Interesting conversation this ... apparently because it happens all the time, there's nothing we can do about it.
If I'd taken that attitude in all the projects I've handled over the years, then I would never get another job. There's always something that can be done, it's just a matter of getting your head down, working with others, and finding an answer.
instinctive is farting after a good curry. Henry is a pro footballer of X amount of years it was "instinctive" for him to juggle the ball with his hand ? is he a goal keeper then ? not instinctive at all is was cheating and the same as a dive to win a pen. He should be banned because he has dragged the name of the game down another notch.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]instinctive is farting after a good curry. Henry is a pro footballer of X amount of years it was "instinctive" for him to juggle the ball with his hand ? is he a goal keeper then ? not instinctive at all is was cheating and the same as a dive to win a pen. He should be banned because he has dragged the name of the game down another notch.
So what do you call a cynical foul GH? A deliberate push in the box, a foul to stop someone from scoring, etc? How about pulling someone's shirt back who has got away from you? Are these all examples of cheating that should be seriously punished by multiple match bans, and ones that bring the game into disrepute?
this piece of cheating put his team into the World Cup finals----------------its about as big as you can get. The whole world has seen him "instictivly" play volleyball whilst "passing" the ball. Action is taken against managers calling the ref a cheat (bring the game into disrepute) but in a global game seen by millions, where the winners will benefit a billion (economy) no action is to be atken ? and you are defending that ?
1) Henry first handled the ball, maybe instinctively - and then again controlled the ball with his hand but in very deliberate manner.
2) Incredibly, the entire team of officials failed to observe the first offence.
3) Even more incredibly, the entire team of officials failed to observe the second offence.
4) A 4th official equipped with video monitor should be permitted to advise the referee of an incident, and especially in a dead ball situation - the referee permitted to act on that advice.
My points 1, 2 & 3 are all subject to the imperfections of human nature.
Si, you only seem to respond points brought up by other people that you have an answer to that suits your argument. Are you a politician? :-)
Regarding your post about it being Henry's living, and FIFA not doing whatever they like - it is also the living of all the unseeded teams, but legal ramifications didn't stop FIFA changing their own rules about that, did it?
there should be no replay, it was missed get over it, why should this game be any different to any other, henry is a cheating knut always has been but to be honest it was a shit freekick to give away and if you base it on the fact that keane and duff should have scored then it is just tuff titty.
this comes from a man with a paddy parent married to paddy
just tough shite get over it move on
they were laughing at us about maradona i aint stopped laughing about henry and i wouldnt give two fucks if it happend to england if we had missed the chances they had
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]I don't think you can call it cheating. See my previous post.
It's instinctive. Like when players handle on the line to prevent a goal - it's intentional, but instinctive. Not premeditated.
The answer is to make sure these 'OFFENCES' are spotted on the pitch.
Handling on the line to prevent a goal is a red card, though, isn't it? ie. professional foul.
I have difficulty buying this "instinctive" thing. That's maybe true with the first touch, but if the second touch was instinctive, then so were most of Henry's goals, and he doesn't deserve credit for any of them. It's nothing to do with his talents that he's a great footballer, he's just instinctive.
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]So you are saying that the punishment should change depending on the magnitude of the game and the player? No, I don't agree with that.
If they change the rules for this alone, then it makes more of a mockery out of the game than if they do do something.
I think it definitely should depend on the consequence of the foul when it was missed. A dive in the last minute of the World Cup final is worse than a dive in the first minute of the first match of the third division of the Stockholm over 70s five-a-side league, isn't it?
As for my justification, I'll go back to my earlier post on the first page about Ronaldo demanding that he be booked.
I disagree with the push for video refs. I much prefer massive arbitrary punishments for cheats who get away with it.
[cite]Posted By: IA
I think it definitely should depend on the consequence of the foul when it was missed. A dive in the last minute of the World Cup finalisworse than a dive in the first minute of the first match of the third division of the Stockholm over 70s five-a-side league, isn't it?
Sorry but I disagree with this, the laws of the game should be irrespective of the level at which the game is played - otherwise the whole thing becomes a farce. Who decides on the magnitude of the consequence?
Until technology is introduced, especially at FIFA level these type of events will continue...... Henry's reputation has been destroyed by this, and shows no signs of dying down....... For years the fourth official could /intervene to assist the referee, and the managers and captain should have three appeal attempts per match, as to cut out mindless time wasting.
Bit like tennis to stop the constant, bitching, complaining/ cheating..... and the ball went over the line etc etc.......
Hopefully it would cut down the endless harrassment of the referee , by allowing the captain to represent the views of the players /fair play.
Football is an 'inexact science' but FIFA do have a responsibility to ensure the game is played in a fair as possible situation, especially when evidence comes to light afterwards, as is the case with violent conduct..... for all children watching this it set's a terrible example, and the 'he got away with it' is not sustainable as others have posted, a mistake is one thing,' knowing you made a mistake is a cheat'
The hand of god incident and this 'event' along with others make the game a nonsense at times, but it is part of the game, always has been, in the end it is about honesty.
So henry is a cheat, wont go to heaven...... and needs to be banned from football, and should have all his money given to me....... that will put him right off his 'crystal' at least this weekend.......
world cup games have been replayed when refs cock up.
FIFA confirmed today that the result of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany qualifying match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on 3 September 2005 has been declared invalid and must be replayed. In order to respect the drawn order of the matches, the first leg is to be replayed in Uzbekistan on 8 October 2005, with the second leg match to be rescheduled for 12 October 2005 in Bahrain.
The decision was taken by the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany Organising Committee following a formal protest from the Uzbekistan Football Federation concerning a technical error by the referee of the match.
According to Art. 12.4 (b) and 14.1 of the Regulations for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, all protests, including those against technical errors committed by referees, are to be decided by the Organising Committee for the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany. A bureau of the Organising Committee may pass a decision in lieu of the plenary committee in urgent matters.
The Bureau, composed of Chairman Lennart Johansson, Deputy Chairman Julio Grondona, Dr Chung Mong Joon and FIFA General Secretary Urs Linsi, took the decision based on the following facts: 1) At the score of 1-0 in favour of Uzbekistan, in the 39th minute of the match, the referee decided to award a penalty kick to Uzbekistan; 2) The penalty kick was taken and led to goal in favour of Uzbekistan; 3) Before the penalty kick was carried out, an Uzbek player entered the penalty area; 4) Consequently, the referee awarded an indirect free kick to the Bahrain team; 5) However, in such a situation, the Laws of the Game require the referee to order the penalty kick to be retaken; 6) The captain of Uzbekistan team protested to the referee immediately after the mistake had taken place and before the game had restarted. This protest was confirmed after the match; 7) This technical error was confirmed by the match commissioner and the referee inspector in their respective reports; 8) Uzbekistan protested the decision of the referee in a written request, asking for the match to be "cancelled" and be evaluated with a 3-0 forfeit result;
The bureau, taking into consideration that the referee in the match in question had indeed committed a technical error, established that, as a consequence, the match needed to be replayed. As a result, the protest put forward by the Uzbekistan team for the match to be considered a forfeit with a 30 result is rejected. In accordance with Art. 12.6 of the Regulations 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany, this decision is final and binding.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]Si, you only seem to respond points brought up by other people that you have an answer to that suits your argument. Are you a politician? :-)
Regarding your post about it being Henry's living, and FIFA not doing whatever they like - it is also the living of all the unseeded teams, but legal ramifications didn't stop FIFA changing their own rules about that, did it?
Haha, I see why you might say that. Sometimes the easiest way to get a point across is to pick up on the glaring flaws in someones point/argument. Dealing with the more subtle ones would take more time and be less effective - so everyone loses out But inkeeping with my thoughts on this whole thing - I have yet to read anything that has made me reconsider my position. Any specific point you think I ignored I will be more than happy to criticise
I'm not sure I follow your analogy regarding FIFA's unseeded teams rule-change. FIFA can do what they want regarding specific competitions; how they are competed/qualified for, and which teams they consist of. They could chuck France (or anyone else) out the World Cup if they wanted, because it's their competition.
But, they can't just ban an individual player from practising his profession for one of these teams, unless they have some legal grounds upon which to do so. At the moment, 'cheating' is certainly not one of these grounds (I'm not sure there even are any grounds). The individual has legal rights to work that supercede FIFA authority; unseeded teams have no legal recourse regarding competing in FIFA run competitions.
[cite]Posted By: WelshAddick[/cite]world cup games have been replayed when refs cock up.
FIFA confirmed today that the result of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany qualifying match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on 3 September 2005 has been declared invalid and must be replayed. In order to respect the drawn order of the matches, the first leg is to be replayed in Uzbekistan on 8 October 2005, with the second leg match to be rescheduled for 12 October 2005 in Bahrain.
The decision was taken by the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany Organising Committee following a formal protest from the Uzbekistan Football Federation concerning a technical error by the referee of the match.
According to Art. 12.4 (b) and 14.1 of the Regulations for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, all protests, including those against technical errors committed by referees, are to be decided by the Organising Committee for the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany. A bureau of the Organising Committee may pass a decision in lieu of the plenary committee in urgent matters.
The Bureau, composed of Chairman Lennart Johansson, Deputy Chairman Julio Grondona, Dr Chung Mong Joon and FIFA General Secretary Urs Linsi, took the decision based on the following facts:
1) At the score of 1-0 in favour of Uzbekistan, in the 39th minute of the match, the referee decided to award a penalty kick to Uzbekistan;
2) The penalty kick was taken and led to goal in favour of Uzbekistan;
3) Before the penalty kick was carried out, an Uzbek player entered the penalty area;
4) Consequently, the referee awarded an indirect free kick to the Bahrain team;
5) However, in such a situation, the Laws of the Game require the referee to order the penalty kick to be retaken;
6) The captain of Uzbekistan team protested to the referee immediately after the mistake had taken place and before the game had restarted. This protest was confirmed after the match;
7) This technical error was confirmed by the match commissioner and the referee inspector in their respective reports;
8) Uzbekistan protested the decision of the referee in a written request, asking for the match to be "cancelled" and be evaluated with a 3-0 forfeit result;
The bureau, taking into consideration that the referee in the match in question had indeed committed a technical error, established that, as a consequence, the match needed to be replayed. As a result, the protest put forward by the Uzbekistan team for the match to be considered a forfeit with a 30 result is rejected. In accordance with Art. 12.6 of the Regulations 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany, this decision is final and binding.
But he didn't cock up and it wasn't a technical error. He just missed it.
Technology wouldn't have helped as it will only be introduced for balls crossing the goal line. Everything is subjective - including handball.
Comments
Or a bad smell.
It's instinctive. Like when players handle on the line to prevent a goal - it's intentional, but instinctive. Not premeditated.
The answer is to make sure these 'OFFENCES' are spotted on the pitch.
If I'd taken that attitude in all the projects I've handled over the years, then I would never get another job. There's always something that can be done, it's just a matter of getting your head down, working with others, and finding an answer.
So what do you call a cynical foul GH? A deliberate push in the box, a foul to stop someone from scoring, etc? How about pulling someone's shirt back who has got away from you? Are these all examples of cheating that should be seriously punished by multiple match bans, and ones that bring the game into disrepute?
If they change the rules for this alone, then it makes more of a mockery out of the game than if they do do something.
Facts:
1) Henry first handled the ball, maybe instinctively - and then again controlled the ball with his hand but in very deliberate manner.
2) Incredibly, the entire team of officials failed to observe the first offence.
3) Even more incredibly, the entire team of officials failed to observe the second offence.
4) A 4th official equipped with video monitor should be permitted to advise the referee of an incident, and especially in a dead ball situation - the referee permitted to act on that advice.
My points 1, 2 & 3 are all subject to the imperfections of human nature.
My point 4 surely is commonsense?
Regarding your post about it being Henry's living, and FIFA not doing whatever they like - it is also the living of all the unseeded teams, but legal ramifications didn't stop FIFA changing their own rules about that, did it?
this comes from a man with a paddy parent married to paddy
just tough shite get over it move on
they were laughing at us about maradona i aint stopped laughing about henry and i wouldnt give two fucks if it happend to england if we had missed the chances they had
Handling on the line to prevent a goal is a red card, though, isn't it? ie. professional foul.
I have difficulty buying this "instinctive" thing. That's maybe true with the first touch, but if the second touch was instinctive, then so were most of Henry's goals, and he doesn't deserve credit for any of them. It's nothing to do with his talents that he's a great footballer, he's just instinctive.
I think it definitely should depend on the consequence of the foul when it was missed. A dive in the last minute of the World Cup final is worse than a dive in the first minute of the first match of the third division of the Stockholm over 70s five-a-side league, isn't it?
As for my justification, I'll go back to my earlier post on the first page about Ronaldo demanding that he be booked.
I disagree with the push for video refs. I much prefer massive arbitrary punishments for cheats who get away with it.
Sorry but I disagree with this, the laws of the game should be irrespective of the level at which the game is played - otherwise the whole thing becomes a farce. Who decides on the magnitude of the consequence?
Henry's reputation has been destroyed by this, and shows no signs of dying down.......
For years the fourth official could /intervene to assist the referee, and the managers and captain should have three appeal attempts per match, as to cut out mindless time wasting.
Bit like tennis to stop the constant, bitching, complaining/ cheating..... and the ball went over the line etc etc.......
Hopefully it would cut down the endless harrassment of the referee , by allowing the captain to represent the views of the players /fair play.
Football is an 'inexact science' but FIFA do have a responsibility to ensure the game is played in a fair as possible situation, especially when evidence comes to light afterwards, as is the case with violent conduct..... for all children watching this it set's a terrible example, and the 'he got away with it' is not sustainable as others have posted, a mistake is one thing,' knowing you made a mistake is a cheat'
The hand of god incident and this 'event' along with others make the game a nonsense at times, but it is part of the game, always has been, in the end it is about honesty.
So henry is a cheat, wont go to heaven...... and needs to be banned from football, and should have all his money given to me....... that will put him right off his 'crystal' at least this weekend.......
I believe we all celebrated that day.
FIFA confirmed today that the result of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany qualifying match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on 3 September 2005 has been declared invalid and must be replayed. In order to respect the drawn order of the matches, the first leg is to be replayed in Uzbekistan on 8 October 2005, with the second leg match to be rescheduled for 12 October 2005 in Bahrain.
The decision was taken by the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany Organising Committee following a formal protest from the Uzbekistan Football Federation concerning a technical error by the referee of the match.
According to Art. 12.4 (b) and 14.1 of the Regulations for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, all protests, including those against technical errors committed by referees, are to be decided by the Organising Committee for the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany. A bureau of the Organising Committee may pass a decision in lieu of the plenary committee in urgent matters.
The Bureau, composed of Chairman Lennart Johansson, Deputy Chairman Julio Grondona, Dr Chung Mong Joon and FIFA General Secretary Urs Linsi, took the decision based on the following facts:
1) At the score of 1-0 in favour of Uzbekistan, in the 39th minute of the match, the referee decided to award a penalty kick to Uzbekistan;
2) The penalty kick was taken and led to goal in favour of Uzbekistan;
3) Before the penalty kick was carried out, an Uzbek player entered the penalty area;
4) Consequently, the referee awarded an indirect free kick to the Bahrain team;
5) However, in such a situation, the Laws of the Game require the referee to order the penalty kick to be retaken;
6) The captain of Uzbekistan team protested to the referee immediately after the mistake had taken place and before the game had restarted. This protest was confirmed after the match;
7) This technical error was confirmed by the match commissioner and the referee inspector in their respective reports;
8) Uzbekistan protested the decision of the referee in a written request, asking for the match to be "cancelled" and be evaluated with a 3-0 forfeit result;
The bureau, taking into consideration that the referee in the match in question had indeed committed a technical error, established that, as a consequence, the match needed to be replayed. As a result, the protest put forward by the Uzbekistan team for the match to be considered a forfeit with a 30 result is rejected. In accordance with Art. 12.6 of the Regulations 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany, this decision is final and binding.
Haha, I see why you might say that. Sometimes the easiest way to get a point across is to pick up on the glaring flaws in someones point/argument. Dealing with the more subtle ones would take more time and be less effective - so everyone loses out
I'm not sure I follow your analogy regarding FIFA's unseeded teams rule-change. FIFA can do what they want regarding specific competitions; how they are competed/qualified for, and which teams they consist of. They could chuck France (or anyone else) out the World Cup if they wanted, because it's their competition.
But, they can't just ban an individual player from practising his profession for one of these teams, unless they have some legal grounds upon which to do so. At the moment, 'cheating' is certainly not one of these grounds (I'm not sure there even are any grounds). The individual has legal rights to work that supercede FIFA authority; unseeded teams have no legal recourse regarding competing in FIFA run competitions.
But he didn't cock up and it wasn't a technical error. He just missed it.
Technology wouldn't have helped as it will only be introduced for balls crossing the goal line. Everything is subjective - including handball.