Wonder what would have happened with Scott Parker if message boards had been around when he was starting out? First couple of times I saw him, I thought there was no way he'd make it - far too lightweight. Then he went on loan to Norwich and toughened up. But it wasn't discussed and debated to the nth degree in public where he could read it for himself.
We live in the world we live in, and message boards etc are now part of the way we participate in football. Some of the comments re Jonjo could have a bit more common sense behind them, but the over reaction is nearly as bad!
I hope that it is obvious that there are only a couple of criticisms on this thread (god knows why).
Everybody else has come on to support Jonjo and voice our appreciation of his talents.
Can I ask, for all of our sakes, that those criticising him have a good think about what they are saying because it is making the rest of us despair. Plus, I would hate for Jonjo or any of his family and friends to come on here and think that that is what Charlton fans think of him.
He is a young teenager making his way in the game. Who will have frequent dips in form due to his age, but he is a great player in the making and we should all be proud he is currently playing for us.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]I hope that it is obvious that there are only a couple of criticisms on this thread (god knows why).
Everybody else has come on to support Jonjo and voice our appreciation of his talents.
Can I ask, for all of our sakes, that those criticising him have a good think about what they are saying because it is making the rest of us despair. Plus, I would hate for Jonjo or any of his family and friends to come on here and think that that is what Charlton fans think of him.
can understand what you are all saying and maybe Golfie's initial point has been misconstrued, or he has made it badly, but equally are we saying that we can't make any criticism of Jonjo ? On one hand we say put him in the side 'if he's good enough he's old enough' but the flip side to that is that srely he has to take any constructive criticism on the chin ? I'm not saying needless, pointless nickpicking all the time but surely if it's constructive and justified it's okay. Not saying Golfie's comments are such (justified), I wasn't there and never try and comment on events I have not seen, but generally is Jonjo not to be judged/criticised ? If not, where does it stop ? Enough people, me included, had criticism of Wagstaff after his perfomance at Hereford, justified in my opinion. Was that wrong too ?
FFS ban a guy because he talks shit ? Jon Jo maybe a special player , he may go on to be a Parker,Lee,Bowyer,Koch, Walsh,Elliot etc etc etc etc i hope he does and i hope its with us. He is not above being critiqued though.
I remember the crowd when Paul walsh got the ball and being chocked when Elliot left for next to nothing. Bowyer won games on his own at at higher level than we are playing now, he was 17. Parker shone out as a kid playing against people like Veira. Jon Jo could be like those---- could be.
no it was not Large a tad too early to crirticise a young boy (wagstaff) in my opinion
no I am not Large what i am trying to say is that he aint going to score every game he isnt going to be MOM every game but why does there have to be a Jon Jo thread after every game
In the players points thing that Smudge does, i put in it after the wycombe game "needs to calm down and realise he can not be the man every game, needs to focus on his position and stop coming to look for the ball all the time and wait for it to come to him, " fair and observational not critical nor the need to start a thread on it,
I think that he doesnt need analysing all the time nor does wagstaff, stavrou or mambo, solly we are in the 3rd division we need these kids to grow up with us and for us.
and that wont happen if people are going to be critical
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]no it was not Large a tad too early to crirticise a young boy (wagstaff) in my opinion
no I am not Large what i am trying to say is that he aint going to score every game he isnt going to be MOM every game but why does there have to be a Jon Jo thread after every game
In the players points thing that Smudge does, i put in it after the wycombe game "needs to calm down and realise he can not be the man every game, needs to focus on his position and stop coming to look for the ball all the time and wait for it to come to him, " fair and observational not critical nor the need to start a thread on it,
I think that he doesnt need analysing all the time nor does wagstaff, stavrou or mambo, solly we are in the 3rd division we need these kids to grow up with us and for us.
and that wont happen if people are going to be critical
Has there been a Jonjo thread after every game.............news to me?
I started one I admit.I had never ever posted 'anything whatsoever' about Jonjo previously and all I basicly said was how lucky he was not to have got sent off(as was also the opinion of Steve Brown...Paddy Powell, Theo Foley and Keith Peacock) and that he needed to take care.A very constructive and friendly post about a young lad who's a fantastic talent and whom I want to see out on the pitch and not sitting on the bench getting splinters in his arse as a result of a needless sending off. uncle then went off alarmy FFS and has polarised opinion on here to the point of stupidity.......absolutely ridiculous and completely uncalled for because it was nothing even remotely like the nasty stuff uncle had heard (or been told about) in a couple of isolated incidents on the terraces.
Golfies post (in classic Golfie style) was largely a wind up as a result of all that (he'd sniffed it all out a week or two back and was biding his time to get in there with this wind-up)...........quite plain to see.
He was more interested in winding us ALL up than actually saying much re Jonjo....maybe a bit of truth in there but more of a post to get some reaction.........he's been doing similar stuff for yonks, so no one should be that surprised should they!
There's been no overt criticism of Jonjo 'anywhere' on this board so I'm curious as to why some seem to think there has?
So where does friendly reasonable positive advice become scathing criticism.............well you tell me, cos I've no idea?
there has been a thread virtually every week about what he didnt do what he should do, The one over the tackle at Leyton Orient was a fair one but one that bought differing opinion
Last saturday in the Lib not one person who i spoke to who was there thought he should have been sent off, where as on here there was loads of support for the opinion that he could have.
there was a thread about his baldness a few weeks back, there has been comments about him being not very good, over rated.over hyped
all opinion but not one i would expect to hear from any Charlton fan.
Golfie got to me today as i am fed up with it and i dont want Jonjo to think that there are Charlton fans who do not appreciate the commitment he made to us and the club by signing
people need to stop and think that he is 17 the same for Wagstaff at only 19 and with the oportunity to show us what they can do free from pressure it is the 3rd division and they should be able to cut their cloth but they will fuk up they will make basic errors if they are still making them in 3 years time then the comments will be justified not now.
Golfie posted something most of us disagree with, and some who have been queuing up months to rip into Golfie have had their opportunity.
Move on.
What is noticeable is that the majority of our fans are looking to be defensive of our own players. Something that you could argue hasn't been there for a few years. i take that as a positive.
there has been a thread virtually every week about what he didnt do what he should do, The one over the tackle at Leyton Orient was a fair one but one that bought differing opinion
Last saturday in the Lib not one person who i spoke to who was there thought he should have been sent off, where as on here there was loads of support for the opinion that he could have.
there was a thread about his baldness a few weeks back, there has been comments about him being not very good, over rated.over hyped
all opinion but not one i would expect to hear from any Charlton fan.
Golfie got to me today as i am fed up with it and i dont want Jonjo to think that there are Charlton fans who do not appreciate the commitment he made to us and the club by signing
people need to stop and think that he is 17 the same for Wagstaff at only 19 and with the oportunity to show us what they can do free from pressure it is the 3rd division and they should be able to cut their cloth but they will fuk up they will make basic errors if they are still making them in 3 years time then the comments will be justified not now.
Yes a subtle difference...........I said 'could' have been sent off not 'should' have been sent off.........thanks for noticing that nla.
OK Bart. I for one welcome that as I've felt pretty rotten this last week or two to be honest as I quite unwittingly started a lot of this off.
Line drawn.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]total overreaction to a percieved insult 'he didnt clap us' and a blinkered assessment of his crosses used to back it up.
Golfie is entitled to crtique a players as are we all but as AFKA says to not put it in the context of a crushing away win is poor.
I disagree with Golfie more often than not but some of the persoanl abuse he has got has been OTT
I agree with all of that Henry, especially that some of the abuse and language used on this thread has been out of order.
That sort of thing has been creeping in a little on here recently and I for one would be sorry to CL go the way of some other forums where some poster's views lead them to be personally abused. Ultimately, unless we give other posters the respect they deserve for their point of view, regardless of how much we disagree with what they are saying, the forum becomes 'stale' for want of a better word, with many afraid to post something that might make them stand out from the crowd. Is that what we want?
I do wonder what Golfie gets out of following Charlton. The trip to and From Tranmere must have been long and exhausting and cost a few quid into the bargain. Yet, all he saw fit to comment on was Jonjo's apparent displeasure about being subbed.
Over the last few year's we've had plenty of players who've been happy to take astronomical amounts of money without putting in the work that Jonjo does, so the sign that a player who according to the stats regularly runs more miles per match than any other Charlton player is a tad peeved at being subbed is surely another sign that squad morale is improving. It was that long ago that the likes of Marcus Bent, JFH etc couldn't wait to get off the pitch and they and others seemed to make great use of the sick note excuse to avoid getting on it.
If Jonjo didn't want to get subbed then good, I take that as a sign of his desire to win, long may it continue.
I have been posting on here for a couple of years now & never have I been subjected to the levels of abuse that this one, small, post has created.
To answer my "abuswers" I will say just this,
1) I did not post and then run away and hide, or play with myself or whatever. I have spent today, a bank holiday, with my kids and waiting for a AA repair man to fix my car which had broken down. Maybe i''m just not that sad & lonely as some of you on here.
2) how many of you were there yesterday and actually SAW Shelvey's reaction ? I bet out of the 80 reply post only a handful of you were there.....
3) I was not trying to wind anyone up or have a go at a specific player. I was simply making an observation as to a young mans attitude. At the time I thought it a little bizare how 500-odd supporters could chant a players name who then did not acknowledge their support and admiration for him with even some gesture of appreciation.
4) Which player it was it immaterial. It could have been any of the 11 out there and i would have made the same post -I had no idea the love for Shelvey was so strong that any critique, however small, would be vilified.
5) the point re his crosses still stands and in a way had nothing to do with the first observation about his substitution.
6) after reading the 80 replies I had considered not posting on here ever again - but Charlton is in my blood and no matter what the circumstances I will have my say. You may disagree with me....fine, but I am not going to let someone whom I don't know & have never met stop me.I will leave that to the moderator. If he/she thinks I have over stepped the line then I accept my post being edited or banned, until then I will continue posting on here.
I think the point you miss Golfie...is that by all accounts we dominated the match, scored four goals in an away match for the first time in yonks...and all you wanted to comment on was a bit of supposed petulance from a 17 year old teenager who'd just played a major part in setting up that victory. Cut Jonjo some slack, he's fast maturing into one of the best teenaged footballers in the country, he plays to win and runs his butt off for the team. All things that I think are more noteworthy than whether he was pissed off at being subbed or not.
Glad Golfie responded. Surely it's ok to write negative posts? Most of the time Shelvey gets the superstar treatment. I agree with Goonerhater and think it's a bit soon to compare our new boy wonder with the likes of Parker and Bowyer. I really hope Jonjo stays with us and helps to get us promoted.
When I was a boy I used to take being subbed as me failing or me being insulted either way I never trotted off happy. And that was at a very low level. In my opinion JS yesterday showed what it meant to him to be taken off.
I wished we had seen a few players over the last few years show such disappointment
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I think the point you miss Golfie...is that by all accounts we dominated the match, scored four goals in an away match for the first time in yonks...and all you wanted to comment on was a bit of supposed petulance from a 17 year old teenager who'd just played a major part in setting up that victory. Cut Jonjo some slack, he's fast maturing into one of the best teenaged footballers in the country, he plays to win and runs his butt off for the team. All things that I think are more noteworthy than whether he was pissed off at being subbed or not.
Get your sense of perspective in order.
I think spot on black forest, as you say golfie u are entitled to your opinion and long may that continue. however i do think this is stating to get like a witch hunt for shelvey after everygame be it good or bad, it takes away from the rest of the performance and also from previous posts on his threads will be passed back to him and he doesnt need the negativity when is doing a fine job and is one of our main players at this momment
as for ppl saying u have no life etc. i dont think anyone put that did they? correct me if i am wrong as do sometimes skim-read rubbish comments
I think people on this list should adopt the usual attitude that is taken with young people who are trying their best to achieve - which Jonjo surely is. You praise their successes and remain discreetly schtum about their moments of failure. It's called encouragement as opposed to discouragement.
Comments
We live in the world we live in, and message boards etc are now part of the way we participate in football. Some of the comments re Jonjo could have a bit more common sense behind them, but the over reaction is nearly as bad!
Everybody else has come on to support Jonjo and voice our appreciation of his talents.
Can I ask, for all of our sakes, that those criticising him have a good think about what they are saying because it is making the rest of us despair. Plus, I would hate for Jonjo or any of his family and friends to come on here and think that that is what Charlton fans think of him.
Agreed, clueless first post.
can understand what you are all saying and maybe Golfie's initial point has been misconstrued, or he has made it badly, but equally are we saying that we can't make any criticism of Jonjo ? On one hand we say put him in the side 'if he's good enough he's old enough' but the flip side to that is that srely he has to take any constructive criticism on the chin ? I'm not saying needless, pointless nickpicking all the time but surely if it's constructive and justified it's okay. Not saying Golfie's comments are such (justified), I wasn't there and never try and comment on events I have not seen, but generally is Jonjo not to be judged/criticised ? If not, where does it stop ? Enough people, me included, had criticism of Wagstaff after his perfomance at Hereford, justified in my opinion. Was that wrong too ?
I remember the crowd when Paul walsh got the ball and being chocked when Elliot left for next to nothing. Bowyer won games on his own at at higher level than we are playing now, he was 17. Parker shone out as a kid playing against people like Veira. Jon Jo could be like those---- could be.
no I am not Large what i am trying to say is that he aint going to score every game he isnt going to be MOM every game but why does there have to be a Jon Jo thread after every game
In the players points thing that Smudge does, i put in it after the wycombe game "needs to calm down and realise he can not be the man every game, needs to focus on his position and stop coming to look for the ball all the time and wait for it to come to him, " fair and observational not critical nor the need to start a thread on it,
I think that he doesnt need analysing all the time nor does wagstaff, stavrou or mambo, solly we are in the 3rd division we need these kids to grow up with us and for us.
and that wont happen if people are going to be critical
Golfie is entitled to crtique a players as are we all but as AFKA says to not put it in the context of a crushing away win is poor.
I disagree with Golfie more often than not but some of the persoanl abuse he has got has been OTT
Has there been a Jonjo thread after every game.............news to me?
I started one I admit.I had never ever posted 'anything whatsoever' about Jonjo previously and all I basicly said was how lucky he was not to have got sent off(as was also the opinion of Steve Brown...Paddy Powell, Theo Foley and Keith Peacock) and that he needed to take care.A very constructive and friendly post about a young lad who's a fantastic talent and whom I want to see out on the pitch and not sitting on the bench getting splinters in his arse as a result of a needless sending off. uncle then went off alarmy FFS and has polarised opinion on here to the point of stupidity.......absolutely ridiculous and completely uncalled for because it was nothing even remotely like the nasty stuff uncle had heard (or been told about) in a couple of isolated incidents on the terraces.
Golfies post (in classic Golfie style) was largely a wind up as a result of all that (he'd sniffed it all out a week or two back and was biding his time to get in there with this wind-up)...........quite plain to see.
He was more interested in winding us ALL up than actually saying much re Jonjo....maybe a bit of truth in there but more of a post to get some reaction.........he's been doing similar stuff for yonks, so no one should be that surprised should they!
There's been no overt criticism of Jonjo 'anywhere' on this board so I'm curious as to why some seem to think there has?
So where does friendly reasonable positive advice become scathing criticism.............well you tell me, cos I've no idea?
there has been a thread virtually every week about what he didnt do what he should do, The one over the tackle at Leyton Orient was a fair one but one that bought differing opinion
Last saturday in the Lib not one person who i spoke to who was there thought he should have been sent off, where as on here there was loads of support for the opinion that he could have.
there was a thread about his baldness a few weeks back, there has been comments about him being not very good, over rated.over hyped
all opinion but not one i would expect to hear from any Charlton fan.
Golfie got to me today as i am fed up with it and i dont want Jonjo to think that there are Charlton fans who do not appreciate the commitment he made to us and the club by signing
people need to stop and think that he is 17 the same for Wagstaff at only 19 and with the oportunity to show us what they can do free from pressure it is the 3rd division and they should be able to cut their cloth but they will fuk up they will make basic errors if they are still making them in 3 years time then the comments will be justified not now.
Golfie posted something most of us disagree with, and some who have been queuing up months to rip into Golfie have had their opportunity.
Move on.
What is noticeable is that the majority of our fans are looking to be defensive of our own players. Something that you could argue hasn't been there for a few years. i take that as a positive.
Yes a subtle difference...........I said 'could' have been sent off not 'should' have been sent off.........thanks for noticing that nla.
Line drawn.
I agree with all of that Henry, especially that some of the abuse and language used on this thread has been out of order.
That sort of thing has been creeping in a little on here recently and I for one would be sorry to CL go the way of some other forums where some poster's views lead them to be personally abused. Ultimately, unless we give other posters the respect they deserve for their point of view, regardless of how much we disagree with what they are saying, the forum becomes 'stale' for want of a better word, with many afraid to post something that might make them stand out from the crowd. Is that what we want?
why would anyone give a rats arse about being abused on here ?
Over the last few year's we've had plenty of players who've been happy to take astronomical amounts of money without putting in the work that Jonjo does, so the sign that a player who according to the stats regularly runs more miles per match than any other Charlton player is a tad peeved at being subbed is surely another sign that squad morale is improving. It was that long ago that the likes of Marcus Bent, JFH etc couldn't wait to get off the pitch and they and others seemed to make great use of the sick note excuse to avoid getting on it.
If Jonjo didn't want to get subbed then good, I take that as a sign of his desire to win, long may it continue.
I have been posting on here for a couple of years now & never have I been subjected to the levels of abuse that this one, small, post has created.
To answer my "abuswers" I will say just this,
1) I did not post and then run away and hide, or play with myself or whatever. I have spent today, a bank holiday, with my kids and waiting for a AA repair man to fix my car which had broken down. Maybe i''m just not that sad & lonely as some of you on here.
2) how many of you were there yesterday and actually SAW Shelvey's reaction ? I bet out of the 80 reply post only a handful of you were there.....
3) I was not trying to wind anyone up or have a go at a specific player. I was simply making an observation as to a young mans attitude. At the time I thought it a little bizare how 500-odd supporters could chant a players name who then did not acknowledge their support and admiration for him with even some gesture of appreciation.
4) Which player it was it immaterial. It could have been any of the 11 out there and i would have made the same post -I had no idea the love for Shelvey was so strong that any critique, however small, would be vilified.
5) the point re his crosses still stands and in a way had nothing to do with the first observation about his substitution.
6) after reading the 80 replies I had considered not posting on here ever again - but Charlton is in my blood and no matter what the circumstances I will have my say. You may disagree with me....fine, but I am not going to let someone whom I don't know & have never met stop me.I will leave that to the moderator. If he/she thinks I have over stepped the line then I accept my post being edited or banned, until then I will continue posting on here.
Get your sense of perspective in order.
I wished we had seen a few players over the last few years show such disappointment
Go on, try and be positive!!
I think spot on black forest, as you say golfie u are entitled to your opinion and long may that continue. however i do think this is stating to get like a witch hunt for shelvey after everygame be it good or bad, it takes away from the rest of the performance and also from previous posts on his threads will be passed back to him and he doesnt need the negativity when is doing a fine job and is one of our main players at this momment
as for ppl saying u have no life etc. i dont think anyone put that did they? correct me if i am wrong as do sometimes skim-read rubbish comments