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Friday question (on a Wednesday) - teaching methods

edited March 2009 in Not Sports Related
To all you parents or teachers out there

Does anyone think this a bit harsh

My 9 year old has a new teacher, fresh out of Teacher School, beginning of the last school year.

Anyway regularly they give the kids spelling tests on a Friday and she scores well. All fine.

The new teacher however decided that not only should the 15 words be l learnt in advance but also memorised, meaning she wouldn't read them out on the day.

My nipper was quite stressed about this as you can imagine, I just wondered if this was normal teaching method as we thought it was a bit extreme/sudden.

R
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Comments

  • [cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]To all you parents or teachers out there

    Does anyone think this a bit harsh

    My 9 year old has a new teacher, fresh out of Teacher School, beginning of the last school year.

    Anyway regularly they give the kids spelling tests on a Friday and she scores well. All fine.

    The new teacher however decided that not only should the 15 words be l learnt in advance but also memorised, meaning she wouldn't read them out on the day.

    My nipper was quite stressed about this as you can imagine, I just wondered if this was normal teaching method as we thought it was a bit extreme/sudden.

    R

    Learning in advance is common enough but I've not encountered the memory test before with any of mine.
  • i tried learning after the test ------------- got me where i am today
  • edited March 2009
    Generally speaking I think there's far too much testing in schools. I think it makes kids fearsome, resentful and bored and is probably the biggest barrier we have to education in this country. That said, I think that spelling tests are an exception and should be used appropriately as a fine-measure of what still needs to be learned.

    If I've understood your post correctly though this teacher is lumping together a spelling test with a memory test. This is totally preposterous! I don't know what the new teacher thinks they are doing, but such a test will achieve nothing but a classroom of alienated kids. She should have been taught in college that the cornerstone of good testing (or indeed any scientific activity) is to separate out all the variables. If someone does badly on their test, what will that say; that they are bad at spelling? that they have a poor memory? that they couldn't concentrate because the rules have changed? It could be any, all or none of those things. The only thing we'd learn for certain that it is a poor test.

    If a teacher wants to check spelling ability they should run a (properly conducted) spelling test, if they want to find out who has a good memory or not they should try something like playing Kim's Game. By confusing to two, they will probably just confuse the kids.
  • That is a very good point, are you speaking as a teacher?
  • Agree with Stig. It's bonkers.
  • What's Kim's Game?

    At Henry jnrs School they have to write a sentence using the new word in the correct context for homework (spelling and meaning) and then do a test during the week.

    They also do 20 mental arithmetic questions
  • I don't have a problem with pushing the kids a bit, but to go from nothing to being expected to recall 15 words is harsh in my view and would be tough on anyone, let alone primary school kids. I've told her just to do her best, do the learning, and not worry about getting it wrong.
  • [cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]That is a very good point, are you speaking as a teacher?

    No, I'm a psychologist with qualifications in adult training.
  • Stig are you Alan Pardew ?
  • ah velly interesting Dr Freud, I mean Stig

    :)
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  • edited March 2009
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]What's Kim's Game?

    At Henry jnrs School they have to write a sentence using the new word in the correct context for homework (spelling and meaning) and then do a test during the week.

    They also do 20 mental arithmetic questions

    Kim's game is a method for testing memory, where you put a number of items on a tray or table top, give people a certain amount of time to look at it and then see how many they can recall. You can test in different ways by varying the number of items, the viewing time, the time lapsed between viewing and recall, giving prompts to recall and a number of other things . The beauty of it is that as well as being very flexible, you can make it like a party game so that the kids just think they are having fun rather than being tested.
  • speaking as a teachers hubbie and a parent that sounds a bit strange. I will ask the wife if she can think of a reason why a teacher would do that. Although if you are concerned about it ask the teacher what their thinking was, most are fairly approachable and happy to discuss things like this. If it is important bring it up asap if you think less so then ask at the next parents evening, that is what they are for. We regularly bombard our children's teachers with questions during paretns evenings as long as you are polite about it you may get a sensible answer (not always guaranteed though sadly).
  • [cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Stig are you Alan Pardew ?

    No but I wish I had his money ;-)
  • begs the question who pays him
  • it's not tuesday ????
  • go to the top of the class, no one else spotted the deliberate mistake... ;)
  • ha ha ha Yes - but i feel as i go top we'll all stay bottom really ;o)
  • I think you should stop feeling you're bottom..
  • [cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]What's Kim's Game?

    At Henry jnrs School they have to write a sentence using the new word in the correct context for homework (spelling and meaning) and then do a test during the week.

    They also do 20 mental arithmetic questions

    Kim's game is a method for testing memory, where you put a number of items on a tray or table top, give people a certain amount of time to look at it and then see how many they can recall. You can test in different ways by varying the number of items, the viewing time, the time lapsed between viewing and recall, giving prompts to recall and a number of other things . The beauty of it is that as well as being very flexible, you can make it like a party game so that the kids just think they are having fun rather than being tested.

    We used to play that game at parties when I was a kid - good fun.
  • This is not new. When I was at school, admittidly in senior school, we had a French test every week. We had to learn twenty words, their spelling and meaning.
    If a teacher says the word you can take a guess at how its spelled. By learning the words as well you have to study harder.
    For once teachers are aking children work as hard as they used to.
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  • edited March 2009
    [cite]Posted By: Centenary_Shirt[/cite]This is not new. When I was at school, admittidly in senior school, we had a French test every week. We had to learn twenty words, their spelling and meaning.
    If a teacher says the word you can take a guess at how its spelled. By learning the words as well you have to study harder.
    For once teachers are aking children work as hard as they used to.
    Whereas when I was in primary school, we didn't get homework at all. I only got Maths homework when I was eleven because my Mum specifically asked for it. People harking on about "children not working as hard as they used to" helps no-one.

    As Stig said above, this test is testing their memory and their spelling at the same time, so it doesn't necessarily give you meaningful data about either. If the kid only writes down 5 words, is that because they can only remember 5, or can only remember how to spell five? If one of the words they should have learnt was "flour" but they wrote down "flower", was that because they remembered the wrong word or the wrong spelling? To be honest, I'd argue that it's a more useful skill to be able to work out how a word should be spelled from how it sounds, rather than just learning the entire word by rote, as it helps you develop the skills to tackle unfamiliar words.
  • If one of the words they should have learnt was "flour" but they wrote down "flower", was that because they remembered the wrong word or the wrong spelling?
    It's unusual in a spelling test to give a question without putting the word into context. In a spelling test you would say the word being tested followed by a sentence containing the word "flower", as in..
    ".. the flower looked beautiful", or alternatively, ".. Jane added Flour to her cake mixture".

    I've just started temping in a primary school in East London and quite frankly I'm a bit shocked at the amount of pressure put onto the children regarding tests. I've only ever worked in Secndary and special needs schools where SAT's have thankfully been abandoned. SAT's are still used in primary schools in my opinion not to gauge the ability of the pupils but to ensure that the school moves up the national league tables. Testing of pupils begins at a stupidly early stage in order to prepare them for the kinds of tests they will encounter in year 6 and so, as early as year 3, pupils are taught English Maths and Science almost exclusively and tested on their subject knowledge.
    My nipper was quite stressed about this as you can imagine, I just wondered if this was normal teaching method as we thought it was a bit extreme/sudden.
    It could be Raz that, as you say, the teaching being recently qualified, is being a little bit over keen. My advice would be to see how things go to start off with, if your kid seems really put out by this kind of testing it might be worth having a polite word in the teachers ear expressing your concerns. The whole thing sounds like an American method, a bit like a spelling bee.
  • Have spoken to teacher last night, and she agreed it might have been introduced a bit quickly and may be a bit hard on the kids. I got the impression from meeting her that she was deffo 'fresh' out of teaching school. I didn't want to make her job any more difficult but feedback is very important. She also clearly had problems with discipline.
  • Wen i woz at skool we wer arsked to spell a wurd. n if we got it rong teecher frashed us wiv a cane.
    Thats wy my spelleng is so good.
  • your punctuation and grammar are ok though...
  • Mate it happened in real life. Lost count how many times i was caned/slippered/ T squared t had the ruler across the nuckles. Al from one scum bag because i couldnt (to them wouldnt) spell. I had been working for aprox 2 years and walking towards my mums house 1 day the said scum bag sees me comes bounding over road and shakes my hand with "how are you etc etc etc etc" ------------ i was stunned i honestly thought of twating him right there in the street ! if i had OB would have nicked he for asult but what did he do for 3 years ?
    Another used to pick you up by your hair sometimes he would actually ripe it out. Move behind you grab your hair and yank head back ------nice. After 20 years we had a class reunion and some one invited this wanker. After a few beers i asked him if he wuld like to attempt that on anyone there and then ? must have lost he bollox in the 20 years as he didnt seem like he wanted to or for that matter stay around.
  • i don't think anyone would send you down for smacking them one after what they did.
  • [cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Mate it happened in real life. Lost count how many times i was caned/slippered/ T squared t had the ruler across the nuckles. Al from one scum bag because i couldnt (to them wouldnt) spell. I had been working for aprox 2 years and walking towards my mums house 1 day the said scum bag sees me comes bounding over road and shakes my hand with "how are you etc etc etc etc"
    i was stunned i honestly thought of twating him right there in the street ! if i had OB would have nicked he for asult but what did he do for 3 years ?
    Another used to pick you up by your hair sometimes he would actually ripe it out. Move behind you grab your hair and yank head back
    nice. After 20 years we had a class reunion and some one invited this wanker. After a few beers i asked him if he wuld like to attempt that on anyone there and then ? must have lost he bollox in the 20 years as he didnt seem like he wanted to or for that matter stay around.

    Blame the liberal lefty Guardian reading PC brigade mate,they have taken all that power away from the teachers.
  • Parents advising teacher not to pressure their darlings = "She also clearly had problems with discipline."

    If I ran home to Mummy every time I didn't like something at school and she went and complained to the teacher I imagine I wouldn't have much respect for the teacher either.
  • edited March 2009
    thats quite a judgemental (and somewhat confusing) comment to make without knowing many of the facts about the situation old sport.

    However I agree (if that's the point you are making) that you should take what your child says with pinch of salt, there are always two sides to every story. I also took the precaution of talking to lots of other parents of kids in the same class, and trod carefully when presenting it to teacher.

    The Teacher also admitted to me she was having problems with the discipline of the class the previous term, born out by what my little soldierette had reported back to us.
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