just because a railway line is coming doesn't mean the place will attract the kind of city workers and young professionals some people are hoping for
for a start those types will be able to buy apartments in the docklands for next 5 years that they wouldn't have previously been able to afford
for an area to change dramatically it needs to be close enough to the centre for its seedier parts to be overweighed by the advantage of proximity hence Borough and places like Deptford etc.
anyone who thinks Woolwich can change like those is living in cloud cuckoo land in my opinion...
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]You cant polish a turd I'm afraid.
They've done the same to Thamesmead recently with new penthouses etc, still the same, your in Thamesmead, the damage is done IMO.
Isn't Thamesmead a relatively 'new' place anyway?
Relatively, late 60's early 70's the original Thameasmead was built, I'm talking about the new developments that have popped up over the last 5-10 years
I disagree about how thing will never change. I look at the clientel that use the Thames Clipper service at the moment, young professional coming to their nice flats in Woolwich from Docklands. That flow of people isn't going to suddenly stop.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]I disagree about how thing will never change. I look at the clientel that use the Thames Clipper service at the moment, young professional coming to their nice flats in Woolwich from Docklands. That flow of people isn't going to suddenly stop.
I think it will eventually, when they realise where they have actually moved.
There is nothing around there for these people, two pubs, the Princess Alice opposite a prison, and the Cutty Sark (RIP Peter), watched one Saturday night in there about 3 years ago when some "yuppie" type came in, on the pure basis of looking for a local pub, he got slaughtered in ther for his accent etc, it was only myslef & my partner who befriended him and stopped the baying crowd, it will always be like that unfortunately around there.
I'm all for the DLR links and eventually crossrail, much faster into London, DLR from February, straight into London from Woolwich Arsenal in 15 minutes or so, especially as I go to Minories a few times a year, DLR to Woolwich, 15 minutes, then train to Dartford, lovely jubbly.
It isn't a case of the "colour" of the people, its the attitude of the people.
I know as I go to them daily!
As soon as they move people into these new estates, they slowly begin to wreck them. Just look at the hallways will show you how they treat the place. They believe that because they don't own them, they don't have to worry about them. They have been brought up in believing that the council or landlord will pay for the repairs, etc.!
People are no longer responsible for their actions or any results of their actions.
Over the years we have seen a blame everybody else culture, and do as little as you can and you will still get by with life. There is no longer any suffering or going without if you don't work and do not care. As long as this stays they same, life and the standard of life will fall.
It's not about colour it's about culture. Mr & Mrs Osman recently moved from Somalia do not want to spend their hard earned in a pub. That is why pubs in areas now populated by recent arrivals are closing, as a night in the boozer is not part of their culture. Woolwich is trying to regenerate but as somebody pointed out above, areas that regenerate as those in close proximity to London. Woolwich doesn't fit that criteria. Alas, i don't think your theory of the young professional types moving to Woolwich will prove correct.
I know loads of people that have relocated to Woolwich on the river as its affordable at the moment, its desirable because of the traffic links and why shouldn't it improve the area? if the property prices rise then only affluent people will be able to move in.
Every area has its dodgy bits. Blackheath, Greenwich, even the area north of Oxford Street in central London has a council estate slap bang in the middle of it. There is affordable housing everywhere, if you do'nt mind living somewhere a bit grotty. There are good and bad bits of every area, I don't know Woolwich that well to be honest as was never allowed there when I was younger, but I think its a bit unfair with the olympics, the transport route and other developments planned to write it off completely.
Unfortunately, those young professional types are highly unlikely to go beyond the brick wall that surrounds the Royal Arsenal development, except when travelling to the DLR, which I also agree is unlikely to be the shot in the arm that Woolwich really needs. (And before anyone mentions Crossrail, I'll be amazed if that gets funding in the current climate.)
That said, it'll be interesting to see what goes up on that stretch between where the Crown and Cushion used to be and where the Catholic Club remains. I took a walk from The Valley up to Thamesmead along the river yesterday and it's a crying shame that Woolwich has been denied so many opportunities over the decades - heartbreaking to see it being pulled apart now.
That said, it's still rescuable, but it'll take a lot of effort and a bit of (incoming) money.
Dunno about Plumstead High Street though - sheeesh! ;-)
As a wider point, what's happened in Woolwich is what happened in Greenwich a decade ago and what happened across inner London and the years before that - the property boom meant only the very rich (buying) or very poor (social housing) could live there, and everyone else got squeezed out.
Maybe the economic collapse will right the balance a bit. Maybe...
[quote][cite]Posted By: InspectorSands[/cite]and a bit of (incoming)
Dunno about Plumstead High Street though - sheeesh! ;-)[/quote]
Plumstead High Street is now take away heaven. As soon as you pass by Plumstead railway station, until the Police station all you can smell is the different foods cooking!
anyone could live in greenwich. i stand by that.
you could live in a bedsit above a shop with manky water if you wanted to live there. people move further out to get more for their money. that is how london has grown so much! its not impossible to live inside london its do-able. by building these houses in woolwich, there will be a new influx of people which will bounce out those that can't afford it to somewhere else further out and it'll start all over again.
my 1 bed victorian flat in SE12 was the same price as medders 3 bed new build house in sittingbourne. whats happening in woolwich will stretch further and further out. they'll build new towns in the country a la Kings Hill!
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]anyone could live in greenwich. i stand by that.
you could live in a bedsit above a shop with manky water if you wanted to live there. people move further out to get more for their money. that is how london has grown so much! its not impossible to live inside london its do-able. by building these houses in woolwich, there will be a new influx of people which will bounce out those that can't afford it to somewhere else further out and it'll start all over again.
my 1 bed victorian flat in SE12 was the same price as medders 3 bed new build house in sittingbourne. whats happening in woolwich will stretch further and further out. they'll build new towns in the country a la Kings Hill!
It all comes down to more house for your money.
As a married man who didn't (doesn't) earn a lot by SE standards with a baby and a wife at home looking after that baby I was priced out of London and down to the Medway Towns and that was nearly 25 years ago.
The situation has got far worse since then for young families and unless you are a banker at Lehmann Brothers or someone of that ilk it must be impossible on "normal" wages to have one parent looking after the children unless one parent works nights and the other days. (We did that for a while).
If you are single or a childless couple yes you can live in London because, like you say, you can live comfortably in a 1 bed flat but that simply aint big enough for a family with one or more children.
I have known you for years (You just don't know who I am)
And I know you lived round that area for a long time so surly you must agree Woolwich has gone down hill rapidly?
When I mean clientel I mean all people who couldn't give a toss about where they live or care about their town! When I was kid growing I was proud to come from woolwich and when people used to ask where do you come from and you told them neally all would say what a nice place! If you was to ask anyone now what they would think of woolwich I would expect no one would say how lovley it is?
I remember when the fountin was built in the center it stayed nice for maybe a year then you had every wino about using it as meeting point!
Where I lived in Frances Street there was no trouble or bother all the neighbours knew each and looked out for each other. But as the years went on people moved out as they were getting old or couldn't afford London anymore so they moved to the seaside or surrounding areas. But then it seemed like over night it from great to terrible! One morning when my mum and I was going to work we found 3 used needles where someone had been jaking up! within 6 months we had moved!
I went back to block where I lived for 21 years about 5 years later what I saw was unreal!
Iron bars across all doors and windows intercom had been put in CCTV all over the shop Outside the block big iron gates blocking all exits so it was one way in and way one out
In a nutshell it was like a prison!!!!!
All coulours lived there I'm not blaming anyone in particular it just seemd to me all the people who cared where they lived had moved out and the new clientel couldn't give a sh@t!
I'm not going to deny it's gone downhill, the area lost 000's of jobs when the Arsenal went and they were never replace, when that happens it's going to tank for a while, but there is no reason why it can't come back up again, as something completely different.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]anyone could live in greenwich. i stand by that.
you could live in a bedsit above a shop with manky water if you wanted to live there. people move further out to get more for their money. that is how london has grown so much! its not impossible to live inside london its do-able. by building these houses in woolwich, there will be a new influx of people which will bounce out those that can't afford it to somewhere else further out and it'll start all over again.
my 1 bed victorian flat in SE12 was the same price as medders 3 bed new build house in sittingbourne. whats happening in woolwich will stretch further and further out. they'll build new towns in the country a la Kings Hill!
It all comes down to more house for your money.
As a married man who didn't (doesn't) earn a lot by SE standards with a baby and a wife at home looking after that baby I was priced out of London and down to the Medway Towns and that was nearly 25 years ago.
The situation has got far worse since then for young families and unless you are a banker at Lehmann Brothers or someone of that ilk it must be impossible on "normal" wages to have one parent looking after the children unless one parent works nights and the other days. (We did that for a while).
If you are single or a childless couple yes you can live in London because, like you say, you can live comfortably in a 1 bed flat but that simply aint big enough for a family with one or more children.
agree, and i'm sure i'll have to move further afield when we start a family or i might just build a mezzanine level in our flat so we can stay where we are :-)
Comments
They've done the same to Thamesmead recently with new penthouses etc, still the same, your in Thamesmead, the damage is done IMO.
Areas change, and change and change. Suspect Woolwich in 5 years time will be different to what it is now.
I think your right Rothko in five years time it will be even worse.
Isn't Thamesmead a relatively 'new' place anyway?
I don't share the doom a lot of people have, cause worse places have been turned around in shorter times.
When it was marshland.
for a start those types will be able to buy apartments in the docklands for next 5 years that they wouldn't have previously been able to afford
for an area to change dramatically it needs to be close enough to the centre for its seedier parts to be overweighed by the advantage of proximity hence Borough and places like Deptford etc.
anyone who thinks Woolwich can change like those is living in cloud cuckoo land in my opinion...
nobody's mentioned colour?
Relatively, late 60's early 70's the original Thameasmead was built, I'm talking about the new developments that have popped up over the last 5-10 years
No one said nothing about being the wrong colour fella!!!!
I think it will eventually, when they realise where they have actually moved.
There is nothing around there for these people, two pubs, the Princess Alice opposite a prison, and the Cutty Sark (RIP Peter), watched one Saturday night in there about 3 years ago when some "yuppie" type came in, on the pure basis of looking for a local pub, he got slaughtered in ther for his accent etc, it was only myslef & my partner who befriended him and stopped the baying crowd, it will always be like that unfortunately around there.
I'm all for the DLR links and eventually crossrail, much faster into London, DLR from February, straight into London from Woolwich Arsenal in 15 minutes or so, especially as I go to Minories a few times a year, DLR to Woolwich, 15 minutes, then train to Dartford, lovely jubbly.
Both really, you couldn't pay me to live there (then again with our benefits systems I suppose some people do get paid to live there)
I know as I go to them daily!
As soon as they move people into these new estates, they slowly begin to wreck them. Just look at the hallways will show you how they treat the place. They believe that because they don't own them, they don't have to worry about them. They have been brought up in believing that the council or landlord will pay for the repairs, etc.!
People are no longer responsible for their actions or any results of their actions.
Over the years we have seen a blame everybody else culture, and do as little as you can and you will still get by with life. There is no longer any suffering or going without if you don't work and do not care. As long as this stays they same, life and the standard of life will fall.
Every area has its dodgy bits. Blackheath, Greenwich, even the area north of Oxford Street in central London has a council estate slap bang in the middle of it. There is affordable housing everywhere, if you do'nt mind living somewhere a bit grotty. There are good and bad bits of every area, I don't know Woolwich that well to be honest as was never allowed there when I was younger, but I think its a bit unfair with the olympics, the transport route and other developments planned to write it off completely.
That said, it'll be interesting to see what goes up on that stretch between where the Crown and Cushion used to be and where the Catholic Club remains. I took a walk from The Valley up to Thamesmead along the river yesterday and it's a crying shame that Woolwich has been denied so many opportunities over the decades - heartbreaking to see it being pulled apart now.
That said, it's still rescuable, but it'll take a lot of effort and a bit of (incoming) money.
Dunno about Plumstead High Street though - sheeesh! ;-)
Crossrail will happen, its been on the table that many years, they wont abandon it now.
Maybe the economic collapse will right the balance a bit. Maybe...
Dunno about Plumstead High Street though - sheeesh! ;-)[/quote]
Plumstead High Street is now take away heaven. As soon as you pass by Plumstead railway station, until the Police station all you can smell is the different foods cooking!
you could live in a bedsit above a shop with manky water if you wanted to live there. people move further out to get more for their money. that is how london has grown so much! its not impossible to live inside london its do-able. by building these houses in woolwich, there will be a new influx of people which will bounce out those that can't afford it to somewhere else further out and it'll start all over again.
my 1 bed victorian flat in SE12 was the same price as medders 3 bed new build house in sittingbourne. whats happening in woolwich will stretch further and further out. they'll build new towns in the country a la Kings Hill!
It all comes down to more house for your money.
As a married man who didn't (doesn't) earn a lot by SE standards with a baby and a wife at home looking after that baby I was priced out of London and down to the Medway Towns and that was nearly 25 years ago.
The situation has got far worse since then for young families and unless you are a banker at Lehmann Brothers or someone of that ilk it must be impossible on "normal" wages to have one parent looking after the children unless one parent works nights and the other days. (We did that for a while).
If you are single or a childless couple yes you can live in London because, like you say, you can live comfortably in a 1 bed flat but that simply aint big enough for a family with one or more children.
I have known you for years (You just don't know who I am)
And I know you lived round that area for a long time so surly you must agree Woolwich has gone down hill rapidly?
When I mean clientel I mean all people who couldn't give a toss about where they live or care about their town!
When I was kid growing I was proud to come from woolwich and when people used to ask where do you come from and you told them neally all would say what a nice place! If you was to ask anyone now what they would think of woolwich I would expect no one would say how lovley it is?
I remember when the fountin was built in the center it stayed nice for maybe a year then you had every wino about using it as meeting point!
Where I lived in Frances Street there was no trouble or bother all the neighbours knew each and looked out for each other. But as the years went on people moved out as they were getting old or couldn't afford London anymore so they moved to the seaside or surrounding areas. But then it seemed like over night it from great to terrible!
One morning when my mum and I was going to work we found 3 used needles where someone had been jaking up! within 6 months we had moved!
I went back to block where I lived for 21 years about 5 years later what I saw was unreal!
Iron bars across all doors and windows
intercom had been put in
CCTV all over the shop
Outside the block big iron gates blocking all exits so it was one way in and way one out
In a nutshell it was like a prison!!!!!
All coulours lived there I'm not blaming anyone in particular it just seemd to me all the people who cared where they lived had moved out and the new clientel couldn't give a sh@t!
In my eyes it is very sad!!
agree, and i'm sure i'll have to move further afield when we start a family or i might just build a mezzanine level in our flat so we can stay where we are :-)