[cite]Posted By: Covered End[/cite]MCFC said Zabeel were warned off by the authorities (FA ?) because of the family connection with MCFC and a family couldn't have an interest in more than 1 club.
I believe I am right in saying that, as MCFC tells it, it was the (Iron) Sheik Mo that warned off the Prince* because of these concerns in order to keep his options open with regards to purchasing his own club (whether Liverpool or otherwise I suppose).
*or perhaps the Prince showed dutiful deference to the Sheik
[cite]Posted By: Sailor Browneye[/cite]I know it is against the Charlton Life Forum rules to be too critical of our Board or negative
With all due respect: That's bullshit. The folks that spend a great deal of time moderating this board do a fine job of keeping balance. Nothing is censored, unless beyond on the pale. If anything, this place is a lightning rod for misery, criticism and baseless speculation!
Somone ban this person for offensive language. I mean, what has he ever done for this site?
If only Charlton hadn't lost the plot on and off the pitch over the past two and a half years, we 'might' now be in dream land. Did anyone imagine Zabeel's accountants would learn that our salary/turnover ratios are at 100% when they went through the books? That must have raised the odd eyebrow.
Lost the plot?... We were competing for Premier type players a few years back, and paying the going rate for them, with the ambition of staying on the gravy train…
Even doing that, we still looked like a fish out of water in the Premier League, because all I can remember about possible exciting transfer targets at the time, was that we could never get them due to wages...So we got what we got and we paid what the market dictated..With the team failing, the books became what they are now.
The truth is we were financially out of our depths in that world...
I don’t get this argument about our books “raising eyebrows”, What would Chelsea‘s, Man City‘s books look like without their respective sugar daddy‘s?
Surely our debt would have been looked at as nothing but small change to an outfit like Zabeel?
They were buying potential, at a good price, and with their financial clout could have fulfilled that potential..
[cite]Posted By: LoOkOuT[/cite]With all due respect: That's bullshit. The folks that spend a great deal of time moderating this board do a fine job of keeping balance. Nothing is censored, unless beyond on the pale. If anything, this place is a lightning rod for misery, criticism and baseless speculation!
Absolutely. Just as long as a member is prepared to be a ‘know-it-all’ rather than a ‘told-you-so’ eh Looky old mate?! ;-)
If a member is in the latter camp, he or she might find their threads sunk and suggestions made, by certain moderators, that ‘if you don’t like it’ then you can go elsewhere.
I’d love to cite some threads as cases in point where posters have been ‘advised’ or even ‘rebuked’ by moderators on here but, hey, guess what, they’ve been sunk…
One or two posters have been told their constant negativity about CAFC’s situation is repetitive and boring (despite the fact the club hasn't been in a worse situation in 25 years). Now, that’s fine, you might think, in an open debate. We all have opinions after all.
But being told that by actual moderators? Is that right? Shouldn’t moderators just ‘look out’, pardon the pun, for abuse, slander, racism etc – not the editorial pitch of a public forum??
Isn’t that what your columns and articles are for? The forum should be, as you say, a ‘lightning rod’ for anything and everything, within reasonable limits of politeness and decency, but when moderators suggest they are ‘tired’ of a particular angle on a debate and want things moved on, then I don’t find that neutral and uninvolved. That IS a form of attempted censorship I'm afraid.
It’s more like – it’s my football and I’ll be captain thanks!
You know, I can think of one poster who does absolutely nothing but defend the club’s decisions and also earns their living at the club(!), while another constantly sneers sarcastically at any perceived criticism of the way the club is run, all the while pathetically trumpeting their hammy CAFC social connections, but, hey, no-one 'official' ever seems to tire of those samey, predictable responses. Hmm…
I hasten to add that no-one has taken me to task on anything but I’ve always trumpeted transparency and impartiality and, in my opinion, it is sometimes compromised on here. That’s my considered view I’m afraid Looky old mate.
But my comment was merely a throwaway line, no less true for that, but your prickly response suggests I touched a nerve. Sorry about that.
But life is too short. So, whatever. Think what you like, you will anyway…
As to the dissection of my post regarding Zabeel. Well, you had to really.
Again, fine, but, I am very well placed to give quite informed opinion on this issue, but if the ‘soap opera’ version of what allegedly Sheikh Mohammed and his son decided floats your boat, then you lap it up…
I love the ‘dutiful deference to the Sheik (sic)’….sounds fascinating… ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Sailor Browneye[/cite]I’d love to cite some threads as cases in point where posters have been ‘advised’ or even ‘rebuked’ by moderators on here but, hey, guess what, they’ve been sunk…
You can still look them up.. they're sunk not deleted.
Of course you've touched a nerve. A handful of people work very hard to keep this site going day-to-day, myself included. I take it personally when people misrepresent the site, throwaway comment or not. We've put a lot of hard work in. I'm going to dispute comments I think are unfair or just plain untrue.
In terms of Zabeel, I wrote my understanding of MCFC's position (as different from your understanding of his/her position)... not that of my own. I haven't the foggiest idea why Zabeel chose not to buy Charlton... and I won't speculate (at least not without declaring it first).
[cite]If only Charlton hadn't lost the plot on and off the pitch over the past two and a half years, we 'might' now be in dream land. Did anyone imagine Zabeel's accountants would learn that our salary/turnover ratios are at 100% when they went through the books? That must have raised the odd eyebrow.
Depends on how much someone wants it, When Abramovich took over at Chelsea they were (and without him still are) in a dreadful state, as mentioned by Joeaddick.
About as much as is known re Zabeel is that it's understood by many that the guys/negotiators that we were actually dealing with were very dissapointed the deal didn't come off...it's thought that the 'pull the plug' directive came from further up the chain of command in the 'family'....but the reasons are still of course somewhat unclear and open to all sorts of speculation.
......"He added that Zabeel would look at lower-profile opportunities without specifying if it would look at buying British soccer clubs in the future."......
Orient could fall into that category and the term "Pandoras Box" could mean a host of things regarding us as Sailor has intimated in a different way above.
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Rothko is spot on
I dont think Saracens wont leave Watford but could see Wasps moving over.
There is a HUGE untapped market for rugby in London/South East England.
If I want to take my boys to see a Prem Rugby club I have to go to Twickenham at the mo.
Westfield wouldnt want football fans going through their flagship centre thats for sure.
You are right there is a huge untapped rugby market (Why don't Blackheath sort themselves out? I digress) but is it big enough on its own?
Even in established rugby areas such as Leicester and Bristol the grounds are rarely if ever full to capacity especially those who share with football clubs. Bath is the only Premiership Club I can think of whose ground (the Recreation Ground) is too small for regular attendances.
I think there will be (have to be) some sort of ground share with a football club to make the place pay in the longterm.
The bottom line on the zabeel situation seems to be that they were put off buying into us because of a)the worsening global fiscal climate (which was a lot rosier a whole 3 weeks before they pulled out!) and b) because they were put off by media intrusion (denying various bids for various clubs). It seems amazing how blinded they must have been,coming into the english football scene it is obvious to even those with a basic grasp of the english media that they are in the main-sharks and dealt with the zabeel offer in a suitably tacky way. For the company to be put off because of this was a cop out and ultimately we are better rid of them imo.
Leicester, Bristol and Gloucester sell out week in week out, Wasps have a problem that Adams Park is too small, especially for European game, and Saracens are eying up other venues according to the rumours kicking about.
The potential for a Rugby club on this side of London is massive.
I think it was just a way of them registering how annoyed they were with the media in general....but I don't think it was a reason to have put them off....it was just a final passing shot at the media because of the bollox that had been spouted along the way, which understandably made them feel somewhat uncomfortable.
On reflection, one can hardly blame them for doing a moonie as the door closed behind them!
Yesterday's news 'The harsh reality of the global economic slowdown struck Twickenham yesterday....................warning of cost cuts and potential job losses........ Hospitality sales are running at 27% below budget and tickets for all three England mayches against Italy, France and Scotland, are for the first time in years still on public sale eight days before the tournament. The RFU has also instigated a crisis meeting of CEOs from the top ten rubgy nations to debate a coordinated response to the pressing financial issues affecting the sport.
......Crunch puts 2015 bid in doubt'
How does this fit with some of the above?
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Leicester, Bristol and Gloucester sell out week in week out, Wasps have a problem that Adams Park is too small, especially for European game, and Saracens are eying up other venues according to the rumours kicking about.
The potential for a Rugby club on this side of London is massive.
having a football club which isn't West Ham within walking distance of, er, West Ham wouls also be madness.
Especially when West Ham, once they get through their current crisis, will once again be eyeing up a move to, well, West Ham.
I'm no rugby fan, but a club moving into a high-profile, easy-to-get-to stadium is sure to be a success. Even Blackheath usually get 1,000 or so at the Rectory Field.
[cite]Posted By: InspectorSands[/cite]having a football club which isn't West Ham within walking distance of, er, West Ham wouls also be madness.
Especially when West Ham, once they get through their current crisis, will once again be eyeing up a move to, well, West Ham.
I'm no rugby fan, but a club moving into a high-profile, easy-to-get-to stadium is sure to be a success. Even Blackheath usually get 1,000 or so at the Rectory Field.
Liverpool and Everton seem to survive despite being within walking distance of each other.
As a rugby fan (and former player) myself I'm certainly not arguing against rugby. My point is simply to ask whether the demand from rugby ON IT'S OWN is sufficient to make the place pay which is my understanding of what has been suggested.
With the kind of money that Zabel have I don't see that they'd be worried about whether Charlton's wage bill was too high as a percentage of turnover. Bear in mind the other half of the family that owns Man City were prepared to pay £100m for Kaka and fund his £500k a week wages.
I suspect they pulled out because of a number of different reasons - they couldn't see how they'd make a profit unless they sold the ground/training ground for housing and more likely came to their senses and realised that the whole economic basis on which football is based is pure madness and that they'd be left owning a club substantially worth less than its market value. Or maybe they realised that in a few months there'd be one of several better opportunities coming their way - names such as Liverpool, West Ham etc which have considerably better name recognition internationally.
Unfortunately the Premiership is the only place to be - that drags in the big TV money and gets punters interested internationally and especially in Asia (the international Prem rights are worth £625m over three years alone), plus there is considerable money on offer for finishing in the bottom three. As we aren't in the Prem league and don't have great a great brand we are nowhere financially. Whoever advised Zabeel footballing very likely pointed out that the chances of promotion were two/three seasons away and therefore they'd have to spending millions just to get us into the premiership. At that point they'd have realised that there was better value elsewhere.
Stu dont worry he is hurting as we got his hopes up, never mind I will let it ride on this occasion but if the problem persists I will not be so forgiving;-) Did you go Hull 2day
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]Stu dont worry he is hurting as we got his hopes up, never mind I will let it ride on this occasion but if the problem persists I will not be so forgiving;-) Did you go Hull 2day
Very generous of you Steve. I think it's quite heartening to know that when our esteemed leading is honestl and open enough to admit he's been having a hard time of it the last few days, the rest of us collectively gather around him ............ and mercilessly put the boot in. Good stuff!
;o)
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]
Very generous of you Steve. I think it's quite heartening to know that when our esteemed leading is honestl and open enough to admit he's been having a hard time of it the last few days, the rest of us collectively gather around him ............ and mercilessly put the boot in. Good stuff!
;o)
I'll sign you up for the 'i've bumped into AFKA recently and he looks like sh!t' club that is gathering numbers on a daily basis !
Comments
I believe I am right in saying that, as MCFC tells it, it was the (Iron) Sheik Mo that warned off the Prince* because of these concerns in order to keep his options open with regards to purchasing his own club (whether Liverpool or otherwise I suppose).
*or perhaps the Prince showed dutiful deference to the Sheik
Somone ban this person for offensive language. I mean, what has he ever done for this site?
(By the way, agree completely!)
Lost the plot?... We were competing for Premier type players a few years back, and paying the going rate for them, with the ambition of staying on the gravy train…
Even doing that, we still looked like a fish out of water in the Premier League, because all I can remember about possible exciting transfer targets at the time, was that we could never get them due to wages...So we got what we got and we paid what the market dictated..With the team failing, the books became what they are now.
The truth is we were financially out of our depths in that world...
I don’t get this argument about our books “raising eyebrows”, What would Chelsea‘s, Man City‘s books look like without their respective sugar daddy‘s?
Surely our debt would have been looked at as nothing but small change to an outfit like Zabeel?
They were buying potential, at a good price, and with their financial clout could have fulfilled that potential..
Absolutely. Just as long as a member is prepared to be a ‘know-it-all’ rather than a ‘told-you-so’ eh Looky old mate?! ;-)
If a member is in the latter camp, he or she might find their threads sunk and suggestions made, by certain moderators, that ‘if you don’t like it’ then you can go elsewhere.
I’d love to cite some threads as cases in point where posters have been ‘advised’ or even ‘rebuked’ by moderators on here but, hey, guess what, they’ve been sunk…
One or two posters have been told their constant negativity about CAFC’s situation is repetitive and boring (despite the fact the club hasn't been in a worse situation in 25 years). Now, that’s fine, you might think, in an open debate. We all have opinions after all.
But being told that by actual moderators? Is that right? Shouldn’t moderators just ‘look out’, pardon the pun, for abuse, slander, racism etc – not the editorial pitch of a public forum??
Isn’t that what your columns and articles are for? The forum should be, as you say, a ‘lightning rod’ for anything and everything, within reasonable limits of politeness and decency, but when moderators suggest they are ‘tired’ of a particular angle on a debate and want things moved on, then I don’t find that neutral and uninvolved. That IS a form of attempted censorship I'm afraid.
It’s more like – it’s my football and I’ll be captain thanks!
You know, I can think of one poster who does absolutely nothing but defend the club’s decisions and also earns their living at the club(!), while another constantly sneers sarcastically at any perceived criticism of the way the club is run, all the while pathetically trumpeting their hammy CAFC social connections, but, hey, no-one 'official' ever seems to tire of those samey, predictable responses. Hmm…
I hasten to add that no-one has taken me to task on anything but I’ve always trumpeted transparency and impartiality and, in my opinion, it is sometimes compromised on here. That’s my considered view I’m afraid Looky old mate.
But my comment was merely a throwaway line, no less true for that, but your prickly response suggests I touched a nerve. Sorry about that.
But life is too short. So, whatever. Think what you like, you will anyway…
As to the dissection of my post regarding Zabeel. Well, you had to really.
Again, fine, but, I am very well placed to give quite informed opinion on this issue, but if the ‘soap opera’ version of what allegedly Sheikh Mohammed and his son decided floats your boat, then you lap it up…
I love the ‘dutiful deference to the Sheik (sic)’….sounds fascinating… ;-)
You can still look them up.. they're sunk not deleted.
Of course you've touched a nerve. A handful of people work very hard to keep this site going day-to-day, myself included. I take it personally when people misrepresent the site, throwaway comment or not. We've put a lot of hard work in. I'm going to dispute comments I think are unfair or just plain untrue.
In terms of Zabeel, I wrote my understanding of MCFC's position (as different from your understanding of his/her position)... not that of my own. I haven't the foggiest idea why Zabeel chose not to buy Charlton... and I won't speculate (at least not without declaring it first).
Depends on how much someone wants it, When Abramovich took over at Chelsea they were (and without him still are) in a dreadful state, as mentioned by Joeaddick.
......"He added that Zabeel would look at lower-profile opportunities without specifying if it would look at buying British soccer clubs in the future."......
Orient could fall into that category and the term "Pandoras Box" could mean a host of things regarding us as Sailor has intimated in a different way above.
I dont think Saracens wont leave Watford but could see Wasps moving over.
There is a HUGE untapped market for rugby in London/South East England.
If I want to take my boys to see a Prem Rugby club I have to go to Twickenham at the mo.
Westfield wouldnt want football fans going through their flagship centre thats for sure.
You are right there is a huge untapped rugby market (Why don't Blackheath sort themselves out? I digress) but is it big enough on its own?
Even in established rugby areas such as Leicester and Bristol the grounds are rarely if ever full to capacity especially those who share with football clubs. Bath is the only Premiership Club I can think of whose ground (the Recreation Ground) is too small for regular attendances.
I think there will be (have to be) some sort of ground share with a football club to make the place pay in the longterm.
The potential for a Rugby club on this side of London is massive.
On reflection, one can hardly blame them for doing a moonie as the door closed behind them!
......Crunch puts 2015 bid in doubt'
How does this fit with some of the above?
LOL That's why Blackheath pack them in every week
Northampton Saints also run at over 90% of capacity on average.
The Guiness Premiership: Slightly ahead of the Norwegian Premier league and the Korean Baseball League.
Watch out Football
Especially when West Ham, once they get through their current crisis, will once again be eyeing up a move to, well, West Ham.
I'm no rugby fan, but a club moving into a high-profile, easy-to-get-to stadium is sure to be a success. Even Blackheath usually get 1,000 or so at the Rectory Field.
Liverpool and Everton seem to survive despite being within walking distance of each other.
As a rugby fan (and former player) myself I'm certainly not arguing against rugby. My point is simply to ask whether the demand from rugby ON IT'S OWN is sufficient to make the place pay which is my understanding of what has been suggested.
they are a bunch of flippin financial slappers....
as far as Im concerned they can get f$$ked
I suspect they pulled out because of a number of different reasons - they couldn't see how they'd make a profit unless they sold the ground/training ground for housing and more likely came to their senses and realised that the whole economic basis on which football is based is pure madness and that they'd be left owning a club substantially worth less than its market value. Or maybe they realised that in a few months there'd be one of several better opportunities coming their way - names such as Liverpool, West Ham etc which have considerably better name recognition internationally.
Unfortunately the Premiership is the only place to be - that drags in the big TV money and gets punters interested internationally and especially in Asia (the international Prem rights are worth £625m over three years alone), plus there is considerable money on offer for finishing in the bottom three. As we aren't in the Prem league and don't have great a great brand we are nowhere financially. Whoever advised Zabeel footballing very likely pointed out that the chances of promotion were two/three seasons away and therefore they'd have to spending millions just to get us into the premiership. At that point they'd have realised that there was better value elsewhere.
i've changed my mind !
Very generous of you Steve. I think it's quite heartening to know that when our esteemed leading is honestl and open enough to admit he's been having a hard time of it the last few days, the rest of us collectively gather around him ............ and mercilessly put the boot in. Good stuff!
;o)
I'll sign you up for the 'i've bumped into AFKA recently and he looks like sh!t' club that is gathering numbers on a daily basis !