether you like the fella or not, the one thing we can surely all agree on is that had had more than enough time and chances in the whole of his career at Charlton.
Queensland you say, "Pardew never gave him a chance"...fook me, I think he actually played with Pardew, though I can't be certain of that. He was around for years and years (12 to be precise) and was given chances over and over again, in fact more than 'anyone' in the clubs history (certainly in my 50 years of watching The Addicks),he simply was a failure with us and,it must be said, under several managers, not just Pardew. He scored 27 goals in 12 seasons FFS and 6 of those were whilst he was out on loan!! So that's 21 goals for us in 12 years(3 in one game)...yeah he was a top striker for us ...I THINK NOT! Killer,Super Clive, Stuart Leary etc would back themselves to score 20 before Christmas!
One full game v Arsenal at home (when he played very well) and a couple of sub appearances under Pardew. Yes he was around for 11 years, but during that entire period he never played more than 10 consecutive games. Any time he found any decent form, like the Liverpool hatrick, he promptly got injured again. You can't hold that against the bloke, he was just unlucky. It can't be easy to keep working your way back into the team after longterm injuries only to get booed the first chance you miss.
Pardew never in a charlton side with Lisbie. Lisbie made his debut for charlton in 1997. Pardew moved on to play for Barnet in 1995. Although he did sign him on loan for Reading at one stage.
Queensland, with the greatest respect were you in England for most of those 12 years to actually watch him? Charlton fans are famously very fair to players, so that should tell you something re their frustration. The debate isn't really whether or not the guy is a good striker or not but whether or not he was for 'us' and sadly the inescapable fact is he was pants...... injuries or no fooking injuries!
[quote][cite]Posted By: Amos on the wing[/cite]Pardew never in a charlton side with Lisbie. Lisbie made his debut for charlton in 1997. Pardew moved on to play for Barnet in 1995. Although he did sign him on loan for Reading at one stage.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Queensland, with the greatest respect were you in England for most of those 12 years to actually watch him? Charlton fans are famously very fair to players, so that should tell you something re their frustration. The debate isn't really whether or not the guy is a good striker or not but whether or not he was for 'us' and sadly the inescapable fact is he was pants...... injuries or no fooking injuries![/quote]
Yes I did see most of his Charlton career. As for Charlton fans being famously fair, I would have to disagree, especially in recent times. But going back I can remember Peter Shaw and Mark Aizlewood being given a very tough time. They always seem to need to have a scapegoat but I suppose that is the same at all clubs. The stats relating to Lisbie can be very misleading because he didn't actually make that many full appearances. If you disregard sub appearances they read : For us (mainly in Premiership) 68 starts 19 goals = 1 in 3.5 on loan 17 starts 6 goals = 1 in 3 Not too bad at all. Obviously his strike rate at Colchester was even better.
Lisbie is a rare striker in that he is capable of making chances for himself and others. One thing we can agree on pretty well unanimously is that our midfield has been woeful by and large since Parker left. In such circumstances a creative striker is worth his weight in gold. Lisbie, as we all know not the worlds greatest finisher, scored 16 or 17 (can't remember which) goals in the bottom team in the division. As we saw for ourselves at The Valley he made many of those goals for himself by exposing the limitations of willing but limited defenders such as Paddy. He could have done that for us.
His detractors bang on about his appalling stats. Starts to goals for us was between 1in 3 to 1 in 4 with the majority of those starts being made in the Premiership. It is also easy to forget that Lis was a sub more than anybody else and, as a sub, often filled in in midfield rather than as a striker. Indeed his final start for us against Arsenal, mentioned above, was as a winger in place of Rommedahl who scored plenty of goals for us at The Valley from the wing. 0 to be precise!
I have hopes that Varney might be Lisbielike in that he can forage for himself and perhaps he is a better finisher. However he didn't show that in a supposedly better side last season. Not intended as a pop at Varney whom I also like but more evidence of the unfair way many Charlton fans perceived SuperKev.
The stats relating to Lisbie can be very misleading because he didn't actually make that many full appearances. If you disregard sub appearances they read : For us (mainly in Premiership) 68 starts 19 goals = 1 in 3.5 on loan 17 starts 6 goals = 1 in 3 Not too bad at all. Obviously his strike rate at Colchester was even better.
At the expense of repeating myself I say again...The real issue is not whether or not the guy is a good player/striker but whether he was or ever would have been for US...injuries, bad luck, lack of opportunites, lack of suitable strike partners, or lack of creative midfielders you can come up with a host of reasons why you think he didn't cut the mustard but the inescapable answer is that he simply didn't do the business FOR US and IMHO he never would have.
[quote][cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]At the expense of repeating myself I say again...The real issue is not whether or not the guy is a good player/striker but whether he was or ever would have been for US...injuries, bad luck, lack of opportunites, lack of suitable strike partners, or lack of creative midfielders you can come up with a host of reasons why you think he didn't cut the mustard but the inescapable answer is that he simply didn't do the business FOR US and IMHO he never would have.[/quote]
Very true, but he'd have had a far better chance of doing well for us if people hadn't got on his back to such an extent.
Yeah qa, but if you are going to take sub appearances out of the equation then surely you have to also take out goals he scored when coming on as a sub? You can't have it both ways.
All told, the move away has obviously been a good one for him and maybe he should've done it a few years before - for his own good as much as anything else. I don't begrudge him his success and wish him well - but that doesn't change the fact that he was something of a disappointment for us. An enigma, you could say.
I'm sorry but that is just not true. Lisbie had chance after chance after chance before people finally lost patience with him. And blew them all. I agree he was unlucky to get injured after "The Liverpool Game" but he was a very, very lucky lad to play as often as he did for us. As a sub or otherwise. Frankly, that wouldn't have happened at any other club as he was clearly one of Curbs favourites.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Yeah qa, but if you are going to take sub appearances out of the equation then surely you have to also take out goals he scored when coming on as a sub? You can't have it both way[/quote]
I can't recall too many goals as sub. Perhaps his debut goal but not that many to have a major effect on the stats. Anyway it's all academic now. I just feel we let a very good player leave for nothing, when I thought that this was going to be his season. As It turned out it was his season, not only did his goals deprive us of 6 vital points but now we've also missed out on 600 grand.
Comments
Shame we let him go.
promising youngster
I feel the same about JF.
Oh come on Tavern you can't be serious can you?
What a player achieves elsewhere has little or nothing to do with what he may or may not do at Charlton.
The simple fact is that when wearing an Addicks shirt he was pretty well rubbish, except on one or two very rare occassions and there's no saying it would be any different if he returned is there.
You need only look at his goals to appearance stats whilst with us to appreciate that (it was absolutely awful) and yet you say you'd have him back, well that's just astounding!
Were you at Watford a couple of seasons back when we were relegated? I think not, otherwise you'd want to throttle him following the two sitters he managed to fluff inside 10 seconds at the end of the game.
Those 10 seconds perfectly personified Kevin Lisbies entire Charlton career Tavern.
He wasn't known as Kevin Missbie for nothing!
Not sure how many of his goals last season were penalties etc, but it will be interesting to see how he fares at Ipswich when the expectations are a bit higher and defences are looking out for him more.
Personally I think we were right to let him go, possibly the most frustrating striker we have had in the last 10 years
Had a tenner of Charlton at halftime to win the match @ 33-1. When the ball fell to Lisbie, I could see the £ signs.
Oh, how stupid was I?
The reason his career never took off at Charlton is simple, too many injuries meaning he never had a decent run of consecutive games.
That's what he got at Colchester and that's why he did well.
We had him fully fit for the first time in years and then gave him away for nothing whilst paying 2 mill for Mcleod.
I'm really pleased for him, a really nice bloke and a far better player than most Charlton fans give him credit for.
As for the Watford miss, the guy had just come on as a sub having been out injured again for months.
ZZ missed far easier chances at the end of the season that could have possibly kept us up, but the Lisbie boo boys forget about that.
Oh come on mate! Whether you like the fella or not, the one thing we can surely all agree on is that had had more than enough time and chances in the whole of his career at Charlton.
He was around for years and years (12 to be precise) and was given chances over and over again, in fact more than 'anyone' in the clubs history (certainly in my 50 years of watching The Addicks),he simply was a failure with us and,it must be said, under several managers, not just Pardew.
He scored 27 goals in 12 seasons FFS and 6 of those were whilst he was out on loan!! So that's 21 goals for us in 12 years(3 in one game)...yeah he was a top striker for us ...I THINK NOT!
Killer,Super Clive, Stuart Leary etc would back themselves to score 20 before Christmas!
Yes he was around for 11 years, but during that entire period he never played more than 10 consecutive games.
Any time he found any decent form, like the Liverpool hatrick, he promptly got injured again.
You can't hold that against the bloke, he was just unlucky.
It can't be easy to keep working your way back into the team after longterm injuries only to get booed the first chance you miss.
Charlton fans are famously very fair to players, so that should tell you something re their frustration.
The debate isn't really whether or not the guy is a good striker or not but whether or not he was for 'us' and sadly the inescapable fact is he was pants...... injuries or no fooking injuries!
Thanks Amos, I wasn't certain.
Charlton fans are famously very fair to players, so that should tell you something re their frustration.
The debate isn't really whether or not the guy is a good striker or not but whether or not he was for 'us' and sadly the inescapable fact is he was pants...... injuries or no fooking injuries![/quote]
Yes I did see most of his Charlton career.
As for Charlton fans being famously fair, I would have to disagree, especially in recent times.
But going back I can remember Peter Shaw and Mark Aizlewood being given a very tough time. They always seem to need to have a scapegoat but I suppose that is the same at all clubs.
The stats relating to Lisbie can be very misleading because he didn't actually make that many full appearances. If you disregard sub appearances they read : For us (mainly in Premiership) 68 starts 19 goals = 1 in 3.5
on loan 17 starts 6 goals = 1 in 3
Not too bad at all.
Obviously his strike rate at Colchester was even better.
Lisbie is a rare striker in that he is capable of making chances for himself and others. One thing we can agree on pretty well unanimously is that our midfield has been woeful by and large since Parker left. In such circumstances a creative striker is worth his weight in gold. Lisbie, as we all know not the worlds greatest finisher, scored 16 or 17 (can't remember which) goals in the bottom team in the division. As we saw for ourselves at The Valley he made many of those goals for himself by exposing the limitations of willing but limited defenders such as Paddy. He could have done that for us.
His detractors bang on about his appalling stats. Starts to goals for us was between 1in 3 to 1 in 4 with the majority of those starts being made in the Premiership. It is also easy to forget that Lis was a sub more than anybody else and, as a sub, often filled in in midfield rather than as a striker. Indeed his final start for us against Arsenal, mentioned above, was as a winger in place of Rommedahl who scored plenty of goals for us at The Valley from the wing. 0 to be precise!
I have hopes that Varney might be Lisbielike in that he can forage for himself and perhaps he is a better finisher. However he didn't show that in a supposedly better side last season. Not intended as a pop at Varney whom I also like but more evidence of the unfair way many Charlton fans perceived SuperKev.
on loan 17 starts 6 goals = 1 in 3
Not too bad at all.
Obviously his strike rate at Colchester was even better.
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Fair point Queensland. The stats make interesting reading.
Very true, but he'd have had a far better chance of doing well for us if people hadn't got on his back to such an extent.
All told, the move away has obviously been a good one for him and maybe he should've done it a few years before - for his own good as much as anything else. I don't begrudge him his success and wish him well - but that doesn't change the fact that he was something of a disappointment for us. An enigma, you could say.
I can't recall too many goals as sub. Perhaps his debut goal but not that many to have a major effect on the stats.
Anyway it's all academic now. I just feel we let a very good player leave for nothing, when I thought that this was going to be his season.
As It turned out it was his season, not only did his goals deprive us of 6 vital points but now we've also missed out on 600 grand.