o what a surprise now no one remebers the 6,000 figure. no one remembers the ball shit about thousands will come and its only racists who are saying millions will come. At the time i remember thinking if the Uk (England 90%) is to take these people then surely we can ask the EU for money re the impact on schoools , NHS , housing etc--- but your Labour Party was to busy saying it wont happen.
So while the UK has 3 million people out of work and claiming dole money you see it as OK to still allow imigration ?Why is it when even a Labout MP says we should adopt some form of job protection for UK people do people see a temp halt in imigration as so far out ?and more to the point the only racial element in this debate has been included by your self " whire antipodeans and yanks" to quote .
Where do you see the money being raised at least 100 BILLION over the next 20 years then ?
[cite]Posted By: GoonerHater[/cite]We all know that cuts are coming to services (after next election) but where ? On TV the other day it stated that the cost of paying benefits is more than the whole income from income tax ! Not only this but of course we have to try to pay back a trillion pounds borrowed to save the banks. SO WHERE DO WE START ?
is it right that people with incomes over £50,000 receive child benefit ? (tax credits) ?
is it right to stop this payment even though these people have been paying income tax and NI at a higher rate ?
why should people get more money for having more kids ? get it for two ,dont get it after two
why should people get maternity leave regardless of how many kids they have?
should unemployment benefits be cut to make lower paid jobs more attractive ?
should all imigration be stopped untill un-employment reaches 100,000 ?
can we afford the welfare state anymore ?
What about substantially increasing inheritance tax in order to keep income tax down? I think we all agree we want everyone to work and contribute to society and be rewarded accordingly, rather than living/sponging off the state or rich parents!
Inheritance tax is fundamentally wrong.
Invariably people have worked and saved bloody hard for 40 plus years and have paid income tax and national insurance whilst working.
Why shouldn't they be able to hand their hard earned wealth to their loved ones?
They've contributed after all!
That is fine so long as the people who hold this view don't have the gall to complain about the state handing out benefits to those in need who have not had the good fortune to receive hand outs from their ancestors.
so all the people with any sense have less children, this means people with little sense continue to have loads, breeding lots more with no sense, end result increasing number of people with no sense...
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]would these "official stats" be the same as the ones where they said only 6,000 (yes six thousand) Poles would come into the UK ? and still insisted that it was the "far right racists" who where spreading bullshit about hundreds of thousands coming ? would this be the same "official statistic" that got dropped when the Polish Embassey said in a press release that they thought the figure would be over 500,000 ? would these be the same "official statistic" that have admitted there is NO COUNT of movement of EU people in or out of the UK ?
So although we have 3 million on the dole and the amount of dole paid out is higherthan income tax coming in,stopping (even for a limited time) imigration isnt right ? and isnt it strange how the mere suggestion gets the lefts blood pressure boiling? and although England is now the most densely populated country in Europe lets keep everyone coming after all the is f**k all wrong and everything is just rosey.
quote]
Surely even you know the difference between "statistics" and "forecasts"?
One comments on what has happened, the other a best guess on what might happen. Yep, the government misunderestimated the number of East Europeans who'd come to the UK, but that doesn't deny that immigrants haven't and don't make a net contribution to British GDP, which is a *fact*. It really is that basic...
Strange all these racists/anti-immigrants being Charlton fans...
Why aren't they calling for Deon Burton to be sent back to Jamaica? Or for Kelly Youga and Therry Racon to go back to France, or Jose Semedo to get a one-way air ticket to the Algrave? Miguel Llera should return to Spain as well. All these forriners coming over here and taking money and jobs away from English footballers, yet they turn up week-in/week-out and pay their money to watch and financially support them while slagging off someone who comes here from Warsaw to fix their plumbing or work their arses off on a building site. What's the difference?
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]
So although we have 3 million on the dole and the amount of dole paid out is higherthan income tax coming in,stopping (even for a limited time) imigration isnt right?
In the Daily Telegraph on July 15th, the Conservative Party predicted that the total cost of unemployment benefits (including Jobseekers' Allowance, Council Tax and Housing Benefit) would rise to £9.2bn in 2009/10 and £11.56bn in 2010/11.
In the Daily Mail on September 20th, the Conservative Party put the total income tax take (net of tax credits) for 2009/10 at £140.5bn.
Of course there are other benefits and other taxes, but even so . . .
If all the (legal) economic migrants EU or not packed their bags today and no more were let in surely:
- loss in tax revenue
- big employment gaps ie most of the minimum wage jobs would be empty and i cant see all of those indigenous people who choose to be on the dole queing up to work as labourors, clean toilets, work in coffee shops, sweep the streets etc.
- Tax revenue would not be received from above jobs yet wed still be paying benefits to those on the dole so would be economically worse
- Wave goodbye to high earning immigrant's taxes. No more Drogbas paying 50k a month to HMRC and the players salaries would come down as a whole as they wouldnt have to pay the silly money now to attract foreign players (maybe good for football but not for the economy)
- Worked in constrcution recruitment for 3 years and in all that time spoke to literally hundreds of native youngsters "looking" for work. Gave them all a go and out of all of them about ten in my three years every turned up or stuck at it for more than a week....some evening baltantly telling me they were better off on the dole and that they only applied for the jobs so they can claim they are actively seeking work.
My grandparents were polish immigrants and worked every day for 50 years often with 2 jobs and paid tax throughout. My best mate is son of jamaican and irish imigrants and is now an accountant and paying 50k a year in tax and my uncle is jamaican and worked for Lloyds (insurance) at director level so im sure he paid a fair whack in tax before he retired at 60.
Not a left wing liberal by any means but to blame immigrants and thinking that stopping legal economic migration whilst theres probably a large % of the indigenous 3 million unemployed who DONT want to work will sort out the economy is very wide of the mark.
[cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]Can't see a problem with the immigration if the people are working and spending the money here. I find it funny how certain types of immigration seem to wind up the extremists (generally poor, hard working people, doing jobs nobody wants) while nobody goes on about the large number of white antipodeans and yanks in really plum city jobs that a lot of Brits would cut their arms off for. Funny thing.
I think this is the problem. A huge number of immigrants, particularly those from africa, eastern europe, india, pakistan, sri lanka, and the far east don't spend the money here. They spend the bare minimum to live and the rest is sent home, resulting in a large amount of money that would have been spent in the UK if earnt by a UK citizen, leaving the country for good.
So whilst statistics may say the immigrants are net contributors, that may or may not take into account this money leaving the country. Also, would the figures still be the same if you exclude professional footballers? I imagine the foreign legion in the prem is paying well over £100million a year in income tax alone.
A huge number of immigrants, particularly those from africa, eastern europe, india, pakistan, sri lanka, and the far east don't spend the money here.
...........
Sure a lot of their disposable income is sent home, but they still work, pay tax, VAT on purchases, buy food, rent apartments etc and yet they still make a net contribution. But bear in mind that a lot of British companies have off-shored jobs as well. Next time you speak to a call centre the chances are that it's in Mumbai.
Why aren't the right-wingers up in arms about that? Is it because the business friendly right-wing press doesn't like to highlight outsourcing jobs and also how British companies exploit every loophole possible to pay less tax in the UK.
I think from this thread that most are in agreement that benefits need to be cut to encourage the feckless to work instead of living off the state and breeding another generation of çhav doing the same thing. If they weren't rewarded for extra kids then the propensity of the underclass to grow would be reduced and they would be more likely to get work to start supporting themselves and their families. A 10% cut in all benefits across the board would be a brave stance for any politician, but something has to give as the situation will get worse with more çhav kids following their parents paths, it is the only way to increase social mobility, not throwing extra benefits and support at them.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]I think from this thread that most are in agreement that benefits need to be cut to encourage the feckless to work instead of living off the state and breeding another generation of çhav doing the same thing. If they weren't rewarded for extra kids then the propensity of the underclass to grow would be reduced and they would be more likely to get work to start supporting themselves and their families. A 10% cut in all benefits across the board would be a brave stance for any politician, but something has to give as the situation will get worse with more çhav kids following their parents paths, it is the only way to increase social mobility, not throwing extra benefits and support at them.
Agree with that. Would pay benefit in non- exchangeable vouchers so they could only be spent on the bare essentials to survive (unless of course disabled or genuinely cant work for other reasons) and would also scrap all tax on earnings up to a higher minimum wage. What you would lose out in in tax revenue would be reclaimed by not having to pay benefits to those earning that.
Also think the state should pay no more for benefits for more children to those already on benefits, different if you have worked, lose your job and already have 3 kids, but why should those paying taxes subsidise those not who want more children?
Comments
So while the UK has 3 million people out of work and claiming dole money you see it as OK to still allow imigration ?Why is it when even a Labout MP says we should adopt some form of job protection for UK people do people see a temp halt in imigration as so far out ?and more to the point the only racial element in this debate has been included by your self " whire antipodeans and yanks" to quote .
Where do you see the money being raised at least 100 BILLION over the next 20 years then ?
That is fine so long as the people who hold this view don't have the gall to complain about the state handing out benefits to those in need who have not had the good fortune to receive hand outs from their ancestors.
The population rise of recent years I also believe is due to immigration? oh and people living longer..
someone look it up...
:P
Why aren't they calling for Deon Burton to be sent back to Jamaica? Or for Kelly Youga and Therry Racon to go back to France, or Jose Semedo to get a one-way air ticket to the Algrave? Miguel Llera should return to Spain as well. All these forriners coming over here and taking money and jobs away from English footballers, yet they turn up week-in/week-out and pay their money to watch and financially support them while slagging off someone who comes here from Warsaw to fix their plumbing or work their arses off on a building site. What's the difference?
In the Daily Telegraph on July 15th, the Conservative Party predicted that the total cost of unemployment benefits (including Jobseekers' Allowance, Council Tax and Housing Benefit) would rise to £9.2bn in 2009/10 and £11.56bn in 2010/11.
In the Daily Mail on September 20th, the Conservative Party put the total income tax take (net of tax credits) for 2009/10 at £140.5bn.
Of course there are other benefits and other taxes, but even so . . .
- loss in tax revenue
- big employment gaps ie most of the minimum wage jobs would be empty and i cant see all of those indigenous people who choose to be on the dole queing up to work as labourors, clean toilets, work in coffee shops, sweep the streets etc.
- Tax revenue would not be received from above jobs yet wed still be paying benefits to those on the dole so would be economically worse
- Wave goodbye to high earning immigrant's taxes. No more Drogbas paying 50k a month to HMRC and the players salaries would come down as a whole as they wouldnt have to pay the silly money now to attract foreign players (maybe good for football but not for the economy)
- Worked in constrcution recruitment for 3 years and in all that time spoke to literally hundreds of native youngsters "looking" for work. Gave them all a go and out of all of them about ten in my three years every turned up or stuck at it for more than a week....some evening baltantly telling me they were better off on the dole and that they only applied for the jobs so they can claim they are actively seeking work.
My grandparents were polish immigrants and worked every day for 50 years often with 2 jobs and paid tax throughout. My best mate is son of jamaican and irish imigrants and is now an accountant and paying 50k a year in tax and my uncle is jamaican and worked for Lloyds (insurance) at director level so im sure he paid a fair whack in tax before he retired at 60.
Not a left wing liberal by any means but to blame immigrants and thinking that stopping legal economic migration whilst theres probably a large % of the indigenous 3 million unemployed who DONT want to work will sort out the economy is very wide of the mark.
I think this is the problem. A huge number of immigrants, particularly those from africa, eastern europe, india, pakistan, sri lanka, and the far east don't spend the money here. They spend the bare minimum to live and the rest is sent home, resulting in a large amount of money that would have been spent in the UK if earnt by a UK citizen, leaving the country for good.
So whilst statistics may say the immigrants are net contributors, that may or may not take into account this money leaving the country. Also, would the figures still be the same if you exclude professional footballers? I imagine the foreign legion in the prem is paying well over £100million a year in income tax alone.
...........
Sure a lot of their disposable income is sent home, but they still work, pay tax, VAT on purchases, buy food, rent apartments etc and yet they still make a net contribution. But bear in mind that a lot of British companies have off-shored jobs as well. Next time you speak to a call centre the chances are that it's in Mumbai.
Why aren't the right-wingers up in arms about that? Is it because the business friendly right-wing press doesn't like to highlight outsourcing jobs and also how British companies exploit every loophole possible to pay less tax in the UK.
Agree with that. Would pay benefit in non- exchangeable vouchers so they could only be spent on the bare essentials to survive (unless of course disabled or genuinely cant work for other reasons) and would also scrap all tax on earnings up to a higher minimum wage. What you would lose out in in tax revenue would be reclaimed by not having to pay benefits to those earning that.