I'll be voting, always do. However, I've forgotten my card so I'm hoping that the nice man will let me in anyway! Vote Match said I should go for Libertas, which I don't know much about, but I will have a Google and see what I can find out.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]http://www.whathaseuropedone.eu[br<][/br<]/> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6455879.stm[li class=Alternate id=Comment_468452 value=0][url][/url][div class=CommentHeader noWrap=false][ul compact=false][li value=0][span]CommentAuthor[/span]Wilma[/li][li value=0][span]CommentTime[/span]3 minutes ago[/li][/ul][span] [url=]quote[/url]# 64[/span][/div][div class=CommentBody id=CommentBody_468452 noWrap=false]I'll be voting, always do. However, I've forgotten my card so I'm hoping that the nice man will let me in anyway! Vote Match said I should go for Libertas, which I don't know much about, but I will have a Google and see what I can find out.[/div][/li]
Can't see the link.
To try to summarise a complicated subject in a sentence or two. There is nothing wrong with an ECONOMIC agreement with other countries, eg EFTA it is the POLITICAL dimension that I object to primarily on the grounds of lack of democratic accountability.
[cite]Posted By: - the BRIC nations (Brazil, India and China) .[/cite]
[cite]
BRIC = Brazil, Russia, India & China
Sorry to be a pedant but it is an acronym invented by a good friend of mine.[/cite]
Yep, I missed Russia...but my point is a decade or so ago these countries were relatively speaking small economic entities, now they can't be ignored. Being a part of the EU gives us that clout.
[cite]Posted By: Wilma[/cite]I'll be voting, always do. However, I've forgotten my card so I'm hoping that the nice man will let me in anyway! Vote Match said I should go for Libertas, which I don't know much about, but I will have a Google and see what I can find out.
Was shocked that they couldn't pull up on a computer the current standings. Broken Britain or what but one nice lady said that she thought we'd sell 11,000 season tickets by the start of the season.
To try to summarise a complicated subject in a sentence or two. There is nothing wrong with an ECONOMIC agreement with other countries, eg EFTA it is the POLITICAL dimension that I object to primarily on the grounds of lack of democratic accountability.[/quote]
You can't have an economic agreement without having a political agreement. For example you might want to see the free flow of capital across member States, that would entail a company being able to set up offices/manufacturing facilities in other States, but that can only be achieved if you have political union.
To try to summarise a complicated subject in a sentence or two. There is nothing wrong with an ECONOMIC agreement with other countries, eg EFTA it is the POLITICAL dimension that I object to primarily on the grounds of lack of democratic accountability.
You can't have an economic agreement without having a political agreement. For example you might want to see the free flow of capital across member States, that would entail a company being able to set up offices/manufacturing facilities in other States, but that can only be achieved if you have political union.
Can you not achieve it with inter governmental agreements?
[cite]Posted By: Addickted[/cite]I keep hearing about the trading power of the EU.
Would countries - including the EU ones - stop trading with us?
As a net importer of goods, I can only see them losing out if they put up trading barriers.
They wouldn't stop trading with us, but capital has a habit of taking the line of least resistance. Do you concentrate on a market in Europe with no trade barriers and the free flow of money and people...or go after the British market and pay customs duties?
"condem ourselves to economic via oblivion via little englishness" ------------------------- this would be the "little englishness" of not having our own parliament ? this would be "little englishness" with out any type of generalisation or racial slur then. Stunning --------- truely stunning in a debate over the last few days about people voting for a ultra far right party that you think that statements OK ?
To try to summarise a complicated subject in a sentence or two. There is nothing wrong with an ECONOMIC agreement with other countries, eg EFTA it is the POLITICAL dimension that I object to primarily on the grounds of lack of democratic accountability.
You can't have an economic agreement without having a political agreement. For example you might want to see the free flow of capital across member States, that would entail a company being able to set up offices/manufacturing facilities in other States, but that can only be achieved if you have political union.
Can you not achieve it with inter governmental agreements?
That would mean dealing with every single European government, which would lead to a lot of bureaucracy and a very unlevel playing field. Say we negotiate something with say the German government, who then in turn negotiate with the Czechs who undercut our deal with Germany. All in all not very practical and much better that we have one set of rules governing tarde in Europe.
The EU needs reforming and more transparency - UKIP should concentrate on getting us a better deal rather than in campaigning for total withdrawal.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]I have done the deed.
Was shocked that they couldn't pull up on a computer the current standings. Broken Britain or what but one nice lady said that she thought we'd sell 11,000 season tickets by the start of the season.
[cite]Posted By: Wilma[/cite]I'll be voting, always do. However, I've forgotten my card so I'm hoping that the nice man will let me in anyway! Vote Match said I should go for Libertas, which I don't know much about, but I will have a Google and see what I can find out.
There is no compulsion to take your polling card.
Thank you. I know that if I go home first, I'll sit down with a cuppa and that's where I'll stay!
[cite]Posted By: Addickted[/cite]I keep hearing about the trading power of the EU.
Would countries - including the EU ones - stop trading with us?
As a net importer of goods, I can only see them losing out if they put up trading barriers.
They wouldn't stop trading with us, but capital has a habit of taking the line of least resistance. Do you concentrate on a market in Europe with no trade barriers and the free flow of money and people...or go after the British market and pay customs duties?
Last time I looked, the UK has no trade berriers and the free flow of money and people. All countries charge customs duties.
If an American wants to buy a Rolls Royce he's hardly likely to get it from downtown Lisbon.
Lewisham Council have disenfranchised me, went to vote told I had a postal vote .. that was last year, when they screwed me then by giving my postal vote to my wife then told me they never received an application from me. This year, was told I had a postal vote even though they had not received an application, which they agreed to cancel, got there ... not revoked!! two years running unable to vote.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]That would mean dealing with every single European government, which would lead to a lot of bureaucracy and a very unlevel playing field.
It seemed pretty level for the UK in the previous 250 years. I'm sure our traditional allies in the Commonwealth, would be more than glad of us not being tied up into a cosy European Cartel.
If we pull out we can still negotiate with EU nations en bloc - at least they'd learn to deal with us in English. Are you aware of the number of translators that are under the employ of the EC?
Last time I looked, the UK has no trade berriers and the free flow of money and people. All countries charge customs duties.
........
Yep, but only with the EU, not with non-EU nations. Try exporting to America or going to live there - without a green card it's impossible. A friend was offered a great job in New Jersey last year - good money, promotion, more experience etc, but couldn't get the green card...however if he'd been offered the same job in another EU nation all he'd have to do is find somewhere to live.
Clem, years ago my parents house used to be a Labour Party meeting place on election day. Mum used to do counting at the Polling station, Dad used to go and encourage people to vote . I remember long before i could vote staying up late and waiting for the first results to come in.
seems a million years ago.Dad been gone a few years now, he wouldt understand or recognise his Laboour Party or our MPs today. Mum wont vote (first time ever), Means alot to me that people do vote.Not that long back women couldnt and so many millions in the World dont get the chance.
[cite]Posted By: JWADDICK[/cite]As I am not even on the electoral register I Iam delighted to say that I shall play no part whatsoever in today's meaningless charade
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Last time I looked, the UK has no trade berriers and the free flow of money and people. All countries charge customs duties.
........
Yep, but only with the EU, not with non-EU nations. Try exporting to America or going to live there - without a green card it's impossible. A friend was offered a great job in New Jersey last year - good money, promotion, more experience etc, but couldn't get the green card...however if he'd been offered the same job in another EU nation all he'd have to do is find somewhere to live.
So being in the EU was of no help to your friend.
If we pulled out of the EU and joined (say) NAFTA, then he would have been welcomed with open arms.
We can deal with the rest of the World without our hands tied behind our back.
My vote match comes out with Liberta's. Had a look on their site and they seem pretty impressive, but then again I suppose they would.
Isn't it funny how the BNP don't actually represent Britsh values at all ? And how the English democrat's seem to want to take England 700 years into the past, possibly by starting a war with Scotland/Wales over their Parliament's (have they not seen that big building in Westminster?).
I remember learning in econimics a couple of years ago, in the EU the UK has a say. If we left, we'd still be equally affected by it due to globalisation but we'd just have no say in those things which affect us. It's a no brainer really, but I'd like to see us try and encourage FTA's with maybe the Aussies and the Canadians.
Actually the English Decocrats on their site PROMOTE the SNP amd Plaid Cmyru --------- so how is that taking us back 700 years and starting a war ? do please tell me how wanting the SAME democratic power as those living in the other parts of the UK is wrong ? Yes seen that big building in Westminster so why is there assemblies in Wales/Scotland and NI but should the English want one it would "split the Union". How is this devolved power but the largest group of people arnt included ?
you know we're supposed to have a secret ballot, and I realise that people are only supposed to vote once and stuff....but when you go to the polling station, they tear off the voting sheet, which has a number that is also on the voting sheet 'stub'. On the stub they record your details (a voter number or something), so if they wanted to they could trace who you voted for. It would be a mammoth task for the parties that get loads of votes, but if, say, 400 people voted for the Monster Raving Loonies, you could keep that pile of votes, and trace the 400 relatively quickly to find out who voted looney (or BNP, or Extreme left/right or whatever), it may even be a quick process with a computer what with laser reading technology or whatever. So get the voting slip, match the number to the 'stub', see who the stub refers to....presumably this way they can get people who vote twice...but a secret ballot it is not.
[cite]Posted By: JWADDICK[/cite]As I am not even on the electoral register I Iam delighted to say that I shall play no part whatsoever in today's meaningless charade
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Actually the English Decocrats on their site PROMOTE the SNP amd Plaid Cmyru
so how is that taking us back 700 years and starting a war ? do please tell me how wanting the SAME democratic power as those living in the other parts of the UK is wrong ? Yes seen that big building in Westminster so why is there assemblies in Wales/Scotland and NI but should the English want one it would "split the Union". How is this devolved power but the largest group of people arnt included ?
The Scottish Parliament has powers devolved to it from the British (English) Parliament, however there are still many powers, which are known as reserved matters, such as immigration, foreign policy etc which are decided upon solely in Westminster. That means the tory-inspired fallacy of Scottish MP’s voting on English matters is actually the wrong way round. The most important matters (non-devolved) are decided on as explained, in Westmister, therefore the vast majority of MP’s deciding on these issues are English, indeed, hypothetically even if all the Scottish MP’s voted against a proposed war (as with Iraq) then their vote would mean nothing if even a small majority of English MP’s agreed it.
So who has the power really ?
Also the non-reserved matters (those which the Westminster Parliament deem Wales, Scotland and Ireland to be sufficiently intelligent enough to decide for themselves) which are decided upon in Westminster affect only England (and often Wales due to their status as a Principality, not a country) therefore the English already have their Parliament for domestic matters. Quite how setting up another level of buerocracy – such as an “English” Parliament, with all the dodgy elected peers and red tape that goes with this would benefit England in anyway seems a mystery.
The SNP will destroy Scotland if they ever had their chance, luckily I don't think they will.
Comments
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6455879.stm
Can't see the link.
To try to summarise a complicated subject in a sentence or two. There is nothing wrong with an ECONOMIC agreement with other countries, eg EFTA it is the POLITICAL dimension that I object to primarily on the grounds of lack of democratic accountability.
BRIC = Brazil, Russia, India & China
Sorry to be a pedant but it is an acronym invented by a good friend of mine.
Yep, I missed Russia...but my point is a decade or so ago these countries were relatively speaking small economic entities, now they can't be ignored. Being a part of the EU gives us that clout.
There is no compulsion to take your polling card.
Was shocked that they couldn't pull up on a computer the current standings. Broken Britain or what but one nice lady said that she thought we'd sell 11,000 season tickets by the start of the season.
Can't see the link.
To try to summarise a complicated subject in a sentence or two. There is nothing wrong with an ECONOMIC agreement with other countries, eg EFTA it is the POLITICAL dimension that I object to primarily on the grounds of lack of democratic accountability.[/quote]
You can't have an economic agreement without having a political agreement. For example you might want to see the free flow of capital across member States, that would entail a company being able to set up offices/manufacturing facilities in other States, but that can only be achieved if you have political union.
Would countries - including the EU ones - stop trading with us?
As a net importer of goods, I can only see them losing out if they put up trading barriers.
Can you not achieve it with inter governmental agreements?
They wouldn't stop trading with us, but capital has a habit of taking the line of least resistance. Do you concentrate on a market in Europe with no trade barriers and the free flow of money and people...or go after the British market and pay customs duties?
That would mean dealing with every single European government, which would lead to a lot of bureaucracy and a very unlevel playing field. Say we negotiate something with say the German government, who then in turn negotiate with the Czechs who undercut our deal with Germany. All in all not very practical and much better that we have one set of rules governing tarde in Europe.
The EU needs reforming and more transparency - UKIP should concentrate on getting us a better deal rather than in campaigning for total withdrawal.
Red or Blue S/T's ?
Or Green....)
Thank you. I know that if I go home first, I'll sit down with a cuppa and that's where I'll stay!
Last time I looked, the UK has no trade berriers and the free flow of money and people. All countries charge customs duties.
If an American wants to buy a Rolls Royce he's hardly likely to get it from downtown Lisbon.
It seemed pretty level for the UK in the previous 250 years. I'm sure our traditional allies in the Commonwealth, would be more than glad of us not being tied up into a cosy European Cartel.
If we pull out we can still negotiate with EU nations en bloc - at least they'd learn to deal with us in English. Are you aware of the number of translators that are under the employ of the EC?
........
Yep, but only with the EU, not with non-EU nations. Try exporting to America or going to live there - without a green card it's impossible. A friend was offered a great job in New Jersey last year - good money, promotion, more experience etc, but couldn't get the green card...however if he'd been offered the same job in another EU nation all he'd have to do is find somewhere to live.
seems a million years ago.Dad been gone a few years now, he wouldt understand or recognise his Laboour Party or our MPs today. Mum wont vote (first time ever),
Means alot to me that people do vote.Not that long back women couldnt and so many millions in the World dont get the chance.
Me too, and long may I continue to be invisible.
So being in the EU was of no help to your friend.
If we pulled out of the EU and joined (say) NAFTA, then he would have been welcomed with open arms.
We can deal with the rest of the World without our hands tied behind our back.
Isn't it funny how the BNP don't actually represent Britsh values at all ? And how the English democrat's seem to want to take England 700 years into the past, possibly by starting a war with Scotland/Wales over their Parliament's (have they not seen that big building in Westminster?).
I remember learning in econimics a couple of years ago, in the EU the UK has a say. If we left, we'd still be equally affected by it due to globalisation but we'd just have no say in those things which affect us. It's a no brainer really, but I'd like to see us try and encourage FTA's with maybe the Aussies and the Canadians.
It would be a mammoth task for the parties that get loads of votes, but if, say, 400 people voted for the Monster Raving Loonies, you could keep that pile of votes, and trace the 400 relatively quickly to find out who voted looney (or BNP, or Extreme left/right or whatever), it may even be a quick process with a computer what with laser reading technology or whatever. So get the voting slip, match the number to the 'stub', see who the stub refers to....presumably this way they can get people who vote twice...but a secret ballot it is not.
Who said that.......
The Scottish Parliament has powers devolved to it from the British (English) Parliament, however there are still many powers, which are known as reserved matters, such as immigration, foreign policy etc which are decided upon solely in Westminster. That means the tory-inspired fallacy of Scottish MP’s voting on English matters is actually the wrong way round. The most important matters (non-devolved) are decided on as explained, in Westmister, therefore the vast majority of MP’s deciding on these issues are English, indeed, hypothetically even if all the Scottish MP’s voted against a proposed war (as with Iraq) then their vote would mean nothing if even a small majority of English MP’s agreed it.
So who has the power really ?
Also the non-reserved matters (those which the Westminster Parliament deem Wales, Scotland and Ireland to be sufficiently intelligent enough to decide for themselves) which are decided upon in Westminster affect only England (and often Wales due to their status as a Principality, not a country) therefore the English already have their Parliament for domestic matters. Quite how setting up another level of buerocracy – such as an “English” Parliament, with all the dodgy elected peers and red tape that goes with this would benefit England in anyway seems a mystery.
The SNP will destroy Scotland if they ever had their chance, luckily I don't think they will.
Interesting debate.