what we didnt do during the prem years in invest enough in up an coming talent, that is why the wage bill got so big, hopefully that lesson has or is being learned.
move the fuk on folks and get off the backs people who only have ever had charlton at heart .
do you think curbs put all that effort into achieving to then think well bollox i will let it all fall down
i dont,
i agree we wasnt in a great shape when he left but he doesnt deserve to be tarnished with the brush that some are painting as for Muzza the man deserves a hell of lot of thanks a respect from everyone bar palarse fans who post on here
sometimes i think there are those who have forgotten how shit and bad it really was
this is not a rose tinted rant it is a realistic rant
we are NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN NEVER WILL BE a big club and therefor when things go right they go right big time when they go wrong we end up where we are today.
I tried to put a few things in context with the Dowie £11 million transfer pot.
And that included showing that Curbs spent around £11 million after the Parker sale - and, let's put it kindly, none of those signings really worked out - and that was the beginning of the end under Curbs.
In the context of the new TV contract, Dowie was given £11 million to spend.
If Curbs had signed a new contract, no doubt Murray would have given the same £11 million transfer pot to Curbs.
Why wouldn't he?
And quite possibly some of Curbs transfer targets could have included players that Dowie subsequently signed.
They would have been amongst the players available and within our budget.
My point? Curbs quite possibly wouldn't have done much better with the £11 million either.
One of Curbs' great strengths was his ability to get people to play above their natural level.
How often under Curbs was the phrase used about us that the total is greater than the sum of the parts?
If he WAS looking at the same personnel as Dowie did I'm sure he would have got more out of them even if he had to freeze them out in the stiffs to do it.
The other thing about Curbs is that he signed the man as much as the footballer (yes I know Bent M was the exception) which makes me think that when push came to shove Curbs wouldn't have touched some of Dowie's signings even if he did show an initial interest.
Curbs had a good habit of signing hungry players with the right character - like Kinsella, Stuart, Brown, Robinson, Youds etc who knew that being a pro-footballer was a privilege and they responded by working their socks off. So what he was doing going after Marcus Bent...
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Curbs had a good habit of signing hungry players with the right character - like Kinsella, Stuart, Brown, Robinson, Youds etc who knew that being a pro-footballer was a privilege and they responded by working their socks off. So what he was doing going after Marcus Bent...
The old memory might be playing tricks but I THINK Bartlett had a long term injury and we needed a replacement in a hurry during the January window.
Possibly because needs must at the time he wasn't as thorough as normal in researching him.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]We owe Curbs (and Richard Murray, don't forget) a huge amount of acknowledgement and gratitude for what he achieved at Charlton.
But Curbs was just a mere mortal who got more things right than wrong. And sometimes he did get them wrong.
With the Parker money, he went out and bought Bryan Hughes, El Kak, Rommedahl, Danny Murphy and Fanny Jeffers.
He had one last hurrah with a fantastic start to that season but it went seriously pearshaped by the time the clocks had changed. Without that start, on subsequent points gained, we could very well have been relegated.
Despite some flashes of effective contribution, all of those 5 players flattered to deceive - and they also showed they didn't have the enthusiasm, backbone and strength of character, compared to the players Curbs previously had a reputation for signing.
We did have the cup run, - Curbs did sign Marcus Bent for £2.5mill, he did put in an offer for JFH in the January and sign a pre-contract agreement for Gibbs - but basically it was a fire fighting exercise and The Valley frequently was like a morgue. Once Curbs had his head turned by the prospect of the England job, that seemed to be it - and he seemed to die on his feet with his appetite for running the club.
Richard Murray was quite right to give him the ultamatum - sign a new contract or leave.
And if he had stayed, and Murray had given him the £11mill transfer pot that he gave Dowie, there's no guarantee that he would have spent money better than the similar amount he previously spent with the Parker money - and maybe some of Curb's transfer targets included a couple of players subsequently signed by Dowie.......?
Agree with you Oggy. I'm not criticising the whole Curbs regime just his transfer strategy after Parker left. Apart from Bent (big exception) we frittered money away with little return and that forced us into more dangerous and short term transfers each season just to keep our heads above water. Others are responsible too but i think everyone on here would say that the rot set in after Parker and the manager responsible for the post Parker signings was Curbs.
Nail, head , bang and all that, Len .....
One of Curbs' great strengths was indeed his ability to get people to play above their natural level.
But, with hindsight (!), after spending the Parker money, he seemed to meet a level of spoiled 'fancy dan footballer' that was beyond him to motivate consistantly.
And in that context, it puts into question that he began to struggle to find players that had the necessary Prem standard ability and the right sort of character and attitude. Or at least they weren't responding to his management style.
It wasn't just MC Bender, though. Fanny Jeffers and Murphy for example showed their true colours, and it makes you wonder if their attitude rubbed off on some others?
Curbs skill was taking the player hungry for a chance to play in the Prem or giving the ageing/relegated pro one last hurrah. Graham Stuart/Chris Powell/Shaun Bartlett/HH, Matty Holland spring to mind.
Also, he once had a policy of only signing hungry foreign players that had already proved themselves in British leagues - JJ, Jensen, Di Canio, etc for example. That was a sound policy and stood Curbs in good stead but not adhered to after a while.
With his record with spending the Parker money, and the budgetary constraints Charlton had to live within in the Prem , I really don't think Curbs would have spent the 'Dowie millions' any better - but, of course, it's all academic now.
I think the biggest problem is that established Prem standard players are already wealthy men - so how do you motivate the spoiled brat 'baby Bently' brigade?
Pards had the same problem eventually at West Ham. And I wouldn't mind betting that Curbs has some of those same issues today.
Santa, another Nail, head, bang and all that. That's exactly the point.
It was how Curbs spent the Parker money that has eventually led to the club being in the position it finds itself today.
And I doubt if the 'Dowie millions' would have been spent much better, which would have been the money Curbs' could've spent, if he'd signed his new contract offered.
I'm not trying to scapegoat Curbs - but simply trying to explore the context of where and how it all went wrong.
And it has to be seen in context.
Curbs when buying the likes of Murphy, Rommedahl, Jeffers etc was trying to take us to "the next level" whatever that was. UEFA cup qualification I guess.
Parker went for £10 million which was massive by our standards but small beer for teams like Spurs, Middlesbrough and Newcastle to name just 3 with similar aspirations to us at the time.
When you look at the millions the managers of the 3 clubs I've mentioned have wasted on dross Curbs' post Parker record doesn't look that bad even if it was not up to his own previous exceptional standards.
The guy did an exceptional job for us and that should be remembered rather than an attempt at rewriting history out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to Pardew, Dowie or whoever which some (not you Oggy) have done.
Comments
do you think curbs put all that effort into achieving to then think well bollox i will let it all fall down
i dont,
i agree we wasnt in a great shape when he left but he doesnt deserve to be tarnished with the brush that some are painting as for Muzza the man deserves a hell of lot of thanks a respect from everyone bar palarse fans who post on here
sometimes i think there are those who have forgotten how shit and bad it really was
this is not a rose tinted rant it is a realistic rant
we are NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN NEVER WILL BE a big club and therefor when things go right they go right big time when they go wrong we end up where we are today.
get on with it
And that included showing that Curbs spent around £11 million after the Parker sale - and, let's put it kindly, none of those signings really worked out - and that was the beginning of the end under Curbs.
In the context of the new TV contract, Dowie was given £11 million to spend.
If Curbs had signed a new contract, no doubt Murray would have given the same £11 million transfer pot to Curbs.
Why wouldn't he?
And quite possibly some of Curbs transfer targets could have included players that Dowie subsequently signed.
They would have been amongst the players available and within our budget.
My point? Curbs quite possibly wouldn't have done much better with the £11 million either.
No, you make some good points Oggy :-)
One of Curbs' great strengths was his ability to get people to play above their natural level.
How often under Curbs was the phrase used about us that the total is greater than the sum of the parts?
If he WAS looking at the same personnel as Dowie did I'm sure he would have got more out of them even if he had to freeze them out in the stiffs to do it.
The other thing about Curbs is that he signed the man as much as the footballer (yes I know Bent M was the exception) which makes me think that when push came to shove Curbs wouldn't have touched some of Dowie's signings even if he did show an initial interest.
The old memory might be playing tricks but I THINK Bartlett had a long term injury and we needed a replacement in a hurry during the January window.
Possibly because needs must at the time he wasn't as thorough as normal in researching him.
Agree with you Oggy. I'm not criticising the whole Curbs regime just his transfer strategy after Parker left. Apart from Bent (big exception) we frittered money away with little return and that forced us into more dangerous and short term transfers each season just to keep our heads above water. Others are responsible too but i think everyone on here would say that the rot set in after Parker and the manager responsible for the post Parker signings was Curbs.
One of Curbs' great strengths was indeed his ability to get people to play above their natural level.
But, with hindsight (!), after spending the Parker money, he seemed to meet a level of spoiled 'fancy dan footballer' that was beyond him to motivate consistantly.
And in that context, it puts into question that he began to struggle to find players that had the necessary Prem standard ability and the right sort of character and attitude. Or at least they weren't responding to his management style.
It wasn't just MC Bender, though. Fanny Jeffers and Murphy for example showed their true colours, and it makes you wonder if their attitude rubbed off on some others?
Curbs skill was taking the player hungry for a chance to play in the Prem or giving the ageing/relegated pro one last hurrah. Graham Stuart/Chris Powell/Shaun Bartlett/HH, Matty Holland spring to mind.
Also, he once had a policy of only signing hungry foreign players that had already proved themselves in British leagues - JJ, Jensen, Di Canio, etc for example. That was a sound policy and stood Curbs in good stead but not adhered to after a while.
With his record with spending the Parker money, and the budgetary constraints Charlton had to live within in the Prem , I really don't think Curbs would have spent the 'Dowie millions' any better - but, of course, it's all academic now.
I think the biggest problem is that established Prem standard players are already wealthy men - so how do you motivate the spoiled brat 'baby Bently' brigade?
Pards had the same problem eventually at West Ham. And I wouldn't mind betting that Curbs has some of those same issues today.
It was how Curbs spent the Parker money that has eventually led to the club being in the position it finds itself today.
And I doubt if the 'Dowie millions' would have been spent much better, which would have been the money Curbs' could've spent, if he'd signed his new contract offered.
I'm not trying to scapegoat Curbs - but simply trying to explore the context of where and how it all went wrong.
And it has to be seen in context.
Parker went for £10 million which was massive by our standards but small beer for teams like Spurs, Middlesbrough and Newcastle to name just 3 with similar aspirations to us at the time.
When you look at the millions the managers of the 3 clubs I've mentioned have wasted on dross Curbs' post Parker record doesn't look that bad even if it was not up to his own previous exceptional standards.
The guy did an exceptional job for us and that should be remembered rather than an attempt at rewriting history out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to Pardew, Dowie or whoever which some (not you Oggy) have done.