[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]McCarthy was poor at the start but towards the end of the season he was quite solid.
Really not much between him and Hudson, certainly not as there is made out to be.
Agree with that, we basically swaped like for like. McCarthy started slowly and then had a bit of a purple patch around February and March, but I thought the mistakes were creeping back in again towards the end.
Hudson was/is an average Champs centre back, he has his flaws but he's not the complete carthorse some think and I don't expect Llera to be a whole deal better. The big issue with Hudson (like so many of our recent squad) is we are/were paying him wages of a much better player. It's not so much that he is a terrible player, just terrible value for money.
He also lacked a complementary partner for much of his time which highlighted the weaknesses. If Boogie had stayed to sweep up behind him it may have worked out - someone like Youds certainly wouldn't have been the same without Rufus.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]Hudson was/is an average Champs centre back, he has his flaws but he's not the complete carthorse some think and I don't expect Llera to be a whole deal better. The big issue with Hudson (like so many of our recent squad) is we are/were paying him wages of a much better player. It's not so much that he is a terrible player, just terrible value for money.
I think that's true about the value for money. If we had just signed Hudson this summer on £4k a week, his performances this season would be the kind we expect.
He'd have looked better if he didn't have the pressure of being captain and if we had a good season. This time next year, Cardiff fans, or whoever he signs for, will probably be rating him higher than we do. Just like Palace fans do with McCarthy.
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Crikey, some of you lot would say Geoff Thomas was better tha Gazza.
*gives up*
Of course not, I just think and others have agreed there isn't much between Hudson and McCarthy. Both at a similar level, and we never saw the best of either consistently.
From watching both of them, I don't see anything extra either do over the other. McCarthy would have probably been a better captain, Hudson a little, but not much, better on the ball.
[cite]Posted By: Simonsen[/cite]
PS Who's the best defensive header of a ball any of you have ever seen play for Charlton? The cleanest timer, who very rarely got beaten to long clearances and nutted them away a proper distance? (not like Fortune who can't jump well, doesn't attack it and doesn't get much power) I can only go back to the early 80's but I know who I think it is...and it may surprise some. Let's hear your choices first.
[cite]Posted By: Simonsen[/cite]
PS Who's the best defensive header of a ball any of you have ever seen play for Charlton? The cleanest timer, who very rarely got beaten to long clearances and nutted them away a proper distance? (not like Fortune who can't jump well, doesn't attack it and doesn't get much power) I can only go back to the early 80's but I know who I think it is...and it may surprise some. Let's hear your choices first.
Can't agree with Costa as being a brilliant header of the ball. He was an excellent centre-back (one of the best we've ever had I should imagine) but rather like Paul Miller, his strength was his strength. Good tackler, great blocker, good man marker, iron-willed but needed a centre back who was dominant in the air next to him .
Shirtliff was very good in the air. Rarely beaten. An ideal partner for the more gifted Colin Pates.
Youds had an awful debut v Forest (Van Hooijdonk & Cambpell) but we won. He lost practically every header in that game and resorted to constant fouling but got much better and once he'd settled in he turned out to be pretty strong. Did struggle with Quinn in the play-off final but hey ho.
Webster....very very good in the air. We beat Huddersfield 3-0 at Selhurst in our 2nd Div promotion season and he was at the back for them. I told the boys we should sign him and they told me to f*ck off...but to me he really looked the business in a poor team (Curbishley played that day....I wonder if he clocked him?) At 125k he must rate as one of our best ever signings.
Didn't see enough of Paul Elliott at Charlton...two or three games and then he was sold to Luton. Obviously know he was a class defender but can't comment on his heading prowess.
Didn't see Frank Haydock but will take your word on him.
Rufus was the best centre-half I've seen at Charlton. Very decent in the air but his main strength was his aggression, speed and tackling. Some of his last ditch recovery stuff was stunning. He was our version of Des Walker.
I think the cleanest header of a ball I saw (with a forward jumping in front of him) was Carl Tiler (he used his extra height in a way that Greg Halford should!). Definitely not the best defender by a long way and overall was a disappointing signing (Clough regretted signing him for Forest too) but he was excellent in the air. Unfortunately he was probably more suited to more direct stuff lower down the divisions!
Seeing as we're off the thread of Hudson leaving....who's the best centre back you've EVER seen play? (live not TV). Not talking about seeing Bobby Moore say, have an average game for Fulham and then go on reputation and folklore. Actually who you saw have the game of their lives or every time you saw them, they looked brilliant. Here's mine....
Colin Todd (Oxford United v Brentford..aged 37. Faultless)
Mark Wright...every time Derby played us. Had pretty much everything.
Kevin Beattie....Simonsen's first match v Boro. He was absolutely top class even though his legs were gone.
Paul Parker...played us on his own in a worse than shit Fulham side at Selhurst (the 2-0 win that practically guaranteed promotion)
Des Walker....we never got much out of him. In fact, nobody did...until he really was too old.
John Terry at Stamford Bridge....until he left Lisbie alone to score the winner in the last minute! He'd done everything right up until then and looked a nailed on England centre back even at such a young age.
PS: Anyone ever see John Charles? A lot of great judges have him down as the best header of a ball they've ever seen.
I've never been a great judge of opposition players, I'm usually far too engrossed in what our lot are up to to take much notice of whos playing well for them, unless it's unavoidable like someone scoring a hatrick or something.
Back in the Premiership days I do remember playing Chelsea and pretty much every ball we put into their box some how always picking out Terry, and a similar kind of thing with Ferdinand at United and Carragher.
My all time favourite defender always has been, and I suspect always will be, Richard Rufus. I know he wasn't really the best around, but for us he was such a collosus at times. I remember an away game at Brum, probably in about 95 or 96, when they broke away from a Charlton attack and their striker got clear of the last man with about 40 yards to our goal. I forget his name but he was very quick, but not quicker than Rufus, who came from so far away he was only just in the periphary of my vision, in fact I didn't notice him at first, but he came steaming across at what seemed near supernatural speed and took the ball cleanly off the guys toes and cleared. The ground he made up on a quick player to save a lost cause was phenominal. I think we won 1-0 or drew 1-1. Either way he saved us points that day and that one episode marked him down a bit of hero, in my then young eyes, long before he really established himself as a club great with his playoff heroics and all the rest.
Does mean we still only have two centre backs Llera and Fortune and it's not even certain that Fortune has agreed a new contract yet and he is a bit injury prone. Would expect to see us signing a few defenders hopefully.
Hudson would have been good in League One for us, but if this money means we get to keep one of Bailey/Shelvey/Racon I don't mind.
Never really performed for us which was disappointing seeing as he was the captain. If his sale means we can afford to bring in Sodje then i won't be too gutted at him going.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]The thing is the total "fee" may be £1M but that may include signing on fee etc for Hudson.
Well, this is what the Cardiff report actually says:
".....Charlton Athletic’s commanding central defender will have a full-day medical starting this morning and is expected to sign for the Bluebirds in a deal worth £1m this evening."
So I guees we draw our own conclusions. Or wait for details to be finalised.
....."Reflecting on last season, the Valley boss added: "Obviously we are short on cover at the back, and Mark Hudson is the only recognised centre-half we have got signed up.
"The one thing we want to avoid is the situation last year where we lacked cover at the back all season. Over the course of the season we are going to need a squad and Miguel is a good addition to that.
Comments
Agree with that, we basically swaped like for like. McCarthy started slowly and then had a bit of a purple patch around February and March, but I thought the mistakes were creeping back in again towards the end.
Hudson was/is an average Champs centre back, he has his flaws but he's not the complete carthorse some think and I don't expect Llera to be a whole deal better. The big issue with Hudson (like so many of our recent squad) is we are/were paying him wages of a much better player. It's not so much that he is a terrible player, just terrible value for money.
He also lacked a complementary partner for much of his time which highlighted the weaknesses. If Boogie had stayed to sweep up behind him it may have worked out - someone like Youds certainly wouldn't have been the same without Rufus.
*gives up*
I think that's true about the value for money. If we had just signed Hudson this summer on £4k a week, his performances this season would be the kind we expect.
He'd have looked better if he didn't have the pressure of being captain and if we had a good season. This time next year, Cardiff fans, or whoever he signs for, will probably be rating him higher than we do. Just like Palace fans do with McCarthy.
Of course not, I just think and others have agreed there isn't much between Hudson and McCarthy. Both at a similar level, and we never saw the best of either consistently.
From watching both of them, I don't see anything extra either do over the other. McCarthy would have probably been a better captain, Hudson a little, but not much, better on the ball.
Paul Elliott ?
Youds, Shirtliff, Costa....
Otherwise, I'll throw in Simon Webster
lower
Shirtliff was very good in the air. Rarely beaten. An ideal partner for the more gifted Colin Pates.
Youds had an awful debut v Forest (Van Hooijdonk & Cambpell) but we won. He lost practically every header in that game and resorted to constant fouling but got much better and once he'd settled in he turned out to be pretty strong. Did struggle with Quinn in the play-off final but hey ho.
Webster....very very good in the air. We beat Huddersfield 3-0 at Selhurst in our 2nd Div promotion season and he was at the back for them. I told the boys we should sign him and they told me to f*ck off...but to me he really looked the business in a poor team (Curbishley played that day....I wonder if he clocked him?) At 125k he must rate as one of our best ever signings.
Didn't see enough of Paul Elliott at Charlton...two or three games and then he was sold to Luton. Obviously know he was a class defender but can't comment on his heading prowess.
Didn't see Frank Haydock but will take your word on him.
Rufus was the best centre-half I've seen at Charlton. Very decent in the air but his main strength was his aggression, speed and tackling. Some of his last ditch recovery stuff was stunning. He was our version of Des Walker.
I think the cleanest header of a ball I saw (with a forward jumping in front of him) was Carl Tiler (he used his extra height in a way that Greg Halford should!). Definitely not the best defender by a long way and overall was a disappointing signing (Clough regretted signing him for Forest too) but he was excellent in the air. Unfortunately he was probably more suited to more direct stuff lower down the divisions!
Seeing as we're off the thread of Hudson leaving....who's the best centre back you've EVER seen play? (live not TV). Not talking about seeing Bobby Moore say, have an average game for Fulham and then go on reputation and folklore. Actually who you saw have the game of their lives or every time you saw them, they looked brilliant. Here's mine....
Colin Todd (Oxford United v Brentford..aged 37. Faultless)
Mark Wright...every time Derby played us. Had pretty much everything.
Kevin Beattie....Simonsen's first match v Boro. He was absolutely top class even though his legs were gone.
Paul Parker...played us on his own in a worse than shit Fulham side at Selhurst (the 2-0 win that practically guaranteed promotion)
Des Walker....we never got much out of him. In fact, nobody did...until he really was too old.
John Terry at Stamford Bridge....until he left Lisbie alone to score the winner in the last minute! He'd done everything right up until then and looked a nailed on England centre back even at such a young age.
PS: Anyone ever see John Charles? A lot of great judges have him down as the best header of a ball they've ever seen.
Back in the Premiership days I do remember playing Chelsea and pretty much every ball we put into their box some how always picking out Terry, and a similar kind of thing with Ferdinand at United and Carragher.
My all time favourite defender always has been, and I suspect always will be, Richard Rufus. I know he wasn't really the best around, but for us he was such a collosus at times. I remember an away game at Brum, probably in about 95 or 96, when they broke away from a Charlton attack and their striker got clear of the last man with about 40 yards to our goal. I forget his name but he was very quick, but not quicker than Rufus, who came from so far away he was only just in the periphary of my vision, in fact I didn't notice him at first, but he came steaming across at what seemed near supernatural speed and took the ball cleanly off the guys toes and cleared. The ground he made up on a quick player to save a lost cause was phenominal. I think we won 1-0 or drew 1-1. Either way he saved us points that day and that one episode marked him down a bit of hero, in my then young eyes, long before he really established himself as a club great with his playoff heroics and all the rest.
Not surprised really, thought £700k seemed a lot in our position in the first place.
The Sun today says the fee is £800K
The Times today says the fee is £1M
Do I hear £1.2M?
1.8Million pence!
Hudson would have been good in League One for us, but if this money means we get to keep one of Bailey/Shelvey/Racon I don't mind.
Well, this is what the Cardiff report actually says:
".....Charlton Athletic’s commanding central defender will have a full-day medical starting this morning and is expected to sign for the Bluebirds in a deal worth £1m this evening."
So I guees we draw our own conclusions. Or wait for details to be finalised.
Well, that's only as it stands today.
Obviously the club intend to use some of the Hudson fee to bring in other CB's.
They've even said so.
Link: http://www.cafc.co.uk/newsview.ink?nid=34372&newstype=p
....."Reflecting on last season, the Valley boss added: "Obviously we are short on cover at the back, and Mark Hudson is the only recognised centre-half we have got signed up.
"The one thing we want to avoid is the situation last year where we lacked cover at the back all season. Over the course of the season we are going to need a squad and Miguel is a good addition to that.